The Disappearance of Natalee Holloway (2017) s01e01 Episode Script
New Lead
1 [DARK MYSTICAL MUSIC.]
I never dreamed that 12 years and we still have nothing until now.
[TENSE MUSIC.]
Okay, today is Sunday, 1/26/2017.
I'm here with, um, John Ludwick.
My name's TJ Ward.
I'm a licensed private investigator.
I've been hired by the Holloway family and been working on this case for 12 years.
Mm-hmm.
How long have you known Joran van der Sloot? Since 2010, when he moved back to Aruba.
At what point in time did he ask you about doing something with the remains of Natalee Holloway? It's not something I could pick pinpoint.
Listen to me, John, okay? I know that you know.
- Yeah.
- Okay, tell me the truth.
Did you go by yourself? Did he go with you to dig her remains up? Yes.
Did you do something with the remains? - Yeah.
- And what did you do? Um Tell me the truth.
Uh [EERIE MYSTICAL MUSIC.]
[LIGHT PIANO MUSIC.]
My name is Dave Holloway.
My daughter is Natalee Holloway.
She went missing in Aruba in May 2005.
You couldn't ask for a better kid than Natalee.
She was my firstborn, always respectful, straight-A student, and just one of those model kids.
The last time I saw Natalee was at her high school graduation.
I was there with my current wife.
Robin and my ex-wife, Natalee's mother Beth.
When everything was over with, I said, "Well, let's We need to get a photo, you know, of Natalee, you know, graduation picture.
" And that's the last picture and the last time I spoke with her.
[LIGHT MUSIC.]
I'm going to get some eggs going.
Put sauce.
Top it with cheese and pepperonis.
She's gonna show us what makes the final finishing touch and makes it so good.
It's a little bit of Parmesan cheese.
Where is the Parmesan cheese? It's a big green jar in there.
[LAUGHS.]
I don't see it.
Look straight ahead.
Watching all these tapes of Natalee when she was younger, and you're happy that she was happy at the time, but then again, you know, you you just get a sinking feeling and feel sorry for her, and it's tough.
You've got yourself a good lunch.
And, Daddy You know, she studied so hard in school and had a scholarship at Alabama to be a medical doctor and was ready to go forward with her life.
Golly, and then five days later, gone.
You know, all of that was just cut out.
The worst thing you can do is lose a child.
I think about her every day.
[MYSTICAL MUSIC.]
Sometime in I guess February 2005, Natalee called me and said, "Dad, I need you to pay half of my trip to Aruba.
" So I went ahead and gave her a check, and they were booked at the Holiday Inn right on the beach.
What I didn't realize was that the drinking age in Aruba is 18, so it was a big party from what I understand.
So on the last day, I was told, a bunch of classmates decided to go to Carlos'N Charlie's, one of these big bars where they have a band and play music.
When the club closed down, at, say, 1:00, some of the group was gonna go to another bar, and Natalee got in the car with three local boys.
One of the kids said, "Natalee, get out of the car," and I think she thought that she was going back to the hotel.
And that is the last piece of the story that is verified to be true.
On the very next day, it was determined at 11:00 that where is Natalee? And everyone started panicking and that Natalee missed her flight, and that's all they knew.
So I booked a flight to Aruba right away.
The news media picked up on the story almost immediately, and within days, the island was overrun with cameras and media.
18-year-old Natalee Holloway was with about 125 graduating seniors and adults on a five-day trip.
Family members are helping in the search.
Suspicions fall on three young men she's seen leaving the nightclub with, two brothers and a Dutch national, the son of a judge, 17-year-old Joran van der Sloot.
Oh, and, of course, when I get down there, I scramble around.
We try to find the nearest police station, and I want to know what's going on.
And the first thing that came out of the police officer's mouth was, "Oh, she'll show up in a few days.
" "That's usually what happens around here.
She'll show up.
" But I knew something's not right.
That interview that the three suspects, which is Deepak, Satish, and Joran, and they said the route they took was around the lighthouse and then they came back and dropped her off in the lobby at the Holiday Inn.
The surveillance footage of the Holiday Inn was viewed, and we found out that she did not return to the hotel.
Then after I read the police reports, what disturbed me was the fact that when they interviewed these three suspects, Deepak, Satish, and Joran, they couldn't get their story straight.
So well that tells you right there that they're the suspects.
Any detective worth his salt would have broken those three kids.
No one knew where Natalee was, and I knew that we were gonna have to search for her ourselves.
It was very stressful.
But luckily, the media stayed by our side, which brought in a lot of volunteers that wanted to help.
Search some of these dunes and some of these low areas in case they just dropped Natalee off.
I understand that there are hundreds of tourists and police looking for her.
It's 6 miles across, under 20 miles long.
They are just going door-to-door, handing out posters, going to anybody and everybody that they can talk to to see if they have seen this young lady.
We ended up, the time I was there, searching the entire island.
[HORN HONKS.]
We're about 18 days in the investigation, and they finally arrested Joran and Deepak and Satish.
And why would you wait 18 days to arrest your primary suspects? The more Aruba police tripped up and made obvious mistakes, the more the national media seized on it, and it eventually became a nightly broadcast from Aruba on what was going on that day, and more and more things started coming up that just didn't sound right.
Why haven't authorities been able to get to the bottom of the story? Frankly, the real problem here, Hannah, is that they were allowed to be free for some 18 days.
That gave them an awful lot of time to talk to Joran's father, a judge-to-be, and get their story straight to some extent, literally be able to go to the police with something that gave them cover, because he knows that he ultimately will be released if there's no body found.
While Joran van der Sloot was locked up, numerous tips and leads start coming in, and the news media was there to cover all of it.
Searchers are still keeping an eye out for a sneaker.
A witness claims lead suspect Joran van der.
Sloot was missing one the night he supposedly walked out of this pond covered in mud.
Dutch authorities and the FBI are testing a shred of duct tape with long, blonde hairs attached found along a remote beach in a national park.
DNA test results show that blonde hair did not come from Natalee Holloway.
Teams of searchers have come down here to spend long days working at the local landfill.
There was a low point, a very, very low point, having to dig for your daughter in a garbage dump.
Joran van der Sloot's father, Paul van der Sloot, was a judge in training on an island of 100,000 people.
The police commissioner is the godfather of Joran van der.
Sloot and best friends with Paulus van der Sloot, so you know, what does that tell you? Their thought pattern is, "Is this is gonna" reel in our tourism if we find a dead body on the island, and so essentially it appeared to be a cover-up from the beginning, but the media did not buy it.
Are they doing anything to investigate this case as far as you can see? As far as we can see in Aruba, absolutely nothing.
They want this case to go away at all costs.
They don't want to do anything.
They're not doing anything, and they're just hoping that it will go away.
Down there, they if they suspect that you're a part of a crime, it's up to the prosecutor to gather additional information.
If they don't, then they're set free, and no new evidence was presented, so on September the 3rd, 2005, they let him go.
Joran was the last person seen with my daughter.
He knows what happened, and now he's free and clear.
I mean, I was beat down, but you know, there's nothing I could do about it.
Over the last 12 years, we've gone on a lot of these leads.
"She's in the ocean, she's on the land," "she's in the sex trade," she's here, she's there, she's in a grave.
You know I can't stop searching for Natalee.
There's a lot of times over the years where sunglasses were my best friend, and you know, to hide the tears that were running down your face, so I started having panic attacks, and the attacks became so bad I thought I was gonna have a heart attack.
Sometimes you lose it, and you start just digging in a sand dune or, "Let's look in this hole," you know, knowing that there's nothing there, you know, but "Let's do it.
" [GENTLE PIANO MUSIC.]
