Beyond Stranger Things s01e01 Episode Script

1 All right, if you're like me, you just watched nine hours of Stranger Things.
And I am feeling exhilarated, I am blown away, I am shocked, I am mad.
Not mad at the show.
All right? Just angry that there aren't more episodes to keep me binge-watching.
And I am very sad about Mews the cat.
And I have questions, and I know you have questions.
And, over the course of these episodes, we're gonna talk all things Stranger Things 2 with the cast, the Duffer Brothers, and Shawn Levy, and find out why they did not give me a role in the series.
All right, I'm Jim Rash, Beyond Stranger Things starts right-- Wait.
Wait, wait, not now.
Before we start the music, and I'm serious here, if you're watching this before you watch all of Stranger Things 2, you have done it wrong and you are doing it wrong.
Everything that follows is a spoiler.
You've been warned.
[theme music playing.]
Uh, welcome to the table, as we begin our ongoing discussion.
Thank you for laughing as I started.
Welcome to our table.
As we start this journey, I'm joined by Millie Bobby Brown, who plays Eleven, Finn Wolfhard, who is our Mike.
We have executive producer and director of a number of episodes, Shawn Levy.
And, of course, the show's creator, the Duffer Brothers, Matt and Ross.
Welcome, as we start this talk.
I wanna start with Finn and Millie.
I wanna talk about Snow Ball.
- Yes.
Let's talk Snow Ball.
- Please.
What's better? [Finn.]
I'm excited to talk about this.
[Jim.]
I wanna put this all together first.
I just wanna ask, did you guys put Snow Ball on the board and say, "I gotta get to here"? - Oh, yeah.
- Okay, so that-- that we had.
Okay.
- You did? - Yeah.
No, when we started, I was like, "Guys, are we gonna end with the Snow Ball?" And they were like, "Yeah.
" - Like, "I guess I'll wait for it.
" - It was one of the first-- The only difference-- We always knew that was the destination where we wanted to get.
I think that was originally gonna be the reunion of these two.
It ended up being one episode earlier, but otherwise, we wanted to keep them-- That would've been crazy.
- I think it would've been-- - [Matt.]
Too much.
- I would've been like, "Oh, my God.
" - Would've been too crazy.
You wouldn't get that awesome badass entrance of Eleven.
- [Ross.]
Yeah.
- Yeah.
[Jim.]
I think both entrances served different purposes.
- [Ross.]
They did.
- [Matt.]
Yes.
- [Millie.]
Yeah.
- [Jim.]
We'll talk about the other-- It shows the versatility, because you can have you know, the badass Eleven, and then go to her vulnerable side, where she's with Mike, and she looks nice, and she looks pretty, - and, like, it's a nice-- - [Jim.]
A nice balance.
Especially for Finn as well, I feel like.
It's just different, - uh, but it's really cool.
- [Finn.]
Yeah, I feel like, this season, I wasn't really in the Mike mode until, like, end of episode three kicks in.
Like, I start getting more interested.
- You all right? - Yeah.
Yeah, I think so.
- [Mike.]
What happened? - I don't know.
It was just like a magnet or something pulling on my board.
I know that sounds crazy.
And by the end of the season, you see that, oh, he's Mike again.
Like, he's totally like-- Everything's back to normal, but, uh-- For him.
- What does this mean? - For him.
For him, it's back to normal.
- [Millie.]
Yeah.
- And with the second piece of this thing, we obviously have probably more of the build to - a romantic side of that.
- [Finn.]
Yes.
How was shooting that whole little moment there? - So, I'll take this one real quick.
- Thank you.
[laughter.]
We were shooting the Snow Ball scene for, like, four days.
Had to keep coming back.
- Two days.
No.
- [Finn.]
We had to keep coming back.
- It was a hundred per-- [stammers.]
- [Finn.]
Are you-- - Are you sure? - I am a hundred percent sure.
I would say three, but-- - Three.
- But you're wrong.
 It was two.
[laughter.]
[Finn.]
Okay.
First, the original ending was we're dancing, and that was it.
And I just wanted to mess with Caleb - and Sadie.
- [Millie.]
I wanted to mess with Sadie.
And so, I went up to Matt and Ross.
Maybe you were talking about it before.
I was like, "You need to do the kiss with Caleb and Sadie.
