The Problem with Jon Stewart (2021) s01e01 Episode Script
War
[Jon Stewart] Not a person that I work
with on this issue in DC who served--
You'll be working with them for months.
Then one day, they'll casually mention,
"Yeah, the nodules in my lungs"--
And I'm like, "What?"
People think veterans have
health care for life.
-[Stewart] Right.
-They're just like,
"I don't understand why that's a problem.
They have health care." And they don't.
With veterans in particular, there's
an assumption they're taken care of.
Are you seeing parallels
with the 9/11 first responder--
Sure. Absolutely.
This idea, you said, came from
a Daily Show episode you did, right?
-Yes.
-Was it the 9/11 one?
The 9/11 one.
It was for first responders who were sick.
We'd never done it.
You know, the show was always, like,
either an author of a book
-no one gave a shit-- [laughs]
-[all laughing]
[woman] Or an actress from a movie
who you didn't know.
Let's be honest.
So, we-- we had them on,
and they just… told their story.
Which, right, is the idea here?
Let's have the first act be
sort of a road map, like a mall map.
You know, "You are here."
For whatever--
whatever issue we're dealing with.
And then that second act or whatever,
let's find the-- the-- the stakeholders,
the voices that can give
that witness testimony.
No, I like this. Let's see.
This is the show.
-[Reza] Yeah. That's the show.
-[Brinda] Oh, that's it.
This is what's coming.
[Brinda]
I think that's act one up there. [laughs]
How can that not be the show?
[laughing]
[audience cheering, applauding]
Hello.
My name's Jon Stewart.
You may remember me from such hits as…
MTV's You Wrote It, You Watch It
and Elmopalooza!
[audience chuckles]
[audience laughs]
I guess that answers
whether this show will be funny or not.
[laughing continues]
[laughing]
I've been away from television
for some time,
and before we get started, uh,
I really wanted to address
the elephant in the room.
Um…
This is what I look like now.
[audience laughs]
I'm not happy about it either.
Very few people would be happy
looking like an anti-smoking poster.
Thought you people liked me.
Uh, why don't we begin tonight,
uh, slowly?
First show,
let's kinda ease our way into it.
Let's try something bipartisan
and noncontroversial:
veterans.
[male announcer]
Military Appreciation Night,
presented by Pacific Premier Bank…
Thank you for your service.
We thank you for your service.
-[repeating] Thank you for your service.
-One, two, three, four…
[male announcer 2]
The Price Is Right salutes our troops!
-I love you all! Kissy, kissy!
-Yeah.
-…five, six, seven, eight…
-[repeating] Thank you for your service.
[male announcer 3] If you serve, you save!
[male announcer 4]
Free all-you-can-eat hotcakes.
[others] …eighteen, nineteen, twenty…
Thank you. I love you all so much.
And may God protect our troops.
Come on! We're America!
[audience laughs]
[laughs louder]
Angry Biden! We're American!
Yes, in this divided country,
the one thing
that we seem to be able to agree on
is that we love the troops.
But unfortunately…
One in five US military personnel
serving in combat
will suffer some form of PTSD.
One in three vets,
they say they experience underemployment.
[male reporter] One in six vets
who served in Iraq or Afghanistan,
addicted to drugs or alcohol.
Nearly 50,000 veterans will experience
homelessness each year.
[female reporter] According to
the Department of Veterans Affairs,
17 US veterans
take their own lives each day.
Yes, we love our vets.
But you know the old saying,
"If you love someone,
let them go fuck themselves."
Turns out, we support our troops
unless they actually need support,
a kind of performative patriotism
that barely seems to register
the suffering
that their sacrifice sometimes brings.
For instance, just last summer,
Jake Tapper broke this story.
A serious story now
that you may not have heard about:
The US military has long used burn pits
to destroy all sorts of waste,
from chemicals to metals to human waste,
setting fires that churned out black smoke
near military bases.
Service members have reported
symptoms as serious as cancer,
which they blame on their exposure
to the burn pits.
Holy shit.
Well, as-- as troop-loving Americans,
the time to rise up
and defend our veterans
was probably 2008,
when this story was first breaking news.
A stunning statement
from the United States military.
It says open burn pits in Iraq exposed
thousands of troops to toxic chemicals.
You're probably wondering,
"What exactly is a burn pit?"
Well, it turns out,
when you invade a country,
they don't tell you when trash day is.
So everything
that the military wants to get rid of,
from rotting food to old uniforms,
to hazardous materials,
medical waste, batteries,
to ammunition, armaments, entire trucks,
nuclear waste, amputated body parts,
and the maraschino cherry:
metric tons of human feces--
Which, obviously, you don't want
to pile that shit up on your base.
You just want to put it
right next to your base
and then pour jet fuel on it
and light it on fire.
Perhaps a visual would be helpful.
[Stewart] This black plume of smoke
is coming from a burn pit.
And these suckers are big,
sometimes as big as 10 acres.
And all of the soldiers on the base
breathed in that smoke 24-7.
It got in their food,
their clothes, their eyes.
They could not escape it.
And again, I cannot stress this enough.
The most powerful and lavishly funded,
technologically sophisticated
military apparatus in the world
got rid of their trash
the same way Jake Paul does.
[man] Oh, wow.
Oh, God, it's already in flames.
-Oh, my God!
-[man 2] Whoa, whoa!
There's gonna be a kaboom!
-Whoo!
-Whoo!
[audience laughs]
By the way, I'm boxing him
on a pay-per-view next Saturday.
[audience laughing, applauding]
I'm urging you not to bet on me.
My-- My bones are made of dust.
Burn pits!
Burn pits.
We did that to ourselves.
And as these smoldering ashtrays
of freedom burned,
they released a bouquet
of poisonous carcinogens,
like benzene and dioxins,
and it has had devastating consequences
for the people who served.
The diagnosis was
constrictive bronchiolitis.
They diagnosed me
with hypersensitivity pneumonitis
and pulmonary fibrosis.
There's a mass in his brain,
and we think that it's cancerous.
And I had a form of pancreatic cancer.
I have lung cancer.
Lymphoma cancer.
It was squa-- squamous cell carcinoma.
It's not a type of cancer
for a young 27-year-old guy to have.
Now, here's the fun part.
Veterans who suffered
these terrible health effects
from toxic exposures to burn pits
are being denied health care and benefits
from the VA.
Right now we're a quarter million dollars
in debt from cancer costs.
Um, we're bankrupt, um,
and the VA still denies my claim,
that it's not the--
that it's not from exposures.
Over 70% of claims filed by veterans
suffering from burn pit exposure
have been denied by the VA.
Which is kinda bad news for
the more than 3 million service members
who have been exposed to burn pits.
And why are these toxic wounds
being denied?
It's, uh, my understanding that
we do not have,
uh, specific evidence that ties,
uh, these kinds of, uh,
disposal facilities to, uh, health issues.
First of all, fuck you for calling
burn pits "disposal facilities."
And I'm not a body language expert,
but I'm pretty sure
that guy was doing every tell possible
on lying.
"Well, I, uh, look down.
I… I shift paper.
And now I'm going to make up
a ridiculous euphemism for burn pits."
What the DOD and the VA are saying is that
they just don't have the proof,
the scientific evidence,
that exposure to benzene and dioxins
in burning pits made soldiers sick.
And the VA and the DOD keep paying
for studies to find the proof
using data provided to them
by the Pentagon.
But lo and behold,
those studies are inconclusive.
Hmm.
So, may I be of service?
Here's a classic
from Pert Plus model Dan Rather.
Exposure to benzene fumes is toxic.
A widely suspected cause
of blood disorders, including leukemia.
How about science from Chris Wallace
looking like Chris Pratt
playing Chris Wallace?
A preliminary government study
strongly suggests
that the chemical dioxin
causes cancer in humans.
Or maybe you'd like
some science from the EPA.
They're right down the hall from you.
They work in your building.
The health risks associated with dioxin…
…are greater than previously suspected.
Or just maybe the DOD want their science
from a memo that they wrote
to their fucking selves.
Because in 2009,
the DOD issued an official
internal environmental regulation
that acknowledged, quote,
"Burn pits inherently create health issues
and should be terminated
as soon as practical, in order to protect
the life, health and safety
of USCENTCOM and coalition personnel."
And in 2010, the VA circulated
an official internal memo
telling VA medical examiners
to be on the lookout
for conditions related to the exposure
of these chemicals:
particulate matter,
polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons,
volatile organic compounds,
dioxins and furans.
We know the chemicals from burn pits are
the same chemicals in Agent Orange
and the same chemicals at Ground Zero.