So Sometime in September of 2015, a man named Gabriel called me at my office and said, "I'm living with this guy who lived with Joran van der Sloot.
"He knows a lot about the case, "more than most people know, and he knows where Natalee's remains are.
" And I thought, "Oh, my gosh, this could be it.
We could finally get justice for Natalee.
" The more I think about this new lead, it brings up the memories of all the old leads, and none of them have panned out.
Even after Joran was released, the media didn't give up, and neither did we, and, you know, we've got to follow all leads and we do.
A sonar-equipped ship is searching the Aruban waters for any signs of Natalee Holloway.
Well, they found something, a piece of fabric inside a crab trap.
The FBI laboratory in the United States tested the fabric to see if it matched Natalee Holloway's blouse, but they say it's not a match.
Divers will search the area where a photograph was taken last fall that may show human remains.
Officials in Aruba say a jawbone discovered on a beach does not belong to the missing Alabama teenager.
We searched the entire island and we found nothing.
Back in 2010, early February, Paulus van der Sloot had passed away with a heart attack.
The news media started the question how it would affect the investigation.
What's your reaction to the news that Daddy van der.
Sloot is dead, collapsing on a resort's tennis court? Police initially believed that he may have been involved in the cover-up.
So Joran did not have that support that he once had.
His father protected him throughout all this time, but after he died of a heart attack, Joran, with the use of drugs and alcohol and the partying, he was kind of out of control.
But soon after that, Joran contacted Beth's attorney in New York and had indicated that for $250,000 he was willing to show them where Natalee was buried.
This is without a doubt among the cruelest, most sickening of schemes.
Joran van der Sloot trying to profit from a mother's grief.
He gave an agent posing as a family representative a location that later turned out to be false.
He has since been indicted on extortion and wire fraud.
He used that money to fund his trip to Peru.
He was there about three weeks, blew blew all of his money, and five years to the day that Natalee went missing, Joran was back in the news having murdered Stephany Flores in Peru.
Breaking news out of Lima, Peru, where police say Joran van der Sloot has confessed to killing a woman there last week reportedly after she looked up information on his computer about Natalee Holloway.
When I first heard about Stephany Flores' murder, I thought to myself, "I knew he was gonna do this again," and I'm not the one who points fingers and the blame game and stuff, but, you know, Aruba had their shot.
They had an opportunity to arrest him right after the extortion money, and then he fled the island and now he's murdered another girl.
After Paulus died of heart attack, Joran relied on this guy by the name of John Ludwick as his main source of support.
He even appeared on the Nancy Grace show defending Joran after he killed Stephany Flores.
Joining us right now, special guest John Ludwick.
You're a friend of Joran van der Sloot's.
Are you surprised that he's actually plead guilty to murder? Well, he really didn't have a choice in this situation.
He obviously murdered her; We're just hoping for the best.
Hopefully he gets out in ten years or less.
This guy Gabriel contacted me a few months back and indicated that he knew a guy by the name of John who had some information that he knows where Natalee's remains are.
The fact that all the other leads were based on theories or speculation, this lead, we have a person who states that he was directly involved with Joran van der.
Sloot in disposing of Natalee's remains.
And I thought, "You know, there may be something to this.
" And so I picked up the phone, and I called TJ.
My name's TJ Ward.
I'm a licensed private investigator here in the state of Georgia, and I've been doing it for 36 years.
In July of 2005, I commenced an investigation after being hired by the Holloway family to try to find their daughter, Natalee Holloway.
This is not a traffic ticket.
This is a criminal investigation which will probably lead to murder, And we are still gathering information and we will turn it over to the family and to law enforcement accordingly.
I haven't stopped working on it for going on 12 years now, and I won't give up.
Dave Holloway is family to me, and I would do anything for him.
I have a picture on my wall in my office of Natalee Holloway.
I put it up when I got it in 2005, and it will remain there until the resolution of this case.
Natalee's personal to me.
I have put all my heart into trying to bring closure with a family who's lost their daughter.
Here we are, headed to Tampa which is where TJ Ward, the special investigator, is located.
He's always been involved in Natalee's case and we've worked about A number of leads together, and hopefully this will be the last one, so Dave was contacted by an individual named Gabriel.
Gabriel had an individual that he had a relationship with named John Ludwick.
I have I know John Ludwick through another friend that Just somebody I kind of bumped into him, 'cause I play a lot of poker.
We started gathering information from Gabriel about John Ludwick, and we know he was in Aruba in 2010.
I've seen his passport.
We've confirmed he's had a relationship with with van der Sloot and Gabriel wants some closure brought to Dave Holloway and his family.
I'm willing to help to to give Dave and his ex-wife Do you believe the information he's told you is truthful? It's 100%.
Well, I've been in a cold sweat, ehm for the last few days.
Ever since we developed this lead, I I look back on numerous, numerous failures on leads that just didn't pan out.
Well, emotionally, you're just flat on your back.
Back in 2007, my theory was that Natalee was in a crab trap.
When we did the boat search and did six weeks of searching, identified all those traps and they found one that appeared to have a body in it.
And I'll never forget, it was right during the holidays, maybe after Christmas.
We received a call that, "Look, I think we found Natalee.
" You know, and it was kind of a relief but then it was, you know, it was time to grieve, you know, and later on that evening, after they checked it, they called back and apologized and said that, "We've made a mistake.
" [GENTLE PIANO MUSIC.]
To go through that traumatic process was just it'll kill you, you know? I was able to pull myself together and it it continued to hurt my wife for a while.
When you see your wife crying for weeks and weeks and weeks, you tell yourself then that it's not gonna happen again.
I'm not going to get my family involved and get their hopes up high and knowing that we're going to have to develop this thing for months, and, you know, and I finally decided, I said, "TJ," I said, "If anyone takes the fall, it's gonna be me, and that's it," so I need to continue searching, and I don't know, you just can't quit.
You just can't sleep at night knowing that you've got a valid lead out here and it's got to be checked out.
We've chased a lot A lot of leads, and this one is by far the most credible lead that I've seen in the last 12 years.
[THUNDER BOOMING.]
I came to Tampa, Florida, which is a location close to where Gabriel lives.
We felt like it was time to meet him face to face.
We just want to sit down with him and get the full story and find out exactly what he has to say.
This latest lead, you know, I I looked at it, and I looked at it with apprehension because I had to just get in my mind that there's got to be some evidence before I can jump in all in.
But I just had to go and check it out so that five years from now I can lay my head on the pillow and not think about, "Well, should I have gone down there or not?" We've had help from a credible witness, and then tomorrow you're gonna see the real story.
You still feel good about him - as being a witness? - I really do.
You know, I've been on constant contact with Gabriel, and he's been very, very loyal to me.
I've built a relationship with him; He trusts me.
I trust him, and he's gathered a lot of information.
Couple things that I I think we really need to hit on is obviously the story.
Well, I'll be happy to show you the interview.
I believe the information that John told Gabriel's true.
He stuck with his story about what transpired.
There's too much detail not to look into it.
This is with Gabriel and me.
This was done several months ago.
Today is May 29, 2016.
How do you know John Ludwick? I know John Ludwick through another friend.
"One day he goes," Hey, you know what? I want to get something off my chest.
" He goes, "You ever see me on TV?" I go, "Nope.
" "Do you know the Natalee Holloway case and blah, blah, blah?" And I say, "Yes, I do know.
" "You know who this guy is, van der Sloot?" "Nope.
" You're talking about Joran van der Sloot? He's Joran van der Sloot.
John, he told me, goes to Aruba and he bumped into him somehow.
Van der Sloot.
And then they start hanging.
Every single day, every night.