" The next day, we were all sitting there, and Matt came in, and he was like, - "We're gonna do it," and I was like-- - Sadie was like, "What?" - [Finn.]
Yeah, exactly.
- I was like, "Sadie, it's not that bad.
" "Not that bad.
" Caleb's like, "I guess--" - [Matt.]
No, that is-- - I'm kidding.
- You got her worked up.
- [Millie.]
I did.
I was like-- We was having sleepovers.
Like, "Oh, my goodness.
Are you excited?" She was like, "Millie, I just-- I don't even wanna think about it.
It probably won't happen.
" She was like, "It's just gonna probably be a dance, and then--" And then we get there.
- [Finn.]
I told Caleb-- - [Millie.]
She has her outfit on.
She's like, "I think it's gonna happen.
" I was like, "Well, I'm happy for you.
" And then we started dancing.
And then it came to ours.
It wasn't even thought of.
Caleb was just frozen in a smile.
-"I guess we're doing the shot.
" - [Matt.]
Caleb was into it.
[Jim.]
Caleb was ready to go.
- By the third-- - Caleb was like ChapStick-- [Finn.]
The third time, he was like, "Okay.
" But we-- 'Cause we were Steadicamming around them, and we kept missing Caleb's reaction to this.
- So, they had to do it-- - [Millie.]
Sadie was like I was like, "Sadie, slow down.
" Is it too late to re-title this episode "The Kiss"? [Jim.]
Yeah.
Might do the whole episode on the kiss.
- I know.
My God.
- The thing was, about that, is that it felt so long just because we were in a gym that was like a hundred degrees - Didn't-- All the extras clapped.
- with a bunch of random-- - [Millie.]
Remember? - [Ross.]
They applauded.
[Millie.]
They applauded.
Weirdest thing.
- [Jim.]
After you kissed? - So, we're dancing, and Finn goes like this-- He was like a ventril-- He was like, "Okay, I'm coming in.
" I was like-- - I was like-- - No, you didn't.
[Finn.]
Yeah, I swear to God.
If you look closely, I'm sure you can see me talking.
- [Matt.]
"I'm coming in"? - [all chatter.]
[Finn.]
Don't know if I said "I'm coming in"-- I need to look back at this edit and make sure you don't say that.
Might have to change the edit now.
Afterwards, everybody clapped, and it was awful.
- The clapping made it awful.
- Yeah, it was awful.
Would you rather have no reaction? - I'd rather it be silent.
- Extras were high-fiving me.
- Yeah, everybody was like, "Whoo!" - Like, "Yeah!" - Or just loud booing.
"What happened?" - [laughing.]
I think we all decided that our new move is to mouth "I'm coming in.
" - [laughter.]
- [Jim.]
Perfect.
I have to say, I've always been curious about how the casting team found all these incredible kids.
Let's take a look at some of their audition tapes.
To the TV, folks.
- Hi, my name is Caleb.
- [all gasp.]
- My God! - I'm 13 years old.
- I'm Noah Schnapp.
I'm ten years old.
- My name is Millie Brown.
- I'm 11 years old.
- Hi, I'm Finn Wolfhard.
I'm sick.
Oh, my God.
I'm 4'11'', I'm 12 years old.
My name's Gaten Matarazzo, and I'm 12 years old.
Am I weird? It just sometimes I feel I don't know.
Like I'm stuck.
You can't see them.
- Look how depressed I look.
- You look like Susan Sarandon.
- [Millie giggles.]
- I wanna watch it.
Nancy, listen to me.
- Listen.
- Listen.
This is probably the most serious, most important thing ever.
I saw [chuckles.]
Oh, my God.
them.
Remember two days ago with that magic trick, when it looked like my Millennium Falcon was really flying? Except I didn't tie it to a string, it was actually flying.
No, I'll prove it.
Swear first, the most excellent promise you can make.
This could be the most excellent promise you can make.
Most excellent promise you can make.
Swear it! Stand over there, Nancy.
Okay.
Now, close your eyes.
I'm not coming out - until your eyes are closed.
- Okay, they're closed.
- Open.
- Open.
Open.
- [overlapping chatter.]
- [Jim.]
Oh, wow.
[laughter.]
No, but I wish I had auditions that looked that good.
I'm serious.
- Yes.
- I mean, some nice tears-- I hope actors everywhere-- You guys were babies.