And we know exposure
to those chemicals makes you sick.
We know.
They know.
We know they know.
And now I think they know
that we know that they know.
So why is the VA denying these claims?
Well, no surprise.
The reason is money.
He was a healthy guy when he got back.
He was a healthy guy
while he was out there.
But then you wanna say, "Oh, no."
If it doesn't get--
If they don't see symptoms
within the first 12 months
of them coming back,
and he doesn't get a diagnosis, forget it.
They're screwed.
Because they don't see it as
it's service related.
The VA's new model is, uh,
"Delay, deny, hope you die."
Wow. "Delay, deny, hope you die."
There's a slogan for our flag pins.
So now veterans are dying
and going bankrupt
because the DOD and VA are forcing them
to indisputably prove a connection
that they already internally admit exists.
And what makes it
so incredibly demoralizing
is that they are holding the veterans
to a standard of proof
far beyond the one our own government used
to send them to war in the first place.
We cannot wait for the final proof,
the smoking gun
that could come in the form
of a mushroom cloud.
They couldn't wait for the final proof
in their effort to protect us all
from being exposed
to the terrible health effects
of a toxic cloud.
We went there to find
weapons of mass destruction.
And when they weren't there,
we made our own.
We'll be right back.
[audience applauding]
[Stewart] Imagine this baking dish is
a gigantic hole in the ground,
like ten acres.
First, we're gonna add
our dry ingredients: old uniforms,
truck tires, plastic bags, batteries.
Then the wet ingredients: medical waste,
random trash, a bunch of piss,
an absolute shit ton of human shit.
Sprinkle in some amputated body parts.
Don't ask me where I got these.
And then we're gonna just add in
some jet fuel.
Mix it all together, and…
-[explosion]
-Fuck!
-Oh, fuck!
-[audience laughs]
That's a burn pit.
Uh, if you're gonna try it at home, don't.
It is literally illegal to do this
in the United States.
Thanks to the DOD for the recipe.
Like and comment for Part 2.
Welcome back to the program.
Thanks for joining us.
Uh, right now we're gonna talk
to some of the people
who are actually living through
what we were just talking about.
First, Captain Le Roy Torres.
Served in the army for 23 years.
Cofounder of Burn Pits 360 with his wife,
Rosie Torres, who also joins us.
Le Roy, Rosie,
I'm gonna start with you guys.
I met you guys about three years ago.
Le Roy, can you describe your experience
having been in Iraq,
uh, what you were exposed to
and what happened since?
When I first arrived there,
I just noticed this stench.
A horrific stench of just,
like, burning rubber.
It was this-- this massive, uh,
just huge hole where they were just
burning all this trash.
Within about a month,
I was having respiratory issues,
unexplained headaches, GI issues,
and I was actually quarantined
for 72 hours.
They said it was the Iraqi crud
that I was dealing with,
that eventually
my system would overcome that.
"Iraqi crud." That's a medical term,
I believe. Iraqi crud.
That's what the doctors call it.
And you get back then
from your deployment,
and you were in the Texas, uh, state--
-You were a Texas state trooper?
-Yes.
And what happens then?
[sighs] Well, I come back,
and I start missing a lot of work.
Eventually, August of 2010,
I was told one morning,
"You can't come back to work.
You may be contagious.
You need to get yourself checked out.
There is definitely
something wrong with you."
And that's
when our personal journey started
with, uh, seeking-- trying to seek
specialized medical health care…
-[Stewart] Right.
-…for my issues.
So you end up actually having to leave
the state troopers.
-I was forced to, yes.
-[Stewart] You were forced to.
Now-- Now, Rosie, Le Roy comes home.
He's clearly suffering
from all these conditions.
-And you're on your own.
-[Rosie] Right. Mmm.
[Stewart] So you've got to become your own
doctor, lawyer, advocate, everything.
Right. You know, we're juggling,
trying to figure out, like,
how we move forward in our lives
because we knew
that we were up against two systems:
his employer, his civilian employer, uh--
Three. DOD, uh, trying to, you know,
force that medical retirement as well,
and then the VA.
Trying to figure out
how do we file a claim
because we're gonna end up
homeless on the street
if we don't figure this out quickly.
And you and I have talked about this.
All this has left you, you know,
at times, in a pretty dark place.
Yes. Very dark place.
Um, and I'll be honest.
In 2016, I attempted to take my life.
But thankfully for my service dog, Hope,
and my wife that I'm still here today.
And, uh--
And I can't tell you
how inspired I am by you guys.
I mean, you know, I've been banging around
with this for a couple years,
but you guys have been at it for so long.
Julie, you, you know-- [stammers]
You worked as a--
a clinical researcher in the VA…
…but you had also suffered
from the burn pits.
Yes.
So if you can't navigate that system,
and you are in it,
what chances does anybody have?
It's just a really hard system
to navigate,
and there's a lot of different layers
and bureaucracy and red tape.
When you apply for benefits,
you have to go through rigorous testing
to sort of prove what you have
and if it's service connected.
So you can be diagnosed with a cancer,
and you can still be denied
and say there's no link.
The interesting thing here-- We're there.
And you can tell where the audience is--
I think people are stunned.
Because I think the thought process is,
"We love our troops."
The rhetoric is, "We love the troops.
We support the troops."
And troops get health care, don't they?
But it's not like that.
And, Isiah, you know,
you actually were on the pits.
-You were stirring these things.
-Yes.
What's your experience been with this?
Absolute horror and nightmare.
Everything we had-- trash, food--
The worst was human waste.
Can I curse on here?
-No!
-Oh. Well, everywhere--
-[chuckles] I don't know--
-Isiah!
What kind of fucking program do you think
I'm running here?
So every week, each platoon got shit duty.
So all of the human waste from an entire
company of grunts has to be stirred,
and it bubbles, and it's--
It's a horrible, horrible thing.
And that's one of the reasons I was
retired from the army at 27 years old,
because I'm 90% disabled
because I have lung scarring.
And I was a healthy kid
when I went into the army.
I could run five miles
like it was nothing.
Now I can barely breathe at night
and have to use a breathing machine
and go through breathing treatments
and all these things.
Burn pits is
our generation's Agent Orange.
A lot of my friends
who were young like me,
with all the burn pits we had,
started getting cancer.
And the United States military
and the government
doesn't give a damn about us
once we're out.
Once you're out, they do not care.
And it's also, you know, to some extent,
part of it is a function of--
It's such a small percentage
of the country that serves.
Yes.
So those problems don't get communicated
out to the general population.
And I can tell you,
just from the audience's response--
And this is a very broad-based selection
of Upper West Side Jews.
-This is…
-[audience, panelists laughing]
But it's a surprise to people.
Gina, I want to talk to you…
…because I couldn't believe
how much you had to do,
as your husband was-- was sick and dying--
What-- The burden of proof is somehow
on the sick veteran and his family.
Well, I didn't know that his cancer
was related to burn pits or anything…
…until probably about six to eight months
before he passed away.
And with the help of Rosie and Le Roy,
um, I filled out the paperwork,
and, I mean, they didn't even--
I sent stacks of information
from Memorial Sloan Kettering
because he wasn't treated
at a VA facility,
because, again,
I did not know it was VA-related,
and we live close enough to Memorial
that we went to the top facility
for his cancer,
and they don't even know to look for this.
From March of 2003 to August of 2003,
he was in Iraq.
He slept, mmm, probably from where I am
-to where the end of your rows are…
-[Stewart] Right.
…for six months, away from a burning pit.
And they'd wake up choking
in the middle of the night.
He was diagnosed at one point
with hypertension.
Well, now I come to find out that
that's a bit of a red flag
and should push you to go get
some other tests
and to investigate a little bit further.
[stammers] We had no idea.
That's the VA
and the Marine Corps's responsibility.
It's their responsibility,
and they're failing.
When somebody comes in and tells you
that they were in the military,
and they were in a war,
there should be
a toxic panel done on them.
You brought up something really, I think,
crucial to this entire conversation.
Because the VA
is an advocate for the veteran.
That's their charter.
But for some reason,
they don't recognize toxic exposure
as an IED that goes off in your body
seven years later.
And by having that denial
from, uh, service-related--
They don't have to pay out.
Rosie, you know, you've all worked
to create legislation on presumption.
We presume that any veteran
who has served in the Global War on Terror
has been exposed to these toxic exposures.
And these list of illnesses that we know
are caused by these types of exposures
will be covered.
And I do feel that, because of
the conditions that are surfacing
from inhaling such toxic chemicals,
um, you know,
the only way to go is-- is presumption.
