Velvet Jesus (2021) Movie Script
1
(gentle music)
(glass shattering)
(gentle eerie music)
(gentle melancholy music)
(gentle jazz music)
(gentle jazz music continues)
(gentle jazz music continues)
(gentle jazz music continues)
(gentle jazz music continues)
(bright tinkling music)
(soft music)
(Vernon grunting)
- Ah, who, who's there?
(Vernon grunting)
Who's there?
- [Gerald] Gerald Thomas,
"Watts Chronicle."
(Vernon grunting)
- I'm coming.
I'm coming.
Okay.
(Vernon sighs)
Boy.
(Gerald knocking)
I'm coming, I'm coming!
All right, all right, I,
I'm coming, I'm, I'm coming.
On the phone, you said
you'd be here around, uh,
6:00, uh, 7:00, but it's only
6:15.
- [Gerald] I apologize.
I thought traffic would
be a little heavier
this time of day.
Figured I could drive
around for 45 minutes
or take a chance and be early.
(chuckles)
I'm not, I mean, I can come
back later if I'm interrupting.
- No, no, nah.
It's better early than
later, I always say.
Uh, I was just reading.
- [Gerald] You said you
were, you were reading?
- Yeah, yeah, I was, uh,
reading the, um, the, uh,
I was reading the sports section
and,
and the Bible. (chuckles)
- [Gerald] Interesting
combination.
- Well, you know, I read the
Word some every day and, uh,
well, wasn't much in the
"Chronicle,"
uh, no offense.
- [Gerald] None taken.
(door creaking)
- You know, you, you, you look
familiar.
Have we, have we met?
- I don't think so. Who
do you think I look like?
- I, I don't know.
I, mm, oh, ah, hey, ah, I'm
just an old man with old eyes.
Come on in, come on in.
And, and, and, and don't
trip over none of that crap.
Try to sue me. (laughs)
- All right, Vernon,
you're not expecting anyone
else, are you?
Wanna make sure we have enough
time for your interview.
- Ah, no. (laughing)
Shit, ain't nobody come
around here no more.
(Vernon sighs)
This house used to be full of
folk.
Uh, neighbors dropping by,
grandkids running around,
even a, even a girlfriend
or two used to come through,
but no more, just old
Vernon's memories. (laughing)
(Vernon sighs)
What, what, what, what'd
you say your name was again?
- Gerald. Gerald Thomas.
Is there, uh, some place
I can sit down, Vernon?
- Oh, excuse me. And where my
manners at?
I, uh, whoa. Uh.
Oh, you know what?
Let me get this here.
Uh.
There you go.
Mm. (Vernon grunts)
And there you go.
Now here, you just park it right
here,
and I'll get right here on the
couch.
- Thanks again, too, for doing
this.
(Bernie laughing)
It shouldn't take long.
- [Vernon] Okay.
- Hope you don't mind,
I, I like to tape record the
interview.
Helps me to write the article
later.
- Ah, ain't nobody ever did
a newspaper story about
me before. (laughing)
I was, uh, well, when did
you say it was gonna be
in the paper because, uh,
I think I'm gonna buy me
a whole bunch of copies just to
send it
to my kinfolks back home.
(chuckles)
Yeah, they get a real kick outta
that.
Old Vernon Chambers, celebrity.
(laughing)
- Uh, the article should
be in next Sunday's paper,
the, uh, in the Lifestyle
section.
- Ah.
So on the phone you say you
writing about Black vets.
- Yeah, that's right.
- Oh, well, uh, I mean, how'd
you find me?
LA must have 50,000 Negros
that served in Korea.
I mean, what made you
decide to write about me?
- Actually, I have a friend
that works at the VA.
He let me look through some,
some records,
and I just picked your name out
at random.
- Ah. (laughing)
Ain't that about nothing.
- So let's get started.
- Pft, all right. Shoot.
I'm ready to become a star.
(laughing)
- Um, let's start with your
early life. Where were you born?
- Um, (clears throat) Grayton,
Alabama,
little town in the sticks
about 40 miles north of Mobile.
- Brothers and sisters?
- [Vernon] Uh, I had, uh, six.
- So there were seven kids
including you?
- No, counting me, there was 13.
We had six boys and six
girls. I was the youngest.
But see, all the boys died
before I was out of short pants.
Um, Jesse and Marvis
got killed in France during
World War II
and Jerome got burned up on
an oil rig in a fire in 1947.
And Terrell, (laughing)
he got shot by pimp in New
Orleans.
Then Roy and Clayton, well,
they got lynched by the Klan.
- So no brothers, just your
sister and your parents?
- Yeah. My sisters and my mama.
You know, my father, he
left at my eighth birthday
and I ain't seen a hide or
hair of them since, you know?
Yep. So it was just me and the
women folk.
- What was that like, growing
up without any men around?
- Well, you could say I missed
having, uh,
a man around to, uh, teach
me how to be a man, you know?
Or you could say I missed having
a man around to screw me up
and got a chance to grow
and to be my own man.
You know what I mean?
- Yeah.
Um, what about your time in the
service?
- Um, well,
I got drafted in '54
and uh, I did bootcamp at
Benning
and I shipped out three months
after.
- And you were stationed?
- In Manila and then Seoul.
Hey, you want drink?
- Sure.
- Uh, JD on the rocks?
- Sure. That'd be great.
(Vernon laughing)
- It's my favorite.
Ah.
Yes, sir.
Oh, okay.
Uh.
(Vernon laughing)
Uh, you know, you gotta excuse
the place.
I gave the maid the day off.
(laughing)
- I can tell.
- Ah.
You know, because of you,
I broke out the good stuff.
(laughing)
Ah.
Ah.
(ice clinks)
Oh.
Forgot the stuff, huh?
(laughing)
Woo!
Ah.
Ah.
Okay.
Yeah.
How's that? That's good?
- That's great.
- All right.
(Vernon laughing)
Woo!
Yes. To super stardom.
(laughing)
- Cheers.
(soft jazz music)
Anything unusual happen in Seoul
or Korea?
- Ah. Well.
I caught the clap from
a $5 hoe. (laughing)
- Anything a little more
exciting?
Maybe combat with the enemy?
- Well, uh,
between who?
The, the gooks or the crackers?
- Either.
- Well, the gooks never did
anything to me, you know?
- What about the crackers?
- Uh, uh, you need some more
ice?
- No, this is, this is fine.
- You mind, you mind if I get
some
because, uh, I like
my women hot and my
liquor cold. (laughing)
Ah. (sighing)
Ah.
Ah.
- So you were, you were
saying about the crackers.
- Mm.
Let's just say I got out
of the war in one piece,
but the problem was I couldn't
go back home. (chuckles)
- You couldn't go back home
again?
(Vernon laughing)
- You know, I should put that
shit
on a bumper sticker. (laughing)
So you moved here to LA
and what the early 60s?
- '64.
Then I met a sweet young girl
from Tulsa
named Gwendolyn Miller.
(chuckles)
Yes, indeed.
I had two boys by her,
but we split after three years.
- Why'd you split?
- She caught me with another
woman.
Hey, y-you ain't gonna put
that in the paper, are ya?
- Well, not if you don't want me
to.
- Ah, it don't matter.
It's a new day, ain't it?
(chuckles)
People don't care about that
kind of thing no more, do they?
Not like it was when I
was coming up. (chuckles)
Yeah, getting divorce
was a big deal back then.
- Yeah, I guess you're right.
Anything else interesting
happen in the service?
(Vernon sighing)
- Nah, not really.
Well I beat up a guy once.
- White guy?
- Black.
- What happened?
- He disrespected me.
- How so?
- Hey, how, how's that drink?
- It's fine.
You were telling me about the
fight.
- Oh, well, uh,
oh, you know, you,
you, you, you, you still
wanna know about that?
To tell, the fact is I don't
even know what got between us.
I, maybe it was probably
something stupid.
Maybe it was a woman of a pair
of socks.
- Did you get in trouble for it?
- The what, what? The fight?
No.
Really, I don't remember.
Korea was a long time ago, son.
- All right.
Let's, um, let's go back to your
family.
- [Vernon] Uh, well, uh,
I-I really don't talk
about my folks much either.
- What about the family
you made here in LA?
- Okay.
Well, I already told you about
Gwendolyn.
- Was she your only wife?
- No, I had another one besides
Gwen.
Uh, her name was Sylvia.
- What was she like?
- Ah.
She was tall, stacked.
(laughing)
Green eyes.
Woo! Spoke real proper, real
classy.
But you know what?
I got some pictures.
- Let me see if I...
See, where is it?
Ah.
Let's see.
Hold on. I know they right...
Ah, shoot.
Okay.
Let's see.
Oh.
Boy.
Oh. Shoot.
Ah, here they go. (laughing)
Woo!
Ah.
This was Gwen
and this is Sylvia.
I know you can't tell just
from looking at me now,
but I used to be quite the young
buck
back in the day! (laughing)
Woo-wee! (laughing)
Foxes like those two used to
fall all over me. (laughing)
Woo,
baby!
Mm.
Ah. (chuckles)
- Did she have any kids?
- Ah, Sylvia?
Yeah, she had two boys
by her first husband
and a little girl from her
second.
- What did this Sylvia
Martin do for a living?
- Sylv, well, she was...
Wait a minute.
How'd you know her last name was
Martin?
- You told me.
- No, I didn't. I-I
never said a full name.
- It must have been in
your file then at the,
at the VA office.
- Uh-uh.
Once they discharge you,
they don't mess with your
records no more.
And I got discharged in '55.
I married Sylvia in '64.
So,
how'd you know?
- Well. (chuckles)
- Wait a minute.
I knew you looked...
Carl. Is that...
Recognized you!
- Sit down!
Shut up!
(tense music)
- What the f... (panting)
Oh God. What the hell are you
doing?
Are you fucking crazy?
What the hell is-
- Shut up!
- Boy.
Boy, get this shit off me.
- Be still!
- Gonna knock your ass out.
God damn it!
What the fuck you doing!?
- You ain't gonna do nothing.
- Take this shit off me!
(panting)
Fuck.
God. (panting)
Hey, what is, what is this?
What, what are you doing?!
- Sh!
Be quiet!
- Why are you here, man?
What do you want with me?
- I wanted to see you one last
time.
Get your side of the story.
Hear what you have to
say about those days.
- Hear what I had to say about
what days?
What days?!
- The days when you lived with
us.
I wanna hear what you have
to say about those days.
Hear what you have to
say about those times.
- Boy, you smoking.
I don't know what the
fuck you talking about!
Take this shit off me and get
out
of my mother fucking house!
- Whoa.
Whoa, Vernon, you've been so
hospitable up until this point.
- Okay, boy.
All right.
So far nothing bad has happened.
Now why don't you just
leave before something does?
- No!
That's where you wrong, Vernon.
A lot of bad things have
happened
and I want you to talk
about those things, Vernon.
It's a whole lot that I don't
understand.
It's still a whole lot that I
don't know.
I need you to talk about
those things, Vernon.
- What damn things, boy?!
(Carl laughing)
- Oh, you don't know
what I'm talking about?
Huh?!
You want me to think that you,
you just some feeble old
man without no memory.
Like you can't remember anything
past
last week's bingo game
at the old folks home.
Is that what you want me to
believe?
- Boy, if you don't let me
loose,
I'm gonna start yelling.
- [Carl] Go ahead and yell.
- I'm gonna start yelling and
somebody's going to hear me
and call the cops.
- Go ahead and yell!
- And the cops are going to
bust in here and bust you, fool!
- They gonna bust in here
and find me holding a gun
on an old man that I tied up.
- That's right!
- That's right. Maybe that's
right.
Maybe that's what they
going to find, Vernon.
Or maybe they gonna find you
with a bullet in your head.
(chuckles)
And me gone.