Also, I hope actors everywhere are taking the tip that you can audition from your bed - [Finn.]
On an iPhone.
- on an iPhone and sick as a dog-- And it doesn't need to be in focus.
[Jim.]
I do wanna ask you about this.
I'd be remiss not to sort of take us to what-- it was, for you guys, probably hauntingly at this point, a blank page.
Was it different breaking this journey than the first time? Don't know what you're talking about.
It was figured out.
- [Jim.]
Good.
- First of all-- - [Jim.]
I assume-- - [Matt.]
Perfectly mapped out - for years to come.
- Intricately planned.
No, it was terrifying.
We started doing it before the show had been released, season one had been released.
It wasn't green-lit, but they started-- Netflix wanted us to start a room and start generating, so none of the baggage or concern of what fans would think entered into it initially.
Which was nice, but it was freaky figuring out, how do we make this story continue in a way that doesn't feel forced, and wanna make sure it can sustain at least a few more years.
Season one, you have the dramatic tension of Will being gone that ties it all together, so we lost-- You lost that, but at the same time, then we had all these characters that we actually knew a lot better now.
Especially after having worked with the actors, and so, being able to write to them and put people like Millie and Dave together.
Now, what did we talk about? Dinner first, then dessert.
Always.
That's the rule.
Yeah? Yes.
Did you see-- notice a difference? From our very first conversations about season two, it was clear that the boys wanted season two to be more cinematic, more ambitious in its storytelling, um but their instinct to always stay true to these characters, no matter how big the scale went Yeah.
And without question, as everyone knows now, season two is not just a little bit bigger, it's a lot bigger.
But it's still rooted in these characters that we really love.
I never gave up on you.
I called you every night.
- Every night for-- - Three hundred and fifty-three days.
This season means adding new characters.
Bob, Murray uh, you know, Max and Billy, to name a few.
Did you, in breaking that, have ideas of characters you wanted to add? Were they discovered along the way? Were there ones that you were like, "We need this type of person"? Um they sort of evolved.
I mean, Billy we-- That was really early on, - 'cause we wanted this human antagonist.
- [Jim.]
Yeah.
And so, that's actually kind of more how Steve started.
Then Steve evolved into definitely not that type of character.
So we wanted to introduce a human villain.
Someone who was kind of irredeemable and a bit of a sociopath.
Pretty boy like you's got nothing to worry about.
Plenty of bitches in the sea.
That's where that character comes from.
And then Bob, we wanted Joyce to have like, kind of a dorky boyfriend.
I always thought stuff like this happened in movies and comic books.
Certainly not in Hawkins, and certainly not to someone like you.
- Or you.
- Yeah.
Bob Newby, superhero.
And then he-- He was-- And this is the thing, where we-- We oftentimes start with a little bit more of a stereotype, in terms of these characters, and then Sean Astin came in.
And we fell in love with Sean.
- On a tape? - I was already a fan.
- He put himself on tape.
- Put himself on tape.
I'm only going on tape now.
That seems to be the way to go.
I'm just going through these tapes, and-- Of course you can go-- And then suddenly, it's Samwise.
Suddenly, it was just-- - It was like a lightning bolt.
- He wasn't intended to be that likable.
- [Jim.]
Really? - He wasn't intended to be as big of a role as he ended.
And then Sean came into the picture and was just so much more - than we ever expected.
- [Shawn.]
Like with Steve Harrington.
[Finn.]
It's what happened with Joe.
[Ross.]
All that stuff of Bob "the Brain," and helping them solve the mystery That's the objective, find the X.
Yeah? What's at the X, pirate treasure? [chuckles.]
Bob, no questions.
- Okay.
- [Ross.]
We just were like, "We want Sean in here more, and we like that energy.
" And he's actually good for Joyce.
- [Shawn.]
That's a heartbreaker.
- [Matt.]
He was gonna give this-- The earliest version of Bob is he gives like, he gives Will this advice [Bob.]
I just looked at Mr.
Baldo and his stupid face, and I said, "Go away.
Go away!" [Matt.]
which turns out to be terrible, - which is to confront-- - "Go away!" I do wanna ask you about this, because I think what's interesting in that moment-- If I'm a viewer, in that moment, I feel like, "Is Bob evil?" - Really? - [Jim.]
Because here's my reason.