And if they know that
you're being exposed to these things
and they don't put you through a panel--
And, Wes, I want to thank you
for being patient there,
but that gets to your story.
You come back,
and you're going to doctors
because you're having stomach issues.
So when I first came home
from Afghanistan in 2011--
About two years after I came home,
I was experiencing
frequent bowel movements,
multiple times a day.
And I was noticing blood.
And I went into the VA.
And it wasn't until 2017
when I was diagnosed
with stage IV colon cancer.
And-- And when you first went to the VA,
was there any sense of, say,
"Hey man, stomach issues,
and you were exposed to burn pits.
Let's get you some diagnostic tests."
Or did they not even consider
these kinds of things?
So, I was diagnosed
with irritable bowel syndrome,
and one of the things is,
to be diagnosed
with irritable bowel syndrome,
you have to have a colonoscopy
to rule out everything else.
And I was never given
the option of a colonoscopy.
Is there a sense that,
if they had given you that colonoscopy
during that time,
we might be having
a different outcome here?
I absolutely believe that had they
given me a colonoscopy at that time,
that would have had
a different outcome in my life.
Uh, these stories, I mean-- I--
These are outrageous.
And it feels like it's been buried.
If another country was doing
to our veterans
what we allow to be done to our veterans,
we'd be at war already.
They tell you, "No man left behind."
But obviously we see it every single day,
in every war, in every generation,
from the Civil War
all the way up until right now.
Veterans always pay the price.
We are always put out in the forefront,
told that our backs are going to be had
by the country and the people
that we're supposedly fighting for.
And yet we have these conversations
every single time.
I want this to be the last time
we have this conversation.
I'm 34 years old.
I want to be the last generation
to have to sit around a table
and talk about this goddamn subject.
We need a government that's going to
actually put some skin in the game,
because it's really easy
to beat your chest, "Rah, rah, rah,"
the drums of war.
But all too often they're followed
by the bugles of taps,
because only a certain amount serve.
The people who send us don't have to go,
so they don't really care about it.
And I'm very animated about this because
I know over 50 people who have died.
Fifty. That is unbelievable.
From my time in service and time after.
It shouldn't be like that.
And we shouldn't have
this pain and burden.
We were told
we were gonna be taken care of.
Why are we having this conversation?
I gotta tell you, Isiah,
I would follow you most places.
-I find you…
-[others laugh]
You're very compelling.
If you were to say, "We're going now,"
I'll be like, "All right,
let me get my bag. I'm gonna just go."
I mean, I-- I-I-I-I believe in you.
And it's-- it's--
What animates all of these discussions,
I think, is the shock of it.
Wes, I want to give you
one of the last words because, you know,
I'm always moved by individuals
who are suffering in their own right
who decide to spend their energy
advocating for other people.
And I want to know what drives you
to continue bringing this story out.
At this point,
I feel like the canary in the coal mine,
and I'm just screaming my head off
about this topic
and trying to get people to listen.
[inhales deeply]
But it's too late for me.
But it's not too late for the next veteran
that walks down the hall of the VA
and goes into a medical appointment
and says to their doctor,
"I am experiencing X, Y and Z."
That doctor then says,
"Let's get you treated.
Let's get you diagnosed
with the proper diagnosis
and then work on prevention."
An ounce of prevention is worth
a pound of cure.
At this point, it's too late for-- for me,
and I have accepted that.
But if I can prevent just one other vet
and their family
from going through
what I have been through,
what my family has been through…
My son is going to grow up
without his dad.
My wife is going to live
the rest of her life
knowing that the last five years of
her spouse's life were in pain and misery.
If I can prevent just one family
from going through
what I'm going through right now,
I can kneel before my maker and say,
"I did a lot of bad shit in my life,
but I did one good thing,
and I advocated for those
that-- that didn't know."
That couldn't do it themselves
because they had--
their time had already passed.
They didn't have a voice.
Now I'm their voice.
Thanks so much, Wes.
We'll be right back. Thanks, guys.
-[audience applauding]
-Really.
My name's Dan Brewer,
lieutenant colonel, United States Army.
And I was chief of environmental in Iraq.
Things I saw that we were burning
in burn pits were poisons and carcinogens
and things you ought not to be,
uh, openly burning.
Then I could see that we were burning it.
You know, I came back and talked about
some of the issues and some of my concerns
and basically told to, you know,
keep my opinions to myself.
There was resistance to publishing.
I was told by some people…
…we're better off not to publish
the regulations…
…because if we don't know what to do
we can't be held accountable.
I served as chairman
of the federal Research Advisory Committee
on Gulf War Veterans' Illnesses…
…from 2002 to 2014.
In each major military conflict,
the number of veterans injured
by toxic exposures
vastly exceeds the number injured
by bombs and bullets.
Moreover, the government has consistently
refused to take responsibility
for these ill veterans.
This is a serious national health issue
facing our military,
and it has been dodged by the Department
of Veterans Affairs for the last 50 years.
[Chelsea] So, when you go talk
to the secretary of the VA,
ideally, what could come out of
this conversation when you talk to him,
like, at its best?
The short-term is obviously
presumption for the illnesses that we know
are caused by exposure to these toxins.
Just immediately doing that
and opening that up to--
-Walter Reed, you get world-class care…
-[others] Right.
…for wound and limb injury,
and all those kinds of things.
Do the same for toxic exposure.
[Reza] We asked Rosie on Zoom,
"What's the difference
between presumption and not?"
And she's just flat-out said
the difference is
veterans putting shotguns in their mouths.
No question.
Same question.
Like, at its worst, what happens?
Boy, it's--
It's one of our number one priorities.
And we really have to address it.
And we're really hoping that the science--
You know, we're looking into it
in a lot of different ways.
And we've already put asthma,
which is, as you know,
an enormous, uh, issue for people.
And rhinitis.
They'll just give bullshit.
This is the problem with--
with the comedy hybrid shows.
The whole time we're talking about this,
I'm just looking at number one
with an asterisk, "snake penis."
[all laughing]
[Stewart] All the years of The Daily Show,
I never did this.
Like went somewhere
and interviewed somebody.
Thanks for having me.
I'll just start simply,
which is, in your mind,
what are the biggest hurdles
to counteract toxic exposures for veterans
and, more specifically, burn pit exposure?
I would like to see us stop using
some of the technologies and the processes
that we've used to, you know,
get rid of stuff when we're deployed.
You're saying digging a hole
and burning everything in it with jet fuel
-might not be the answer…
-I'm just saying--
…in a modern society?
I'm saying that that's one thing
that, going forward,
I think we should get our hands around.
-Right.
-This-- The second thing is, um,
I want to make sure that--
And I am determined to, as secretary,
ensure that we are not passively waiting
for information
to help us address this problem
so that we can be in a position
to get the care and the benefits
that our vets have earned.
-So--
-Why do you think that hasn't occurred?
Certainly
burn pit exposure is not a surprise.
It's been 11 years.
-What more--
-Longer-- Actually longer, Jon.
-Probably longer.
-Right.
Because it goes back, really,
to the first Gulf War.
What information are they waiting for?
The researchers are trying to establish,
to a level of--
uh, that's demanded by the statutes,
by laws…
Mm-hmm.
…um, the certainty of the causation
of these illnesses.
Soldiers are dying of these illnesses,
and they can't get their health coverage
and their benefits.
So can you see that
it would be difficult for them to hear,
"We're still chasing down information?"
Yeah, absolutely.
When the information seems to
already exist.
These were outlawed in America
in the '70s.
I don't pretend that
my frustration reaches anywhere near…
-Sure.
-…the veterans' frustration.
-But I am frustrated. [chuckles]
-Sure.
Which is why I made this
the first thing we did out of the box.
We have now established a presumption that
that if you have rhinitis,
if you have sinusitis, if you have asthma…
Mm-hmm.
…we presume those came
from your time in the military,
and therefore you qualify
for care and benefits.
I think veterans would all say
sinusitis, rhinitis and asthma is fine…
-Not enough.
-…but that's not what's killing them.
Do I think that's done? No, I don't.
And I won't stop
until the presumptive lists include
well beyond that very meager list
that we've established.
What gave you the--
I guess, the confidence
that the science or the information
had reached the level
where you felt comfortable
giving presumption,
whereas with these other--
constrictive bronchiolitis…
-Right. Mm-hmm.
-…uh, lymphomas, colon cancers…
Why do you feel like
the information hasn't reached that level?
We are able to look and make the decision
on these first three conditions
-based on--
-Great. What were the metrics?
-We-- I wish-- [stammers]
-How did-- Okay, okay.
