This Is Pop (2021) s01e01 Episode Script
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[radio static]
- ["Uhh Ahh" by Boyz II Men playing]
- Ten, nine, eight, seven ♪
Six, five, four, three, two, one ♪
Injection, fellas ♪
Uhh, ahh, uhh, ahh ♪
- Don't worry 'bout a thing baby ♪
- Uhh ♪
[Nick Lachey] Boyz II Men,
when they hit, it was something new
and it was something different.
[Jason King] When you would hear
Boyz II Men on the radio,
you knew exactly who it was.
[Chris Molanphy]
It is about feeling your feelings.
It's about being unbound.
[Kelley Carter]
And the kids loved it almost immediately.
[reporter] In Melbourne, Australia
this week, dozens of injuries
as fans were caught in the frenzy
to see the American group Boyz II Men.
Twenty thousand teenagers appeared
hoping to get a glimpse of the band.
[crowd screaming]
They broke the code of Hot 100 charts
and no one talks about it.
[upbeat music playing]
[Bivins] We murdered
that shit in the '90s.
That was until the other guys came.
As soon as Boyz II Men hit, we started
emulating everything they did.
[Babyface] That's what
changed the game for Boyz II Men.
[Nathan Morris] Everything hasn't
been rosy for the group.
We always get the question:
"Where'd you guys go?"
- Are we ready, guys? Let's do it.
- [director] Ready.
["I Love Music" by The O'Jays playing]
We would take
that 23 trolley from Germantown
all the way down
to North Philadelphia, the projects,
and we would sing any song
that we could possibly think of.
My mom actually taught me harmony.
People would be looking like,
"What's going on?"
"This little boy and this little lady
is, like, just singing."
The sound of Philadelphia
was resonating through the streets.
I love music
Just as long as it's grooving ♪
[Shawn Stockman] My mother,
when she was cleaning the house,
she'd have the windows open,
and she played LTD
and Harold Melvin the Blue Notes.
While driving in the car,
I got the likes of The Carpenters
and Alan Parsons Project.
[laughs]
[Nathan] We had the best of both worlds
because we lived in Philly,
so we got all the Philly sound
and then we also got
the popular sound of the world,
which at that time was Motown.
[upbeat Motown music playing]
[Wanya] There was always
a bunch of Gamble and Huff songs
and Teddy Pendergrass and Patti Labelle.
That type of music was molding us
for the type of musicians
and the type of music
we would create years later.
[Stockman] I would watch Michael Jackson
and Prince and I would daydream
Like, "Wow,
how would it be to be on stage,
singing in front of a bunch of people,
with my hands stretched out?"
[fans screaming]
I would walk down the street
and I would see a place
and I would want to be there
because I saw something artistic going on.
Hence going to the High School
For the Creative and Performing Arts.
[school bell ringing]
[easy-listening 70s music laying]
[Nathan] Years ago,
they used to have this TV show called Fame
where people used to dance in the hallways
and sing in the lunchrooms
and that's kind of what our school was.
I really didn't want to go.
Like to me, it just wasn't fun to me.
I wanted to be a professional
football player, which was my first goal,
but my parents and my music teachers
felt that this was where I should go.
So, I had to figure out something
to occupy my time
because they had no sports teams.
Me and a friend of mine, Marc Nelson,
decided to recruit some people
and just sing in the hallways.
[harmonizing]
[Nathan] 'Cause in school, we sang a lot
of classical, jazz, Baroque, all that.
You know, every kid off the street
wants to sing Michael Jackson,
but choir teachers
don't let you do all that.
The group that you know now
is the group that we assembled in 1988.
I felt like I was in the X-Men,
like the Xavier School of the Gifted,
you know what I mean?
We would get so tight sometimes
that the harmonies
wouldn't even sound like harmonies,
it would sound like [imitates static]
We knew that
when we get that sound, it's perfect.
That's how it came to be, man.
It was very, very organic.
It wasn't something
that was strategically planned.
Over time,
it was just something that we loved to do.
- [director] Apparently, there was a show
- The Magic Show.
- [director chuckling] You know which one?
- Valentine's Day.
I think it was 1989.
We had prepared for this talent show.
It was the typical assembly
that the school normally had.
We practiced, and we rehearsed,
and we had dance steps.
Showtime.
[Stockman] We bought these cheap suits
from this place called Twofers.
Where you get two for one.
We were you know, we were swagged out,
you know what I'm saying? And, um
We'd been going to this school all year.
Girls and people there saw us
just like they saw everybody else.
I was the geek, the nerd.
I read comic books
and I played Dungeons & Dragons
with my other nerdy geek friends.
That was me.
For some reason,
when the curtain opened up
[indistinct commotion]
it's almost like those kids
saw our future.
The girls were screaming
and falling out of their chairs.
You would have sworn
that New Edition was there.
[upbeat '90's pop music playing]
[King] Boyz II Men would not have existed
without Michael Bivins.
He was a member of New Edition,
[Carter] New Edition is the group
that Boyz II Men was modeled after.
Anything that New Edition
was into at that time,
everyone was going to sign up for.
It would have been almost impossible
to move forward the way that they moved,
without getting that initial
New Edition co-sign
because that was the sound that was
defining urban radio back then.
I didn't really discover them.
I mean, there's their story
and there's other stories.
[Wanya] Nate had a friend
who actually was security for Will Smith,
Charlie Mack, first out the limo.
He said, "Look, we're going to be
at the Powerhouse on blah-blah date,"
and he said,
"Y'all should come and meet Will."
Well, I heard they had one pass
and kept passing it
to the other and they snuck in
and I thought that was, like, you know,
from where we're from, the streets,
that's just what you do.
I think that's all a part
of the desire and the will
to be seen and to be heard.
We didn't have tickets,
so they put us back
to the side of the stage
and we're watching Paula Abdul come in,
Keith Sweat, Cherrelle.
[Bivins] And I come around the corner
and they go,
"Yo, Biv, yo, Biv, you got to listen."
Before I could say anything,
they just started singing.
["Motownphilly" by Boyz II Men playing]
By the time we finished,
everybody had surrounded us.
All the people, all the artists
that had come into the side entrance.
I just thought they sounded good
and I wasn't going to tell them
they sounded better than us.
I think I was just being nice
and gave them the number
to the only number I knew by heart.
We were always big New Edition fans,
you know what I'm saying.
In high school we listened to 'em.
I mean, they were like
the modern day Temptations to us,
so those are the ones
that we looked up to.
[Bivins] Nate did call, and he called
every night for, like, two or three weeks
and he said,
"Man, I think you could manage us."
And I said, "What?"
Hey! Hey! Hey!
[clapping]
This is the gentleman, that, uh
This is the gentleman
who is responsible for
- It's VH1.
- VHS?
VHS. That's funny.
He saw something in me
I didn't even see in myself.
If it wasn't for Nate Morris,
I would have never been a music executive.
Mike, say something.
- This is Mr. Michael Bivins.
- How y'all doing over there?
- [Nathan] The Superman himself.
- Yeah.
They're pushing it now.
I just know that they're with me.
I'm in BBD, I'm hot
and I'm doing this shit
and somebody will give me what I need.
I was the most disrespectful,
respectful young man you ever met.
["Motownphilly" continues]
Boyz II Men ♪
Boyz II Men ♪
Motownphilly's back again ♪
[Bivins] I was trying to bring
the sound of Motown, the sound of Philly,
bringing two powerhouses' names together
to represent how I wanted them
to be identified.
Not too soft ♪
It's long overdue but now
Philly is slammin' ♪
[Molanphy] They're telling you
their own story in the lyrics of the song.
The East Coast family ♪
It's the most meta possible debut
you could have.
You're commenting on your own breakthrough
in your debut single.
Back in school we used to
Dream about this every day ♪
Could it really happen? ♪
Or do dreams just fade away? ♪
Then we started singing and
They said it sounded smooth ♪
Then we started a group
And here we are ♪
Kickin' it just for you ♪
[Carter] I think before we even
heard the first note from Boyz II Men,
they let us know
how they wanted to be defined.