It's almost like a premonition, he says, "You need to stop and confront him.
" That brief moment, I was like, "Oh, was this an intention? What you need to do.
" It was supposed to just be he's just clueless.
And, I mean, how would he know? - [Jim.]
Totally.
- You can't put this on Bob.
- Right.
- [Matt.]
You know.
A huge part of this sequel, this season, is built around your evolution, and basically coming into who you are meant to be, or will become.
Correct? From where we first met you.
And so we sort of catch up with you in Hopper's cabin, and, uh I'm just curious, you know, you spent a good portion of time with David Harb-- Hop.
How was that? That was like The scenes with him were so interesting and fun.
Without him? Ugh.
I just sat, watched soaps.
- [Jim chuckles.]
Yeah.
- [Millie.]
Like, ate Eggos.
- [Matt chuckles.]
Oh, my God.
- [Jim laughing.]
- [Millie.]
Found Mike.
"Mike! Mike!" - [Matt.]
Poor Mill.
Put the blindfold on, take it off.
I mean, yeah.
It was like-- I truly felt like Eleven.
Like, I felt like I was stuck.
And then as soon as-- Every time I'd get a scene with David, it was, like, electric.
Like, it was so fun, because he brought so much energy and, like, you know, greatness, I think, into a scene, that I would just get to, like, bounce off of it, you know? He'll throw a line, and then I'll throw it back.
And-- And it was so fun.
And then Shawn'd come in, or the Duffers, and they're like, "Okay, tone it down.
" You know.
"Calm down.
" We knew-- As soon as the guys pitched out this idea that a big chunk of Stranger Things 2 was gonna be this pairing of Eleven and Hopper, everyone knew like, okay, so this is like  Clash of the Titans.
You lie! I don't lie.
I protect and I feed and I teach.
And all I ask of you is that you follow three simple rules.
Three rules.
And you know what? You can't even do that! They would get each other seriously riled up.
- You got power going against power.
- [Jim.]
Yeah.
When you're filming an argument-- - Like, literal power, and then power-- - Oh, yeah, she has powers.
Unfortunately, David Harbour couldn't be with us today, but here's - Eastern Europe.
- what he had to say about Hopper.
I wanna say this, I'm super happy that Hopper gets to be a man, as much as he's also like a dad.
I really don't wanna become the dad on Full House, who's kind of adorable and sweet with kids, but sort of loses all of their own personhood.
One of the things I love about him is his kind of subtle poorly done manipulation of Eleven after he messes up and he comes home, and he's got the Halloween candy.
And he's like, "I'm just gonna be out here by myself eating candy," and like "I could have a heart attack and get fat, or whatever, you don't care.
" That's a very kind of dad thing that, like, my dad would do to me growing up.
I think that he is protective of her.
I think that, you know, with Mike and her and this sweet little thing they got, like, I don't think that he wants her to grow up very fast, and he certainly doesn't want her out there kissing boys.
- [Jim.]
Yeah.
- Very good.
There he goes.
But I mean-- That is a father-daughter relationship you're creating here.
- Paper Man-esque-ish.
- Yeah.
I don't remember-- [stammers.]
I mean, that's why-- Last year, we had him - leaving the Eggos.
- Those were our two ideas: Will is not doing well, and we gotta put Hopper and Eleven together.
That's what sort of launched us into this season.
Those were the two ideas we were excited about.
And then I think, we were excited about with Eleven, in that-- You know, season one, she's just very much fish out of water, and she's almost like an alien, like in an E.
T.
way, with these boys taking care of her.
What we wanted to do this season is-- - [Finn.]
Humanize her.
- Humanize her and have this coming-of-age journey, where she's in this world, but she hasn't-- She's still growing up.
And then also, with that adolescence, like, you know, she's feeling trapped and she's feeling isolated - and-- - Bored.
- [Matt.]
Rebellious.
- You've got a lot of emotions, but also, with these emotions, you have these powers.
So that was also-- Psychic tantrum was something we knew we needed to-- [Matt.]
That was one of the first things on the board, was psychic tantrum.
- And that's-- Yeah, Shawn directed that.
- [Shawn.]
Yeah.
And it's one of my favorite things.
Well, that was also-- It's so juicy, because you have David Harbour and Millie.
- [Jim.]
Mm-hmm.