I want to be able to answer your question.
I just don't-- I haven't--
But you were satisfied that
that met the statute.
I was satisfied.
Our team of clinicians,
researchers told me
we can-- we can establish
that these three conditions
are presumed to be caused by being,
for their military service,
in these geographies during this time.
So if your science team gives you
a recommendation
-for these other conditions…
-Mm-hmm.
…then you will sign them,
you will pass those through?
Not only that.
I'm asking them to go get
as much science as there is on this.
Is the holdup, in your mind, money…
-No.
-…or information?
So it's not money?
Jon, we are-- We've just submitted
a budget for about $270 billion.
It's the second biggest budget
in the federal government.
A little less than half of that
is for the provision of health care.
We're not asking what the cost is.
So I'm-- I'm-- I'm not sure then.
If it's not money, and it's not science…
The biggest hurdle is establishing
that link, that scientific link.
-And I will be damned…
-Right.
…if I don't establish it.
I-I-I don't think you could say
that we haven't established a link
between exposure to jet fuel
and certain cancers
and autoimmune disorders. We have.
I want to make sure that…
[stammers]
…I also recognize that we do operate
within the context
of a series of requirements.
We have not been yet able
to meet the requirements.
Let's at least help people understand
what this bar
that we have to reach entails.
The process and the statute requires
to meet a certain degree of threshold.
-What is that threshold?
-Getting to one pa--
Taking one path to that threshold
is too slow.
Congress, you know, going back
to the Vietnam vets and Agent Orange,
required us to work
with the National Academies of Science.
From what I've seen is they've done a ton
of National Academy of Science studies.
And people wave those all the time
and say no link's been established.
Mm-hmm.
But unfortunately,
those studies all say insufficient data.
And that data is not going to be getting
any better 'cause it's provided by DOD.
And if it's insufficient in 2008,
it's going to be insufficient in 2020.
Mm-hmm. I believe that we--
There are rules of this process--
But why can't you define those rules?
I'm sorry. I wish I could.
-And maybe that's my weakness.
-But then how do you know
when you've achieved them?
By-- Because-- [stammers]
Because we have a series of requirements
that we have to meet
that we've been running against for years.
-What we've been doing is--
-But what are the requirements?
We've been running against them
with one stream of information
that comes from
the National Academies of Science.
-Right, which is paid for by the VA.
-And by--
-And the information comes from DOD.
-And what I'm--
And what I'm saying is, that's a mistake.
We should get the information,
and we now are getting information,
from a much wider range of science.
-Doesn't that information already exist?
-It does exist.
-Yeah, it does exist.
-And--
I'm saying go get it and let's put it
into our decision-making process.
And so I'm really trying to understand.
What's the bar you're looking for?
Because to not be able to articulate
that clearly really troubles me.
-I don't-- And by the way…
-And--
…I don't doubt your empathy and your care.
I really don't.
That's why I'm here talking to you.
-The beauty is I don't really give a shit.
-Not that it matters to you.
As you shouldn't.
So, um, I don't really care what you think
if I'm doing a good job or not.
I care what the vets think.
We've got-- I should show you this.
Uh, give me Isiah's fourth thing.
This is from the panel we did
with some veterans.
I just want you to listen to Isiah James,
who is an infantryman
who served in Iraq and Afghanistan.
[James] I was a healthy kid
when I went into the army.
I could run five miles
like it was nothing.
Now I can barely breathe at night
and have to use a breathing machine
and go through breathing treatments
and all these things.
And the United States military
and the government
doesn't give a damn about us
once we're out.
Once you're out, they do not care.
If another country was doing
to our veterans
what we allow to be done to our veterans,
we'd be at war already.
[Stewart] Um,
you know, that's-- that's hard to hear.
Clearly you'd agree with his sentiments,
I think, to some extent.
I agree with all of his sentiment.
-Each and every bit of it.
-Right.
And so you're asking
a very logical question,
which is, "Okay, so, do you need, like,
uh, three papers from five researchers,
or what is it?"
-Right.
-And I-- I don't know the answer to that.
But if you don't know the answer,
how do you know when you've found it?
-I guess I'm trying to figure out--
-Well, because--
As the executive,
you could do this in the stroke of a pen.
-And…
-I-- I wish I could, but I can't.
You know, I've asked for that. I've asked.
My point is,
I still can't understand what this bar is
that you talk about that's a statute.
-I wish-- I wish--
-If I look at the statute--
I wish it were like a puzzle.
I keep asking
the same series of questions.
-Right.
-Okay, so, like, we got all these pieces.
Just tell me where to put 'em,
then let's figure out
which piece we're missing.
-And then we'll build that.
-Right.
You know, I'm looking
at all the options available to me,
especially on the--
as I said to you earlier,
the most difficult cases.
Not even guys just like Isiah,
who's clearly, uh, paid a huge price.
Mm-hmm.
And I'm trying to figure out,
how do we get him into our care
in a timely way?
And then we can figure out
the benefits later.
This delay is killing people.
I mean, I think it's-- I don't--
That's not hyperbole.
This is about taking care of a problem
that we caused
through our negligence
to our own servicepeople.
I think you're trying to get me
to rebut that notion.
-And I'm telling you…
-No, I'm not.
-…I'm not rebutting that notion.
-I understand that.
-And--
-I'm trying to get you to…
I-I-- Honestly,
I think I'm trying to get you to say,
"The system can't tolerate it right now.
We need to expand that system
and make changes to that system,
and that takes money,
and this is what I need from Congress."
I don't believe that to be the case.
Would we be better served
by beginning a process of implementation
with auditing on the back end of it?
Because, you know,
I look at the 9/11 program, right?
It puts people
in a preventative screening program.
It gives them treatment
for these toxic exposures, from experts.
Mm-hmm.
It's a program
that very clearly can be scaled up.
Why not announce
a five-year implementation program
as opposed to
an individual-disease-to-disease…
I mean, why take the tack you're taking
and not that one?
What I'm doing right now,
I believe that that helped us,
in the first instance,
-establish the presumption…
-Right.
…that these three conditions are
service connected.
And I am hopeful--
And I will push the system
to establish that condition--
that presumption for other conditions.
And I think I can only get more
by this process that I've put in place
and by putting pressure on our experts,
who I think are the best in the world.
In that process, is there anything
that you need to help expedite that?
I really want vets to file their claims.
We can actually draw some conclusions
about the experience of people there
as a cohort.
-[man] Jon--
-Last question, then I'll let you go.
-Last question.
-Okay.
If you're satisfied that the process
will never provide you that cohort study,
-that perfect double blind…
-Yeah. Yeah.
…is there an expedited process
of presumption
that you would be satisfied
to move forward with?
You know, I-- I'm-- I'm, um…
I guess what I'd say is,
I'm-- I'm trying this process now.
If it's impossible
and we still end up in this position
where we can't get the vets, in a timely
way, what they need in terms of care,
then I would definitely look at anything.
-Thank you. Much appreciated. Thanks.
-Okay. Thanks, man.
[violin playing elegy]
[woman narrating] You know him
for his award-winning documentaries
on the Civil War,
baseball
and jazz.
Hi, I'm Ken Burns.
[narrator] This is Ken Burns Presents
Ken's Burn.
These burns are so hot
they'll blow your balls off.
The government's treatment of vets
is so bad,
it makes my friend Werner Herzog's film
Meeting Gorbachev
look like his film
Cave of Forgotten Dreams.
[audience chuckles]
[narrator] Ooh, third-degree burn.
That was Ken Burns's burn.
[audience chuckling, applauding]
Well, folks,
that was our very first program.
Thank you for watching.
But my guess is you didn't.
You're probably just going to
look at aggregated clips of it
somewhere on YouTube,
where you pirate Ted Lasso.
You don't even know
how to get Apple TV, do you?
You don't even know.
It's just a subscription service.
You hit the Apple thing.
It says a thing. You click off "I agree."
Don't read it. Just say you agree.
By the way, we have a podcast.
We're on the Internet
and an array of other platforms
I can't remember the names of.
But you can keep up with Burn Pits 360
and all the others working in this space
to get veterans the health care
and benefits they've earned.
Uh, thanks very much,
and we'll see you next time.
[audience cheering, applauding]
You guys have been in news
for a very long time.
Like, we sort of come
from a slightly different world.
[all laughing]
I'm already cringing, like, "Oh, God."
When, like--
When people see this, I'm gonna go
to the Comedy Cellar, you know, table.
And they're all gonna be like, "Ooh, look,
Mother Teresa just came in."