Their aesthetic was different
from what we were seeing some of
the other men in R&B do at that time.
[upbeat R&B music playing]
[Carter] I would be embarrassed
when my dad would get in my car
and would hear my Jodeci music in there.
Some of it was a little raunchier.
[fans screaming]
A lot raunchier.
Boyz II Men was like the music
that your grandmother
also liked to listen to.
They literally were
just good boys next door.
[soft R&B music playing]
[Carter] It was just so smartly marketed.
[Wanya] We looked like Life Savers.
- We were walking down the street
- [Nathan] It was ridiculous.
People were beeping their horns
and pointing at us.
- [chuckles] People were pointing at us.
- Pointing.
But Biv didn't give up.
He was very resilient,
and he had a vision.
- Most of the time the vision worked.
- It was right.
And it was right in this case.
I see you. You're down there.
You're fixing them all up.
You're into this
management thing now, huh?
Yeah, these are like
They're like my little brothers.
[Bivins] When I put the bowtie on them,
I just wanted them to be respectful
and I knew it would give them
some type of crossover appeal.
When we classify groups as R&B and pop
I think what generally
differentiates the two,
is usually the race of the artist
that's making them
or the audience that they're serving.
And radio back then, of course,
was very much segregated.
[rhythmic music playing]
[Carter] So, Boyz II Men
was able to go and do interviews
on the R&B and hip-hop stations.
Would all y'all yell hi
to my daughter, Dawn, real quick?
[Carter] They were able
to go to the classic soul stations
and then pop music stations.
Boyz II Men, everybody!
[Carter] So, they were really able
to move freely in different spaces
that not a lot of artists were able
to move into.
I'll hang out later
That image kind of allowed us
to ride back and forth
where Black people still respected us
for what we were doing and how we looked,
and white people were able to embrace it
because we didn't look offensive.
It's just really that simple.
[Bivins] They projected the look
better than they realized.
And guess what it did?
It totally separated them from anything
moving in the music business.
The album is number one on the R&B charts,
according to Billboard,
at number five on the pop charts.
Everyone seems to love them,
I'm sure you do.
- [crowd cheering]
- Ladies and gentlemen, Boyz II Men!
["Motownphilly" playing]
[King] I think the popularity
of Boyz II Men in the 1990s
took a lot of people by surprise.
You know, you had a Black boy band
who was continuously
crossing over into the pop charts.
[song continues]
[Molanphy] Normally,
what will happen with an R&B group
is they will break first
with a Black audience or Black radio
and then cross pop.
Boyz II Men were
big at pop radio from the jump.
[Bivins] I don't consider them pop or R&B.
I just consider them fucking singers
'cause that's what they are.
[Nathan] All we really wanted to do
was sing with each other
and be the best singers there was
and sound better than anybody else.
And as success is climbing,
we're in the hotel room,
we're in the car, in a bathroom
We're figuring out
how we can arrange this song.
[harmonizing]
They'd always be like,
"Yo, yo, this is your note."
This is your note
You sing this note right here ♪
[start singing, stop]
- Nah, nah, let's do the right key.
- Which one?
[Stockman] We're very meticulous.
Because we don't wanna sound wack.
Hey, guys, could you do the intro
of "Motownphilly"?
The "Dun-dun-dah-dah" part? I can't sing.
[Nathan] We'd get taken advantage of.
Like, "Can you sing us a jingle?
Hey, sing my mom's name."
We've just gotta, uh [mumbles]
just figure it out.
- Watch watch us Countdown ♪
- I'm trying to get the other one.
[overlapping dialogue]
[Stockman] The thing you're asking for
We could come up with it,
but we wanted to get it right.
One more time. Just give me a little, uh
[director] I'll scratch the question
where I ask you to demonstrate.
See? See? See?
Yep, that's the problem.
Everybody thinks, "Wow, you guys
can just sing anything. Do it now."
It's not that easy.
- [all] Hi! We're Boyz II Men.
- And
Watch us on Countdown
Watch us on Countdown ♪
Ah, ah, ah, ah ♪
[Molanphy] Prior to Boyz II Men,
for your athletic prowess in singing,
you went to a Whitney or a Mariah.
[crowd cheers]
They put that really Olympic-level singing
in the context of a vocal group.
Um, something that I don't think
anybody had really seen before.
[cheering]
I can remember once I asked
Milli Vanilli to do it, they couldn't.
[Bivins] Milli Vanilli had just did
the thing at the award show,
so the whole lip-syncing thing
was a big thing.
They put lip-syncing under their boots.
And if we get to see tomorrow ♪
[all harmonizing a cappella]
I hope it's worth all the pain ♪
It's hard to say goodbye ♪
To yesterday ♪
[cheering and applause]
[Bivins] It just wasn't their voices,
it really was the commitment.
And I think if anybody's
willing to dig that deep,
then success is around the corner.
[men harmonizing]
[harmonizing fades]
Boyz II Men had "Motownphilly"
and so they had kind of already
opened up a door
where people were looking at them like,
"Oh. That's interesting. They're cool."
And they were just the group
that made sense
to do this record "End of the Road"
'cause I kind of wrote it
in a whole Philly kind of way,
you know, a Philly kind of song.
It seemed like they
they sung "Motownphilly," so why not?
We didn't know at that moment there
that we were kind of making history,
that's what's happening.
This is the truth of "End of the Road,"
you're getting the exclusive.
So, one day, L.A.'s assistant
calls me in the office
and says, "L.A. wants to talk to you."
He's like, "Yo, Biv, I'm doing the movie,
I'm doing the soundtrack,
and I gotta do this record
with the boys, man."
I'm like, "Who?" He's like, "Boyz II Men."
I said, "Get the fuck out of here."
He said, "Yeah, man."
I said, "Cool, I'm gonna
play it for the boys."
I invited them over the next day
to the crib. In my living room,
I had a projector, I had a sound system
with big-ass speakers.
I was amped and I'm smiling and shit,
I'm very Hollywood and animated.
I'm like,
"Yes, they're gonna love this shit."
So we cocks it in.
[echoing] Boom.
We belong together ♪
It's Babyface and I'm like,
"Fuck, another ballad,"
but I don't give a shit,
it's L.A. and Babyface.
And then when it's over,
I'm like, "So, what do you think?"
And then they go, "It's all right."
I go, "Huh?"
Wan and I liked it, Nate, not so much.
He thought it was just okay. And
- I think that was "I'll Make Love to You."
- No. It wasn't.
- It was "End of the Road." Yes, it was.
- Was it?
- You were like, "Hey"
- No, no, you're right.
Like, "It's all right."
I was done. "Okay, Babyface's singing it,
so we can sing it."
I thought it was all right.
So, we have some words.
And I go, "Listen,
we're doing this motherfucking song."
You still with me?
And so, I had to go the next day
to go see Jheryl.
My mentor, my everything,
the boss of all bosses, Jheryl Busby.
I'm like, "Yo, I got this record,
L.A. and Babyface,
and we need to do it, Jheryl."
He was like,
"Can't you see I'm on the phone?"
Jheryl was real ruthless sometimes.
I just kind of started backpedaling slow
and I called Sharliss
and I said, "Put L.A. on."
She said, "Hold on." I said, "L.A.,
Jheryl loves the fucking record, man."
"He thinks it's the best shit
we could have ever done in our life."
I believe we were on tour with Hammer.
On tour with Hammer,
flew into Philly for a day,
went in, recorded it,
turned around and got back out.
I don't know what the fuck happened,
but my phone rang at six in the morning.
Jheryl says, "Michael eff-ing Bivins!"
And I'm sitting up, I'm scared.
He said, "There's a fucking record
on the radio I know nothing about."
"Excuse me, Jheryl,
but remember I told you
about the record I never played for you?"
He said,
"The fucking record's taking off."
I said, "Oh."