One day he spilled all the beans right there and then.
"Tells him," Look, when Natalee that night "that she went to the beach with me, "she start foaming at the mouth.
I couldn't wake her up.
" - God - "I tried, I tried.
I tried.
" As I was holding her, and I got freaked out.
I called my dad.
Then him and his dad van der Sloot, and his dad Buried the body and [EERIE MUSIC.]
And John goes, "Well, okay, so what's going on?" And then van der Sloot goes, "I'm scared.
I'm scared they're gonna find it.
" "So what do you want me to do?" "He goes," Look, I'll pay you $1,500 if you go and dig the body up.
" "I'm gonna take you tomorrow.
"We're gonna go ahead, and we're gonna show you exactly where the body's at.
" So John goes, "Okay, I'll help you, man.
You know, I'll be there for you.
" He uncovered the body in the national forest.
Dug it up, and then he took it to the morgue.
Body got cremated and then threw it in the ocean, low tide.
That's what John told me.
Whew.
From what he's saying, John Ludwick was involved with Joran van der Sloot in 2010 and had knowledge to your daughter's remains.
He didn't bring it to light, and he covered for van der Sloot, so he's a party to the crime.
And we've confirmed with documents from his passport - Yeah, okay.
- That he was in Aruba at the time that all this was supposed to have transpired.
I can tell you from my experience in law enforcement over 40 years, this guy's ruthless.
- - I got you.
- And Gabriel has stuck with him, so we wouldn't lose what's going on here.
Yeah.
Is Gabriel still with us? Yes, Gabriel's still on board, and you and him are gonna talk.
I'd be glad to meet him.
I just want to meet up with him, see if I can size him up, and He will be there at 12:30 tomorrow - 12:30, okay.
- To meet you.
Okay.
Am I nervous about meeting Gabriel? I I'm excited about meeting Gabriel because I want to make sure that what he's saying is what we've been hearing the last couple of weeks.
I don't know if I could handle if I found out that this was all a hoax.
I'm anxious to meet with Gabriel and And go over the story and ask him quite a few questions about John and how he feels about the this whole ordeal.
I've still got a little bit of reservations, but if he shows up I think we're really on to something.
Ready to get it over with.
He should be here any minute.
I've got knots in my stomach.
I I think this will be a good thing for you after you meet him.
I think he's willing to work with us to build the evidence for us to turn it over to the government to bring charges against the individuals responsible - for your daughter's death.
- Yes.
I never dreamed it would be 12 years.
I always thought that it would be just right around the corner and I Well, I didn't either.
There's been a lot of lies and a lot of stories but we're down to the moment Yep, this is the big turning point here.
He's not here yet, but I'll send him a message and see if he's close.
He's got the address, right? Whew.
- Nervous.
- [PRODUCER.]
You look nervous.
- Huh? - You look nervous.
I am nervous.
Minutes seem like hours.
He should have been here by now.
Oh, boy.
Whew.
- Nervous.
- [PRODUCER.]
You look nervous.
- Huh? - You look nervous.
I am nervous.
Minutes seem like hours.
Oh, boy.
[CELL PHONE CHIMING.]
Hey.
Just hold on one second.
[PRODUCER.]
How are you feeling? I'm relieved that he's here.
Gosh.
I'll tell you, at first I thought, "Man, he's not showing up.
He's pulling a string on us.
" Now that he's showed up I'm very relieved.
I'm a father of two daughters.
I feel obligated to solve this.
I want to help.
So, John, how long did you know him before he started opening up? I will say about 3 1/2 years, almost 4 years.
- Wow.
- Yeah.
But I wasn't sure at the beginning, but then he started getting more into detail and telling me more further, further, further.
Well, just start from the beginning and just lead me through.
I've heard bits and pieces, but Um, he told me that he went to Aruba 'cause he has an aunt living there.
- Right.
- So then in 2010, he meets van der Sloot in he said January, February.
So he was walking in the store, and he bumps into van der Sloot, and then he goes, "Oh, my God, you know, I see you on TV, blah blah blah, you know, I would like to be your friend.
" And then they start partying.
So as van der Sloot is getting more comfortable and more comfortable with him, he starts opening up to John.
Uh, John said that he went ahead and told him what happened to Natalee.
He goes, "Well, the night that she died," van der Sloot says, "We got a ride.
" They dropped us off.
We walked down the hotel.
" He just said the hotel, the Marriott Hotel, something like that.
"We walked under there's a sidewalk all the way down" and it goes to the beach.
"And so we walked down there" So so Deepak and Satish, they dropped him off right there that road that leads between the Marriott.
- Yeah.
- Okay.
When he mentioned that, it was kind of strange.
Most people think she was dropped off at the fishermen's hut.
Everyone kind of agreed to that story, but I knew that they actually dropped them off at the road right beside the Marriott Hotel.
John said that van der Sloot goes, "We walked down there, and we "I took two drinks.
"I told the bartender, 'Give me two drinks.
' So 'but fix it good.
'" Joran van der Sloot admits that he served Natalee a drink and I think it was was a spiked drink with GHB which is a date rape drug.
So then they go down the beach.
Van der Sloot said that as he was trying to kiss her, she starts foaming at the mouth 'cause she was overdosing.
He panicked.
He didn't even put her on her side, roll her over or nothing.
She actually choked on her own vomit.
I if she died on her own, why didn't he just say it was an accident? Because he got scared.
Well, he may have, uh they may have found GHB.
- Yeah.
- That that's the reason.
Yeah, 'cause that's what they were doing to all the girls.
You know? He panics, he calls his dad.
His dad comes.
He's very pissed off.
He looks at her.
He goes, "Oh, my God.
She's dead.
" And he goes, "All right, wait here.
" I'm going back to the house.
" He goes and picks up a burlap.
He comes back and then he goes, "It doesn't fit here.
" So then he stomps on her legs, cracks her legs, puts her in the burlap I know this is really hard, puts her in the burlap, and actually folds her over like this.
- And this is Paulus? - Yes.
So then they grab her, put her in the back of his car, and they drive to the park, and they pick the spot, digs a hole, puts her in, covers her up, and his dad goes, "Grab that cactus" and that will just cover everything up.
" And his dad goes, "Don't you ever tell nobody.
Nobody.
" But he told John.
So they took up that very first night, they took care of everything.
Mm-hmm.
She died, within two, three hours, they buried her.
When he mentioned that Paulus van der Sloot dismembered my daughter so that she would fit in a burlap sack, man, my heart just sunk.
It's like taking that wound and cutting it back open.
One day van der Sloot says, "Look, John, "you know, I'm in deep trouble.
"They're gonna find the body.
Can you help me out?" And what made him think that? Because you guys were getting close.
All the searches 'cause you guys didn't stop, and van der Sloot said look, "I'm gonna give you $1,500 to move the body.
"I'm gonna write up a little map and I'm gonna tell you where it's at.
" So then John goes the following night and he said it was only like, three feet down.
I finally seen the little head of the burlap.
I pulled it out and it had this decayed smell.
I said, "So what did you do?" He goes, "Well, I went ahead and opened the bag" when I put it inside my aunt's car.
" So he puts it in the back, put the bones He opens the bag, he goes, "You know, all the bones were just brown-ish, moldy," and there was two inches of just black, like, lard from the body when it decays on the bottom of the burlap, and her hair was there, blonde hair, and all the bones.
So then van der Sloot had a connection that his dad had at the morgue, so then John goes ahead and takes it and the body got cremated, everything in there got cremated, so he picks up all the ashes and he goes back to van der Sloot.
They go and it was low tide, and they just spread it.
So the only thing you have now is where the burlap came out.