[all laughing]
[Stewart]
It's just gonna be a fucking nightmare.
with on this issue in DC who served--
You'll be working with them for months.
Then one day, they'll casually mention,
"Yeah, the nodules in my lungs"--
And I'm like, "What?"
People think veterans have
health care for life.
-[Stewart] Right.
-They're just like,
"I don't understand why that's a problem.
They have health care." And they don't.
With veterans in particular, there's
an assumption they're taken care of.
Are you seeing parallels
with the 9/11 first responder--
Sure. Absolutely.
This idea, you said, came from
a Daily Show episode you did, right?
-Yes.
-Was it the 9/11 one?
The 9/11 one.
It was for first responders who were sick.
We'd never done it.
You know, the show was always, like,
either an author of a book
-no one gave a shit-- [laughs]
-[all laughing]
[woman] Or an actress from a movie
who you didn't know.
Let's be honest.
So, we-- we had them on,
and they just… told their story.
Which, right, is the idea here?
Let's have the first act be
sort of a road map, like a mall map.
You know, "You are here."
For whatever--
whatever issue we're dealing with.
And then that second act or whatever,
let's find the-- the-- the stakeholders,
the voices that can give
that witness testimony.
No, I like this. Let's see.
This is the show.
-[Reza] Yeah. That's the show.
-[Brinda] Oh, that's it.
This is what's coming.
[Brinda]
I think that's act one up there. [laughs]
How can that not be the show?
[laughing]
[audience cheering, applauding]
Hello.
My name's Jon Stewart.
You may remember me from such hits as…
MTV's You Wrote It, You Watch It
and Elmopalooza!
[audience chuckles]
[audience laughs]
I guess that answers
whether this show will be funny or not.
[laughing continues]
[laughing]
I've been away from television
for some time,
and before we get started, uh,
I really wanted to address
the elephant in the room.
Um…
This is what I look like now.
[audience laughs]
I'm not happy about it either.
Very few people would be happy
looking like an anti-smoking poster.
Thought you people liked me.
Uh, why don't we begin tonight,
uh, slowly?
First show,
let's kinda ease our way into it.
Let's try something bipartisan
and noncontroversial:
veterans.
[male announcer]
Military Appreciation Night,
presented by Pacific Premier Bank…
Thank you for your service.
We thank you for your service.
-[repeating] Thank you for your service.
-One, two, three, four…
[male announcer 2]
The Price Is Right salutes our troops!
-I love you all! Kissy, kissy!
-Yeah.
-…five, six, seven, eight…
-[repeating] Thank you for your service.
[male announcer 3] If you serve, you save!
[male announcer 4]
Free all-you-can-eat hotcakes.
[others] …eighteen, nineteen, twenty…
Thank you. I love you all so much.
And may God protect our troops.
Come on! We're America!
[audience laughs]
[laughs louder]
Angry Biden! We're American!
Yes, in this divided country,
the one thing
that we seem to be able to agree on
is that we love the troops.
But unfortunately…
One in five US military personnel
serving in combat
will suffer some form of PTSD.
One in three vets,
they say they experience underemployment.
[male reporter] One in six vets
who served in Iraq or Afghanistan,
addicted to drugs or alcohol.
Nearly 50,000 veterans will experience
homelessness each year.
[female reporter] According to
the Department of Veterans Affairs,
17 US veterans
take their own lives each day.
Yes, we love our vets.
But you know the old saying,
"If you love someone,
let them go fuck themselves."
Turns out, we support our troops
unless they actually need support,
a kind of performative patriotism
that barely seems to register
the suffering
that their sacrifice sometimes brings.
For instance, just last summer,
Jake Tapper broke this story.
A serious story now
that you may not have heard about:
The US military has long used burn pits
to destroy all sorts of waste,
from chemicals to metals to human waste,
setting fires that churned out black smoke
near military bases.
Service members have reported
symptoms as serious as cancer,
which they blame on their exposure
to the burn pits.
Holy shit.
Well, as-- as troop-loving Americans,
the time to rise up
and defend our veterans
was probably 2008,
when this story was first breaking news.
A stunning statement
from the United States military.
It says open burn pits in Iraq exposed
thousands of troops to toxic chemicals.
You're probably wondering,
"What exactly is a burn pit?"
Well, it turns out,
when you invade a country,
they don't tell you when trash day is.
So everything
that the military wants to get rid of,
from rotting food to old uniforms,
to hazardous materials,
medical waste, batteries,
to ammunition, armaments, entire trucks,
nuclear waste, amputated body parts,
and the maraschino cherry:
metric tons of human feces--
Which, obviously, you don't want
to pile that shit up on your base.
You just want to put it
right next to your base
and then pour jet fuel on it
and light it on fire.
Perhaps a visual would be helpful.
[Stewart] This black plume of smoke
is coming from a burn pit.
And these suckers are big,
sometimes as big as 10 acres.
And all of the soldiers on the base
breathed in that smoke 24-7.
It got in their food,
their clothes, their eyes.
They could not escape it.
And again, I cannot stress this enough.
The most powerful and lavishly funded,
technologically sophisticated
military apparatus in the world
got rid of their trash
the same way Jake Paul does.
[man] Oh, wow.
Oh, God, it's already in flames.
-Oh, my God!
-[man 2] Whoa, whoa!
There's gonna be a kaboom!
-Whoo!
-Whoo!
[audience laughs]
By the way, I'm boxing him
on a pay-per-view next Saturday.
[audience laughing, applauding]
I'm urging you not to bet on me.
My-- My bones are made of dust.
Burn pits!
Burn pits.
We did that to ourselves.
And as these smoldering ashtrays
of freedom burned,
they released a bouquet
of poisonous carcinogens,
like benzene and dioxins,
and it has had devastating consequences
for the people who served.
The diagnosis was
constrictive bronchiolitis.
They diagnosed me
with hypersensitivity pneumonitis
and pulmonary fibrosis.
There's a mass in his brain,
and we think that it's cancerous.
And I had a form of pancreatic cancer.
I have lung cancer.
Lymphoma cancer.
It was squa-- squamous cell carcinoma.
It's not a type of cancer
for a young 27-year-old guy to have.
Now, here's the fun part.
Veterans who suffered
these terrible health effects
from toxic exposures to burn pits
are being denied health care and benefits
from the VA.
Right now we're a quarter million dollars
in debt from cancer costs.
Um, we're bankrupt, um,
and the VA still denies my claim,
that it's not the--
that it's not from exposures.
Over 70% of claims filed by veterans
suffering from burn pit exposure
have been denied by the VA.
Which is kinda bad news for
the more than 3 million service members
who have been exposed to burn pits.
And why are these toxic wounds
being denied?
It's, uh, my understanding that
we do not have,
uh, specific evidence that ties,
uh, these kinds of, uh,
disposal facilities to, uh, health issues.
First of all, fuck you for calling
burn pits "disposal facilities."
And I'm not a body language expert,
but I'm pretty sure
that guy was doing every tell possible
on lying.
"Well, I, uh, look down.
I… I shift paper.
And now I'm going to make up
a ridiculous euphemism for burn pits."
What the DOD and the VA are saying is that
they just don't have the proof,
the scientific evidence,
that exposure to benzene and dioxins
in burning pits made soldiers sick.
And the VA and the DOD keep paying
for studies to find the proof
using data provided to them
by the Pentagon.
But lo and behold,
those studies are inconclusive.
Hmm.
So, may I be of service?
Here's a classic
from Pert Plus model Dan Rather.
Exposure to benzene fumes is toxic.
A widely suspected cause
of blood disorders, including leukemia.
How about science from Chris Wallace
looking like Chris Pratt
playing Chris Wallace?
A preliminary government study
strongly suggests
that the chemical dioxin
causes cancer in humans.
Or maybe you'd like
some science from the EPA.
They're right down the hall from you.
They work in your building.
The health risks associated with dioxin…
…are greater than previously suspected.
Or just maybe the DOD want their science
from a memo that they wrote
to their fucking selves.
Because in 2009,
the DOD issued an official
internal environmental regulation
that acknowledged, quote,
"Burn pits inherently create health issues
and should be terminated
as soon as practical, in order to protect
the life, health and safety
of USCENTCOM and coalition personnel."
And in 2010, the VA circulated
an official internal memo
telling VA medical examiners
to be on the lookout
for conditions related to the exposure
of these chemicals:
particulate matter,
polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons,
volatile organic compounds,
dioxins and furans.
We know the chemicals from burn pits are
the same chemicals in Agent Orange
and the same chemicals at Ground Zero.
And we know exposure
to those chemicals makes you sick.