And then he goes,
"Bivins!" "Yes?"
"This is the greatest shit
you've ever done!"
But it worked out for all of us.
["End of the Road" by Boyz II Men playing]
We belong together ♪
And you know that I'm right ♪
[Bivins]And I don't give a shit who
was rocking before that record came on,
the mood of the room
switched from that first note.
When I can't sleep at night
Without holding you tight ♪
It's very calm and just sneaks up on you.
They don't start at 11.
They start at a four and they let it build
until you get to the chorus.
Spinning around and around ♪
- Although we've come ♪
- [singing along]
- Boom!
- To the end ♪
[Bivins]You're looking at your lady,
she's looking at you.
[Carter] It's probably one of the most
beautifully recorded songs of all time.
They allow their voices
to just hang in the air
and just truly stab you a little bit.
Boyz II Men and myself, we sing sad songs.
It's love songs, but also sad.
Maybe I'll forgive you ♪
[chuckles] Sad song singing people.
There's something beautiful
about the pain sometimes.
I don't believe
that we really started learning
how to be true recording artists
until that session.
Yeah.
He helped us understand that
there's more to music than just singing.
This time instead
Just come to my bed ♪
[Stockman]Wanya was just singing,
"Baby, just don't let me down"
If people clue in, like he cracked.
[Wanya] Yeah.
Wanya actually cracked.
Like, that's a crack.
His voice cracked.
End of the road ♪
[Wanya] My voice was changing
and I couldn't sing soft,
and I cracked a lot.
I cracked a lot, and I always wanted to
go back and, "Do it one more time."
And Babyface was like,
"No, we're keeping that."
[Wanya] And it worked,
the emotion was felt.
I'm here for you ♪
[Babyface] At that point,
all four of them were there.
Michael, he had the bass voice,
so we could really
go with the old school R&B.
[deeply] "Baby, I really miss you."
That was like, let's have fun with it.
You just don't understand
How much I love you, do you? ♪
I'm here for you ♪
And then you had Wanya,
he would go completely crazy,
and you couldn't quite sing along with it,
but you tried to.
Although we've come ♪
[Babyface] Each one of them
could make lyrics come alive
and make emotion come alive.
It became "End of the Road"
because they sung it.
I can't let go ♪
If someone thinks that
they can really sing,
they attempt to sing "End of the Road."
I belong to you ♪
Come to the end of the road ♪
Still I can't let go ♪
It's so natural ♪
You belong to me ♪
I belong to you ♪
Although we've come ♪
To the end of the ♪
[laughing]
Don't try and sing that song
if you're playing,
don't do that,
'cause you'll get embarrassed.
Singers sing that song.
Still I can't let go ♪
It's unnatural ♪
You belong to me ♪
I belong to you ♪
I wish I could say we, uh, knew
we was gonna be big like this, you know?
So, we just went in and did the record
and told them,
"This is a hit, watch this."
I wish I could say that,
but that's not what it was.
You feel like something feels good,
but you still don't know
what the rest of the world's gonna,
how they'll react.
You just cross your fingers
and hope that you got something.
[rhythmic music playing]
[Bivins] The pop radio loved them so much.
They ate the record up.
And that's how we got to 13 weeks.
And we beat
Elvis Presley's record from 1958.
It beat a roughly
36-year-old record by Elvis Presley,
a record so old it actually
technically pre-dated the Hot 100.
Yes.
Then that's when it
starts to get your mind turning,
like, "Okay, guys, what else can we do?"
Baby, tonight is your night ♪
And I will do you right ♪
[Molanphy] They put out
another Babyface ballad.
It explodes out of the gate.
"I'll Make Love to You"
was number one for 14 weeks.
It actually beats the record
Boyz II Men set with "End of the Road."
They do it again
in late '95 and early '96.
"One Sweet Day" was number one
for 16 weeks.
Basically, Boyz II Men were kind of
blockading the charts at this time.
I mean,
you can say it's red and it'll be blue
and everybody will say it's red
'cause that's how hot you are.
[upbeat R&B music playing]
Everything that, you know, we touched
at a certain point in time turned to gold.
[Bivins] When Bill Clinton got in office,
he called us.
To be from the hood of Philly,
to walk with the Secret Service
on the lawn of The White House
is serious business.
[clamoring]
[Babyface] To watch them perform
and to see the reaction to it,
all ages, and not just that,
but an audience that was probably
85-90% white.
That was very unique in 1995, for sure.
They were still that boy band
that was unique boy band
because no one was there doing that yet.
That was until the other guys came.
[pop music playing]
[Babyface] Here comes Backstreet Boys
and NSYNC and 98 Degrees.
I think that's what changed the game
for Boyz II Men, actually.
[Lachey] Part of being
in a boy band in those days,
was all the teen mags,
so Super Teen
and Tiger Beat and Teen Beat,
and a lot of bad hairstyles,
as you can see from this picture.
This was called the "Yellow Thorn."
I mean, there's really nothing you can say
about any of this, honestly,
other than I have deep regret.
If you ask any of the groups
that we're talking about,
whether it's Backstreet Boys or NSYNC,
or obviously, 98 Degrees, um,
I think that every single one would say
Boyz II Men was a huge influence on them.
It's If you were in a guy vocal group,
they were the benchmark.
So, I think we all were influenced
in different ways and
um, maybe us more so than the others
because we were on Motown
in a very similar vein.
Four part versus five part,
and there were a lot of similarities
that weren't necessarily unintentional.
Boyz II Men inspired a lot of..
almost every group
that's happened after them.
They couldn't quite sing like them,
but they were certainly
going down that road.
[Backstreet Boys singing]
I'll never break your heart ♪
I'll never make you cry ♪
[Carter] They looked like
the white version of Boyz II Men.
They looked
almost exactly like those guys.
And they sounded like them too.
They knew how to harmonize and layer,
much in the same ways
that Boyz II Men did.
[Babyface] You know, they had flavor,
where they didn't have flavor before.
I'd rather diet
Than live without you ♪
[Lachey] We had moved from LA to New York
'cause our label wanted us
to get a little urban edge to us
and we were, our whole mentality
was not fluff, it was not pop,
we wanted to be an R&B harmony group,
that's what we wanted to do.
And we did.
[girls screaming]
So, you guys are signed to Motown Records.
That's right.
We're very proud to be on the label
that so many artists that have inspired us
such as Marvin Gaye, Stevie Wonder,
The Temptations, Boyz II Men
Right.
These boys want to be Black,
uh, but they are not,
but they are presenting
as having the swagger of hip hop.
But, of course, these boy bands
sold even bigger numbers
than any of the R&B vocal groups
of the first half of the '90s.
[soft pop music playing]
So it was kind of
a happy accident, really,
that we became a boy band, I guess.
Boyz II Men is dominating the pop charts
and then, all of a sudden,
these white acts come along
who were basically racial mirrors
of what Boyz II Men is doing, but white,
and their success is not seen
as being part
or related to what Boyz II Men did before.
And that's been around since Elvis
and fucking Chuck Berry and them.
[soft pop music continues]
[Babyface]
When you want to get the cool new stuff,
you go check out
what the young Black kids are doing.
People will be watching from the pop side,
like, "Hmm, what can I use?"
"What can I grab?
What's going to make me cooler?"
[Nathan] Other groups came in
and took the moniker or whatever.
It's not easy to deal
Remember, we started very young,
so we were in our early to mid-20s
when all these groups start trying to
So-called skyrocketing past us.
There wasn't anything at that time
that was as big as us.
We rode the middle.
We appealed to Black fans,
Black girls, let me be specific,
and white girls. Okay?
So, in comes some white boys
that sound similar
and we all know the pop charts
are a lot larger than the urban charts,
from the audience to the budgets
to the whole nine yards
Not to mention,
they don't have to cross over,
they're instantly placed in that genre
We had to work twice as hard
to get to what their birthright was.