This Watts, Vernon.
Don't nobody care if you yell.
And even if they did call the
cops,
it's gonna take 'em 40
minutes to get here.
How far do you think I
can get in 40 minutes?
(Vernon screaming)
(Carl screaming)
- Help!
- Help! Oh, take it.
Oh, you like that?
Oh, you like that?
(Carl screaming)
- Help! Help!
- Oh, oh, take it.
Take it. Oh, you like that,
Daddy?
Oh yeah, you like that?
Oh yeah, you like it.
Oh, you like it.
(Vernon panting)
(Carl laughing)
(Vernon screaming and panting)
- Oh, you ain't gonna shoot
nobody!
- Keep yelling, keep yelling and
find out.
- All right.
All right!
All right. Just calm down, all
right?
Just, and put that damn gun
down!
I'll tell you what you
wanna know. Untie me!
But you gotta let me
loose first. All right?
- How about, how about, how
about,
how about you earn my trust?
- All right. All right. All
right.
What do you, what you wanna
know?
What do wanna know?
- Wanna know about that night.
- What night?
- Christmas night! 1967, man!
- I...
I can't remember that far back.
- You don't remember?
Come on, Vern, you're supposed
to be building trust with me.
This is a relationship that
we're supposed to be building
and relationships are built on
trust!
I do something for you and
you do something for me.
You tell me the truth
about what I want to know
and I untie you and walk away
from here.
(Vernon panting)
- How I even know that
damn thing is loaded?
(soft piano music)
- Do you know they make you wait
10 days
before you can bring home
the gun that you bought?
Did you know that?
They don't make you wait
for the bullets though.
I bought two boxes.
.36 caliber.
Why I got so many?
Most I'ma I need is one.
(gun clicks)
(Vernon grunting and panting)
Now,
I did something to earn your
trust.
- What?!
- I showed you that the gun was
loaded.
So now you do something to earn
my trust.
- What do you want?!
- I want to know about
Christmas night, 1967.
- I...
- Come on.
Come on, Vernon.
It was only what?
19 years ago.
You lived with us in that little
house
over on St. Matthews.
Mom worked the graveyard
shift at the diner
and they always threw
this big Christmas party
for the employees and the
families.
(people chattering)
(soft piano music)
- Ho, ho, ho.
So what can Santa bring you for
Christmas?
- A velvet Jesus.
- A what? What?
- A velvet Jesus Paint
by Numbers art project.
It's a picture of Jesus on
a piece of black velvet.
- With a cheap cardboard
backing.
It came with 10 little jars of
different colored oil paints.
Skinny Santa couldn't understand
why an eight year old would
wanna make a painting of Jesus.
- How about a nice toy dump
truck or a baseball mitt?
Doesn't that sound better than
a...
I mean, a...
- A velvet Jesus.
But that's what I want.
- Okay.
Ho, ho, ho.
(girl giggling)
(soft music)
- So what you gonna get for
Christmas?
I want a slingshot.
- I want a new Rock'em Sock'em
Robot kit.
- What about you, fairy boy?
Gonna get a new doll?
- No! I want a velvet Jesus.
(kids laughing)
- Leave him alone!
He's special. He's an artist.
- Well, our dad's says he's
soft.
- Well, Vernon's a joke, so who
cares?
- Stop it! Stop it! Stop it now!
You boys know better than this.
I'm gonna call your father
Vernon.
Now what is going on?
- Nothing. We were just playing.
- Carl, is that what happened?
- [Carl] Yes, ma'am.
- Okay, let's get cleaned
up so we can go see Santa
and then go to the Christmas
party, okay?
- Psh, you ain't our mama.
- You boys okay?
- Were fine.
(soft music continues)
Come on.
- Listen, will you please tell
me
what this little story got to do
with me being tied up
in my own damn house?!
- Actually, this part,
this part don't have much
to do with you at all.
It's the next part.
The next part, that's
where you come in, Vern.
- Well, could you get the remote
and fast forward us to that
part, please?
- No, Vern. Hold on!
You see, these Santas,
these rent-a-Santas,
they had this little trick
that they used to do.
When, when the kid tell
them what gift they wanted,
the Santa would repeat it in a
loud voice
with a big "ho, ho, ho", loud
enough
so the parents could
hear what the kid wanted.
So come Christmas morning,
it'd be a Chatty Cathy doll
or a Hot Wheels set.
- Or a velvet Jesus.
- Or a velvet Jesus under the
tree.
(Vernon laughing)
- Well, you got your
little Paint by Numbers kit
and you and Jesus rode off
into the sunset. (laughing)
- Sorta.
See,
see what, uh...
What my mom didn't know,
what nobody knew
was that painting wasn't for me.
It was for you.
It was for you, Vernon.
It was my gift to you so that
you stop calling me names.
- What? Boy, I ain't
never called you no names.
- No. See, that's where
you wrong again, Vernon!
There wasn't a horrible name
that you didn't call me.
To you, I wasn't Carl, I was
Carol.
What?
Oh, come on, man. (laughing)
- [Carl] Oh, now that's funny?
You think that's funny?
What, you don't remember that
either?
- Anybody could mess up
a name from time to time.
Especially if they had a couple.
- I was Carol when you were
sober!
But a couple was, it was just
enough
to bring out the evilness in
you.
- I was good to you, boy.
- Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You were good to us.
You was real good to us.
And after a couple, you got even
better.
Yeah, when you had a couple it
was,
it was, it was punk
and sissy
and faggot.
- Will you these loosen these
ropes?
You rubbing the skin off
my mother fucking wrists!
- Oh, now you want me
to do you another favor?
What about our deal, man?
I was supposed to do something
for you.
Show you there was bullets in
the gun
and you supposed to tell me
about Christmas night 1967!
But so far I'm doing all the
telling.
You know what?
I'm gonna show you how fair I
can be.
Despite everything.
(Vernon grunting)
(Vernon grunting)
- Ah.
(Vernon sighing)
Shit.
- [Carl] Yeah. Make me one too.
(Vernon grunting and panting)
(Vernon grunting)
- Now you wanna hear my side of
the story
of what happened back then?
(soft music)
Even though your mama,
your mama never missed a chance
to tell me
how much better you was
than my own sons.
She...
She always was showing
me your report card,
bragging about all the As you
got,
just like she had got the marks
herself.
(Sylvia chuckling)
- Vernon, can you believe
how smart my little Carl is?
I mean, he is the brightest
one in the family.
Look at all those As. (laughing)
My, my, my.
- You know she used to
get up all on my nerves
with all the god damn bragging.
- Is that why you beat her?
- What?
Never laid a hand on that woman.
- Oh, that's funny because
I seem to remember a night
you tried to choke her out.
- You know, Vern.
Stop.
Stop it.
Vernon. (grunting)
Vernon!
Stop! (panting)
Get off of me before the
kids come in. (sobbing)
- Get off my mommy!
- That's not what happened.
It's a fucking lie.
Man.
We, we was just wrestling.
We was playing.
(both laughing)
- Ooh, Vernon.
- Yeah.
- Oh, Vernon.
- Yeah.
- [Sylvia] Gotta get off of
me before the kids come in.
- [Vernon] No, let them come in,
shoot.
(Sylvia laughing)
- [Sylvia] Vernon.
- Get off my mommy!
- Boy, you know I'm just
playing with your mama.
Come on. Go on, get.
- And, and that's when you
walked in after you saw us
and you thought I was trying to
hurt her,
but we was just playing, man!
You know what, you was always
getting shit wrong, Carl.
I mean, you was always trying
to protect your mama from me,
but I never once did
anything wrong to her.
Not once!
I was good.
- Yeah, you were good to her.
- Yeah, I was real good.
Oh, and she spoiled you!
She spoiled all y'all, but
especially you.
I mean, I was there trying to be
a man
and make a man out you.
And she just thought I
was being cruel to you
because I talk a little rough to
you.
Well, if I wasn't there,
who else going to do it, huh?
She sure as hell wasn't,
with all that kissing up and
bragging on all you boys.
What kinda woman kisses up
on a half grown ass boy?
Shit!
If I wasn't there to
grow you up to be a man,
then who else was gonna do it,
huh?
Your daddy wasn't shit.
He was nowhere to be found.
So who else was there?
- Yeah. Yeah. You.
You were the self appointed man
maker.
It was your job to, to
taunt me and to mock me
and curse me into manhood.
And when she stepped in
to make you back off,
you did what any real man would
do.
You beat her.
- That's a fucking lie.
- You beat her like she
was some kind of animal.
- I never laid a hand on that
bitch!
- I'd be careful with my
next words if I was you.
- Why you here, Carl?
Huh?!
What gives you the right
to lie about who you are
and come in here and pull
a fucking gun on me!?
And tie me up and tell
me some bullshit story
about what you think I did to
you
and your mama 20 years ago?
(soft music)
- You said you wanted
to make a man out of me?
- Yeah!
- Is that why you did it?
- Oh my God.
Here we go again.
Did what?
- The night I gave you the
painting,
do you remember what you did?
- I probably put that
smelly thing outside.
The fucking cheap oil paint
smelled
like a sack of dead possums.
- So you do remember?
- I remember the stink.
- Do you remember what you said?
- I graciously thanked
you for that smelly thing.
- Not quite.
You laughed at it.
And you told me what you thought
about it.
You told me what you thought
about me.
- Fuck kind of bullshit is this?
Ain't nobody could have made
this
except some faggoty ass punk.
That's what you are, huh?
You ain't nothing but a little
faggot.
But I know how to toughen you
up.
I know how to make a man out of
you.
Yeah.
- That's a lie!
I never talked to you like that.
(Vernon groaning)
(Vernon inhaling)
Ah!
(Vernon groaning)
No, no ice for my arm?
- You don't deserve it.
- Deserve it?
- You shouldn't have charged me!
- You come into my house,
you hold me at gunpoint,
tie me up in my room and
when I try to defend myself,
you, you break my arm.
- You're fine.
- Oh.
What are you now? You were a
reporter.
Now you're a fucking doctor?
- I said you're fine!
- Look, well, it hurts like
hell!
Can I at least have some ice
please
or at least a drink or something
to ease this god damn pain!
- No!
(Vernon grunting)
(Vernon sighing)
(pills rattling)
This it?
- Yeah.
- This is the first and last
time.
These things are strong
and you've been drinking.
- He says (chuckles)
as he gives 'em to me.
- You don't want it?
- Yeah. Yeah, I want it.
I want it. I want it.
I want it.
- Open your mouth.
(Vernon grunting)
(Vernon exhaling sharply)
(Vernon grunting and panting)
- Hey, hey, hey, hey.
I, I got a proposition for you.
(chuckles)
Ah.
(Vernon sighing)
Why don't you gimme some ice for
my arm
and I'll give you some JD for
that ice.
Tell you where my stash is.
(chuckles)
- No thanks.
- You wanna play some checkers?
Hey, I got one good arm left,
why don't we do some one
arm wrestling? (chuckles)
Winner gets that gun. (chuckles)
- Oh, you think this is funny?
(Vernon laughing)
- Yeah, I think it's funny.
I think I ain't seen none of
y'all in 20 something years
and next thing you know, I'm
tied up in my living room
with a gun pointed at my head
and little nigga holding the gun
is an all grown up version of my
stepson.
And now he's telling me
something
about a fucking painting.
That he gave me back in 1969.
(laughing)
- 67!
- What the fuck ever!
So what you gonna do now, huh?
Shoot me?
Then shoot me then mother
fucker!
Shoot me.
Shoot me.
(Carl chuckling)
- Not so tough all tied up.
We gonna finish talking.
And you not gonna get up out of
that seat.
No more loosening the ropes.
No more going to the bathroom.
No more nothing until we're done
talking.
(eerie music)
- All right.
All right.
All right.