We know.
They know.
We know they know.
And now I think they know
that we know that they know.
So why is the VA denying these claims?
Well, no surprise.
The reason is money.
He was a healthy guy when he got back.
He was a healthy guy
while he was out there.
But then you wanna say, "Oh, no."
If it doesn't get--
If they don't see symptoms
within the first 12 months
of them coming back,
and he doesn't get a diagnosis, forget it.
They're screwed.
Because they don't see it as
it's service related.
The VA's new model is, uh,
"Delay, deny, hope you die."
Wow. "Delay, deny, hope you die."
There's a slogan for our flag pins.
So now veterans are dying
and going bankrupt
because the DOD and VA are forcing them
to indisputably prove a connection
that they already internally admit exists.
And what makes it
so incredibly demoralizing
is that they are holding the veterans
to a standard of proof
far beyond the one our own government used
to send them to war in the first place.
We cannot wait for the final proof,
the smoking gun
that could come in the form
of a mushroom cloud.
They couldn't wait for the final proof
in their effort to protect us all
from being exposed
to the terrible health effects
of a toxic cloud.
We went there to find
weapons of mass destruction.
And when they weren't there,
we made our own.
We'll be right back.
[audience applauding]
[Stewart] Imagine this baking dish is
a gigantic hole in the ground,
like ten acres.
First, we're gonna add
our dry ingredients: old uniforms,
truck tires, plastic bags, batteries.
Then the wet ingredients: medical waste,
random trash, a bunch of piss,
an absolute shit ton of human shit.
Sprinkle in some amputated body parts.
Don't ask me where I got these.
And then we're gonna just add in
some jet fuel.
Mix it all together, and…
-[explosion]
-Fuck!
-Oh, fuck!
-[audience laughs]
That's a burn pit.
Uh, if you're gonna try it at home, don't.
It is literally illegal to do this
in the United States.
Thanks to the DOD for the recipe.
Like and comment for Part 2.
Welcome back to the program.
Thanks for joining us.
Uh, right now we're gonna talk
to some of the people
who are actually living through
what we were just talking about.
First, Captain Le Roy Torres.
Served in the army for 23 years.
Cofounder of Burn Pits 360 with his wife,
Rosie Torres, who also joins us.
Le Roy, Rosie,
I'm gonna start with you guys.
I met you guys about three years ago.
Le Roy, can you describe your experience
having been in Iraq,
uh, what you were exposed to
and what happened since?
When I first arrived there,
I just noticed this stench.
A horrific stench of just,
like, burning rubber.
It was this-- this massive, uh,
just huge hole where they were just
burning all this trash.
Within about a month,
I was having respiratory issues,
unexplained headaches, GI issues,
and I was actually quarantined
for 72 hours.
They said it was the Iraqi crud
that I was dealing with,
that eventually
my system would overcome that.
"Iraqi crud." That's a medical term,
I believe. Iraqi crud.
That's what the doctors call it.
And you get back then
from your deployment,
and you were in the Texas, uh, state--
-You were a Texas state trooper?
-Yes.
And what happens then?
[sighs] Well, I come back,
and I start missing a lot of work.
Eventually, August of 2010,
I was told one morning,
"You can't come back to work.
You may be contagious.
You need to get yourself checked out.
There is definitely
something wrong with you."
And that's
when our personal journey started
with, uh, seeking-- trying to seek
specialized medical health care…
-[Stewart] Right.
-…for my issues.
So you end up actually having to leave
the state troopers.
-I was forced to, yes.
-[Stewart] You were forced to.
Now-- Now, Rosie, Le Roy comes home.
He's clearly suffering
from all these conditions.
-And you're on your own.
-[Rosie] Right. Mmm.
[Stewart] So you've got to become your own
doctor, lawyer, advocate, everything.
Right. You know, we're juggling,
trying to figure out, like,
how we move forward in our lives
because we knew
that we were up against two systems:
his employer, his civilian employer, uh--
Three. DOD, uh, trying to, you know,
force that medical retirement as well,
and then the VA.
Trying to figure out
how do we file a claim
because we're gonna end up
homeless on the street
if we don't figure this out quickly.
And you and I have talked about this.
All this has left you, you know,
at times, in a pretty dark place.
Yes. Very dark place.
Um, and I'll be honest.
In 2016, I attempted to take my life.
But thankfully for my service dog, Hope,
and my wife that I'm still here today.
And, uh--
And I can't tell you
how inspired I am by you guys.
I mean, you know, I've been banging around
with this for a couple years,
but you guys have been at it for so long.
Julie, you, you know-- [stammers]
You worked as a--
a clinical researcher in the VA…
…but you had also suffered
from the burn pits.
Yes.
So if you can't navigate that system,
and you are in it,
what chances does anybody have?
It's just a really hard system
to navigate,
and there's a lot of different layers
and bureaucracy and red tape.
When you apply for benefits,
you have to go through rigorous testing
to sort of prove what you have
and if it's service connected.
So you can be diagnosed with a cancer,
and you can still be denied
and say there's no link.
The interesting thing here-- We're there.
And you can tell where the audience is--
I think people are stunned.
Because I think the thought process is,
"We love our troops."
The rhetoric is, "We love the troops.
We support the troops."
And troops get health care, don't they?
But it's not like that.
And, Isiah, you know,
you actually were on the pits.
-You were stirring these things.
-Yes.
What's your experience been with this?
Absolute horror and nightmare.
Everything we had-- trash, food--
The worst was human waste.
Can I curse on here?
-No!
-Oh. Well, everywhere--
-[chuckles] I don't know--
-Isiah!
What kind of fucking program do you think
I'm running here?
So every week, each platoon got shit duty.
So all of the human waste from an entire
company of grunts has to be stirred,
and it bubbles, and it's--
It's a horrible, horrible thing.
And that's one of the reasons I was
retired from the army at 27 years old,
because I'm 90% disabled
because I have lung scarring.
And I was a healthy kid
when I went into the army.
I could run five miles
like it was nothing.
Now I can barely breathe at night
and have to use a breathing machine
and go through breathing treatments
and all these things.
Burn pits is
our generation's Agent Orange.
A lot of my friends
who were young like me,
with all the burn pits we had,
started getting cancer.
And the United States military
and the government
doesn't give a damn about us
once we're out.
Once you're out, they do not care.
And it's also, you know, to some extent,
part of it is a function of--
It's such a small percentage
of the country that serves.
Yes.
So those problems don't get communicated
out to the general population.
And I can tell you,
just from the audience's response--
And this is a very broad-based selection
of Upper West Side Jews.
-This is…
-[audience, panelists laughing]
But it's a surprise to people.
Gina, I want to talk to you…
…because I couldn't believe
how much you had to do,
as your husband was-- was sick and dying--
What-- The burden of proof is somehow
on the sick veteran and his family.
Well, I didn't know that his cancer
was related to burn pits or anything…
…until probably about six to eight months
before he passed away.
And with the help of Rosie and Le Roy,
um, I filled out the paperwork,
and, I mean, they didn't even--
I sent stacks of information
from Memorial Sloan Kettering
because he wasn't treated
at a VA facility,
because, again,
I did not know it was VA-related,
and we live close enough to Memorial
that we went to the top facility
for his cancer,
and they don't even know to look for this.
From March of 2003 to August of 2003,
he was in Iraq.
He slept, mmm, probably from where I am
-to where the end of your rows are…
-[Stewart] Right.
…for six months, away from a burning pit.
And they'd wake up choking
in the middle of the night.
He was diagnosed at one point
with hypertension.
Well, now I come to find out that
that's a bit of a red flag
and should push you to go get
some other tests
and to investigate a little bit further.
[stammers] We had no idea.
That's the VA
and the Marine Corps's responsibility.
It's their responsibility,
and they're failing.
When somebody comes in and tells you
that they were in the military,
and they were in a war,
there should be
a toxic panel done on them.
You brought up something really, I think,
crucial to this entire conversation.
Because the VA
is an advocate for the veteran.
That's their charter.
But for some reason,
they don't recognize toxic exposure
as an IED that goes off in your body
seven years later.
And by having that denial
from, uh, service-related--
They don't have to pay out.
Rosie, you know, you've all worked
to create legislation on presumption.
We presume that any veteran
who has served in the Global War on Terror
has been exposed to these toxic exposures.
And these list of illnesses that we know
are caused by these types of exposures
will be covered.
And I do feel that, because of
the conditions that are surfacing
from inhaling such toxic chemicals,
um, you know,
the only way to go is-- is presumption.