[soft pop music playing]
I used to think that we were special
But then you go and do that on me ♪
[Bivins] It went from the four Black kids
on the bedroom wall
to the five white kids
on the bedroom wall.
What looked more appropriate?
[King] I think Boyz II Men in the 1990s
had to negotiate this very fine line,
given the history of the ways
that a Black man could have been arrested
for just looking at a white woman
in America only 40, 50 years before.
[Babyface] Boyz II Men were huge.
And their audience
was a majority white crowd.
I don't know that in their homes
that you had posters of Boyz II Men
on the wall.
How could you fight a poster on a wall?
Because that's what it was
That's what it came down to, to me.
They had about five amazing years
and then it tailed off rather quickly
by the late '90s,
despite coming off of
what was a diamond-selling album.
[upbeat piano music playing]
The boy bands are now the leading edge
of mainstream pop.
[hip-hop playing]
[Molanphy]
Simultaneously, on the R&B side,
R&B has fused
even more tightly with hip hop.
[Carter] You know, the R&B music
was R&B music inflected with hip hop.
Boyz II Men wasn't
making that kind of music.
They tried it with the first album,
but what gave them better success
were the big stadium ballads.
That's where they went.
[King] Increasingly,
it became a problem for Boyz II Men,
especially with the rise
of Southern hip-hop in the late 1990s
who had a lot more kind of flavor
and juice in their music,
but also represented
a certain kind of Blackness
that they couldn't really represent
because they were
representing something anachronistic,
that was a throwback to another era.
[rhythmic humming]
They were always represented
as these kind of old souls
in these young bodies.
Boyz II Men were really capturing
a kind of style in Black culture,
um, that harkened all the way back
to the 1940s and 1950s,
in which if you were making popular music,
you put on a suit.
You did it in an aspirational way
that was connected to the desire
for Black achievement
and Black empowerment.
[rhythmic humming continues]
[King] They didn't represent
the present or the future anymore.
They represented only the past.
We had just finished selling out
Madison Square Garden.
I'm talking about at least
in the six digits per night.
You know what I'm saying?
We were just killing it.
And, uh, we took a break.
We went on the road and we ended up
at this place called Pufferbellies.
[slow tempo music playing]
[Wanya] It was a 500-capacity club,
a mechanical bull
was in the middle of the floor,
and it was 50 people there.
We actually looked
at each other and was like,
"Should we even still be doing this?"
Michael didn't really want to be a singer,
he wanted to be an accountant.
And when Boyz II Men took off,
I mean, the alternative was success,
you know what I mean?
And so, he felt the success with us
for a great amount of time.
It wasn't until the chips were down,
the decline, to a certain extent,
that we decided
to mutually part ways. [chuckles]
I don't know if anyone else
has told you anything else,
but I'm going to cut it right there.
We can love each other
with all our heart, minds and bodies,
but like in any relationship,
you can love someone to death,
but when you don't respect them anymore,
- that's when things fall apart.
- Relationship's over.
[Wanya]
We're a four-part harmony singing group
and we had to actually become a tripod.
We had to try to figure it out and we did.
[Nathan] The respect that we have
for music and for each other
allowed us to sustain all the bad times
when people tried to pull one.
"You could be a solo artist."
Or "You could do this."
We had the respect for each other
that, "I'm not doing that to my guys,"
knowing that when things were bad
that we had each other's back
because we love each other.
[upbeat funky music playing]
[Wanya] The option for Vegas
came on the table and I opposed it,
totally opposed it
because I was just like,
"You know, people go to Vegas to die."
Over time, as we started
to build our audience
and Wan was able to see the vision
that we were setting up
for the second phase of our career.
[upbeat funky music playing]
[Nathan] We're still keeping the name
of the group alive in the world.
[dolphin chirps]
[Stockman] Like Sampson, I need my coif.
[stylist chuckles]
And, of course, as you get older,
you get the
- That wisdom.
- You get that white.
- I don't know if it's wisdom or stress.
- Right, it's stress.
[laughing]
[Wanya] Once we got here,
it was a slow roll,
and we were told that it
was going to be a slow roll,
that we would have to eat this humble pie
and start all over.
And that's what we did.
[indistinct chatter]
[Wanya clears throat]
- Friends. Friends. Family.
- What up, mama?
- What up, Jazzy?
- [Jazzy] Hey, baby.
- [slow tempo R&B playing]
- [indistinct chatter]
- [Wanya] Hi, girls. Hi.
- Hi. Fantastic!
- How are you?
- Good. How are you?
- Great show.
- Thank you.
Wonderful show.
- Come on in.
- I will.
[indistinct chatter]
[Stockman] Thank you. Thank you.
- [camera clicks]
- Thank you.
- Thanks, guys. Appreciate it.
- Thank you. Thank you.
[Babyface] You go through a period
where it seemed uncool
because music had changed,
but that was a short time period.
Now it's the kind of old school music
that you love to hear.
[inaudible]
[Molanphy] People treat them
as something of a guilty pleasure,
but given the piece of the pop timeline
that they kind of own,
I think their legacy
is a little underrated.
[chuckling]
- How are you doing? I'm good.
- I'm good. How are you?
Oh, my goodness.
[Wanya chuckling]
[Lachey] They were
a big part of people's lives.
I mean, there's a real joy in going back
and reliving that feeling.
- I love you.
- [Wanya] Thank you. I love you too.
[Babyface] You can try to switch gears,
but they kind of are what they are.
And, uh, so,
you kind of just have to ride the storm.
We're singers,
and we do it with our heart,
our soul and 100% passion.
Like us or not, you can't deny that.
If you're a good performer,
you'll be able to go out and perform
and be able to feel that love
every time you hit that stage.
[man] They're coming now.
Showtime.
[man] Here he comes.
[Wanya] My grandmother
would come to the talent shows
and she'd be like, "Did you feel that?"
And I'd be like, "Yeah, I felt it."
She said, "It didn't look like it."
I'm like, "What are you talking about?"
She said, "Look, you go on stage
and you sing, you give it all you got."
"You give everything."
"If you're singing a song
that's that's about tears, cry."
[rhythmic music playing]
If it's 5,000 people,
you sing like it's 50,000.
Tell him let's do it on time.
[Wanya] If it's 50,000,
you sing like it is five million.
You know what I'm saying?
Ten, nine, eight, seven ♪
Six, five, four, three, two, one ♪
[crowd cheers and applauds]
["I'll Make Love To You" playing]
Close your eyes, make a wish ♪
And blow out the candlelight ♪
[Carter] Every Boyz II Men song takes you
back to a special place in your life.
Whenever I hear Boyz II Men,
I immediately feel like
I'm 14 years old again,
and I'm still waiting for the guy
I had a crush on to notice me.
Your wish is my command ♪
I submit to your demands ♪
[Carter]
When music is really good, it sticks.
I'll make love to you
Like you want me to ♪
[Stockman] You can hear
the same song 30,000 times
and people still get something out of it.
It just creates an energy
that is unmatched.
That is something that a chart
could never measure.
And I will do you right ♪
Just make a wish ♪
Music has always had the power
to take you to a time and a place.
Music is that powerful,
and because of that,
Boyz II Men are that powerful.
Once it touches you that way
then that's kind of a forever thing.
I'll make love to you
Like you want me to ♪
And I'll hold you tight
Baby, all through the night ♪
I'll make love to you
When you want me to ♪
And I will not let go
Till you tell me to ♪
[man talking indistinctly]
I ain't gonna get you.
Like a railroad track.
How was last night?
- Ah! [chuckles] You did, you did.
- [laughs]
Yeah, yeah.
Two down, one more to go.
You know what I mean?
Ooh, Lord.
What's going on, bro?
[man] It's all good, bro.
- Let's get it. Let's get it.
- Let's get it.
Yeah, right there.
Tired, tired, tired.
But, you know, sometimes
you gotta give it all, you know?
Because at the end of the day,
if you don't give it all,
somebody else is gonna give more.
You know?
Oh, Lord.
I ain't got nothing else to give, Lord!