Maybe I, I was a little
tough on you growing up,
but that's what you needed.
- Why did I need to be
beaten down by your words?
- I wasn't beating you down,
boy.
I was toughening you up.
- Why did I need to be toughened
up?
- Now you, you the one
that don't remember.
Boy, you was weak.
At the age of 10 you was the
size of a boy that was seven.
You, you, you,
you swished when you walked.
And you wouldn't play no boy
games.
You always playing with
your sister and her dolls.
The Christmas before the
one you was talking about,
we got your sister one
of them Easy Bake Ovens
and you damn near knocked
over to get into that box,
whipping up them little biscuits
and shit.
And you begged your mama to take
some piano lessons at school
'cause you want to be
the first Black Liberace.
- And so that made it okay for
you
to call me all those horrible
names?
- I didn't call you no names!
I never did, but if I did, and
hey,
I'm not admitting that I did
'cause that was a hell of a long
time ago,
but if I did, it was to help
you.
- Faggot ass punk to a 10 year
old.
- It was to help you.
- A booty bandit,
um, rump ranger,
dick loving sissy,
because I like to play
with my little sister.
- It was gonna make you
stronger.
- You were supposed to support
me!
- I was supporting you!
Boy, I was trying to give you
some spine.
- I was a kid!
I was the smartest kid in my
school.
My teacher said if I kept
up the way that I was going,
there's no doubt I'd have
my choice of colleges.
(Vernon laughing)
What is wrong with you?
- You know what they call a
nigger with a college degree?
A nigger!
They, they don't give a fuck
about how smart you are.
You know, white men laugh
at anybody who tried to
compete with him in his world,
but what he fears is somebody
whose nature is stronger than
his.
See, you was trying to
compete with your books
and your grades and your proper
talk.
But what you needed to do
is growing up into was something
that the white boys feared!
And the thing that they
feared more than anybody else
since the day they brought us
over here
on the slave ship is a nigger.
A real man nigger!
Strong, rough.
Tough!
Ha.
Smart'll get you a $2 job
somewhere,
but tough will make 'em fear
you.
And if they fear your ass,
they leave your ass alone.
- Vernon, would you have been
happier
if I was more like your sons?
- The question is,
would you have been happier
if you was like them?
(soft music)
(Vernon grunting)
- Stand up.
Sit your ass back down.
(Vernon grunting)
(Vernon grunting)
- Thank you.
You know when your mama left me,
I was gonna go on back down to
Grayton
or going down south somewhere
and just start over.
I don't know. Something
kept me here in LA.
Who knows?
Get used to a place after a
while,
maybe it was the weather.
Who knows?
I got this little shack,
moved in here about a
month after y'all left.
- Why'd you leave our house?
You could have stayed there.
(Vernon chuckling)
- [Vernon] What was I gonna do
with a big ass three bedroom
house?
- You ever miss it?
- Not really. I miss the pool.
- I miss my friends and my
school.
Mom moved us way out to Pacoima.
It took me a long time
to make new friends.
(Carl sighing)
- So your mama ever get
remarried?
- [Carl] No.
- How's she doing?
- She died six years ago.
- I'm sorry.
Your brother, sister?
- They're good.
They both have kids.
They're doing well.
- You ever get married?
Never got married.
Why?
(Vernon chuckling)
I bet you went to college
though.
All right. All right. I'm sorry.
All right. I didn't mean it like
that.
- Yeah, I went to college.
I had to,
to prove myself to myself.
And to you.
Everything I did from that
night was to prove myself.
Even after you were long gone,
I still felt the need
to prove myself to you.
I figured out the things
that I was good at
and I became better than
anybody else at 'em.
And the things that I didn't do,
the, the things that I
couldn't be the best at, well,
those things just made me dive
deeper
into the, the things I was good
at.
I couldn't play sports
so I studied twice as hard
as any of the other students.
I couldn't get girls
so I ran for student body
president and I won twice!
And that's where everything
started going wrong.
I was doing everything that
everybody said
were the right things to do.
Climbing up the ladder,
on my way to becoming the first
Black this
and the first Black that.
But deep inside,
I was still that little
kid you couldn't stand.
And then I realized something.
And then I realized something!
I realized that that voice,
that voice had told me I was
nothing,
that voice was you.
No matter how much I
accomplished,
no matter how many people
praised me,
no matter how much money I made
or how many firsts I became,
I still was and would always be
that,
that good for nothing little
faggot!
Vernon.
Vernon!
- He's asleep.
He doze off halfway
through the college years.
- Was he paying attention
to anything I said?
- How would I know?
You going to tell him?
- I guess that's why I came
here.
- You sure you're going
to be able to do it?
- Don't you think I can do it?
- I don't know.
Maybe not.
- Why would you say that?
- It's taking you an awfully
long time to get there.
You seem scared.
(soft music)
- Hey!
Hey, I got a piss!
- What?
- I got a piss! I gotta take a
leak!
I gotta take a leak!
- I heard you.
(Vernon grunting)
Hey, no more of those pills,
man.
They got you out on your feet.
- Ah.
I know about dope.
- Leave the door open!
So you did hear my story?
- [Vernon] Yeah. Some of it.
How bad it get for you?
(Vernon peeing)
- Nothing too serious.
I did some jail time.
- [Vernon] Ah, did you go to a
program?
- Yeah.
(toilet flushing)
- [Vernon] Did you do the steps?
- Yes.
(water running)
(Vernon grunting)
Hey, how you know about
that kind of stuff?
(Vernon chuckling)
- Boy, I lost more dope
than you ever took.
- Now I'm gonna leave united
so no more funny business.
- [Vernon] Thanks. It's all
good.
- We need to talk about that
night.
- I don't know what you
want me to say about
something that I don't even
remember.
Like I said before,
maybe I wasn't the best
stepfather,
but I had my faults just
like any other man, but
I just
did my best to raise y'all.
- Why'd you even come into our
lives?
Why couldn't you have
married somebody else?
- Well, your mama needed me.
She needed a man around to help
her.
- And what you need?
What you get out of the deal?
Three hot meals and some pussy!
When did that not become enough?
- Why, you listen here!
- No, you listen here!
You've been talking all night.
But the one thing I
want you to talk about,
you can't seem to remember.
Instead, I gotta listen
to all this bullshit
about how you rode into our
lives
like some kind of knight in
shining armor
to rescue us from a life of
misery.
As I remember it,
life before Vernon was pretty
damn good.
Whatever sent you,
things couldn't have been more
fucked up
than if somebody had set off
a bomb in our living room.
- Boy.
Put a roof over your head.
I put food on your table and
clothes
on your little narrow ass!
- You put your hand down my
pants.
- What?!
(soft music)
- I wanna see how you
coming along down there.
(tense music)
Aw, come on.
Come on now.
Let me see it.
Oh.
That's what you want?
You wanna see mine first?
Okay.
You fucking little sissy.
That's what you want huh, boy?
Okay.
Okay.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
(Vernon grunting)
Yeah.
Uh-huh.
Mm.
Oh.
- Stop it!
- I was scared.
I think I was more scared
because you wouldn't even look
at me.
Just sat there,
staring out the window all
casually.
- What?!
- That was the first time you
molested me.
You molested me every week for
two years!
And it got even worse when we
moved
to that house in the valley.
Your work schedule changed
so you just happened to get home
when I got home from school.
Thank God my sister and brother
had after school activities.
Mom was still on graveyard
shift.
So most afternoons in that
house,
it was just me and you.
- For the love of God.
Will you just stop it!?
- No! You need to hear how you
hurt me!
How everything that
happened from that night
was tied into what you
did to me in that car!
- Why, why you doing this?
- Drink up, buddy.
- I can't drink nothing, man.
I need to get something to eat.
- Why?
- 'Cause I'm diabetic.
- Hurry up. man! Fix something!
- I'll fall out, I'll fall out
if I don't eat something.
- On second thought, I'll help
you.
Hurry up!
What you looking at?
(Vernon chuckles)
- That's all you want
is that bean burrito?
We got plenty pork chops back
there left.
- I don't eat meat.
- [Vernon] What? How you
keeping nature strong?
- My what?
- Your nature.
Means protein.
How you get the protein
if you don't eat meat?
- There's plenty of
protein in other foods.
- Like what? (chuckles)
- Like grains and tofu and
vegetables.
(Vernon laughing)
- Rabbit food.
My mom and them ate
meat three times a day.
Pig, goat,
cow, chicken,
you name it.
If it shit on the ground, we ate
it.
- The shit?
- The meat.
- Chickens don't have four legs.
- You know what, most of
my people live to be 60,
64 years old.
I bet you that's a lot longer
than them grain munchers
you talking about.
- The average lifespan in
the United States is 78.
What did your mom die of?
- Ass cancer.
- Colorectal cancer.
- What?
- Ass cancer, nigger.
- Whatever. Okay.
Anyway, I'm 71 years old
and besides the high blood
pressure,
the diabetes, the gout and
arthritis,
I'm in perfect health.
And my nature (laughing)
is strong as a bull.
Yes, indeed. (laughing)
Woo!
Nature, nature, nature.
(laughing)
- You're disgusting.
Vernon, can I finish my story?
- Do your thing. Do your thing.
- When I left back east,
I used to go to these clubs.
At first it was just an after
work thing.
A gay coworker of mine used to
take me.
- Wait a minute, wait a minute.
Your story.
Now tell your story.
(Carl sighing)
- A gay coworker of mine used to
take me.
We'd do some coke in the
bathroom.
We'd drink, we'd danced with
women,
but we'd go home together.
Eventually we fell out,
but I still went to the clubs.
I'd meet these straight acting
brothers.
At first I felt guilty,
but after a while it became like
a game
to see how many guys I
could take home in a week.
- I'm listening.
- Don't you want to know why
I was attracted to guys
that look like you?
- Thought did cross my mind.
- For years, I thought I had
some kind
of sick attraction to you.
Like, like a Stockholm effect.
- What?
- Stockholm syndrome.
People who have been kidnapped,
they sometimes take the
sides of their captors,
even defending them when
the rescue team comes.
- So you pick guys that-
- Look like you because-
- You thought you liked what
you thought I did to you?
- That's what I thought.
- What, you don't think that no
more?
- No.
- What do you think now?
- I think I was trying to fix
the past
and I couldn't go back in
time to make you accept me.
So, I did the next best thing.
I found people to replace you
and I figured out how
to make them accept me
and how to make them accept me
was giving them the one thing
that they wanted, my body.
- So you gonna blame me
for you turning out the way you
are?
- No.
God made me the way that I am.
You made me what I became.
- What you became?
- Yeah, I thought so lowly of
myself
that I went out and tried
to make myself radioactive.
- Radioactive?
- HIV positive.
- What?
What?!
- Oh, now you scared?
- Boy, you got AIDS?
- At first I got HIV.
I got tested three times to make
sure.
I went two more years without
getting any medical help.
It turned into AIDS.
Once I knew I was good and sick,
I went out and tried to
infect every Black man
that reminded me of you.
I went on a
six month fuck fest.
Traveled up and down the East
coast
from Miami to New York,
going to every sex club,
bathhouse and leather bar I
could find.
And when I was too sick to do it
anymore,
I got a room at a flop
house and waited to die.
Except I didn't die.
I got pneumonia three times.
Was so weak, at
one point I couldn't walk for
two months.
But I didn't die.
- You, you, you, you think you
infected?
I mean, you think you infected
some of those guys you had sex
with?
- I infected a lot of those men.
(soft music)
- Oh my God.
Oh my God.
Oh my God.
- [Carl] Did you like boxing?
- Yeah.
- [Carl] Why?
- I don't know.
The rush you get. I don't know.
- Did you ever really hurt
anybody?
- Yeah, I did once.
- Tell me about it.