- [Shawn.]
Both of them are amazing.
The scene was perfectly written.
They had scripted flinging the dictionary and shoving the couch.
- [Matt.]
Yep.
- But all those door slams and stuff were just things we came up with while shooting.
Our special effects crew had to figure it out on the fly.
- [Jim.]
On the fly.
- [Matt.]
That is one-- - You blew out the windows.
- [Shawn.]
That was fun.
- [Finn.]
That was sick.
- And that's real.
That's no visual effects.
We rigged-- - [Matt.]
How was David not in danger? - [Shawn.]
We blocked it-- We knew he was gonna be facing that door.
We knew his face would be protected.
He did not want to use a stunt double.
- [Jim.]
Yeah.
- And so, that was all real.
- [Jim.]
That's fantastic.
- That's what's so awesome.
Uh, Finn, I would like to talk about how you see Mike in Stranger Things, and then you see Mike in Stranger Things 2.
Uh, you have his leadership thing, and now you have a separation from Eleven.
Emo Mike.
That's what we called him on set.
That's what we called him on set.
Well, I think the whole thing is that, like In a year, he doesn't really have anyone to impress anymore, because, like, one, they're older, not playing as much D&D , so we can't really impress, you know, people on that level.
What does age have to do with playing D&D? - Uh-oh.
- You still play it.
Did you see any D&D scenes in season two? - [Matt.]
Okay.
- It was more arcade.
I'm-- Yeah, more arcade.
I'm just saying it's okay for adults to play D&D.
Well, yeah.
- It's totally fine.
- Coming from experience? - No, I'm-- - I'm saying-- Like, 1984, maybe, Gate-- you know, Dustin and Lucas are sort of They wanna play video games.
That's the thing.
And Mike can't really impress anyone with finding a missing kid.
He can't impress anyone with getting a girl.
He can't really do anything.
So, he sort of turns into this loner who can't really develop as a person.
I think he just stops, because he just feels like there's no one there for-- for him to fall back on.
We just felt that it would've been even more difficult for you to move on.
- Yeah.
- And obviously-- Same with Will.
So that's what lead to you guys and that pairing.
[Finn.]
You could see the character sort of light up again, and be like, "Oh, I found my place again.
I can--" - [Shawn.]
He can save-- - [Finn.]
"I can save someone again.
" Hey, if we're both going crazy, then we'll go crazy together, right? Yeah.
Crazy together.
In addition to new characters, we have a new villain.
You know, a Mind Flayer.
A new creation that, again, with sequel, - bigger, stronger, mightier.
- [Ross.]
Yeah.
- [Jim.]
Talk a little about that.
- [Ross.]
It was really, like I said, about laying the table for what's to come.
What we talked about is that in season one, the Demogorgon was-- We always saw it as like a shark, as if in Jaws.
It's in-- Instead of being underwater, it's in another dimension, and then it can come out of the water to grab its prey and then pull it back underwater.
And that was sort of how, um we thought about the Demogorgon in season one.
Once we started talking season two, we went, "But a shark is just-- That's just an animal that's acting out on instinct.
And so, the next-- What would something from this other world be that was actually sentient?" And so that led to the creation of the Mind Flayer.
Um, also, we talked a lot about sustaining the story, we talked about Voldemort.
You need a threat that isn't just a shark, you need a threat - that has plans and goals.
- [Jim.]
Thoughts.
But not something that you can understand.
That was sort of like the Lovecraftian approach to horror.
It's like a cosmic horror, something often from another dimension.
You don't understand what its intentions are.
It's beyond human comprehension.
We loved the idea of a hive mind that connected everything.
And it wasn't called the Mind Flayer for the longest time.
We just referred to it, like the kids, as a shadow monster.
- [Jim.]
Okay.
- And, you know, we were re-researching - Dungeons & Dragons monsters - A couple months in.
and then we stumble-- I had forgotten about the Mind Flayer.
- Stumbled across the Mind Flayer.
- [Jim.]
Mmm.
- And we're like, "This is very similar--" - We did that with the Upside Down.
- We called it the Nether.
- [Shawn.]
The Upside Down-- Literally, no one even knows that, is that the Upside Down, - the actual name for it is the Nether.
- In the script.
Right? - In all of season one.
- Not anymore.
In season one, yeah.
[Millie.]
Right, but we all called it that.