- There's DNA evidence still - Correct.
There should be DNA evidence at the grave in the national forest and the aunt's car.
If what he says is true, there would still be some DNA recoverable evidence.
Yeah, you know, you always still have your guard up.
There's no doubt about that.
I won't ever let it down until we actually go to the grave site, but the final thing that's gonna finally make me believe that this was all real is, is, we find the spot and we find some DNA.
So they could check that car, take the carpet out and test it for her DNA and then go back where Where they buried her, so Well, man, let me ask you this.
John inserted himself into this investigation.
How confident are you that he's just not making all this up? Because there's no way possible somebody could make up stuff with so much detail.
When you meet this guy, you're gonna know what I'm talking about.
He is heartless.
Like, he there is no life in him.
I said, "Well, why don't you come clean?" He goes, "I would never come clean.
" Van der Sloot was my best friend.
" I'm like, "Okay, whatever.
" It's just hard to understand him.
So you're 100%, no questions about it that he says What he says is true.
I'm 100%.
This is 100%.
So you're 100%, no questions about it that he says What he says is true.
I'm 100%.
There was police officials.
There was judges, Everybody who owns a little bit of the island had a part of this.
So so Deepak and Satish, ones who were driving the car, any involvement on them? - No.
- What about police officers? Any name any names? No.
He says the police officers there are crooked, very crooked, and he says they had to do a lot to covering it up, to save van der Sloot's dad.
So whatever they could do to help him they did.
But the mistake was that van der Sloot did what his dad said, never tell.
Never tell nobody.
He told John.
Let let's just say that this all rolls out as planned and there's some DNA extracted.
Then John goes to jail for a number of years.
- Mm-hmm.
- You think he'd ever try to retaliate against you or anyone else? I know he'll try to come back to me, 'cause he said, "If anybody ever backstabs me, I will kill 'em.
" So that that kept in my head, you know? - Mm-hmm.
- Like, okay, when this goes down, he's gonna hate me, but when he does get out, he's gonna try to find me.
I ain't scared, you know? Some of the things I've heard about John is, you know, this guy has some mental issues.
He appears to me to be a psychopath, and then the fact that he would actually go to a gravesite to dig up the remains on his own just to help a friend disturbs me as well and I need to know if John's story is credible enough to go through all of this again.
Well, that was a big test for me today 'cause I know that you wouldn't put your reputation online if you didn't think this was the truth, and you wouldn't allow yourself to be displayed as someone that is trying to con somebody.
What they did is very wrong, you know? And I have two daughters and you you went through hell.
And I have said, "Well, I'm gonna do" whatever I have to do, - Mm-hmm.
- to get this guy.
" I'm trying to work up some doubt just that John dreamed all this up in his mind and believes it to be true.
I'll just have to think about it for a while, and and determine if it's even worth pursuing.
What concerns me is he knows information that is not known to the public.
He knew that Natalee was dropped off on the road next to the Marriott Hotel rather than the fishermen's huts where everyone thinks that she was located.
It leaves me with very little doubt that he may be involved in removing Natalee's remains.
So, how'd it go? He had a lot more details than what I've heard in the other recordings, and - Mm.
- Well, let me ask you this.
What do you know about the drop-off point where Deepak and Sateesh dropped off Joran and Natalee? You're talking about on the beach? - Yeah.
- Behind the fishermen's hut? - Yeah.
- Okay.
Is that is that I mean, is that the story, - that's out there? - That's consistent with what I have.
Okay, well, back in 2005 when Deepak and Satish were considered a suspect, I ended up meeting one of the lawyers so that I could he could discuss the case with me because he felt like Deepak and Satish were innocent and he told me that Deepak and Satish said that they dropped Natalee off at the little road right beside the Marriott Hotel all the way down the MooMba Beach.
- Okay.
- All right, no one knows that except for me and and the lawyer.
And I didn't really think much about it and it never gained any traction because everybody said the fishermen's hut.
The story was that they dropped 'em off where the fishermen's hut was.
Well, Gabriel mentions in the interview that Joran and Natalee were dropped off on that road that leads to the MooMba Beach.
Well, that's interesting.
But I'm thinking, "Well, John wouldn't have known" "that unless Joran told him.
There's no way.
" So I didn't even know it.
Yeah, well, no one really knew it except for me.
[TENSE MUSIC.]
After I met with Gabriel, I went back to my hotel room to do some research on this guy John Ludwick.
Gabriel had sent me a bunch of videos that he had filmed of John at their home to document the story, of what John has told a number of times.
I came here to meet this nutcase.
He's going crazy.
In one of them, it shows John watching a rerun of an interview he did on Nancy Grace show talking about his friendship with Joran van der Sloot and I couldn't believe my eyes.
John, what are you watching? One of my prouder moments of my past.
Oh, there you are.
Joining us right now, special guest John Ludwick.
You're a friend of Joran van der Sloot's.
Are you surprised that he's actually pled guilty to murder? Well, he really didn't have a choice in this situation.
So I was just told.
We had a great time in Aruba.
We used to party there after the Natalee stuff ended and before the Stephany case began and it was a great time in my life.
But she f ed his life up.
Oh, if she got the email and figured out he was involved in Natalee's stuff she should have just immediately left the room - and not confronted him.
- No, no, but how did that provoke him? I just f ing said it.
She finds out he's involved by some goddamn email she claims and f ing stays there and slaps him around? How dare she put her hands on him to make him even take it to that level? Yeah, we're just hoping for the best.
Hopefully he gets out in ten years or less.
He used powerful force to murder a defenseless woman and you're saying you hope for the best? This bitch should re Oh, man.
She should rot in her grave over what she did to my guy, putting him in jail for all these years.
I should piss on her f ing grave for that sh Sir, you know what? Cut his mic.
Take him off the screen.
I don't want to look at him anymore.
Oh, boy, that was sick.
Even joking about something like that is just unbelievable to me.
I I would think that To watch his own video and and see it on "Nancy Grace" and then re-running it and trashing a human that's lost their life is that that's just perverted sick.
After you see that and he And Joran gives him instructions to go do something, yeah, he'll do it in a minute.
And now he's saying he did something to Natalee and he knows where she is.
And, you know, it's my goal to find her.
And I only could come up with really one big con, and that would be [JOHN.]
Then I sound crazy.
That John is apparently mental [JOHN.]
How dare she put her hands on him? And wants to be involved in the case and may have hallucinated this whole thing.
But I can throw it back at you saying that the intricate details are such that, you know, you can't possibly dream this up.
[JOHN.]
She should rot in her grave.
You just can't sleep at night knowing that if I have a lead, I've got to pursue it.
I need to get justice for Natalee.
That's been my goal from the very beginning.
We've got to move forward.
He'll come after Gabriel.
I guarantee you.
Yeah, I'll I'll be ready.
12 years and we still have nothing until now.
This guy stated he committed a crime and I want him locked up for what he did.
I'm wiring the room to be used for law enforcement.
She died, within two, three hours, they buried her.
That's where the fucking shit was hidden.
This could be it.
We're putting the puzzle together for them, and they're not using it and I don't know why.
What the heck is going on here? Nothing that John said could have been collaborated.
- He's telling the truth.
- He's not telling the truth.
There's always been a friction between John and Gabriel and here we have Gabriel ready to throw in the towel.
- I quit! (BLEEP).
- He is so full of sh I don't think they'll let this slip away.
- Do you? - No.
This one is by far the most credible lead that I've seen in the last 12 years.
We need to get to the scene.
Let's go.
Let's go.
Let's go.
This is the moment of truth right here.
Her body was right here.
For more information on.
"The Disappearance of Natalee Holloway," go to: oxygen.
com [LAUGHTER.]