[upbeat R&B music playing]
- ["Uhh Ahh" by Boyz II Men playing]
- Ten, nine, eight, seven ♪
Six, five, four, three, two, one ♪
Injection, fellas ♪
Uhh, ahh, uhh, ahh ♪
- Don't worry 'bout a thing baby ♪
- Uhh ♪
[Nick Lachey] Boyz II Men,
when they hit, it was something new
and it was something different.
[Jason King] When you would hear
Boyz II Men on the radio,
you knew exactly who it was.
[Chris Molanphy]
It is about feeling your feelings.
It's about being unbound.
[Kelley Carter]
And the kids loved it almost immediately.
[reporter] In Melbourne, Australia
this week, dozens of injuries
as fans were caught in the frenzy
to see the American group Boyz II Men.
Twenty thousand teenagers appeared
hoping to get a glimpse of the band.
[crowd screaming]
They broke the code of Hot 100 charts
and no one talks about it.
[upbeat music playing]
[Bivins] We murdered
that shit in the '90s.
That was until the other guys came.
As soon as Boyz II Men hit, we started
emulating everything they did.
[Babyface] That's what
changed the game for Boyz II Men.
[Nathan Morris] Everything hasn't
been rosy for the group.
We always get the question:
"Where'd you guys go?"
- Are we ready, guys? Let's do it.
- [director] Ready.
["I Love Music" by The O'Jays playing]
We would take
that 23 trolley from Germantown
all the way down
to North Philadelphia, the projects,
and we would sing any song
that we could possibly think of.
My mom actually taught me harmony.
People would be looking like,
"What's going on?"
"This little boy and this little lady
is, like, just singing."
The sound of Philadelphia
was resonating through the streets.
I love music
Just as long as it's grooving ♪
[Shawn Stockman] My mother,
when she was cleaning the house,
she'd have the windows open,
and she played LTD
and Harold Melvin the Blue Notes.
While driving in the car,
I got the likes of The Carpenters
and Alan Parsons Project.
[laughs]
[Nathan] We had the best of both worlds
because we lived in Philly,
so we got all the Philly sound
and then we also got
the popular sound of the world,
which at that time was Motown.
[upbeat Motown music playing]
[Wanya] There was always
a bunch of Gamble and Huff songs
and Teddy Pendergrass and Patti Labelle.
That type of music was molding us
for the type of musicians
and the type of music
we would create years later.
[Stockman] I would watch Michael Jackson
and Prince and I would daydream
Like, "Wow,
how would it be to be on stage,
singing in front of a bunch of people,
with my hands stretched out?"
[fans screaming]
I would walk down the street
and I would see a place
and I would want to be there
because I saw something artistic going on.
Hence going to the High School
For the Creative and Performing Arts.
[school bell ringing]
[easy-listening 70s music laying]
[Nathan] Years ago,
they used to have this TV show called Fame
where people used to dance in the hallways
and sing in the lunchrooms
and that's kind of what our school was.
I really didn't want to go.
Like to me, it just wasn't fun to me.
I wanted to be a professional
football player, which was my first goal,
but my parents and my music teachers
felt that this was where I should go.
So, I had to figure out something
to occupy my time
because they had no sports teams.
Me and a friend of mine, Marc Nelson,
decided to recruit some people
and just sing in the hallways.
[harmonizing]
[Nathan] 'Cause in school, we sang a lot
of classical, jazz, Baroque, all that.
You know, every kid off the street
wants to sing Michael Jackson,
but choir teachers
don't let you do all that.
The group that you know now
is the group that we assembled in 1988.
I felt like I was in the X-Men,
like the Xavier School of the Gifted,
you know what I mean?
We would get so tight sometimes
that the harmonies
wouldn't even sound like harmonies,
it would sound like [imitates static]
We knew that
when we get that sound, it's perfect.
That's how it came to be, man.
It was very, very organic.
It wasn't something
that was strategically planned.
Over time,
it was just something that we loved to do.
- [director] Apparently, there was a show
- The Magic Show.
- [director chuckling] You know which one?
- Valentine's Day.
I think it was 1989.
We had prepared for this talent show.
It was the typical assembly
that the school normally had.
We practiced, and we rehearsed,
and we had dance steps.
Showtime.
[Stockman] We bought these cheap suits
from this place called Twofers.
Where you get two for one.
We were you know, we were swagged out,
you know what I'm saying? And, um
We'd been going to this school all year.
Girls and people there saw us
just like they saw everybody else.
I was the geek, the nerd.
I read comic books
and I played Dungeons & Dragons
with my other nerdy geek friends.
That was me.
For some reason,
when the curtain opened up
[indistinct commotion]
it's almost like those kids
saw our future.
The girls were screaming
and falling out of their chairs.
You would have sworn
that New Edition was there.
[upbeat '90's pop music playing]
[King] Boyz II Men would not have existed
without Michael Bivins.
He was a member of New Edition,
[Carter] New Edition is the group
that Boyz II Men was modeled after.
Anything that New Edition
was into at that time,
everyone was going to sign up for.
It would have been almost impossible
to move forward the way that they moved,
without getting that initial
New Edition co-sign
because that was the sound that was
defining urban radio back then.
I didn't really discover them.
I mean, there's their story
and there's other stories.
[Wanya] Nate had a friend
who actually was security for Will Smith,
Charlie Mack, first out the limo.
He said, "Look, we're going to be
at the Powerhouse on blah-blah date,"
and he said,
"Y'all should come and meet Will."
Well, I heard they had one pass
and kept passing it
to the other and they snuck in
and I thought that was, like, you know,
from where we're from, the streets,
that's just what you do.
I think that's all a part
of the desire and the will
to be seen and to be heard.
We didn't have tickets,
so they put us back
to the side of the stage
and we're watching Paula Abdul come in,
Keith Sweat, Cherrelle.
[Bivins] And I come around the corner
and they go,
"Yo, Biv, yo, Biv, you got to listen."
Before I could say anything,
they just started singing.
["Motownphilly" by Boyz II Men playing]
By the time we finished,
everybody had surrounded us.
All the people, all the artists
that had come into the side entrance.
I just thought they sounded good
and I wasn't going to tell them
they sounded better than us.
I think I was just being nice
and gave them the number
to the only number I knew by heart.
We were always big New Edition fans,
you know what I'm saying.
In high school we listened to 'em.
I mean, they were like
the modern day Temptations to us,
so those are the ones
that we looked up to.
[Bivins] Nate did call, and he called
every night for, like, two or three weeks
and he said,
"Man, I think you could manage us."
And I said, "What?"
Hey! Hey! Hey!
[clapping]
This is the gentleman, that, uh
This is the gentleman
who is responsible for
- It's VH1.
- VHS?
VHS. That's funny.
He saw something in me
I didn't even see in myself.
If it wasn't for Nate Morris,
I would have never been a music executive.
Mike, say something.
- This is Mr. Michael Bivins.
- How y'all doing over there?
- [Nathan] The Superman himself.
- Yeah.
They're pushing it now.
I just know that they're with me.
I'm in BBD, I'm hot
and I'm doing this shit
and somebody will give me what I need.
I was the most disrespectful,
respectful young man you ever met.
["Motownphilly" continues]
Boyz II Men ♪
Boyz II Men ♪
Motownphilly's back again ♪
[Bivins] I was trying to bring
the sound of Motown, the sound of Philly,
bringing two powerhouses' names together
to represent how I wanted them
to be identified.
Not too soft ♪
It's long overdue but now
Philly is slammin' ♪
[Molanphy] They're telling you
their own story in the lyrics of the song.
The East Coast family ♪
It's the most meta possible debut
you could have.
You're commenting on your own breakthrough
in your debut single.
Back in school we used to
Dream about this every day ♪
Could it really happen? ♪
Or do dreams just fade away? ♪
Then we started singing and
They said it sounded smooth ♪
Then we started a group
And here we are ♪
Kickin' it just for you ♪
[Carter] I think before we even
heard the first note from Boyz II Men,
they let us know
how they wanted to be defined.