[Shawn.]
Because the characters called it the Upside Down, it just became the Upside Down, but that wasn't actually-- [Jim.]
It played with camera, too.
I loved it.
I loved it.
I wanna get to two big pieces to sort of take us home with this.
Talk about the evolution of El, or her rising.
First, let me talk about that standalone episode, which is obviously, uh unique in a lot of ways.
It's sort of like a novel.
It takes us for a little side trip.
But is so key in her return to finish what she needs to finish.
It was just very fun and exciting for all of us to just explore some different tones and some of the grittier sort of urban '80s movies, and capture that kind of vibe.
And just basically expand the show a little bit beyond this town of Hawkins.
You can't avoid wonderful little nuggets of an homage, - or a moment, you know.
- [Matt.]
Yeah.
And I'll take it to, like the transformation.
Just the physical transformation, you know.
You can do Breakfast Club, you can do Ally Sheedy.
- [Matt.]
Oh, yeah, yeah.
- [Jim.]
Talk about that transformation, and then going into to-- - Tell us about Punk Eleven.
Can't wait-- - Punk Eleven.
- Punk Eleven.
- Punko.
Yeah, that's what I want.
- [Millie.]
Um It was probably - Punko doll.
the hardest 45 minutes I've ever had to do - in my whole entire life.
- Forty-five minutes, meaning? The episode.
But the filming.
You hurt Mama.
- [shouts.]
- [grunts.]
It was the hardest thing ever.
Really, really emotionally challenging.
People say, "Oh, that scene was--" No, this was the hardest thing.
And probably the hardest scene in episode seven was having Papa, you know, there.
I cried for like 45 minutes afterwards in the bathroom.
Like, I was sobbing.
You have to confront your pain.
You have a wound, Eleven.
A terrible wound.
[Millie.]
I was really upset.
I'm never like-- You know, Eleven's just another person, but I-- I was really upset, and then just like-- It was hard, so I was I was very-- It was a very hard episode.
You are such a fiddler.
I was gonna, like-- [all laughing.]
- I have a die as well.
- You've been doing it as well.
- He is a mini Duffer.
- [Jim.]
She is telling us about a very traumatic moment.
- You're there, like - Is it my roll? You might as well be going, "Doo-doo-doo-doo-doo.
" Take us there.
What was the emotional thing? - Is it the connection you had to Eleven? - With Papa.
- And Papa.
Yes, that moment.
- Yeah.
And that moment is, I'd say-- I didn't realize it was that harrowing, but even the first time we kind of watched it Modine coming in, and Brenner suddenly being back, it's really disturbing, but in the best Stranger Things -y kind of way.
[Jim.]
Palpable stuff is leading her to her big finale, which is the closing of the gate.
It goes all the way back to harnessing "anger.
" She obviously-- But I did do that.
Like, I-- - Pulling all of that.
- I pulled vomit.
I was very nauseous on that-- the thing.
Like, it came-- - [Matt.]
Oh, yeah.
- [Shawn.]
You pulled vomit out--? The anger and vomit as well.
You remember, like, I was so nauseous? It was really up in the air and it was really swaying.
[Millie.]
It was so swaying.
- [Shawn.]
"Pulled vomit"? - [Millie.]
We was on-- It's a suspended platform.
There's not a sexy name for it.
[Millie.]
It came-- It was up, and it was swaying.
And I had to, like-- I was like, "Get me down.
" I had to sit outside.
I was so nauseous.
Thanks to you, I think anyone who acts will always say, "Would you like me to pull up some vomit?" - [Shawn laughing.]
- What does that mean? [Shawn.]
All I know is now it's a thing.
- A Millie Bobby Brown acting technique.
- [Millie.]
I was nauseous.
I think as directors, next we go, "Can we pull up some vomit?" To your actors, and see what they do.
- And on that note - [Jim.]
On that note, I have to-- I could talk-- We could talk forever.
Thanks for sitting down - and starting this conversation with me.
- Of course.
Thank you.
Not only are we gonna keep the conversation going with a new panel, but you don't have to wait.
The next Beyond Stranger Things is starting any moment now.
Yes, I'll be wearing the same clothes, so don't judge.
[Matt.]
Thank you.
Oh, thank you.
- I really pulled up some vomit.
- [Millie laughing.]
[theme music playing.]