[BELL DINGS.]
I never dreamed that 12 years and we still have nothing until now.
[TENSE MUSIC.]
Okay, today is Sunday, 1/26/2017.
I'm here with, um, John Ludwick.
My name's TJ Ward.
I'm a licensed private investigator.
I've been hired by the Holloway family and been working on this case for 12 years.
Mm-hmm.
How long have you known Joran van der Sloot? Since 2010, when he moved back to Aruba.
At what point in time did he ask you about doing something with the remains of Natalee Holloway? It's not something I could pick pinpoint.
Listen to me, John, okay? I know that you know.
- Yeah.
- Okay, tell me the truth.
Did you go by yourself? Did he go with you to dig her remains up? Yes.
Did you do something with the remains? - Yeah.
- And what did you do? Um Tell me the truth.
Uh [EERIE MYSTICAL MUSIC.]
[LIGHT PIANO MUSIC.]
My name is Dave Holloway.
My daughter is Natalee Holloway.
She went missing in Aruba in May 2005.
You couldn't ask for a better kid than Natalee.
She was my firstborn, always respectful, straight-A student, and just one of those model kids.
The last time I saw Natalee was at her high school graduation.
I was there with my current wife.
Robin and my ex-wife, Natalee's mother Beth.
When everything was over with, I said, "Well, let's We need to get a photo, you know, of Natalee, you know, graduation picture.
" And that's the last picture and the last time I spoke with her.
[LIGHT MUSIC.]
I'm going to get some eggs going.
Put sauce.
Top it with cheese and pepperonis.
She's gonna show us what makes the final finishing touch and makes it so good.
It's a little bit of Parmesan cheese.
Where is the Parmesan cheese? It's a big green jar in there.
[LAUGHS.]
I don't see it.
Look straight ahead.
Watching all these tapes of Natalee when she was younger, and you're happy that she was happy at the time, but then again, you know, you you just get a sinking feeling and feel sorry for her, and it's tough.
You've got yourself a good lunch.
And, Daddy You know, she studied so hard in school and had a scholarship at Alabama to be a medical doctor and was ready to go forward with her life.
Golly, and then five days later, gone.
You know, all of that was just cut out.
The worst thing you can do is lose a child.
I think about her every day.
[MYSTICAL MUSIC.]
Sometime in I guess February 2005, Natalee called me and said, "Dad, I need you to pay half of my trip to Aruba.
" So I went ahead and gave her a check, and they were booked at the Holiday Inn right on the beach.
What I didn't realize was that the drinking age in Aruba is 18, so it was a big party from what I understand.
So on the last day, I was told, a bunch of classmates decided to go to Carlos'N Charlie's, one of these big bars where they have a band and play music.
When the club closed down, at, say, 1:00, some of the group was gonna go to another bar, and Natalee got in the car with three local boys.
One of the kids said, "Natalee, get out of the car," and I think she thought that she was going back to the hotel.
And that is the last piece of the story that is verified to be true.
On the very next day, it was determined at 11:00 that where is Natalee? And everyone started panicking and that Natalee missed her flight, and that's all they knew.
So I booked a flight to Aruba right away.
The news media picked up on the story almost immediately, and within days, the island was overrun with cameras and media.
18-year-old Natalee Holloway was with about 125 graduating seniors and adults on a five-day trip.
Family members are helping in the search.
Suspicions fall on three young men she's seen leaving the nightclub with, two brothers and a Dutch national, the son of a judge, 17-year-old Joran van der Sloot.
Oh, and, of course, when I get down there, I scramble around.
We try to find the nearest police station, and I want to know what's going on.
And the first thing that came out of the police officer's mouth was, "Oh, she'll show up in a few days.
" "That's usually what happens around here.
She'll show up.
" But I knew something's not right.
That interview that the three suspects, which is Deepak, Satish, and Joran, and they said the route they took was around the lighthouse and then they came back and dropped her off in the lobby at the Holiday Inn.
The surveillance footage of the Holiday Inn was viewed, and we found out that she did not return to the hotel.
Then after I read the police reports, what disturbed me was the fact that when they interviewed these three suspects, Deepak, Satish, and Joran, they couldn't get their story straight.
So well that tells you right there that they're the suspects.
Any detective worth his salt would have broken those three kids.
No one knew where Natalee was, and I knew that we were gonna have to search for her ourselves.
It was very stressful.
But luckily, the media stayed by our side, which brought in a lot of volunteers that wanted to help.
Search some of these dunes and some of these low areas in case they just dropped Natalee off.
I understand that there are hundreds of tourists and police looking for her.
It's 6 miles across, under 20 miles long.
They are just going door-to-door, handing out posters, going to anybody and everybody that they can talk to to see if they have seen this young lady.
We ended up, the time I was there, searching the entire island.
[HORN HONKS.]
We're about 18 days in the investigation, and they finally arrested Joran and Deepak and Satish.
And why would you wait 18 days to arrest your primary suspects? The more Aruba police tripped up and made obvious mistakes, the more the national media seized on it, and it eventually became a nightly broadcast from Aruba on what was going on that day, and more and more things started coming up that just didn't sound right.
Why haven't authorities been able to get to the bottom of the story? Frankly, the real problem here, Hannah, is that they were allowed to be free for some 18 days.
That gave them an awful lot of time to talk to Joran's father, a judge-to-be, and get their story straight to some extent, literally be able to go to the police with something that gave them cover, because he knows that he ultimately will be released if there's no body found.
While Joran van der Sloot was locked up, numerous tips and leads start coming in, and the news media was there to cover all of it.
Searchers are still keeping an eye out for a sneaker.
A witness claims lead suspect Joran van der.
Sloot was missing one the night he supposedly walked out of this pond covered in mud.
Dutch authorities and the FBI are testing a shred of duct tape with long, blonde hairs attached found along a remote beach in a national park.
DNA test results show that blonde hair did not come from Natalee Holloway.
Teams of searchers have come down here to spend long days working at the local landfill.
There was a low point, a very, very low point, having to dig for your daughter in a garbage dump.
Joran van der Sloot's father, Paul van der Sloot, was a judge in training on an island of 100,000 people.
The police commissioner is the godfather of Joran van der.
Sloot and best friends with Paulus van der Sloot, so you know, what does that tell you? Their thought pattern is, "Is this is gonna" reel in our tourism if we find a dead body on the island, and so essentially it appeared to be a cover-up from the beginning, but the media did not buy it.
Are they doing anything to investigate this case as far as you can see? As far as we can see in Aruba, absolutely nothing.
They want this case to go away at all costs.
They don't want to do anything.
They're not doing anything, and they're just hoping that it will go away.
Down there, they if they suspect that you're a part of a crime, it's up to the prosecutor to gather additional information.
If they don't, then they're set free, and no new evidence was presented, so on September the 3rd, 2005, they let him go.
Joran was the last person seen with my daughter.
He knows what happened, and now he's free and clear.
I mean, I was beat down, but you know, there's nothing I could do about it.
Over the last 12 years, we've gone on a lot of these leads.
"She's in the ocean, she's on the land," "she's in the sex trade," she's here, she's there, she's in a grave.
You know I can't stop searching for Natalee.
There's a lot of times over the years where sunglasses were my best friend, and you know, to hide the tears that were running down your face, so I started having panic attacks, and the attacks became so bad I thought I was gonna have a heart attack.
Sometimes you lose it, and you start just digging in a sand dune or, "Let's look in this hole," you know, knowing that there's nothing there, you know, but "Let's do it.
" [GENTLE PIANO MUSIC.]