- Me and Thomas Bigham,
we was on the, uh,
the boxing team at, uh,
Fort
Lewis and, uh,
well, we was only the, only
two Blacks on the boxing team
'cause back then
negroes,
uh, they wouldn't let negroes
fight white boys, you know?
So they was always matching me
and Bigham
up with each other.
So me and Bigham,
one Friday we would spawn
with each other getting ready
for the fight on the base the
next night.
And we finished late.
Went into
shower.
By the time we got into the
shower,
everybody else was gone.
So I get in the shower first
and I get this funny feeling
that somebody is watching me,
you know?
But uh,
washed the soap out my eyes,
just,
and there was Bigham standing
there three feet from me.
(showers running)
He reaches for my thing.
And I, and I, I push his hand
away.
And he just reaches again.
And this time, you know, I
don't, I don't do nothing.
And the next thing I know,
he's got it in his mouth.
Ah, it don't last long,
but
soon as he finishes,
I rush to put my clothes on
as fast as I ever have in my
life.
You know, I, I, I don't even
put on my drawers or my socks.
I just get dressed and
I, I get in my bunk.
I don't just get, I dive in.
I dive in because I, I, I'm
trying to become invisible.
I figured if I just lay there
long enough,
still enough,
that, that I'll wake up
and all this had been a dream.
So I laid there.
Laid buried there, all through
dinner,
all through the night.
But next morning when that
fucking bugle goes off,
I know it wasn't no dream.
So all that day,
I'm just, I'm just waiting.
I'm waiting for something to
happen.
And then I try to calm down, you
know,
and say, "Hey, that, it ain't,
he ain't gonna tell nobody.
He ain't gonna do it
because then they'd fuck with
him too.
But as that day goes on
and that fight gets closer,
my,
my heart,
my heart won't beat right.
I get this lump in my throat. I,
I...
I...
I can't swallow it down.
- Come on, finish this story.
- So we, we, the third round.
(audience cheering)
- All right, gentlemen,
this is a five round bout.
I wanna have a nice clean
fight tonight, okay?
No headbutts, no hits below the
waist.
And when I say break, I want
you to break right away.
Do you understand these rules?
All right, go ahead and touch
gloves.
Go back to your corners.
Let's have a good fight tonight.
- I hear something, something
like a,
somebody's whistling, you know?
Like not the whistle while
you work kind of sound,
but whistle like-
- Ay, sucky, sucky now!
(man whistling)
- And whole crowd,
200 men just bust out.
(audience laughing)
And I look over at Bigham,
and he's sitting there on the
other side
of that ring with that same
fucking goofy ass smile on his
face.
- [Audience] Bigham!
Bigham!
Bigham!
Bigham!
Bigham!
(bell dings)
(audience yelling)
And I don't know, I must've
blacked out,
because one minute I'm
sitting on the ring,
look at Bigham.
- [Audience] Vernon!
Vernon!
Vernon! Vernon!
- And the next minute
I'm on the other side of that
ring,
pounding him in his face!
- [Audience] Vernon!
Vernon!
- Hey!
Hey!
Hey!
Hey!
- [Audience] Bigham! Bigham!
Bigham!
Bigham!
Bigham!
Bigham!
Bigham!
Bigham!
Bigham!
- Hey!
Hey!
Hey!
Hit him harder than I ever
hit anybody in my life.
(dramatic music)
Hey!
Hey!
Hey!
Hey!
Hey!
(Vernon grunting)
I see his nose break. I see the
blood pop.
Hey!
Hey!
Hey!
And somebody grabbed me.
- Get him, Vernon!
- And the next thing I know
and the next that remember is
is I'm in lock up.
And my hands broke.
And a sergeant standing over
me with these discharge papers,
waiting for me to sign,
saying that
I'm lucky.
I'm lucky Bigham is in a coma,
'cause if he had backed up our
rumor,
they would've court martialed us
both.
- But they sent you home
instead?
- On the first Greyhound to
Grayton.
- Did your folks find out about
it?
- Word got there before the
greyhound did.
I went to the bus stop.
Nobody was there to
meet me at the bus stop.
And there was a note on my door,
said,
"It's better that I leave
town and live somewhere else.
(soft music)
- That's when you moved to LA?
- Yes.
- Why didn't you just stay home?
Maybe try to explain to
your folks what happened.
- What do you call
a woman who loses a husband?
- A widow.
- What about a husband loses his
wife?
- A widower.
- What he call a child
who loses their parents?
- An orphan.
- Right.
What about
a parent who loses a child?
- I don't know. There's,
there's no word for that.
- Right. You know why?
Maybe they thought
a parent losing a child is just
so bad they didn't want to name
it.
Maybe they thought
if they didn't name it,
maybe it would keep it from
happening.
- And you had already
lost all your brothers?
- Yeah.
I was the last hope,
the last man child.
But what I did with Bigham
made me worse
than dead to them.
- I don't understand.
- I know you don't understand.
We talking about way
down South folk thinking,
30, 40 years ago
when the, when the,
when the man was the center of
everything.
The man was the one that
field the fields and
fed the family's belly.
The man was the one that gave
the family
all the money they needed to
eat.
Or anything else they wanted.
The man was the one that
protected the household,
kept everybody safe.
When they wanted to come
to town and put fear in us,
they got the biggest,
strongest Black man in town
and strung him up.
And then made every brother and
sister come to the lynching.
And then they put all the
Black children in front
because they wanted them to get
a clear view of the killing.
They killed the Black man
because they know that's who
everybody,
all the Black people put their
hope in.
And they, they put the
little babies up in the front
because they wanted them
to look and let the fear
go from one generation
to the next.
But thank God all that's over.
Y'all generation don't have no
fear.
- You say it like that's a bad
thing.
- It neither good or bad, son,
but I sure am glad
the way it's turning out.
- Vernon, you know why I
gave you that painting?
- What, of velvet Jesus?
- [Carl] Yeah.
- Why?
- Come here, I wanna show you
something.
Come here.
(Vernon sighing)
Look out that window.
Does that house look familiar to
you?
- The blue one?
- Yeah.
- Yeah.
Now that you mention it.
(Vernon chuckles)
Well, I'll be damned,
it does look a lot like
Johnny Maes' house.
Now, ain't that something.
I never realize how much it
looks like your Grandmother's.
(Vernon laughing)
- Exactly.
I noticed it when I was
driving up the street
and it made me think about
all her religious paintings.
She had a
"Daniel in the Lions' Den"
in one of the bedrooms.
- Mm-hmm.
- "Last Supper" in the dining
room.
- Mm-hmm.
- And a David
with Goliath's severed
head in the living room.
But her favorite,
her favorite was Jesus on the
crucifix
that she hung in the den.
(Vernon chuckles)
And, and every week without
fail,
she grabbed me by the hand
and give me a guided tour with,
with all the biblical talk.
And she told me,
she said that if I could
stay close to Jesus,
that I could be just like the
Bible folks.
And I thought to myself
and what, get eaten by a
lion or hung on a crucifix?
(both laughing)
- Ah, I remember. (laughing)
- And then, and then she told me
that if,
if anybody ever hurt me,
that I could turn them over to
Jesus,
but what I thought she said was
I could turn Jesus over to them.
So when I saw that velvet
Jesus Paint By Numbers
in the thrift store, I thought
to myself,
I can make this painting,
I can make this painting for you
and turn Jesus over to you.
- And I'd be nice to you.
- And you'd be nice to me,
but instead you raped me.
- I don't remember.
- Yeah. And I believe you.
(soft music)
But that still,
that still doesn't take
away from the truth.
Now what you think we
should do about that?
(birds chirping)
Wake up.
(Vernon grunting)
- Oh boy.
I had a dream
that, uh, this was all a dream.
(chuckles)
So now that I'm awake,
how do I know this just
ain't another dream?
- Shut up, Vernon.
- Yeah. Yeah, this ain't a
dream.
You was an asshole in the dream.
- Yeah, I had a dream too.
- Yeah. About what?
- I had a dream I was in a
forest.
And it was late at night
and there was a full moon that
lit up
the plants and the trees,
made it seem like they
were covered in snow.
And, and the ground was
covered with creatures,
look like albino snakes.
Except they had really
big eyes that bulged out.
- Jesus.
- Yeah.
(soft music)
They, they covered the forest
floor.
I was terrified because I
didn't wanna step on any of 'em.
And then I heard a soothing
voice like,
like a narrator from a, a nature
show.
- Uh, "Wild Kingdom"?
- [Carl] Yeah. Exactly.
- Well, okay, what'd he say?
- Something like,
"The, the, the albino pygmy
snake
only comes out once every
eight years to mate."
- Wait, wait, wait, wait a
minute.
If the moon light made the
ground white
and the snakes was white,
how you see the snakes, huh?
- No, no, man, the moon made the
trees
and the plants glow white.
The ground was jet black.
- That don't make no sense.
- It don't have to make no
sense, Vernon, it's a dream.
- All right. Right, right,
right, right.
- Yeah. Anyways.
The narrator, he, he goes on.
He goes on to say,
uh,
"The snake's strategy was
to use its superior numbers
to surround their prey.
And, and with, with their
venomous
or poisonous fangs,
death was certain and
the only way to escape
these vermin
was to, to to rise, to rise
above them."
- You remembered all that shit?
- I'm paraphrasing, man.
- Oh, oh, yeah.
- So,
I do exactly that.
I, I start to rise
10 feet,
20 feet
and, and by the time I'm
at the lower branches
of the pine trees,
I'm, I'm looking down at these
snakes
and they, they, they're ant size
now.
And, and all my fear is gone
and,
and
I'm just floating
peacefully
in the night sky.
- Jesus.
- I think I know what the dream
means.
- Yeah, I do too. (chuckles)
I think it means you need to
leave this Jack Daniels alone
for a while 'cause you've
been drinking too much, boy.
- Ha.
Yeah.
Funny thing is I've been having
this dream
for the last 10 years.
I even went to a shrink so he
could help me interpret it.
- [Vernon] What'd he say?
- He said the snakes were you.
He said it was symbolic,
that they only came out every
eight years
because that's how old I was
when you first molested me.
He said that,
that as long as I stayed
around these snakes
that they had power over me.
- You still believe all that,
huh?
- Some of it.
Some of it, I believe
that you are the snakes,
but that I'm the snakes too.
You know that,
that was my first time
admitting to anybody,
including myself, that I had
slept with all of those men
knowing I was HIV positive.
And if,
and if sin could be measured,
I am miles ahead of you.
- Yeah, well, I,
I guess we all have to decide
how much sin
we can live with.
- Yeah. Yeah.
You right. You right.
But you know
what was interesting is that
he even matched your name
to the vermin.
Vernon.
Vermin.
(tense music)
- So now you gonna kill me?
(gun clicks)
- No. (sobbing)
I'ma shoot me.
(gun fires)
- Ah!
Ah!
Hey!
Hey!
Hey!
Somebody!
(soft piano music)
(soft piano music continues)
(soft piano music continues)
(tape rewinding)
Ah, ain't nobody ever
did a newspaper story
about me before. (chuckles)
I was...
Well, when did you say it
was gonna be in the paper?
Because I think I'm gonna buy
me a whole bunch of copies
to send it to my kinfolks
back home. (laughing)
Yeah, they get a real kick out
of that.
Old Vernon Chambers. Celebrity.
(laughing)
(tape rewinding)
- [Carl] He said the snakes were
you,
he said it was symbolic
that they only came out
every eight years because
that's how old I was
when you first molested me.
He said that as long as I stayed
around
that they had power over me.
But me giving you that Jesus
painting was,
was a way to, to rise above it.
You, you know, he even matched
your name to the vermin.
Vernon.
Vermin.
- You still believe that?
- [Carl] Yeah. Some of it.