Their aesthetic was different
from what we were seeing some of
the other men in R&B do at that time.
[upbeat R&B music playing]
[Carter] I would be embarrassed
when my dad would get in my car
and would hear my Jodeci music in there.
Some of it was a little raunchier.
[fans screaming]
A lot raunchier.
Boyz II Men was like the music
that your grandmother
also liked to listen to.
They literally were
just good boys next door.
[soft R&B music playing]
[Carter] It was just so smartly marketed.
[Wanya] We looked like Life Savers.
- We were walking down the street
- [Nathan] It was ridiculous.
People were beeping their horns
and pointing at us.
- [chuckles] People were pointing at us.
- Pointing.
But Biv didn't give up.
He was very resilient,
and he had a vision.
- Most of the time the vision worked.
- It was right.
And it was right in this case.
I see you. You're down there.
You're fixing them all up.
You're into this
management thing now, huh?
Yeah, these are like
They're like my little brothers.
[Bivins] When I put the bowtie on them,
I just wanted them to be respectful
and I knew it would give them
some type of crossover appeal.
When we classify groups as R&B and pop
I think what generally
differentiates the two,
is usually the race of the artist
that's making them
or the audience that they're serving.
And radio back then, of course,
was very much segregated.
[rhythmic music playing]
[Carter] So, Boyz II Men
was able to go and do interviews
on the R&B and hip-hop stations.
Would all y'all yell hi
to my daughter, Dawn, real quick?
[Carter] They were able
to go to the classic soul stations
and then pop music stations.
Boyz II Men, everybody!
[Carter] So, they were really able
to move freely in different spaces
that not a lot of artists were able
to move into.
I'll hang out later
That image kind of allowed us
to ride back and forth
where Black people still respected us
for what we were doing and how we looked,
and white people were able to embrace it
because we didn't look offensive.
It's just really that simple.
[Bivins] They projected the look
better than they realized.
And guess what it did?
It totally separated them from anything
moving in the music business.
The album is number one on the R&B charts,
according to Billboard,
at number five on the pop charts.
Everyone seems to love them,
I'm sure you do.
- [crowd cheering]
- Ladies and gentlemen, Boyz II Men!
["Motownphilly" playing]
[King] I think the popularity
of Boyz II Men in the 1990s
took a lot of people by surprise.
You know, you had a Black boy band
who was continuously
crossing over into the pop charts.
[song continues]
[Molanphy] Normally,
what will happen with an R&B group
is they will break first
with a Black audience or Black radio
and then cross pop.
Boyz II Men were
big at pop radio from the jump.
[Bivins] I don't consider them pop or R&B.
I just consider them fucking singers
'cause that's what they are.
[Nathan] All we really wanted to do
was sing with each other
and be the best singers there was
and sound better than anybody else.
And as success is climbing,
we're in the hotel room,
we're in the car, in a bathroom
We're figuring out
how we can arrange this song.
[harmonizing]
They'd always be like,
"Yo, yo, this is your note."
This is your note
You sing this note right here ♪
[start singing, stop]
- Nah, nah, let's do the right key.
- Which one?
[Stockman] We're very meticulous.
Because we don't wanna sound wack.
Hey, guys, could you do the intro
of "Motownphilly"?
The "Dun-dun-dah-dah" part? I can't sing.
[Nathan] We'd get taken advantage of.
Like, "Can you sing us a jingle?
Hey, sing my mom's name."
We've just gotta, uh [mumbles]
just figure it out.
- Watch watch us Countdown ♪
- I'm trying to get the other one.
[overlapping dialogue]
[Stockman] The thing you're asking for
We could come up with it,
but we wanted to get it right.
One more time. Just give me a little, uh
[director] I'll scratch the question
where I ask you to demonstrate.
See? See? See?
Yep, that's the problem.
Everybody thinks, "Wow, you guys
can just sing anything. Do it now."
It's not that easy.
- [all] Hi! We're Boyz II Men.
- And
Watch us on Countdown
Watch us on Countdown ♪
Ah, ah, ah, ah ♪
[Molanphy] Prior to Boyz II Men,
for your athletic prowess in singing,
you went to a Whitney or a Mariah.
[crowd cheers]
They put that really Olympic-level singing
in the context of a vocal group.
Um, something that I don't think
anybody had really seen before.
[cheering]
I can remember once I asked
Milli Vanilli to do it, they couldn't.
[Bivins] Milli Vanilli had just did
the thing at the award show,
so the whole lip-syncing thing
was a big thing.
They put lip-syncing under their boots.
And if we get to see tomorrow ♪
[all harmonizing a cappella]
I hope it's worth all the pain ♪
It's hard to say goodbye ♪
To yesterday ♪
[cheering and applause]
[Bivins] It just wasn't their voices,
it really was the commitment.
And I think if anybody's
willing to dig that deep,
then success is around the corner.
[men harmonizing]
[harmonizing fades]
Boyz II Men had "Motownphilly"
and so they had kind of already
opened up a door
where people were looking at them like,
"Oh. That's interesting. They're cool."
And they were just the group
that made sense
to do this record "End of the Road"
'cause I kind of wrote it
in a whole Philly kind of way,
you know, a Philly kind of song.
It seemed like they
they sung "Motownphilly," so why not?
We didn't know at that moment there
that we were kind of making history,
that's what's happening.
This is the truth of "End of the Road,"
you're getting the exclusive.
So, one day, L.A.'s assistant
calls me in the office
and says, "L.A. wants to talk to you."
He's like, "Yo, Biv, I'm doing the movie,
I'm doing the soundtrack,
and I gotta do this record
with the boys, man."
I'm like, "Who?" He's like, "Boyz II Men."
I said, "Get the fuck out of here."
He said, "Yeah, man."
I said, "Cool, I'm gonna
play it for the boys."
I invited them over the next day
to the crib. In my living room,
I had a projector, I had a sound system
with big-ass speakers.
I was amped and I'm smiling and shit,
I'm very Hollywood and animated.
I'm like,
"Yes, they're gonna love this shit."
So we cocks it in.
[echoing] Boom.
We belong together ♪
It's Babyface and I'm like,
"Fuck, another ballad,"
but I don't give a shit,
it's L.A. and Babyface.
And then when it's over,
I'm like, "So, what do you think?"
And then they go, "It's all right."
I go, "Huh?"
Wan and I liked it, Nate, not so much.
He thought it was just okay. And
- I think that was "I'll Make Love to You."
- No. It wasn't.
- It was "End of the Road." Yes, it was.
- Was it?
- You were like, "Hey"
- No, no, you're right.
Like, "It's all right."
I was done. "Okay, Babyface's singing it,
so we can sing it."
I thought it was all right.
So, we have some words.
And I go, "Listen,
we're doing this motherfucking song."
You still with me?
And so, I had to go the next day
to go see Jheryl.
My mentor, my everything,
the boss of all bosses, Jheryl Busby.
I'm like, "Yo, I got this record,
L.A. and Babyface,
and we need to do it, Jheryl."
He was like,
"Can't you see I'm on the phone?"
Jheryl was real ruthless sometimes.
I just kind of started backpedaling slow
and I called Sharliss
and I said, "Put L.A. on."
She said, "Hold on." I said, "L.A.,
Jheryl loves the fucking record, man."
"He thinks it's the best shit
we could have ever done in our life."
I believe we were on tour with Hammer.
On tour with Hammer,
flew into Philly for a day,
went in, recorded it,
turned around and got back out.
I don't know what the fuck happened,
but my phone rang at six in the morning.
Jheryl says, "Michael eff-ing Bivins!"
And I'm sitting up, I'm scared.
He said, "There's a fucking record
on the radio I know nothing about."
"Excuse me, Jheryl,
but remember I told you
about the record I never played for you?"
He said,
"The fucking record's taking off."
I said, "Oh."
And then he goes,
"Bivins!" "Yes?"