So Sometime in September of 2015, a man named Gabriel called me at my office and said, "I'm living with this guy who lived with Joran van der Sloot.
"He knows a lot about the case, "more than most people know, and he knows where Natalee's remains are.
" And I thought, "Oh, my gosh, this could be it.
We could finally get justice for Natalee.
" The more I think about this new lead, it brings up the memories of all the old leads, and none of them have panned out.
Even after Joran was released, the media didn't give up, and neither did we, and, you know, we've got to follow all leads and we do.
A sonar-equipped ship is searching the Aruban waters for any signs of Natalee Holloway.
Well, they found something, a piece of fabric inside a crab trap.
The FBI laboratory in the United States tested the fabric to see if it matched Natalee Holloway's blouse, but they say it's not a match.
Divers will search the area where a photograph was taken last fall that may show human remains.
Officials in Aruba say a jawbone discovered on a beach does not belong to the missing Alabama teenager.
We searched the entire island and we found nothing.
Back in 2010, early February, Paulus van der Sloot had passed away with a heart attack.
The news media started the question how it would affect the investigation.
What's your reaction to the news that Daddy van der.
Sloot is dead, collapsing on a resort's tennis court? Police initially believed that he may have been involved in the cover-up.
So Joran did not have that support that he once had.
His father protected him throughout all this time, but after he died of a heart attack, Joran, with the use of drugs and alcohol and the partying, he was kind of out of control.
But soon after that, Joran contacted Beth's attorney in New York and had indicated that for $250,000 he was willing to show them where Natalee was buried.
This is without a doubt among the cruelest, most sickening of schemes.
Joran van der Sloot trying to profit from a mother's grief.
He gave an agent posing as a family representative a location that later turned out to be false.
He has since been indicted on extortion and wire fraud.
He used that money to fund his trip to Peru.
He was there about three weeks, blew blew all of his money, and five years to the day that Natalee went missing, Joran was back in the news having murdered Stephany Flores in Peru.
Breaking news out of Lima, Peru, where police say Joran van der Sloot has confessed to killing a woman there last week reportedly after she looked up information on his computer about Natalee Holloway.
When I first heard about Stephany Flores' murder, I thought to myself, "I knew he was gonna do this again," and I'm not the one who points fingers and the blame game and stuff, but, you know, Aruba had their shot.
They had an opportunity to arrest him right after the extortion money, and then he fled the island and now he's murdered another girl.
After Paulus died of heart attack, Joran relied on this guy by the name of John Ludwick as his main source of support.
He even appeared on the Nancy Grace show defending Joran after he killed Stephany Flores.
Joining us right now, special guest John Ludwick.
You're a friend of Joran van der Sloot's.
Are you surprised that he's actually plead guilty to murder? Well, he really didn't have a choice in this situation.
He obviously murdered her; We're just hoping for the best.
Hopefully he gets out in ten years or less.
This guy Gabriel contacted me a few months back and indicated that he knew a guy by the name of John who had some information that he knows where Natalee's remains are.
The fact that all the other leads were based on theories or speculation, this lead, we have a person who states that he was directly involved with Joran van der.
Sloot in disposing of Natalee's remains.
And I thought, "You know, there may be something to this.
" And so I picked up the phone, and I called TJ.
My name's TJ Ward.
I'm a licensed private investigator here in the state of Georgia, and I've been doing it for 36 years.
In July of 2005, I commenced an investigation after being hired by the Holloway family to try to find their daughter, Natalee Holloway.
This is not a traffic ticket.
This is a criminal investigation which will probably lead to murder, And we are still gathering information and we will turn it over to the family and to law enforcement accordingly.
I haven't stopped working on it for going on 12 years now, and I won't give up.
Dave Holloway is family to me, and I would do anything for him.
I have a picture on my wall in my office of Natalee Holloway.
I put it up when I got it in 2005, and it will remain there until the resolution of this case.
Natalee's personal to me.
I have put all my heart into trying to bring closure with a family who's lost their daughter.
Here we are, headed to Tampa which is where TJ Ward, the special investigator, is located.
He's always been involved in Natalee's case and we've worked about A number of leads together, and hopefully this will be the last one, so Dave was contacted by an individual named Gabriel.
Gabriel had an individual that he had a relationship with named John Ludwick.
I have I know John Ludwick through another friend that Just somebody I kind of bumped into him, 'cause I play a lot of poker.
We started gathering information from Gabriel about John Ludwick, and we know he was in Aruba in 2010.
I've seen his passport.
We've confirmed he's had a relationship with with van der Sloot and Gabriel wants some closure brought to Dave Holloway and his family.
I'm willing to help to to give Dave and his ex-wife Do you believe the information he's told you is truthful? It's 100%.
Well, I've been in a cold sweat, ehm for the last few days.
Ever since we developed this lead, I I look back on numerous, numerous failures on leads that just didn't pan out.
Well, emotionally, you're just flat on your back.
Back in 2007, my theory was that Natalee was in a crab trap.
When we did the boat search and did six weeks of searching, identified all those traps and they found one that appeared to have a body in it.
And I'll never forget, it was right during the holidays, maybe after Christmas.
We received a call that, "Look, I think we found Natalee.
" You know, and it was kind of a relief but then it was, you know, it was time to grieve, you know, and later on that evening, after they checked it, they called back and apologized and said that, "We've made a mistake.
" [GENTLE PIANO MUSIC.]
To go through that traumatic process was just it'll kill you, you know? I was able to pull myself together and it it continued to hurt my wife for a while.
When you see your wife crying for weeks and weeks and weeks, you tell yourself then that it's not gonna happen again.
I'm not going to get my family involved and get their hopes up high and knowing that we're going to have to develop this thing for months, and, you know, and I finally decided, I said, "TJ," I said, "If anyone takes the fall, it's gonna be me, and that's it," so I need to continue searching, and I don't know, you just can't quit.
You just can't sleep at night knowing that you've got a valid lead out here and it's got to be checked out.
We've chased a lot A lot of leads, and this one is by far the most credible lead that I've seen in the last 12 years.
[THUNDER BOOMING.]
I came to Tampa, Florida, which is a location close to where Gabriel lives.
We felt like it was time to meet him face to face.
We just want to sit down with him and get the full story and find out exactly what he has to say.
This latest lead, you know, I I looked at it, and I looked at it with apprehension because I had to just get in my mind that there's got to be some evidence before I can jump in all in.
But I just had to go and check it out so that five years from now I can lay my head on the pillow and not think about, "Well, should I have gone down there or not?" We've had help from a credible witness, and then tomorrow you're gonna see the real story.
You still feel good about him - as being a witness? - I really do.
You know, I've been on constant contact with Gabriel, and he's been very, very loyal to me.
I've built a relationship with him; He trusts me.
I trust him, and he's gathered a lot of information.
Couple things that I I think we really need to hit on is obviously the story.
Well, I'll be happy to show you the interview.
I believe the information that John told Gabriel's true.
He stuck with his story about what transpired.
There's too much detail not to look into it.
This is with Gabriel and me.
This was done several months ago.
Today is May 29, 2016.
How do you know John Ludwick? I know John Ludwick through another friend.
"One day he goes," Hey, you know what? I want to get something off my chest.
" He goes, "You ever see me on TV?" I go, "Nope.
" "Do you know the Natalee Holloway case and blah, blah, blah?" And I say, "Yes, I do know.
" "You know who this guy is, van der Sloot?" "Nope.
" You're talking about Joran van der Sloot? He's Joran van der Sloot.
John, he told me, goes to Aruba and he bumped into him somehow.
Van der Sloot.
And then they start hanging.
Every single day, every night.
One day he spilled all the beans right there and then.