And if they know that
you're being exposed to these things
and they don't put you through a panel--
And, Wes, I want to thank you
for being patient there,
but that gets to your story.
You come back,
and you're going to doctors
because you're having stomach issues.
So when I first came home
from Afghanistan in 2011--
About two years after I came home,
I was experiencing
frequent bowel movements,
multiple times a day.
And I was noticing blood.
And I went into the VA.
And it wasn't until 2017
when I was diagnosed
with stage IV colon cancer.
And-- And when you first went to the VA,
was there any sense of, say,
"Hey man, stomach issues,
and you were exposed to burn pits.
Let's get you some diagnostic tests."
Or did they not even consider
these kinds of things?
So, I was diagnosed
with irritable bowel syndrome,
and one of the things is,
to be diagnosed
with irritable bowel syndrome,
you have to have a colonoscopy
to rule out everything else.
And I was never given
the option of a colonoscopy.
Is there a sense that,
if they had given you that colonoscopy
during that time,
we might be having
a different outcome here?
I absolutely believe that had they
given me a colonoscopy at that time,
that would have had
a different outcome in my life.
Uh, these stories, I mean-- I--
These are outrageous.
And it feels like it's been buried.
If another country was doing
to our veterans
what we allow to be done to our veterans,
we'd be at war already.
They tell you, "No man left behind."
But obviously we see it every single day,
in every war, in every generation,
from the Civil War
all the way up until right now.
Veterans always pay the price.
We are always put out in the forefront,
told that our backs are going to be had
by the country and the people
that we're supposedly fighting for.
And yet we have these conversations
every single time.
I want this to be the last time
we have this conversation.
I'm 34 years old.
I want to be the last generation
to have to sit around a table
and talk about this goddamn subject.
We need a government that's going to
actually put some skin in the game,
because it's really easy
to beat your chest, "Rah, rah, rah,"
the drums of war.
But all too often they're followed
by the bugles of taps,
because only a certain amount serve.
The people who send us don't have to go,
so they don't really care about it.
And I'm very animated about this because
I know over 50 people who have died.
Fifty. That is unbelievable.
From my time in service and time after.
It shouldn't be like that.
And we shouldn't have
this pain and burden.
We were told
we were gonna be taken care of.
Why are we having this conversation?
I gotta tell you, Isiah,
I would follow you most places.
-I find you…
-[others laugh]
You're very compelling.
If you were to say, "We're going now,"
I'll be like, "All right,
let me get my bag. I'm gonna just go."
I mean, I-- I-I-I-I believe in you.
And it's-- it's--
What animates all of these discussions,
I think, is the shock of it.
Wes, I want to give you
one of the last words because, you know,
I'm always moved by individuals
who are suffering in their own right
who decide to spend their energy
advocating for other people.
And I want to know what drives you
to continue bringing this story out.
At this point,
I feel like the canary in the coal mine,
and I'm just screaming my head off
about this topic
and trying to get people to listen.
[inhales deeply]
But it's too late for me.
But it's not too late for the next veteran
that walks down the hall of the VA
and goes into a medical appointment
and says to their doctor,
"I am experiencing X, Y and Z."
That doctor then says,
"Let's get you treated.
Let's get you diagnosed
with the proper diagnosis
and then work on prevention."
An ounce of prevention is worth
a pound of cure.
At this point, it's too late for-- for me,
and I have accepted that.
But if I can prevent just one other vet
and their family
from going through
what I have been through,
what my family has been through…
My son is going to grow up
without his dad.
My wife is going to live
the rest of her life
knowing that the last five years of
her spouse's life were in pain and misery.
If I can prevent just one family
from going through
what I'm going through right now,
I can kneel before my maker and say,
"I did a lot of bad shit in my life,
but I did one good thing,
and I advocated for those
that-- that didn't know."
That couldn't do it themselves
because they had--
their time had already passed.
They didn't have a voice.
Now I'm their voice.
Thanks so much, Wes.
We'll be right back. Thanks, guys.
-[audience applauding]
-Really.
My name's Dan Brewer,
lieutenant colonel, United States Army.
And I was chief of environmental in Iraq.
Things I saw that we were burning
in burn pits were poisons and carcinogens
and things you ought not to be,
uh, openly burning.
Then I could see that we were burning it.
You know, I came back and talked about
some of the issues and some of my concerns
and basically told to, you know,
keep my opinions to myself.
There was resistance to publishing.
I was told by some people…
…we're better off not to publish
the regulations…
…because if we don't know what to do
we can't be held accountable.
I served as chairman
of the federal Research Advisory Committee
on Gulf War Veterans' Illnesses…
…from 2002 to 2014.
In each major military conflict,
the number of veterans injured
by toxic exposures
vastly exceeds the number injured
by bombs and bullets.
Moreover, the government has consistently
refused to take responsibility
for these ill veterans.
This is a serious national health issue
facing our military,
and it has been dodged by the Department
of Veterans Affairs for the last 50 years.
[Chelsea] So, when you go talk
to the secretary of the VA,
ideally, what could come out of
this conversation when you talk to him,
like, at its best?
The short-term is obviously
presumption for the illnesses that we know
are caused by exposure to these toxins.
Just immediately doing that
and opening that up to--
-Walter Reed, you get world-class care…
-[others] Right.
…for wound and limb injury,
and all those kinds of things.
Do the same for toxic exposure.
[Reza] We asked Rosie on Zoom,
"What's the difference
between presumption and not?"
And she's just flat-out said
the difference is
veterans putting shotguns in their mouths.
No question.
Same question.
Like, at its worst, what happens?
Boy, it's--
It's one of our number one priorities.
And we really have to address it.
And we're really hoping that the science--
You know, we're looking into it
in a lot of different ways.
And we've already put asthma,
which is, as you know,
an enormous, uh, issue for people.
And rhinitis.
They'll just give bullshit.
This is the problem with--
with the comedy hybrid shows.
The whole time we're talking about this,
I'm just looking at number one
with an asterisk, "snake penis."
[all laughing]
[Stewart] All the years of The Daily Show,
I never did this.
Like went somewhere
and interviewed somebody.
Thanks for having me.
I'll just start simply,
which is, in your mind,
what are the biggest hurdles
to counteract toxic exposures for veterans
and, more specifically, burn pit exposure?
I would like to see us stop using
some of the technologies and the processes
that we've used to, you know,
get rid of stuff when we're deployed.
You're saying digging a hole
and burning everything in it with jet fuel
-might not be the answer…
-I'm just saying--
…in a modern society?
I'm saying that that's one thing
that, going forward,
I think we should get our hands around.
-Right.
-This-- The second thing is, um,
I want to make sure that--
And I am determined to, as secretary,
ensure that we are not passively waiting
for information
to help us address this problem
so that we can be in a position
to get the care and the benefits
that our vets have earned.
-So--
-Why do you think that hasn't occurred?
Certainly
burn pit exposure is not a surprise.
It's been 11 years.
-What more--
-Longer-- Actually longer, Jon.
-Probably longer.
-Right.
Because it goes back, really,
to the first Gulf War.
What information are they waiting for?
The researchers are trying to establish,
to a level of--
uh, that's demanded by the statutes,
by laws…
Mm-hmm.
…um, the certainty of the causation
of these illnesses.
Soldiers are dying of these illnesses,
and they can't get their health coverage
and their benefits.
So can you see that
it would be difficult for them to hear,
"We're still chasing down information?"
Yeah, absolutely.
When the information seems to
already exist.
These were outlawed in America
in the '70s.
I don't pretend that
my frustration reaches anywhere near…
-Sure.
-…the veterans' frustration.
-But I am frustrated. [chuckles]
-Sure.
Which is why I made this
the first thing we did out of the box.
We have now established a presumption that
that if you have rhinitis,
if you have sinusitis, if you have asthma…
Mm-hmm.
…we presume those came
from your time in the military,
and therefore you qualify
for care and benefits.
I think veterans would all say
sinusitis, rhinitis and asthma is fine…
-Not enough.
-…but that's not what's killing them.
Do I think that's done? No, I don't.
And I won't stop
until the presumptive lists include
well beyond that very meager list
that we've established.
What gave you the--
I guess, the confidence
that the science or the information
had reached the level
where you felt comfortable
giving presumption,
whereas with these other--
constrictive bronchiolitis…
-Right. Mm-hmm.
-…uh, lymphomas, colon cancers…
Why do you feel like
the information hasn't reached that level?
We are able to look and make the decision
on these first three conditions
-based on--
-Great. What were the metrics?
-We-- I wish-- [stammers]
-How did-- Okay, okay.
I want to be able to answer your question.