(soft music)
(soft music continues)
(soft music continues)
(soft music)
(soft music continues)
(soft music continues)
(gentle music)
(glass shattering)
(gentle eerie music)
(gentle melancholy music)
(gentle jazz music)
(gentle jazz music continues)
(gentle jazz music continues)
(gentle jazz music continues)
(gentle jazz music continues)
(bright tinkling music)
(soft music)
(Vernon grunting)
- Ah, who, who's there?
(Vernon grunting)
Who's there?
- [Gerald] Gerald Thomas,
"Watts Chronicle."
(Vernon grunting)
- I'm coming.
I'm coming.
Okay.
(Vernon sighs)
Boy.
(Gerald knocking)
I'm coming, I'm coming!
All right, all right, I,
I'm coming, I'm, I'm coming.
On the phone, you said
you'd be here around, uh,
6:00, uh, 7:00, but it's only
6:15.
- [Gerald] I apologize.
I thought traffic would
be a little heavier
this time of day.
Figured I could drive
around for 45 minutes
or take a chance and be early.
(chuckles)
I'm not, I mean, I can come
back later if I'm interrupting.
- No, no, nah.
It's better early than
later, I always say.
Uh, I was just reading.
- [Gerald] You said you
were, you were reading?
- Yeah, yeah, I was, uh,
reading the, um, the, uh,
I was reading the sports section
and,
and the Bible. (chuckles)
- [Gerald] Interesting
combination.
- Well, you know, I read the
Word some every day and, uh,
well, wasn't much in the
"Chronicle,"
uh, no offense.
- [Gerald] None taken.
(door creaking)
- You know, you, you, you look
familiar.
Have we, have we met?
- I don't think so. Who
do you think I look like?
- I, I don't know.
I, mm, oh, ah, hey, ah, I'm
just an old man with old eyes.
Come on in, come on in.
And, and, and, and don't
trip over none of that crap.
Try to sue me. (laughs)
- All right, Vernon,
you're not expecting anyone
else, are you?
Wanna make sure we have enough
time for your interview.
- Ah, no. (laughing)
Shit, ain't nobody come
around here no more.
(Vernon sighs)
This house used to be full of
folk.
Uh, neighbors dropping by,
grandkids running around,
even a, even a girlfriend
or two used to come through,
but no more, just old
Vernon's memories. (laughing)
(Vernon sighs)
What, what, what, what'd
you say your name was again?
- Gerald. Gerald Thomas.
Is there, uh, some place
I can sit down, Vernon?
- Oh, excuse me. And where my
manners at?
I, uh, whoa. Uh.
Oh, you know what?
Let me get this here.
Uh.
There you go.
Mm. (Vernon grunts)
And there you go.
Now here, you just park it right
here,
and I'll get right here on the
couch.
- Thanks again, too, for doing
this.
(Bernie laughing)
It shouldn't take long.
- [Vernon] Okay.
- Hope you don't mind,
I, I like to tape record the
interview.
Helps me to write the article
later.
- Ah, ain't nobody ever did
a newspaper story about
me before. (laughing)
I was, uh, well, when did
you say it was gonna be
in the paper because, uh,
I think I'm gonna buy me
a whole bunch of copies just to
send it
to my kinfolks back home.
(chuckles)
Yeah, they get a real kick outta
that.
Old Vernon Chambers, celebrity.
(laughing)
- Uh, the article should
be in next Sunday's paper,
the, uh, in the Lifestyle
section.
- Ah.
So on the phone you say you
writing about Black vets.
- Yeah, that's right.
- Oh, well, uh, I mean, how'd
you find me?
LA must have 50,000 Negros
that served in Korea.
I mean, what made you
decide to write about me?
- Actually, I have a friend
that works at the VA.
He let me look through some,
some records,
and I just picked your name out
at random.
- Ah. (laughing)
Ain't that about nothing.
- So let's get started.
- Pft, all right. Shoot.
I'm ready to become a star.
(laughing)
- Um, let's start with your
early life. Where were you born?
- Um, (clears throat) Grayton,
Alabama,
little town in the sticks
about 40 miles north of Mobile.
- Brothers and sisters?
- [Vernon] Uh, I had, uh, six.
- So there were seven kids
including you?
- No, counting me, there was 13.
We had six boys and six
girls. I was the youngest.
But see, all the boys died
before I was out of short pants.
Um, Jesse and Marvis
got killed in France during
World War II
and Jerome got burned up on
an oil rig in a fire in 1947.
And Terrell, (laughing)
he got shot by pimp in New
Orleans.
Then Roy and Clayton, well,
they got lynched by the Klan.
- So no brothers, just your
sister and your parents?
- Yeah. My sisters and my mama.
You know, my father, he
left at my eighth birthday
and I ain't seen a hide or
hair of them since, you know?
Yep. So it was just me and the
women folk.
- What was that like, growing
up without any men around?
- Well, you could say I missed
having, uh,
a man around to, uh, teach
me how to be a man, you know?
Or you could say I missed having
a man around to screw me up
and got a chance to grow
and to be my own man.
You know what I mean?
- Yeah.
Um, what about your time in the
service?
- Um, well,
I got drafted in '54
and uh, I did bootcamp at
Benning
and I shipped out three months
after.
- And you were stationed?
- In Manila and then Seoul.
Hey, you want drink?
- Sure.
- Uh, JD on the rocks?
- Sure. That'd be great.
(Vernon laughing)
- It's my favorite.
Ah.
Yes, sir.
Oh, okay.
Uh.
(Vernon laughing)
Uh, you know, you gotta excuse
the place.
I gave the maid the day off.
(laughing)
- I can tell.
- Ah.
You know, because of you,
I broke out the good stuff.
(laughing)
Ah.
Ah.
(ice clinks)
Oh.
Forgot the stuff, huh?
(laughing)
Woo!
Ah.
Ah.
Okay.
Yeah.
How's that? That's good?
- That's great.
- All right.
(Vernon laughing)
Woo!
Yes. To super stardom.
(laughing)
- Cheers.
(soft jazz music)
Anything unusual happen in Seoul
or Korea?
- Ah. Well.
I caught the clap from
a $5 hoe. (laughing)
- Anything a little more
exciting?
Maybe combat with the enemy?
- Well, uh,
between who?
The, the gooks or the crackers?
- Either.
- Well, the gooks never did
anything to me, you know?
- What about the crackers?
- Uh, uh, you need some more
ice?
- No, this is, this is fine.
- You mind, you mind if I get
some
because, uh, I like
my women hot and my
liquor cold. (laughing)
Ah. (sighing)
Ah.
Ah.
- So you were, you were
saying about the crackers.
- Mm.
Let's just say I got out
of the war in one piece,
but the problem was I couldn't
go back home. (chuckles)
- You couldn't go back home
again?
(Vernon laughing)
- You know, I should put that
shit
on a bumper sticker. (laughing)
So you moved here to LA
and what the early 60s?
- '64.
Then I met a sweet young girl
from Tulsa
named Gwendolyn Miller.
(chuckles)
Yes, indeed.
I had two boys by her,
but we split after three years.
- Why'd you split?
- She caught me with another
woman.
Hey, y-you ain't gonna put
that in the paper, are ya?
- Well, not if you don't want me
to.
- Ah, it don't matter.
It's a new day, ain't it?
(chuckles)
People don't care about that
kind of thing no more, do they?
Not like it was when I
was coming up. (chuckles)
Yeah, getting divorce
was a big deal back then.
- Yeah, I guess you're right.
Anything else interesting
happen in the service?
(Vernon sighing)
- Nah, not really.
Well I beat up a guy once.
- White guy?
- Black.
- What happened?
- He disrespected me.
- How so?
- Hey, how, how's that drink?
- It's fine.
You were telling me about the
fight.
- Oh, well, uh,
oh, you know, you,
you, you, you, you still
wanna know about that?
To tell, the fact is I don't
even know what got between us.
I, maybe it was probably
something stupid.
Maybe it was a woman of a pair
of socks.
- Did you get in trouble for it?
- The what, what? The fight?
No.
Really, I don't remember.
Korea was a long time ago, son.
- All right.
Let's, um, let's go back to your
family.
- [Vernon] Uh, well, uh,
I-I really don't talk
about my folks much either.
- What about the family
you made here in LA?
- Okay.
Well, I already told you about
Gwendolyn.
- Was she your only wife?
- No, I had another one besides
Gwen.
Uh, her name was Sylvia.
- What was she like?
- Ah.
She was tall, stacked.
(laughing)
Green eyes.
Woo! Spoke real proper, real
classy.
But you know what?
I got some pictures.
- Let me see if I...
See, where is it?
Ah.
Let's see.
Hold on. I know they right...
Ah, shoot.
Okay.
Let's see.
Oh.
Boy.
Oh. Shoot.
Ah, here they go. (laughing)
Woo!
Ah.
This was Gwen
and this is Sylvia.
I know you can't tell just
from looking at me now,
but I used to be quite the young
buck
back in the day! (laughing)
Woo-wee! (laughing)
Foxes like those two used to
fall all over me. (laughing)
Woo,
baby!
Mm.
Ah. (chuckles)
- Did she have any kids?
- Ah, Sylvia?
Yeah, she had two boys
by her first husband
and a little girl from her
second.
- What did this Sylvia
Martin do for a living?
- Sylv, well, she was...
Wait a minute.
How'd you know her last name was
Martin?
- You told me.
- No, I didn't. I-I
never said a full name.
- It must have been in
your file then at the,
at the VA office.
- Uh-uh.
Once they discharge you,
they don't mess with your
records no more.
And I got discharged in '55.
I married Sylvia in '64.
So,
how'd you know?
- Well. (chuckles)
- Wait a minute.
I knew you looked...
Carl. Is that...
Recognized you!
- Sit down!
Shut up!
(tense music)
- What the f... (panting)
Oh God. What the hell are you
doing?
Are you fucking crazy?
What the hell is-
- Shut up!
- Boy.
Boy, get this shit off me.
- Be still!
- Gonna knock your ass out.
God damn it!
What the fuck you doing!?
- You ain't gonna do nothing.
- Take this shit off me!
(panting)
Fuck.
God. (panting)
Hey, what is, what is this?
What, what are you doing?!
- Sh!
Be quiet!
- Why are you here, man?
What do you want with me?
- I wanted to see you one last
time.
Get your side of the story.
Hear what you have to
say about those days.
- Hear what I had to say about
what days?
What days?!
- The days when you lived with
us.
I wanna hear what you have
to say about those days.
Hear what you have to
say about those times.
- Boy, you smoking.
I don't know what the
fuck you talking about!
Take this shit off me and get
out
of my mother fucking house!
- Whoa.
Whoa, Vernon, you've been so
hospitable up until this point.
- Okay, boy.
All right.
So far nothing bad has happened.
Now why don't you just
leave before something does?
- No!
That's where you wrong, Vernon.
A lot of bad things have
happened
and I want you to talk
about those things, Vernon.
It's a whole lot that I don't
understand.
It's still a whole lot that I
don't know.
I need you to talk about
those things, Vernon.
- What damn things, boy?!
(Carl laughing)
- Oh, you don't know
what I'm talking about?
Huh?!
You want me to think that you,
you just some feeble old
man without no memory.
Like you can't remember anything
past
last week's bingo game
at the old folks home.
Is that what you want me to
believe?
- Boy, if you don't let me
loose,
I'm gonna start yelling.
- [Carl] Go ahead and yell.
- I'm gonna start yelling and
somebody's going to hear me
and call the cops.
- Go ahead and yell!
- And the cops are going to
bust in here and bust you, fool!
- They gonna bust in here
and find me holding a gun
on an old man that I tied up.
- That's right!
- That's right. Maybe that's
right.
Maybe that's what they
going to find, Vernon.
Or maybe they gonna find you
with a bullet in your head.
(chuckles)
And me gone.
This Watts, Vernon.