"Tells him," Look, when Natalee that night "that she went to the beach with me, "she start foaming at the mouth.
I couldn't wake her up.
" - God - "I tried, I tried.
I tried.
" As I was holding her, and I got freaked out.
I called my dad.
Then him and his dad van der Sloot, and his dad Buried the body and [EERIE MUSIC.]
And John goes, "Well, okay, so what's going on?" And then van der Sloot goes, "I'm scared.
I'm scared they're gonna find it.
" "So what do you want me to do?" "He goes," Look, I'll pay you $1,500 if you go and dig the body up.
" "I'm gonna take you tomorrow.
"We're gonna go ahead, and we're gonna show you exactly where the body's at.
" So John goes, "Okay, I'll help you, man.
You know, I'll be there for you.
" He uncovered the body in the national forest.
Dug it up, and then he took it to the morgue.
Body got cremated and then threw it in the ocean, low tide.
That's what John told me.
Whew.
From what he's saying, John Ludwick was involved with Joran van der Sloot in 2010 and had knowledge to your daughter's remains.
He didn't bring it to light, and he covered for van der Sloot, so he's a party to the crime.
And we've confirmed with documents from his passport - Yeah, okay.
- That he was in Aruba at the time that all this was supposed to have transpired.
I can tell you from my experience in law enforcement over 40 years, this guy's ruthless.
- - I got you.
- And Gabriel has stuck with him, so we wouldn't lose what's going on here.
Yeah.
Is Gabriel still with us? Yes, Gabriel's still on board, and you and him are gonna talk.
I'd be glad to meet him.
I just want to meet up with him, see if I can size him up, and He will be there at 12:30 tomorrow - 12:30, okay.
- To meet you.
Okay.
Am I nervous about meeting Gabriel? I I'm excited about meeting Gabriel because I want to make sure that what he's saying is what we've been hearing the last couple of weeks.
I don't know if I could handle if I found out that this was all a hoax.
I'm anxious to meet with Gabriel and And go over the story and ask him quite a few questions about John and how he feels about the this whole ordeal.
I've still got a little bit of reservations, but if he shows up I think we're really on to something.
Ready to get it over with.
He should be here any minute.
I've got knots in my stomach.
I I think this will be a good thing for you after you meet him.
I think he's willing to work with us to build the evidence for us to turn it over to the government to bring charges against the individuals responsible - for your daughter's death.
- Yes.
I never dreamed it would be 12 years.
I always thought that it would be just right around the corner and I Well, I didn't either.
There's been a lot of lies and a lot of stories but we're down to the moment Yep, this is the big turning point here.
He's not here yet, but I'll send him a message and see if he's close.
He's got the address, right? Whew.
- Nervous.
- [PRODUCER.]
You look nervous.
- Huh? - You look nervous.
I am nervous.
Minutes seem like hours.
He should have been here by now.
Oh, boy.
Whew.
- Nervous.
- [PRODUCER.]
You look nervous.
- Huh? - You look nervous.
I am nervous.
Minutes seem like hours.
Oh, boy.
[CELL PHONE CHIMING.]
Hey.
Just hold on one second.
[PRODUCER.]
How are you feeling? I'm relieved that he's here.
Gosh.
I'll tell you, at first I thought, "Man, he's not showing up.
He's pulling a string on us.
" Now that he's showed up I'm very relieved.
I'm a father of two daughters.
I feel obligated to solve this.
I want to help.
So, John, how long did you know him before he started opening up? I will say about 3 1/2 years, almost 4 years.
- Wow.
- Yeah.
But I wasn't sure at the beginning, but then he started getting more into detail and telling me more further, further, further.
Well, just start from the beginning and just lead me through.
I've heard bits and pieces, but Um, he told me that he went to Aruba 'cause he has an aunt living there.
- Right.
- So then in 2010, he meets van der Sloot in he said January, February.
So he was walking in the store, and he bumps into van der Sloot, and then he goes, "Oh, my God, you know, I see you on TV, blah blah blah, you know, I would like to be your friend.
" And then they start partying.
So as van der Sloot is getting more comfortable and more comfortable with him, he starts opening up to John.
Uh, John said that he went ahead and told him what happened to Natalee.
He goes, "Well, the night that she died," van der Sloot says, "We got a ride.
" They dropped us off.
We walked down the hotel.
" He just said the hotel, the Marriott Hotel, something like that.
"We walked under there's a sidewalk all the way down" and it goes to the beach.
"And so we walked down there" So so Deepak and Satish, they dropped him off right there that road that leads between the Marriott.
- Yeah.
- Okay.
When he mentioned that, it was kind of strange.
Most people think she was dropped off at the fishermen's hut.
Everyone kind of agreed to that story, but I knew that they actually dropped them off at the road right beside the Marriott Hotel.
John said that van der Sloot goes, "We walked down there, and we "I took two drinks.
"I told the bartender, 'Give me two drinks.
' So 'but fix it good.
'" Joran van der Sloot admits that he served Natalee a drink and I think it was was a spiked drink with GHB which is a date rape drug.
So then they go down the beach.
Van der Sloot said that as he was trying to kiss her, she starts foaming at the mouth 'cause she was overdosing.
He panicked.
He didn't even put her on her side, roll her over or nothing.
She actually choked on her own vomit.
I if she died on her own, why didn't he just say it was an accident? Because he got scared.
Well, he may have, uh they may have found GHB.
- Yeah.
- That that's the reason.
Yeah, 'cause that's what they were doing to all the girls.
You know? He panics, he calls his dad.
His dad comes.
He's very pissed off.
He looks at her.
He goes, "Oh, my God.
She's dead.
" And he goes, "All right, wait here.
" I'm going back to the house.
" He goes and picks up a burlap.
He comes back and then he goes, "It doesn't fit here.
" So then he stomps on her legs, cracks her legs, puts her in the burlap I know this is really hard, puts her in the burlap, and actually folds her over like this.
- And this is Paulus? - Yes.
So then they grab her, put her in the back of his car, and they drive to the park, and they pick the spot, digs a hole, puts her in, covers her up, and his dad goes, "Grab that cactus" and that will just cover everything up.
" And his dad goes, "Don't you ever tell nobody.
Nobody.
" But he told John.
So they took up that very first night, they took care of everything.
Mm-hmm.
She died, within two, three hours, they buried her.
When he mentioned that Paulus van der Sloot dismembered my daughter so that she would fit in a burlap sack, man, my heart just sunk.
It's like taking that wound and cutting it back open.
One day van der Sloot says, "Look, John, "you know, I'm in deep trouble.
"They're gonna find the body.
Can you help me out?" And what made him think that? Because you guys were getting close.
All the searches 'cause you guys didn't stop, and van der Sloot said look, "I'm gonna give you $1,500 to move the body.
"I'm gonna write up a little map and I'm gonna tell you where it's at.
" So then John goes the following night and he said it was only like, three feet down.
I finally seen the little head of the burlap.
I pulled it out and it had this decayed smell.
I said, "So what did you do?" He goes, "Well, I went ahead and opened the bag" when I put it inside my aunt's car.
" So he puts it in the back, put the bones He opens the bag, he goes, "You know, all the bones were just brown-ish, moldy," and there was two inches of just black, like, lard from the body when it decays on the bottom of the burlap, and her hair was there, blonde hair, and all the bones.
So then van der Sloot had a connection that his dad had at the morgue, so then John goes ahead and takes it and the body got cremated, everything in there got cremated, so he picks up all the ashes and he goes back to van der Sloot.
They go and it was low tide, and they just spread it.
So the only thing you have now is where the burlap came out.
- There's DNA evidence still - Correct.
There should be DNA evidence at the grave in the national forest and the aunt's car.