I just don't-- I haven't--
But you were satisfied that
that met the statute.
I was satisfied.
Our team of clinicians,
researchers told me
we can-- we can establish
that these three conditions
are presumed to be caused by being,
for their military service,
in these geographies during this time.
So if your science team gives you
a recommendation
-for these other conditions…
-Mm-hmm.
…then you will sign them,
you will pass those through?
Not only that.
I'm asking them to go get
as much science as there is on this.
Is the holdup, in your mind, money…
-No.
-…or information?
So it's not money?
Jon, we are-- We've just submitted
a budget for about $270 billion.
It's the second biggest budget
in the federal government.
A little less than half of that
is for the provision of health care.
We're not asking what the cost is.
So I'm-- I'm-- I'm not sure then.
If it's not money, and it's not science…
The biggest hurdle is establishing
that link, that scientific link.
-And I will be damned…
-Right.
…if I don't establish it.
I-I-I don't think you could say
that we haven't established a link
between exposure to jet fuel
and certain cancers
and autoimmune disorders. We have.
I want to make sure that…
[stammers]
…I also recognize that we do operate
within the context
of a series of requirements.
We have not been yet able
to meet the requirements.
Let's at least help people understand
what this bar
that we have to reach entails.
The process and the statute requires
to meet a certain degree of threshold.
-What is that threshold?
-Getting to one pa--
Taking one path to that threshold
is too slow.
Congress, you know, going back
to the Vietnam vets and Agent Orange,
required us to work
with the National Academies of Science.
From what I've seen is they've done a ton
of National Academy of Science studies.
And people wave those all the time
and say no link's been established.
Mm-hmm.
But unfortunately,
those studies all say insufficient data.
And that data is not going to be getting
any better 'cause it's provided by DOD.
And if it's insufficient in 2008,
it's going to be insufficient in 2020.
Mm-hmm. I believe that we--
There are rules of this process--
But why can't you define those rules?
I'm sorry. I wish I could.
-And maybe that's my weakness.
-But then how do you know
when you've achieved them?
By-- Because-- [stammers]
Because we have a series of requirements
that we have to meet
that we've been running against for years.
-What we've been doing is--
-But what are the requirements?
We've been running against them
with one stream of information
that comes from
the National Academies of Science.
-Right, which is paid for by the VA.
-And by--
-And the information comes from DOD.
-And what I'm--
And what I'm saying is, that's a mistake.
We should get the information,
and we now are getting information,
from a much wider range of science.
-Doesn't that information already exist?
-It does exist.
-Yeah, it does exist.
-And--
I'm saying go get it and let's put it
into our decision-making process.
And so I'm really trying to understand.
What's the bar you're looking for?
Because to not be able to articulate
that clearly really troubles me.
-I don't-- And by the way…
-And--
…I don't doubt your empathy and your care.
I really don't.
That's why I'm here talking to you.
-The beauty is I don't really give a shit.
-Not that it matters to you.
As you shouldn't.
So, um, I don't really care what you think
if I'm doing a good job or not.
I care what the vets think.
We've got-- I should show you this.
Uh, give me Isiah's fourth thing.
This is from the panel we did
with some veterans.
I just want you to listen to Isiah James,
who is an infantryman
who served in Iraq and Afghanistan.
[James] I was a healthy kid
when I went into the army.
I could run five miles
like it was nothing.
Now I can barely breathe at night
and have to use a breathing machine
and go through breathing treatments
and all these things.
And the United States military
and the government
doesn't give a damn about us
once we're out.
Once you're out, they do not care.
If another country was doing
to our veterans
what we allow to be done to our veterans,
we'd be at war already.
[Stewart] Um,
you know, that's-- that's hard to hear.
Clearly you'd agree with his sentiments,
I think, to some extent.
I agree with all of his sentiment.
-Each and every bit of it.
-Right.
And so you're asking
a very logical question,
which is, "Okay, so, do you need, like,
uh, three papers from five researchers,
or what is it?"
-Right.
-And I-- I don't know the answer to that.
But if you don't know the answer,
how do you know when you've found it?
-I guess I'm trying to figure out--
-Well, because--
As the executive,
you could do this in the stroke of a pen.
-And…
-I-- I wish I could, but I can't.
You know, I've asked for that. I've asked.
My point is,
I still can't understand what this bar is
that you talk about that's a statute.
-I wish-- I wish--
-If I look at the statute--
I wish it were like a puzzle.
I keep asking
the same series of questions.
-Right.
-Okay, so, like, we got all these pieces.
Just tell me where to put 'em,
then let's figure out
which piece we're missing.
-And then we'll build that.
-Right.
You know, I'm looking
at all the options available to me,
especially on the--
as I said to you earlier,
the most difficult cases.
Not even guys just like Isiah,
who's clearly, uh, paid a huge price.
Mm-hmm.
And I'm trying to figure out,
how do we get him into our care
in a timely way?
And then we can figure out
the benefits later.
This delay is killing people.
I mean, I think it's-- I don't--
That's not hyperbole.
This is about taking care of a problem
that we caused
through our negligence
to our own servicepeople.
I think you're trying to get me
to rebut that notion.
-And I'm telling you…
-No, I'm not.
-…I'm not rebutting that notion.
-I understand that.
-And--
-I'm trying to get you to…
I-I-- Honestly,
I think I'm trying to get you to say,
"The system can't tolerate it right now.
We need to expand that system
and make changes to that system,
and that takes money,
and this is what I need from Congress."
I don't believe that to be the case.
Would we be better served
by beginning a process of implementation
with auditing on the back end of it?
Because, you know,
I look at the 9/11 program, right?
It puts people
in a preventative screening program.
It gives them treatment
for these toxic exposures, from experts.
Mm-hmm.
It's a program
that very clearly can be scaled up.
Why not announce
a five-year implementation program
as opposed to
an individual-disease-to-disease…
I mean, why take the tack you're taking
and not that one?
What I'm doing right now,
I believe that that helped us,
in the first instance,
-establish the presumption…
-Right.
…that these three conditions are
service connected.
And I am hopeful--
And I will push the system
to establish that condition--
that presumption for other conditions.
And I think I can only get more
by this process that I've put in place
and by putting pressure on our experts,
who I think are the best in the world.
In that process, is there anything
that you need to help expedite that?
I really want vets to file their claims.
We can actually draw some conclusions
about the experience of people there
as a cohort.
-[man] Jon--
-Last question, then I'll let you go.
-Last question.
-Okay.
If you're satisfied that the process
will never provide you that cohort study,
-that perfect double blind…
-Yeah. Yeah.
…is there an expedited process
of presumption
that you would be satisfied
to move forward with?
You know, I-- I'm-- I'm, um…
I guess what I'd say is,
I'm-- I'm trying this process now.
If it's impossible
and we still end up in this position
where we can't get the vets, in a timely
way, what they need in terms of care,
then I would definitely look at anything.
-Thank you. Much appreciated. Thanks.
-Okay. Thanks, man.
[violin playing elegy]
[woman narrating] You know him
for his award-winning documentaries
on the Civil War,
baseball
and jazz.
Hi, I'm Ken Burns.
[narrator] This is Ken Burns Presents
Ken's Burn.
These burns are so hot
they'll blow your balls off.
The government's treatment of vets
is so bad,
it makes my friend Werner Herzog's film
Meeting Gorbachev
look like his film
Cave of Forgotten Dreams.
[audience chuckles]
[narrator] Ooh, third-degree burn.
That was Ken Burns's burn.
[audience chuckling, applauding]
Well, folks,
that was our very first program.
Thank you for watching.
But my guess is you didn't.
You're probably just going to
look at aggregated clips of it
somewhere on YouTube,
where you pirate Ted Lasso.
You don't even know
how to get Apple TV, do you?
You don't even know.
It's just a subscription service.
You hit the Apple thing.
It says a thing. You click off "I agree."
Don't read it. Just say you agree.
By the way, we have a podcast.
We're on the Internet
and an array of other platforms
I can't remember the names of.
But you can keep up with Burn Pits 360
and all the others working in this space
to get veterans the health care
and benefits they've earned.
Uh, thanks very much,
and we'll see you next time.
[audience cheering, applauding]
You guys have been in news
for a very long time.
Like, we sort of come
from a slightly different world.
[all laughing]
I'm already cringing, like, "Oh, God."
When, like--
When people see this, I'm gonna go
to the Comedy Cellar, you know, table.
And they're all gonna be like, "Ooh, look,
Mother Teresa just came in."
[all laughing]
[Stewart]
It's just gonna be a fucking nightmare.