"This is the greatest shit
you've ever done!"
But it worked out for all of us.
["End of the Road" by Boyz II Men playing]
We belong together ♪
And you know that I'm right ♪
[Bivins]And I don't give a shit who
was rocking before that record came on,
the mood of the room
switched from that first note.
When I can't sleep at night
Without holding you tight ♪
It's very calm and just sneaks up on you.
They don't start at 11.
They start at a four and they let it build
until you get to the chorus.
Spinning around and around ♪
- Although we've come ♪
- [singing along]
- Boom!
- To the end ♪
[Bivins]You're looking at your lady,
she's looking at you.
[Carter] It's probably one of the most
beautifully recorded songs of all time.
They allow their voices
to just hang in the air
and just truly stab you a little bit.
Boyz II Men and myself, we sing sad songs.
It's love songs, but also sad.
Maybe I'll forgive you ♪
[chuckles] Sad song singing people.
There's something beautiful
about the pain sometimes.
I don't believe
that we really started learning
how to be true recording artists
until that session.
Yeah.
He helped us understand that
there's more to music than just singing.
This time instead
Just come to my bed ♪
[Stockman]Wanya was just singing,
"Baby, just don't let me down"
If people clue in, like he cracked.
[Wanya] Yeah.
Wanya actually cracked.
Like, that's a crack.
His voice cracked.
End of the road ♪
[Wanya] My voice was changing
and I couldn't sing soft,
and I cracked a lot.
I cracked a lot, and I always wanted to
go back and, "Do it one more time."
And Babyface was like,
"No, we're keeping that."
[Wanya] And it worked,
the emotion was felt.
I'm here for you ♪
[Babyface] At that point,
all four of them were there.
Michael, he had the bass voice,
so we could really
go with the old school R&B.
[deeply] "Baby, I really miss you."
That was like, let's have fun with it.
You just don't understand
How much I love you, do you? ♪
I'm here for you ♪
And then you had Wanya,
he would go completely crazy,
and you couldn't quite sing along with it,
but you tried to.
Although we've come ♪
[Babyface] Each one of them
could make lyrics come alive
and make emotion come alive.
It became "End of the Road"
because they sung it.
I can't let go ♪
If someone thinks that
they can really sing,
they attempt to sing "End of the Road."
I belong to you ♪
Come to the end of the road ♪
Still I can't let go ♪
It's so natural ♪
You belong to me ♪
I belong to you ♪
Although we've come ♪
To the end of the ♪
[laughing]
Don't try and sing that song
if you're playing,
don't do that,
'cause you'll get embarrassed.
Singers sing that song.
Still I can't let go ♪
It's unnatural ♪
You belong to me ♪
I belong to you ♪
I wish I could say we, uh, knew
we was gonna be big like this, you know?
So, we just went in and did the record
and told them,
"This is a hit, watch this."
I wish I could say that,
but that's not what it was.
You feel like something feels good,
but you still don't know
what the rest of the world's gonna,
how they'll react.
You just cross your fingers
and hope that you got something.
[rhythmic music playing]
[Bivins] The pop radio loved them so much.
They ate the record up.
And that's how we got to 13 weeks.
And we beat
Elvis Presley's record from 1958.
It beat a roughly
36-year-old record by Elvis Presley,
a record so old it actually
technically pre-dated the Hot 100.
Yes.
Then that's when it
starts to get your mind turning,
like, "Okay, guys, what else can we do?"
Baby, tonight is your night ♪
And I will do you right ♪
[Molanphy] They put out
another Babyface ballad.
It explodes out of the gate.
"I'll Make Love to You"
was number one for 14 weeks.
It actually beats the record
Boyz II Men set with "End of the Road."
They do it again
in late '95 and early '96.
"One Sweet Day" was number one
for 16 weeks.
Basically, Boyz II Men were kind of
blockading the charts at this time.
I mean,
you can say it's red and it'll be blue
and everybody will say it's red
'cause that's how hot you are.
[upbeat R&B music playing]
Everything that, you know, we touched
at a certain point in time turned to gold.
[Bivins] When Bill Clinton got in office,
he called us.
To be from the hood of Philly,
to walk with the Secret Service
on the lawn of The White House
is serious business.
[clamoring]
[Babyface] To watch them perform
and to see the reaction to it,
all ages, and not just that,
but an audience that was probably
85-90% white.
That was very unique in 1995, for sure.
They were still that boy band
that was unique boy band
because no one was there doing that yet.
That was until the other guys came.
[pop music playing]
[Babyface] Here comes Backstreet Boys
and NSYNC and 98 Degrees.
I think that's what changed the game
for Boyz II Men, actually.
[Lachey] Part of being
in a boy band in those days,
was all the teen mags,
so Super Teen
and Tiger Beat and Teen Beat,
and a lot of bad hairstyles,
as you can see from this picture.
This was called the "Yellow Thorn."
I mean, there's really nothing you can say
about any of this, honestly,
other than I have deep regret.
If you ask any of the groups
that we're talking about,
whether it's Backstreet Boys or NSYNC,
or obviously, 98 Degrees, um,
I think that every single one would say
Boyz II Men was a huge influence on them.
It's If you were in a guy vocal group,
they were the benchmark.
So, I think we all were influenced
in different ways and
um, maybe us more so than the others
because we were on Motown
in a very similar vein.
Four part versus five part,
and there were a lot of similarities
that weren't necessarily unintentional.
Boyz II Men inspired a lot of..
almost every group
that's happened after them.
They couldn't quite sing like them,
but they were certainly
going down that road.
[Backstreet Boys singing]
I'll never break your heart ♪
I'll never make you cry ♪
[Carter] They looked like
the white version of Boyz II Men.
They looked
almost exactly like those guys.
And they sounded like them too.
They knew how to harmonize and layer,
much in the same ways
that Boyz II Men did.
[Babyface] You know, they had flavor,
where they didn't have flavor before.
I'd rather diet
Than live without you ♪
[Lachey] We had moved from LA to New York
'cause our label wanted us
to get a little urban edge to us
and we were, our whole mentality
was not fluff, it was not pop,
we wanted to be an R&B harmony group,
that's what we wanted to do.
And we did.
[girls screaming]
So, you guys are signed to Motown Records.
That's right.
We're very proud to be on the label
that so many artists that have inspired us
such as Marvin Gaye, Stevie Wonder,
The Temptations, Boyz II Men
Right.
These boys want to be Black,
uh, but they are not,
but they are presenting
as having the swagger of hip hop.
But, of course, these boy bands
sold even bigger numbers
than any of the R&B vocal groups
of the first half of the '90s.
[soft pop music playing]
So it was kind of
a happy accident, really,
that we became a boy band, I guess.
Boyz II Men is dominating the pop charts
and then, all of a sudden,
these white acts come along
who were basically racial mirrors
of what Boyz II Men is doing, but white,
and their success is not seen
as being part
or related to what Boyz II Men did before.
And that's been around since Elvis
and fucking Chuck Berry and them.
[soft pop music continues]
[Babyface]
When you want to get the cool new stuff,
you go check out
what the young Black kids are doing.
People will be watching from the pop side,
like, "Hmm, what can I use?"
"What can I grab?
What's going to make me cooler?"
[Nathan] Other groups came in
and took the moniker or whatever.
It's not easy to deal
Remember, we started very young,
so we were in our early to mid-20s
when all these groups start trying to
So-called skyrocketing past us.
There wasn't anything at that time
that was as big as us.
We rode the middle.
We appealed to Black fans,
Black girls, let me be specific,
and white girls. Okay?
So, in comes some white boys
that sound similar
and we all know the pop charts
are a lot larger than the urban charts,
from the audience to the budgets
to the whole nine yards
Not to mention,
they don't have to cross over,
they're instantly placed in that genre
We had to work twice as hard
to get to what their birthright was.
[soft pop music playing]
I used to think that we were special
But then you go and do that on me ♪
[Bivins] It went from the four Black kids
on the bedroom wall
to the five white kids
on the bedroom wall.