If what he says is true, there would still be some DNA recoverable evidence.
Yeah, you know, you always still have your guard up.
There's no doubt about that.
I won't ever let it down until we actually go to the grave site, but the final thing that's gonna finally make me believe that this was all real is, is, we find the spot and we find some DNA.
So they could check that car, take the carpet out and test it for her DNA and then go back where Where they buried her, so Well, man, let me ask you this.
John inserted himself into this investigation.
How confident are you that he's just not making all this up? Because there's no way possible somebody could make up stuff with so much detail.
When you meet this guy, you're gonna know what I'm talking about.
He is heartless.
Like, he there is no life in him.
I said, "Well, why don't you come clean?" He goes, "I would never come clean.
" Van der Sloot was my best friend.
" I'm like, "Okay, whatever.
" It's just hard to understand him.
So you're 100%, no questions about it that he says What he says is true.
I'm 100%.
This is 100%.
So you're 100%, no questions about it that he says What he says is true.
I'm 100%.
There was police officials.
There was judges, Everybody who owns a little bit of the island had a part of this.
So so Deepak and Satish, ones who were driving the car, any involvement on them? - No.
- What about police officers? Any name any names? No.
He says the police officers there are crooked, very crooked, and he says they had to do a lot to covering it up, to save van der Sloot's dad.
So whatever they could do to help him they did.
But the mistake was that van der Sloot did what his dad said, never tell.
Never tell nobody.
He told John.
Let let's just say that this all rolls out as planned and there's some DNA extracted.
Then John goes to jail for a number of years.
- Mm-hmm.
- You think he'd ever try to retaliate against you or anyone else? I know he'll try to come back to me, 'cause he said, "If anybody ever backstabs me, I will kill 'em.
" So that that kept in my head, you know? - Mm-hmm.
- Like, okay, when this goes down, he's gonna hate me, but when he does get out, he's gonna try to find me.
I ain't scared, you know? Some of the things I've heard about John is, you know, this guy has some mental issues.
He appears to me to be a psychopath, and then the fact that he would actually go to a gravesite to dig up the remains on his own just to help a friend disturbs me as well and I need to know if John's story is credible enough to go through all of this again.
Well, that was a big test for me today 'cause I know that you wouldn't put your reputation online if you didn't think this was the truth, and you wouldn't allow yourself to be displayed as someone that is trying to con somebody.
What they did is very wrong, you know? And I have two daughters and you you went through hell.
And I have said, "Well, I'm gonna do" whatever I have to do, - Mm-hmm.
- to get this guy.
" I'm trying to work up some doubt just that John dreamed all this up in his mind and believes it to be true.
I'll just have to think about it for a while, and and determine if it's even worth pursuing.
What concerns me is he knows information that is not known to the public.
He knew that Natalee was dropped off on the road next to the Marriott Hotel rather than the fishermen's huts where everyone thinks that she was located.
It leaves me with very little doubt that he may be involved in removing Natalee's remains.
So, how'd it go? He had a lot more details than what I've heard in the other recordings, and - Mm.
- Well, let me ask you this.
What do you know about the drop-off point where Deepak and Sateesh dropped off Joran and Natalee? You're talking about on the beach? - Yeah.
- Behind the fishermen's hut? - Yeah.
- Okay.
Is that is that I mean, is that the story, - that's out there? - That's consistent with what I have.
Okay, well, back in 2005 when Deepak and Satish were considered a suspect, I ended up meeting one of the lawyers so that I could he could discuss the case with me because he felt like Deepak and Satish were innocent and he told me that Deepak and Satish said that they dropped Natalee off at the little road right beside the Marriott Hotel all the way down the MooMba Beach.
- Okay.
- All right, no one knows that except for me and and the lawyer.
And I didn't really think much about it and it never gained any traction because everybody said the fishermen's hut.
The story was that they dropped 'em off where the fishermen's hut was.
Well, Gabriel mentions in the interview that Joran and Natalee were dropped off on that road that leads to the MooMba Beach.
Well, that's interesting.
But I'm thinking, "Well, John wouldn't have known" "that unless Joran told him.
There's no way.
" So I didn't even know it.
Yeah, well, no one really knew it except for me.
[TENSE MUSIC.]
After I met with Gabriel, I went back to my hotel room to do some research on this guy John Ludwick.
Gabriel had sent me a bunch of videos that he had filmed of John at their home to document the story, of what John has told a number of times.
I came here to meet this nutcase.
He's going crazy.
In one of them, it shows John watching a rerun of an interview he did on Nancy Grace show talking about his friendship with Joran van der Sloot and I couldn't believe my eyes.
John, what are you watching? One of my prouder moments of my past.
Oh, there you are.
Joining us right now, special guest John Ludwick.
You're a friend of Joran van der Sloot's.
Are you surprised that he's actually pled guilty to murder? Well, he really didn't have a choice in this situation.
So I was just told.
We had a great time in Aruba.
We used to party there after the Natalee stuff ended and before the Stephany case began and it was a great time in my life.
But she f ed his life up.
Oh, if she got the email and figured out he was involved in Natalee's stuff she should have just immediately left the room - and not confronted him.
- No, no, but how did that provoke him? I just f ing said it.
She finds out he's involved by some goddamn email she claims and f ing stays there and slaps him around? How dare she put her hands on him to make him even take it to that level? Yeah, we're just hoping for the best.
Hopefully he gets out in ten years or less.
He used powerful force to murder a defenseless woman and you're saying you hope for the best? This bitch should re Oh, man.
She should rot in her grave over what she did to my guy, putting him in jail for all these years.
I should piss on her f ing grave for that sh Sir, you know what? Cut his mic.
Take him off the screen.
I don't want to look at him anymore.
Oh, boy, that was sick.
Even joking about something like that is just unbelievable to me.
I I would think that To watch his own video and and see it on "Nancy Grace" and then re-running it and trashing a human that's lost their life is that that's just perverted sick.
After you see that and he And Joran gives him instructions to go do something, yeah, he'll do it in a minute.
And now he's saying he did something to Natalee and he knows where she is.
And, you know, it's my goal to find her.
And I only could come up with really one big con, and that would be [JOHN.]
Then I sound crazy.
That John is apparently mental [JOHN.]
How dare she put her hands on him? And wants to be involved in the case and may have hallucinated this whole thing.
But I can throw it back at you saying that the intricate details are such that, you know, you can't possibly dream this up.
[JOHN.]
She should rot in her grave.
You just can't sleep at night knowing that if I have a lead, I've got to pursue it.
I need to get justice for Natalee.
That's been my goal from the very beginning.
We've got to move forward.
He'll come after Gabriel.
I guarantee you.
Yeah, I'll I'll be ready.
12 years and we still have nothing until now.
This guy stated he committed a crime and I want him locked up for what he did.
I'm wiring the room to be used for law enforcement.
She died, within two, three hours, they buried her.
That's where the fucking shit was hidden.
This could be it.
We're putting the puzzle together for them, and they're not using it and I don't know why.
What the heck is going on here? Nothing that John said could have been collaborated.
- He's telling the truth.
- He's not telling the truth.
There's always been a friction between John and Gabriel and here we have Gabriel ready to throw in the towel.
- I quit! (BLEEP).
- He is so full of sh I don't think they'll let this slip away.
- Do you? - No.
This one is by far the most credible lead that I've seen in the last 12 years.
We need to get to the scene.
Let's go.
Let's go.
Let's go.
This is the moment of truth right here.
Her body was right here.
For more information on.
"The Disappearance of Natalee Holloway," go to: oxygen.
com [LAUGHTER.]
[BELL DINGS.]