Don't nobody care if you yell.
And even if they did call the
cops,
it's gonna take 'em 40
minutes to get here.
How far do you think I
can get in 40 minutes?
(Vernon screaming)
(Carl screaming)
- Help!
- Help! Oh, take it.
Oh, you like that?
Oh, you like that?
(Carl screaming)
- Help! Help!
- Oh, oh, take it.
Take it. Oh, you like that,
Daddy?
Oh yeah, you like that?
Oh yeah, you like it.
Oh, you like it.
(Vernon panting)
(Carl laughing)
(Vernon screaming and panting)
- Oh, you ain't gonna shoot
nobody!
- Keep yelling, keep yelling and
find out.
- All right.
All right!
All right. Just calm down, all
right?
Just, and put that damn gun
down!
I'll tell you what you
wanna know. Untie me!
But you gotta let me
loose first. All right?
- How about, how about, how
about,
how about you earn my trust?
- All right. All right. All
right.
What do you, what you wanna
know?
What do wanna know?
- Wanna know about that night.
- What night?
- Christmas night! 1967, man!
- I...
I can't remember that far back.
- You don't remember?
Come on, Vern, you're supposed
to be building trust with me.
This is a relationship that
we're supposed to be building
and relationships are built on
trust!
I do something for you and
you do something for me.
You tell me the truth
about what I want to know
and I untie you and walk away
from here.
(Vernon panting)
- How I even know that
damn thing is loaded?
(soft piano music)
- Do you know they make you wait
10 days
before you can bring home
the gun that you bought?
Did you know that?
They don't make you wait
for the bullets though.
I bought two boxes.
.36 caliber.
Why I got so many?
Most I'ma I need is one.
(gun clicks)
(Vernon grunting and panting)
Now,
I did something to earn your
trust.
- What?!
- I showed you that the gun was
loaded.
So now you do something to earn
my trust.
- What do you want?!
- I want to know about
Christmas night, 1967.
- I...
- Come on.
Come on, Vernon.
It was only what?
19 years ago.
You lived with us in that little
house
over on St. Matthews.
Mom worked the graveyard
shift at the diner
and they always threw
this big Christmas party
for the employees and the
families.
(people chattering)
(soft piano music)
- Ho, ho, ho.
So what can Santa bring you for
Christmas?
- A velvet Jesus.
- A what? What?
- A velvet Jesus Paint
by Numbers art project.
It's a picture of Jesus on
a piece of black velvet.
- With a cheap cardboard
backing.
It came with 10 little jars of
different colored oil paints.
Skinny Santa couldn't understand
why an eight year old would
wanna make a painting of Jesus.
- How about a nice toy dump
truck or a baseball mitt?
Doesn't that sound better than
a...
I mean, a...
- A velvet Jesus.
But that's what I want.
- Okay.
Ho, ho, ho.
(girl giggling)
(soft music)
- So what you gonna get for
Christmas?
I want a slingshot.
- I want a new Rock'em Sock'em
Robot kit.
- What about you, fairy boy?
Gonna get a new doll?
- No! I want a velvet Jesus.
(kids laughing)
- Leave him alone!
He's special. He's an artist.
- Well, our dad's says he's
soft.
- Well, Vernon's a joke, so who
cares?
- Stop it! Stop it! Stop it now!
You boys know better than this.
I'm gonna call your father
Vernon.
Now what is going on?
- Nothing. We were just playing.
- Carl, is that what happened?
- [Carl] Yes, ma'am.
- Okay, let's get cleaned
up so we can go see Santa
and then go to the Christmas
party, okay?
- Psh, you ain't our mama.
- You boys okay?
- Were fine.
(soft music continues)
Come on.
- Listen, will you please tell
me
what this little story got to do
with me being tied up
in my own damn house?!
- Actually, this part,
this part don't have much
to do with you at all.
It's the next part.
The next part, that's
where you come in, Vern.
- Well, could you get the remote
and fast forward us to that
part, please?
- No, Vern. Hold on!
You see, these Santas,
these rent-a-Santas,
they had this little trick
that they used to do.
When, when the kid tell
them what gift they wanted,
the Santa would repeat it in a
loud voice
with a big "ho, ho, ho", loud
enough
so the parents could
hear what the kid wanted.
So come Christmas morning,
it'd be a Chatty Cathy doll
or a Hot Wheels set.
- Or a velvet Jesus.
- Or a velvet Jesus under the
tree.
(Vernon laughing)
- Well, you got your
little Paint by Numbers kit
and you and Jesus rode off
into the sunset. (laughing)
- Sorta.
See,
see what, uh...
What my mom didn't know,
what nobody knew
was that painting wasn't for me.
It was for you.
It was for you, Vernon.
It was my gift to you so that
you stop calling me names.
- What? Boy, I ain't
never called you no names.
- No. See, that's where
you wrong again, Vernon!
There wasn't a horrible name
that you didn't call me.
To you, I wasn't Carl, I was
Carol.
What?
Oh, come on, man. (laughing)
- [Carl] Oh, now that's funny?
You think that's funny?
What, you don't remember that
either?
- Anybody could mess up
a name from time to time.
Especially if they had a couple.
- I was Carol when you were
sober!
But a couple was, it was just
enough
to bring out the evilness in
you.
- I was good to you, boy.
- Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You were good to us.
You was real good to us.
And after a couple, you got even
better.
Yeah, when you had a couple it
was,
it was, it was punk
and sissy
and faggot.
- Will you these loosen these
ropes?
You rubbing the skin off
my mother fucking wrists!
- Oh, now you want me
to do you another favor?
What about our deal, man?
I was supposed to do something
for you.
Show you there was bullets in
the gun
and you supposed to tell me
about Christmas night 1967!
But so far I'm doing all the
telling.
You know what?
I'm gonna show you how fair I
can be.
Despite everything.
(Vernon grunting)
(Vernon grunting)
- Ah.
(Vernon sighing)
Shit.
- [Carl] Yeah. Make me one too.
(Vernon grunting and panting)
(Vernon grunting)
- Now you wanna hear my side of
the story
of what happened back then?
(soft music)
Even though your mama,
your mama never missed a chance
to tell me
how much better you was
than my own sons.
She...
She always was showing
me your report card,
bragging about all the As you
got,
just like she had got the marks
herself.
(Sylvia chuckling)
- Vernon, can you believe
how smart my little Carl is?
I mean, he is the brightest
one in the family.
Look at all those As. (laughing)
My, my, my.
- You know she used to
get up all on my nerves
with all the god damn bragging.
- Is that why you beat her?
- What?
Never laid a hand on that woman.
- Oh, that's funny because
I seem to remember a night
you tried to choke her out.
- You know, Vern.
Stop.
Stop it.
Vernon. (grunting)
Vernon!
Stop! (panting)
Get off of me before the
kids come in. (sobbing)
- Get off my mommy!
- That's not what happened.
It's a fucking lie.
Man.
We, we was just wrestling.
We was playing.
(both laughing)
- Ooh, Vernon.
- Yeah.
- Oh, Vernon.
- Yeah.
- [Sylvia] Gotta get off of
me before the kids come in.
- [Vernon] No, let them come in,
shoot.
(Sylvia laughing)
- [Sylvia] Vernon.
- Get off my mommy!
- Boy, you know I'm just
playing with your mama.
Come on. Go on, get.
- And, and that's when you
walked in after you saw us
and you thought I was trying to
hurt her,
but we was just playing, man!
You know what, you was always
getting shit wrong, Carl.
I mean, you was always trying
to protect your mama from me,
but I never once did
anything wrong to her.
Not once!
I was good.
- Yeah, you were good to her.
- Yeah, I was real good.
Oh, and she spoiled you!
She spoiled all y'all, but
especially you.
I mean, I was there trying to be
a man
and make a man out you.
And she just thought I
was being cruel to you
because I talk a little rough to
you.
Well, if I wasn't there,
who else going to do it, huh?
She sure as hell wasn't,
with all that kissing up and
bragging on all you boys.
What kinda woman kisses up
on a half grown ass boy?
Shit!
If I wasn't there to
grow you up to be a man,
then who else was gonna do it,
huh?
Your daddy wasn't shit.
He was nowhere to be found.
So who else was there?
- Yeah. Yeah. You.
You were the self appointed man
maker.
It was your job to, to
taunt me and to mock me
and curse me into manhood.
And when she stepped in
to make you back off,
you did what any real man would
do.
You beat her.
- That's a fucking lie.
- You beat her like she
was some kind of animal.
- I never laid a hand on that
bitch!
- I'd be careful with my
next words if I was you.
- Why you here, Carl?
Huh?!
What gives you the right
to lie about who you are
and come in here and pull
a fucking gun on me!?
And tie me up and tell
me some bullshit story
about what you think I did to
you
and your mama 20 years ago?
(soft music)
- You said you wanted
to make a man out of me?
- Yeah!
- Is that why you did it?
- Oh my God.
Here we go again.
Did what?
- The night I gave you the
painting,
do you remember what you did?
- I probably put that
smelly thing outside.
The fucking cheap oil paint
smelled
like a sack of dead possums.
- So you do remember?
- I remember the stink.
- Do you remember what you said?
- I graciously thanked
you for that smelly thing.
- Not quite.
You laughed at it.
And you told me what you thought
about it.
You told me what you thought
about me.
- Fuck kind of bullshit is this?
Ain't nobody could have made
this
except some faggoty ass punk.
That's what you are, huh?
You ain't nothing but a little
faggot.
But I know how to toughen you
up.
I know how to make a man out of
you.
Yeah.
- That's a lie!
I never talked to you like that.
(Vernon groaning)
(Vernon inhaling)
Ah!
(Vernon groaning)
No, no ice for my arm?
- You don't deserve it.
- Deserve it?
- You shouldn't have charged me!
- You come into my house,
you hold me at gunpoint,
tie me up in my room and
when I try to defend myself,
you, you break my arm.
- You're fine.
- Oh.
What are you now? You were a
reporter.
Now you're a fucking doctor?
- I said you're fine!
- Look, well, it hurts like
hell!
Can I at least have some ice
please
or at least a drink or something
to ease this god damn pain!
- No!
(Vernon grunting)
(Vernon sighing)
(pills rattling)
This it?
- Yeah.
- This is the first and last
time.
These things are strong
and you've been drinking.
- He says (chuckles)
as he gives 'em to me.
- You don't want it?
- Yeah. Yeah, I want it.
I want it. I want it.
I want it.
- Open your mouth.
(Vernon grunting)
(Vernon exhaling sharply)
(Vernon grunting and panting)
- Hey, hey, hey, hey.
I, I got a proposition for you.
(chuckles)
Ah.
(Vernon sighing)
Why don't you gimme some ice for
my arm
and I'll give you some JD for
that ice.
Tell you where my stash is.
(chuckles)
- No thanks.
- You wanna play some checkers?
Hey, I got one good arm left,
why don't we do some one
arm wrestling? (chuckles)
Winner gets that gun. (chuckles)
- Oh, you think this is funny?
(Vernon laughing)
- Yeah, I think it's funny.
I think I ain't seen none of
y'all in 20 something years
and next thing you know, I'm
tied up in my living room
with a gun pointed at my head
and little nigga holding the gun
is an all grown up version of my
stepson.
And now he's telling me
something
about a fucking painting.
That he gave me back in 1969.
(laughing)
- 67!
- What the fuck ever!
So what you gonna do now, huh?
Shoot me?
Then shoot me then mother
fucker!
Shoot me.
Shoot me.
(Carl chuckling)
- Not so tough all tied up.
We gonna finish talking.
And you not gonna get up out of
that seat.
No more loosening the ropes.
No more going to the bathroom.
No more nothing until we're done
talking.
(eerie music)
- All right.
All right.
All right.
Maybe I, I was a little
tough on you growing up,
but that's what you needed.