What looked more appropriate?
[King] I think Boyz II Men in the 1990s
had to negotiate this very fine line,
given the history of the ways
that a Black man could have been arrested
for just looking at a white woman
in America only 40, 50 years before.
[Babyface] Boyz II Men were huge.
And their audience
was a majority white crowd.
I don't know that in their homes
that you had posters of Boyz II Men
on the wall.
How could you fight a poster on a wall?
Because that's what it was
That's what it came down to, to me.
They had about five amazing years
and then it tailed off rather quickly
by the late '90s,
despite coming off of
what was a diamond-selling album.
[upbeat piano music playing]
The boy bands are now the leading edge
of mainstream pop.
[hip-hop playing]
[Molanphy]
Simultaneously, on the R&B side,
R&B has fused
even more tightly with hip hop.
[Carter] You know, the R&B music
was R&B music inflected with hip hop.
Boyz II Men wasn't
making that kind of music.
They tried it with the first album,
but what gave them better success
were the big stadium ballads.
That's where they went.
[King] Increasingly,
it became a problem for Boyz II Men,
especially with the rise
of Southern hip-hop in the late 1990s
who had a lot more kind of flavor
and juice in their music,
but also represented
a certain kind of Blackness
that they couldn't really represent
because they were
representing something anachronistic,
that was a throwback to another era.
[rhythmic humming]
They were always represented
as these kind of old souls
in these young bodies.
Boyz II Men were really capturing
a kind of style in Black culture,
um, that harkened all the way back
to the 1940s and 1950s,
in which if you were making popular music,
you put on a suit.
You did it in an aspirational way
that was connected to the desire
for Black achievement
and Black empowerment.
[rhythmic humming continues]
[King] They didn't represent
the present or the future anymore.
They represented only the past.
We had just finished selling out
Madison Square Garden.
I'm talking about at least
in the six digits per night.
You know what I'm saying?
We were just killing it.
And, uh, we took a break.
We went on the road and we ended up
at this place called Pufferbellies.
[slow tempo music playing]
[Wanya] It was a 500-capacity club,
a mechanical bull
was in the middle of the floor,
and it was 50 people there.
We actually looked
at each other and was like,
"Should we even still be doing this?"
Michael didn't really want to be a singer,
he wanted to be an accountant.
And when Boyz II Men took off,
I mean, the alternative was success,
you know what I mean?
And so, he felt the success with us
for a great amount of time.
It wasn't until the chips were down,
the decline, to a certain extent,
that we decided
to mutually part ways. [chuckles]
I don't know if anyone else
has told you anything else,
but I'm going to cut it right there.
We can love each other
with all our heart, minds and bodies,
but like in any relationship,
you can love someone to death,
but when you don't respect them anymore,
- that's when things fall apart.
- Relationship's over.
[Wanya]
We're a four-part harmony singing group
and we had to actually become a tripod.
We had to try to figure it out and we did.
[Nathan] The respect that we have
for music and for each other
allowed us to sustain all the bad times
when people tried to pull one.
"You could be a solo artist."
Or "You could do this."
We had the respect for each other
that, "I'm not doing that to my guys,"
knowing that when things were bad
that we had each other's back
because we love each other.
[upbeat funky music playing]
[Wanya] The option for Vegas
came on the table and I opposed it,
totally opposed it
because I was just like,
"You know, people go to Vegas to die."
Over time, as we started
to build our audience
and Wan was able to see the vision
that we were setting up
for the second phase of our career.
[upbeat funky music playing]
[Nathan] We're still keeping the name
of the group alive in the world.
[dolphin chirps]
[Stockman] Like Sampson, I need my coif.
[stylist chuckles]
And, of course, as you get older,
you get the
- That wisdom.
- You get that white.
- I don't know if it's wisdom or stress.
- Right, it's stress.
[laughing]
[Wanya] Once we got here,
it was a slow roll,
and we were told that it
was going to be a slow roll,
that we would have to eat this humble pie
and start all over.
And that's what we did.
[indistinct chatter]
[Wanya clears throat]
- Friends. Friends. Family.
- What up, mama?
- What up, Jazzy?
- [Jazzy] Hey, baby.
- [slow tempo R&B playing]
- [indistinct chatter]
- [Wanya] Hi, girls. Hi.
- Hi. Fantastic!
- How are you?
- Good. How are you?
- Great show.
- Thank you.
Wonderful show.
- Come on in.
- I will.
[indistinct chatter]
[Stockman] Thank you. Thank you.
- [camera clicks]
- Thank you.
- Thanks, guys. Appreciate it.
- Thank you. Thank you.
[Babyface] You go through a period
where it seemed uncool
because music had changed,
but that was a short time period.
Now it's the kind of old school music
that you love to hear.
[inaudible]
[Molanphy] People treat them
as something of a guilty pleasure,
but given the piece of the pop timeline
that they kind of own,
I think their legacy
is a little underrated.
[chuckling]
- How are you doing? I'm good.
- I'm good. How are you?
Oh, my goodness.
[Wanya chuckling]
[Lachey] They were
a big part of people's lives.
I mean, there's a real joy in going back
and reliving that feeling.
- I love you.
- [Wanya] Thank you. I love you too.
[Babyface] You can try to switch gears,
but they kind of are what they are.
And, uh, so,
you kind of just have to ride the storm.
We're singers,
and we do it with our heart,
our soul and 100% passion.
Like us or not, you can't deny that.
If you're a good performer,
you'll be able to go out and perform
and be able to feel that love
every time you hit that stage.
[man] They're coming now.
Showtime.
[man] Here he comes.
[Wanya] My grandmother
would come to the talent shows
and she'd be like, "Did you feel that?"
And I'd be like, "Yeah, I felt it."
She said, "It didn't look like it."
I'm like, "What are you talking about?"
She said, "Look, you go on stage
and you sing, you give it all you got."
"You give everything."
"If you're singing a song
that's that's about tears, cry."
[rhythmic music playing]
If it's 5,000 people,
you sing like it's 50,000.
Tell him let's do it on time.
[Wanya] If it's 50,000,
you sing like it is five million.
You know what I'm saying?
Ten, nine, eight, seven ♪
Six, five, four, three, two, one ♪
[crowd cheers and applauds]
["I'll Make Love To You" playing]
Close your eyes, make a wish ♪
And blow out the candlelight ♪
[Carter] Every Boyz II Men song takes you
back to a special place in your life.
Whenever I hear Boyz II Men,
I immediately feel like
I'm 14 years old again,
and I'm still waiting for the guy
I had a crush on to notice me.
Your wish is my command ♪
I submit to your demands ♪
[Carter]
When music is really good, it sticks.
I'll make love to you
Like you want me to ♪
[Stockman] You can hear
the same song 30,000 times
and people still get something out of it.
It just creates an energy
that is unmatched.
That is something that a chart
could never measure.
And I will do you right ♪
Just make a wish ♪
Music has always had the power
to take you to a time and a place.
Music is that powerful,
and because of that,
Boyz II Men are that powerful.
Once it touches you that way
then that's kind of a forever thing.
I'll make love to you
Like you want me to ♪
And I'll hold you tight
Baby, all through the night ♪
I'll make love to you
When you want me to ♪
And I will not let go
Till you tell me to ♪
[man talking indistinctly]
I ain't gonna get you.
Like a railroad track.
How was last night?
- Ah! [chuckles] You did, you did.
- [laughs]
Yeah, yeah.
Two down, one more to go.
You know what I mean?
Ooh, Lord.
What's going on, bro?
[man] It's all good, bro.
- Let's get it. Let's get it.
- Let's get it.
Yeah, right there.
Tired, tired, tired.
But, you know, sometimes
you gotta give it all, you know?
Because at the end of the day,
if you don't give it all,
somebody else is gonna give more.
You know?
Oh, Lord.
I ain't got nothing else to give, Lord!
[upbeat R&B music playing]