- Why did I need to be
beaten down by your words?
- I wasn't beating you down,
boy.
I was toughening you up.
- Why did I need to be toughened
up?
- Now you, you the one
that don't remember.
Boy, you was weak.
At the age of 10 you was the
size of a boy that was seven.
You, you, you,
you swished when you walked.
And you wouldn't play no boy
games.
You always playing with
your sister and her dolls.
The Christmas before the
one you was talking about,
we got your sister one
of them Easy Bake Ovens
and you damn near knocked
over to get into that box,
whipping up them little biscuits
and shit.
And you begged your mama to take
some piano lessons at school
'cause you want to be
the first Black Liberace.
- And so that made it okay for
you
to call me all those horrible
names?
- I didn't call you no names!
I never did, but if I did, and
hey,
I'm not admitting that I did
'cause that was a hell of a long
time ago,
but if I did, it was to help
you.
- Faggot ass punk to a 10 year
old.
- It was to help you.
- A booty bandit,
um, rump ranger,
dick loving sissy,
because I like to play
with my little sister.
- It was gonna make you
stronger.
- You were supposed to support
me!
- I was supporting you!
Boy, I was trying to give you
some spine.
- I was a kid!
I was the smartest kid in my
school.
My teacher said if I kept
up the way that I was going,
there's no doubt I'd have
my choice of colleges.
(Vernon laughing)
What is wrong with you?
- You know what they call a
nigger with a college degree?
A nigger!
They, they don't give a fuck
about how smart you are.
You know, white men laugh
at anybody who tried to
compete with him in his world,
but what he fears is somebody
whose nature is stronger than
his.
See, you was trying to
compete with your books
and your grades and your proper
talk.
But what you needed to do
is growing up into was something
that the white boys feared!
And the thing that they
feared more than anybody else
since the day they brought us
over here
on the slave ship is a nigger.
A real man nigger!
Strong, rough.
Tough!
Ha.
Smart'll get you a $2 job
somewhere,
but tough will make 'em fear
you.
And if they fear your ass,
they leave your ass alone.
- Vernon, would you have been
happier
if I was more like your sons?
- The question is,
would you have been happier
if you was like them?
(soft music)
(Vernon grunting)
- Stand up.
Sit your ass back down.
(Vernon grunting)
(Vernon grunting)
- Thank you.
You know when your mama left me,
I was gonna go on back down to
Grayton
or going down south somewhere
and just start over.
I don't know. Something
kept me here in LA.
Who knows?
Get used to a place after a
while,
maybe it was the weather.
Who knows?
I got this little shack,
moved in here about a
month after y'all left.
- Why'd you leave our house?
You could have stayed there.
(Vernon chuckling)
- [Vernon] What was I gonna do
with a big ass three bedroom
house?
- You ever miss it?
- Not really. I miss the pool.
- I miss my friends and my
school.
Mom moved us way out to Pacoima.
It took me a long time
to make new friends.
(Carl sighing)
- So your mama ever get
remarried?
- [Carl] No.
- How's she doing?
- She died six years ago.
- I'm sorry.
Your brother, sister?
- They're good.
They both have kids.
They're doing well.
- You ever get married?
Never got married.
Why?
(Vernon chuckling)
I bet you went to college
though.
All right. All right. I'm sorry.
All right. I didn't mean it like
that.
- Yeah, I went to college.
I had to,
to prove myself to myself.
And to you.
Everything I did from that
night was to prove myself.
Even after you were long gone,
I still felt the need
to prove myself to you.
I figured out the things
that I was good at
and I became better than
anybody else at 'em.
And the things that I didn't do,
the, the things that I
couldn't be the best at, well,
those things just made me dive
deeper
into the, the things I was good
at.
I couldn't play sports
so I studied twice as hard
as any of the other students.
I couldn't get girls
so I ran for student body
president and I won twice!
And that's where everything
started going wrong.
I was doing everything that
everybody said
were the right things to do.
Climbing up the ladder,
on my way to becoming the first
Black this
and the first Black that.
But deep inside,
I was still that little
kid you couldn't stand.
And then I realized something.
And then I realized something!
I realized that that voice,
that voice had told me I was
nothing,
that voice was you.
No matter how much I
accomplished,
no matter how many people
praised me,
no matter how much money I made
or how many firsts I became,
I still was and would always be
that,
that good for nothing little
faggot!
Vernon.
Vernon!
- He's asleep.
He doze off halfway
through the college years.
- Was he paying attention
to anything I said?
- How would I know?
You going to tell him?
- I guess that's why I came
here.
- You sure you're going
to be able to do it?
- Don't you think I can do it?
- I don't know.
Maybe not.
- Why would you say that?
- It's taking you an awfully
long time to get there.
You seem scared.
(soft music)
- Hey!
Hey, I got a piss!
- What?
- I got a piss! I gotta take a
leak!
I gotta take a leak!
- I heard you.
(Vernon grunting)
Hey, no more of those pills,
man.
They got you out on your feet.
- Ah.
I know about dope.
- Leave the door open!
So you did hear my story?
- [Vernon] Yeah. Some of it.
How bad it get for you?
(Vernon peeing)
- Nothing too serious.
I did some jail time.
- [Vernon] Ah, did you go to a
program?
- Yeah.
(toilet flushing)
- [Vernon] Did you do the steps?
- Yes.
(water running)
(Vernon grunting)
Hey, how you know about
that kind of stuff?
(Vernon chuckling)
- Boy, I lost more dope
than you ever took.
- Now I'm gonna leave united
so no more funny business.
- [Vernon] Thanks. It's all
good.
- We need to talk about that
night.
- I don't know what you
want me to say about
something that I don't even
remember.
Like I said before,
maybe I wasn't the best
stepfather,
but I had my faults just
like any other man, but
I just
did my best to raise y'all.
- Why'd you even come into our
lives?
Why couldn't you have
married somebody else?
- Well, your mama needed me.
She needed a man around to help
her.
- And what you need?
What you get out of the deal?
Three hot meals and some pussy!
When did that not become enough?
- Why, you listen here!
- No, you listen here!
You've been talking all night.
But the one thing I
want you to talk about,
you can't seem to remember.
Instead, I gotta listen
to all this bullshit
about how you rode into our
lives
like some kind of knight in
shining armor
to rescue us from a life of
misery.
As I remember it,
life before Vernon was pretty
damn good.
Whatever sent you,
things couldn't have been more
fucked up
than if somebody had set off
a bomb in our living room.
- Boy.
Put a roof over your head.
I put food on your table and
clothes
on your little narrow ass!
- You put your hand down my
pants.
- What?!
(soft music)
- I wanna see how you
coming along down there.
(tense music)
Aw, come on.
Come on now.
Let me see it.
Oh.
That's what you want?
You wanna see mine first?
Okay.
You fucking little sissy.
That's what you want huh, boy?
Okay.
Okay.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
(Vernon grunting)
Yeah.
Uh-huh.
Mm.
Oh.
- Stop it!
- I was scared.
I think I was more scared
because you wouldn't even look
at me.
Just sat there,
staring out the window all
casually.
- What?!
- That was the first time you
molested me.
You molested me every week for
two years!
And it got even worse when we
moved
to that house in the valley.
Your work schedule changed
so you just happened to get home
when I got home from school.
Thank God my sister and brother
had after school activities.
Mom was still on graveyard
shift.
So most afternoons in that
house,
it was just me and you.
- For the love of God.
Will you just stop it!?
- No! You need to hear how you
hurt me!
How everything that
happened from that night
was tied into what you
did to me in that car!
- Why, why you doing this?
- Drink up, buddy.
- I can't drink nothing, man.
I need to get something to eat.
- Why?
- 'Cause I'm diabetic.
- Hurry up. man! Fix something!
- I'll fall out, I'll fall out
if I don't eat something.
- On second thought, I'll help
you.
Hurry up!
What you looking at?
(Vernon chuckles)
- That's all you want
is that bean burrito?
We got plenty pork chops back
there left.
- I don't eat meat.
- [Vernon] What? How you
keeping nature strong?
- My what?
- Your nature.
Means protein.
How you get the protein
if you don't eat meat?
- There's plenty of
protein in other foods.
- Like what? (chuckles)
- Like grains and tofu and
vegetables.
(Vernon laughing)
- Rabbit food.
My mom and them ate
meat three times a day.
Pig, goat,
cow, chicken,
you name it.
If it shit on the ground, we ate
it.
- The shit?
- The meat.
- Chickens don't have four legs.
- You know what, most of
my people live to be 60,
64 years old.
I bet you that's a lot longer
than them grain munchers
you talking about.
- The average lifespan in
the United States is 78.
What did your mom die of?
- Ass cancer.
- Colorectal cancer.
- What?
- Ass cancer, nigger.
- Whatever. Okay.
Anyway, I'm 71 years old
and besides the high blood
pressure,
the diabetes, the gout and
arthritis,
I'm in perfect health.
And my nature (laughing)
is strong as a bull.
Yes, indeed. (laughing)
Woo!
Nature, nature, nature.
(laughing)
- You're disgusting.
Vernon, can I finish my story?
- Do your thing. Do your thing.
- When I left back east,
I used to go to these clubs.
At first it was just an after
work thing.
A gay coworker of mine used to
take me.
- Wait a minute, wait a minute.
Your story.
Now tell your story.
(Carl sighing)
- A gay coworker of mine used to
take me.
We'd do some coke in the
bathroom.
We'd drink, we'd danced with
women,
but we'd go home together.
Eventually we fell out,
but I still went to the clubs.
I'd meet these straight acting
brothers.
At first I felt guilty,
but after a while it became like
a game
to see how many guys I
could take home in a week.
- I'm listening.
- Don't you want to know why
I was attracted to guys
that look like you?
- Thought did cross my mind.
- For years, I thought I had
some kind
of sick attraction to you.
Like, like a Stockholm effect.
- What?
- Stockholm syndrome.
People who have been kidnapped,
they sometimes take the
sides of their captors,
even defending them when
the rescue team comes.
- So you pick guys that-
- Look like you because-
- You thought you liked what
you thought I did to you?
- That's what I thought.
- What, you don't think that no
more?
- No.
- What do you think now?
- I think I was trying to fix
the past
and I couldn't go back in
time to make you accept me.
So, I did the next best thing.
I found people to replace you
and I figured out how
to make them accept me
and how to make them accept me
was giving them the one thing
that they wanted, my body.
- So you gonna blame me
for you turning out the way you
are?
- No.
God made me the way that I am.
You made me what I became.
- What you became?
- Yeah, I thought so lowly of
myself
that I went out and tried
to make myself radioactive.
- Radioactive?
- HIV positive.
- What?
What?!
- Oh, now you scared?
- Boy, you got AIDS?
- At first I got HIV.
I got tested three times to make
sure.
I went two more years without
getting any medical help.
It turned into AIDS.
Once I knew I was good and sick,
I went out and tried to
infect every Black man
that reminded me of you.
I went on a
six month fuck fest.
Traveled up and down the East
coast
from Miami to New York,
going to every sex club,
bathhouse and leather bar I
could find.
And when I was too sick to do it
anymore,
I got a room at a flop
house and waited to die.
Except I didn't die.
I got pneumonia three times.
Was so weak, at
one point I couldn't walk for
two months.
But I didn't die.
- You, you, you, you think you
infected?
I mean, you think you infected
some of those guys you had sex
with?
- I infected a lot of those men.
(soft music)
- Oh my God.
Oh my God.
Oh my God.
- [Carl] Did you like boxing?
- Yeah.
- [Carl] Why?
- I don't know.
The rush you get. I don't know.
- Did you ever really hurt
anybody?
- Yeah, I did once.
- Tell me about it.
- Me and Thomas Bigham,
we was on the, uh,
the boxing team at, uh,
Fort
Lewis and, uh,
well, we was only the, only
two Blacks on the boxing team
'cause back then
negroes,
uh, they wouldn't let negroes
fight white boys, you know?
So they was always matching me
and Bigham
up with each other.
So me and Bigham,
one Friday we would spawn
with each other getting ready
for the fight on the base the
next night.
And we finished late.
Went into
shower.
By the time we got into the
shower,
everybody else was gone.
So I get in the shower first
and I get this funny feeling
that somebody is watching me,
you know?
But uh,
washed the soap out my eyes,
just,
and there was Bigham standing
there three feet from me.
(showers running)
He reaches for my thing.
And I, and I, I push his hand
away.
And he just reaches again.
And this time, you know, I
don't, I don't do nothing.
And the next thing I know,
he's got it in his mouth.
Ah, it don't last long,
but
soon as he finishes,
I rush to put my clothes on
as fast as I ever have in my
life.
You know, I, I, I don't even
put on my drawers or my socks.
I just get dressed and
I, I get in my bunk.
I don't just get, I dive in.
I dive in because I, I, I'm
trying to become invisible.
I figured if I just lay there
long enough,
still enough,
that, that I'll wake up
and all this had been a dream.
So I laid there.
Laid buried there, all through
dinner,
all through the night.
But next morning when that
fucking bugle goes off,
I know it wasn't no dream.
So all that day,
I'm just, I'm just waiting.
I'm waiting for something to
happen.
And then I try to calm down, you
know,
and say, "Hey, that, it ain't,
he ain't gonna tell nobody.
He ain't gonna do it
because then they'd fuck with
him too.
But as that day goes on
and that fight gets closer,
my,
my heart,
my heart won't beat right.
I get this lump in my throat. I,
I...
I...
I can't swallow it down.
- Come on, finish this story.
- So we, we, the third round.
(audience cheering)
- All right, gentlemen,
this is a five round bout.
I wanna have a nice clean
fight tonight, okay?
No headbutts, no hits below the
waist.
And when I say break, I want
you to break right away.
Do you understand these rules?
All right, go ahead and touch
gloves.
Go back to your corners.
Let's have a good fight tonight.
- I hear something, something
like a,
somebody's whistling, you know?
Like not the whistle while
you work kind of sound,
but whistle like-
- Ay, sucky, sucky now!
(man whistling)
- And whole crowd,
200 men just bust out.
(audience laughing)
And I look over at Bigham,
and he's sitting there on the
other side
of that ring with that same
fucking goofy ass smile on his
face.
- [Audience] Bigham!
Bigham!
Bigham!
Bigham!
Bigham!
(bell dings)
(audience yelling)
And I don't know, I must've
blacked out,
because one minute I'm
sitting on the ring,
look at Bigham.
- [Audience] Vernon!
Vernon!
Vernon! Vernon!
- And the next minute
I'm on the other side of that
ring,
pounding him in his face!
- [Audience] Vernon!
Vernon!
- Hey!
Hey!
Hey!
Hey!
- [Audience] Bigham! Bigham!
Bigham!
Bigham!
Bigham!
Bigham!
Bigham!
Bigham!
Bigham!
- Hey!
Hey!
Hey!
Hit him harder than I ever
hit anybody in my life.
(dramatic music)
Hey!
Hey!
Hey!
Hey!
Hey!
(Vernon grunting)
I see his nose break. I see the
blood pop.
Hey!
Hey!
Hey!
And somebody grabbed me.
- Get him, Vernon!
- And the next thing I know
and the next that remember is
is I'm in lock up.
And my hands broke.
And a sergeant standing over
me with these discharge papers,
waiting for me to sign,
saying that
I'm lucky.
I'm lucky Bigham is in a coma,
'cause if he had backed up our
rumor,
they would've court martialed us
both.
- But they sent you home
instead?
- On the first Greyhound to
Grayton.
- Did your folks find out about
it?
- Word got there before the
greyhound did.
I went to the bus stop.
Nobody was there to
meet me at the bus stop.
And there was a note on my door,
said,
"It's better that I leave
town and live somewhere else.
(soft music)
- That's when you moved to LA?
- Yes.
- Why didn't you just stay home?
Maybe try to explain to
your folks what happened.
- What do you call
a woman who loses a husband?
- A widow.
- What about a husband loses his
wife?
- A widower.
- What he call a child
who loses their parents?
- An orphan.
- Right.
What about
a parent who loses a child?
- I don't know. There's,
there's no word for that.
- Right. You know why?
Maybe they thought
a parent losing a child is just
so bad they didn't want to name
it.
Maybe they thought
if they didn't name it,
maybe it would keep it from
happening.
- And you had already
lost all your brothers?
- Yeah.
I was the last hope,
the last man child.
But what I did with Bigham
made me worse
than dead to them.
- I don't understand.
- I know you don't understand.
We talking about way
down South folk thinking,
30, 40 years ago
when the, when the,
when the man was the center of
everything.
The man was the one that
field the fields and
fed the family's belly.
The man was the one that gave
the family
all the money they needed to
eat.
Or anything else they wanted.
The man was the one that
protected the household,
kept everybody safe.
When they wanted to come
to town and put fear in us,
they got the biggest,
strongest Black man in town
and strung him up.
And then made every brother and
sister come to the lynching.
And then they put all the
Black children in front
because they wanted them to get
a clear view of the killing.
They killed the Black man
because they know that's who
everybody,
all the Black people put their
hope in.
And they, they put the
little babies up in the front
because they wanted them
to look and let the fear
go from one generation
to the next.
But thank God all that's over.
Y'all generation don't have no
fear.
- You say it like that's a bad
thing.
- It neither good or bad, son,
but I sure am glad
the way it's turning out.
- Vernon, you know why I
gave you that painting?
- What, of velvet Jesus?
- [Carl] Yeah.
- Why?
- Come here, I wanna show you
something.
Come here.
(Vernon sighing)
Look out that window.
Does that house look familiar to
you?
- The blue one?
- Yeah.
- Yeah.
Now that you mention it.
(Vernon chuckles)
Well, I'll be damned,
it does look a lot like
Johnny Maes' house.
Now, ain't that something.
I never realize how much it
looks like your Grandmother's.
(Vernon laughing)
- Exactly.
I noticed it when I was
driving up the street
and it made me think about
all her religious paintings.
She had a
"Daniel in the Lions' Den"
in one of the bedrooms.
- Mm-hmm.
- "Last Supper" in the dining
room.
- Mm-hmm.
- And a David
with Goliath's severed
head in the living room.
But her favorite,
her favorite was Jesus on the
crucifix
that she hung in the den.
(Vernon chuckles)
And, and every week without
fail,
she grabbed me by the hand
and give me a guided tour with,
with all the biblical talk.
And she told me,
she said that if I could
stay close to Jesus,
that I could be just like the
Bible folks.
And I thought to myself
and what, get eaten by a
lion or hung on a crucifix?
(both laughing)
- Ah, I remember. (laughing)
- And then, and then she told me
that if,
if anybody ever hurt me,
that I could turn them over to
Jesus,
but what I thought she said was
I could turn Jesus over to them.
So when I saw that velvet
Jesus Paint By Numbers
in the thrift store, I thought
to myself,
I can make this painting,
I can make this painting for you
and turn Jesus over to you.
- And I'd be nice to you.
- And you'd be nice to me,
but instead you raped me.
- I don't remember.
- Yeah. And I believe you.
(soft music)
But that still,
that still doesn't take
away from the truth.
Now what you think we
should do about that?
(birds chirping)
Wake up.
(Vernon grunting)
- Oh boy.
I had a dream
that, uh, this was all a dream.
(chuckles)
So now that I'm awake,
how do I know this just
ain't another dream?
- Shut up, Vernon.
- Yeah. Yeah, this ain't a
dream.
You was an asshole in the dream.
- Yeah, I had a dream too.
- Yeah. About what?
- I had a dream I was in a
forest.
And it was late at night
and there was a full moon that
lit up
the plants and the trees,
made it seem like they
were covered in snow.
And, and the ground was
covered with creatures,
look like albino snakes.
Except they had really
big eyes that bulged out.
- Jesus.
- Yeah.
(soft music)
They, they covered the forest
floor.
I was terrified because I
didn't wanna step on any of 'em.
And then I heard a soothing
voice like,
like a narrator from a, a nature
show.
- Uh, "Wild Kingdom"?
- [Carl] Yeah. Exactly.
- Well, okay, what'd he say?
- Something like,
"The, the, the albino pygmy
snake
only comes out once every
eight years to mate."
- Wait, wait, wait, wait a
minute.
If the moon light made the
ground white
and the snakes was white,
how you see the snakes, huh?
- No, no, man, the moon made the
trees
and the plants glow white.
The ground was jet black.
- That don't make no sense.
- It don't have to make no
sense, Vernon, it's a dream.
- All right. Right, right,
right, right.
- Yeah. Anyways.
The narrator, he, he goes on.
He goes on to say,
uh,
"The snake's strategy was
to use its superior numbers
to surround their prey.
And, and with, with their
venomous
or poisonous fangs,
death was certain and
the only way to escape
these vermin
was to, to to rise, to rise
above them."
- You remembered all that shit?
- I'm paraphrasing, man.
- Oh, oh, yeah.
- So,
I do exactly that.
I, I start to rise
10 feet,
20 feet
and, and by the time I'm
at the lower branches
of the pine trees,
I'm, I'm looking down at these
snakes
and they, they, they're ant size
now.
And, and all my fear is gone
and,
and
I'm just floating
peacefully
in the night sky.
- Jesus.
- I think I know what the dream
means.
- Yeah, I do too. (chuckles)
I think it means you need to
leave this Jack Daniels alone
for a while 'cause you've
been drinking too much, boy.
- Ha.
Yeah.
Funny thing is I've been having
this dream
for the last 10 years.
I even went to a shrink so he
could help me interpret it.
- [Vernon] What'd he say?
- He said the snakes were you.
He said it was symbolic,
that they only came out every
eight years
because that's how old I was
when you first molested me.
He said that,
that as long as I stayed
around these snakes
that they had power over me.
- You still believe all that,
huh?
- Some of it.
Some of it, I believe
that you are the snakes,
but that I'm the snakes too.
You know that,
that was my first time
admitting to anybody,
including myself, that I had
slept with all of those men
knowing I was HIV positive.
And if,
and if sin could be measured,
I am miles ahead of you.
- Yeah, well, I,
I guess we all have to decide
how much sin
we can live with.
- Yeah. Yeah.
You right. You right.
But you know
what was interesting is that
he even matched your name
to the vermin.
Vernon.
Vermin.
(tense music)
- So now you gonna kill me?
(gun clicks)
- No. (sobbing)
I'ma shoot me.
(gun fires)
- Ah!
Ah!
Hey!
Hey!
Hey!
Somebody!
(soft piano music)
(soft piano music continues)
(soft piano music continues)
(tape rewinding)
Ah, ain't nobody ever
did a newspaper story
about me before. (chuckles)
I was...
Well, when did you say it
was gonna be in the paper?
Because I think I'm gonna buy
me a whole bunch of copies
to send it to my kinfolks
back home. (laughing)
Yeah, they get a real kick out
of that.
Old Vernon Chambers. Celebrity.
(laughing)
(tape rewinding)
- [Carl] He said the snakes were
you,
he said it was symbolic
that they only came out
every eight years because
that's how old I was
when you first molested me.
He said that as long as I stayed
around
that they had power over me.
But me giving you that Jesus
painting was,
was a way to, to rise above it.
You, you know, he even matched
your name to the vermin.
Vernon.
Vermin.
- You still believe that?
- [Carl] Yeah. Some of it.
(soft music)
(soft music continues)
(soft music continues)
(soft music)
(soft music continues)
(soft music continues)