Killer Sally (2022) s01e02 Episode Script

1
So, would you consider
yourself a violent person?
It's been instilled in me
that I'm the violent one,
and the world isn't violent.
But in my eyes, when I'm getting attacked
it's my right to defend myself.
I have a right to defend myself.
Shake that body for
People don't you know ♪
Don't you know it's about time ♪
Can't you hear the jam is pumpin' ♪
While you taste the piece of mine? ♪
Happy New Year, everybody!
This is New Year's Eve, 1995!
Ray and I had been married
about eight years.
I was hoping that things would get better,
but they didn't get better.
Every time he's doing a show,
he's doing more steroids and that
that's the timing
when the beatings got worse.
And then this woman that I knew of
that I competed against,
she got strangled by her boyfriend.
And that turned on the light.
"Oh my God, that could have been me.
Ray's always choking me."
Then I became aware.
"He's gonna kill me."
That That shook me up pretty good.
I made plans to leave.
I was gonna go back east to Pennsylvania.
My mom was selling the house
that I grew up in,
and she made me an offer.
"If you pay $50 a week,
you can move into the house."
Shantina was in sixth grade,
John was in fourth grade.
I was gonna leave
as soon as I had enough money.
My mother, uh, she told us
to be "Prepared to pack all your things,"
because we'd leave immediately,
and we would get in the car
and we would drive to Allentown.
We were so close to escaping.
But I didn't make it
because the incident happened.
It's 1995, Valentine's Day.
I woke up ready to do my thing.
- Tina!
- Can you see Shantina?
Be with my kids,
be the best mom I could be.
Be the best wife I could be.
Like I had done every other day
before that.
Pretty warm, huh? Pretty warm, huh?
We were just having a fun day.
That day,
actually, I do remember.
We had like a clubhouse
in the back of the apartment,
and I was back there.
I had stolen the the grate
off of our, um, grill.
And I'd made a fire
and I put chicken on the thing.
And my mom caught me. "Why are you
trying to burn the whole apartment up?"
And I was like, "Oh my God."
And so I remember her just
saying, "Go outside and play."
- Leave the door open.
- So we ran.
Later, we came home. My dad wasn't home.
And my mom was just trying
to get a hold of my dad.
And it was Valentine's Day.
So, where was he?
I remember going to sleep,
and my mother was alone
on the couch by herself.
It's getting late.
Yeah, it is Valentine's Day, so I figure,
well, we could celebrate a little bit.
You know, just have a nice time.
And I thought, well,
maybe Ray went to McCabe's,
which was a bar.
I was gonna walk down to the neighbor's
and ask if she could
watch the kids while I went.
So he comes home,
and I'm putting my makeup on.
He says, "You going somewhere?"
And I said, "Yeah, I was gonna go
to McCabe's to see if I could find you."
And, um that's when the argument ens
you know, happened.
I remember my mom
was just like, "Where were you?"
Asking questions.
He's like
three days out from a show.
He's loaded to the gills with steroids,
five different steroids.
I turned it off!
No, you didn't. Why don't you
film your face in this light then?
The vibe was just
It was an unnatural feeling in that house.
They just looked at me,
so I went in my room.
And then the next thing,
I heard my mom choking.
First, he hit me.
'Cause I told him, I said,
"Well, you look like shit."
"You're not gonna place at all."
"You're not striated
in the contest."
So then he hit me.
And then he started choking me.
I got scared, and I thought,
"He's gonna kill me,
and I'm not gonna make it
through this night."
My mom was, like, gasping for air.
And I still, like I
You never forget that sound.
I scrambled away.
I ran to the bedroom
and retrieved the weapon.
I grabbed two, um
two rounds,
and, um, walked out to the living room,
and loaded the weapon
as I was walking out to the living room.
I didn't know what
he was capable of doing.
He had five different steroids in him.
He was superhuman.
He was super strong and he was super fast
in a small apartment.
So I tell him to get out,
and he says, "No," so I shot him.
I heard this loud sound,
and I thought my dad had threw my mom
up against the china cabinet.
Shantina came running out
with a baseball bat,
'cause she thought Ray
had finally killed me.
I saw
I guess that was my the second time
my mom shot my father.
Um
When I
So, um
When I walked into it,
my mother was standing next to me
holding the shotgun.
And my dad was falling to the ground.
Um, I tried to help him.
I woke up to the screaming of my sister.
That's what woke me up.
I kind of stayed in the room,
because I could see
Ray laying on the floor.
There was blood. It was everywhere.
And it smelled like
It smelled like copper. Like pennies.
He's on the ground,
so I go out and I grab the blanket,
and I came in and brought it
and covered him, to prevent shock.
And then I walk out
as one neighbor's walking by,
and I handed him the weapon,
and then I went back in the house.
And the reason I handed him the weapon
was so that they know
I'm not gonna shoot anybody.
I'm done.
I'm not a threat to anybody.
911.
I just shot my husband
because he just beat me up.
- You shot your husband?
- Yes.
I'm at 1802 South Tremont Street.
- Who's crying?
- My daughter.
Okay, is he dead?
- He's shot.
- Okay. What's your name?
My name is Sally McNeil.
- Don't touch the door, Shantina!
- How old is he?
- He might beat me up!
- Ma'am!
- I just got beat up.
- How old is your husband?
My husband is 20
Thirty years old.
Dad! No, Dad!
Oh my God, he's shot!
- Is he breathing?
- Yes.
- He is breathing?
- Yes.
Is he conscious?
- Yes. Just Just hold on!
- I ain't feeling so good
- Where's the gun at?
- Hold on, please.
My dad was laying on the floor,
screaming and crying.
And, uh
Saying, "Why?" That's all I know.
34, we're gonna need paramedics.
34, they're en route.
Okay, we have a facial gunshot.
I had to walk over his body
as he was bleeding.
And, to tell you the truth,
it was a relief.
Even if he lived, he would never be able
to beat me, my mother, or my sister again.
I knew that it was over.
The ambulance came.
They took Ray to the hospital.
They took my sister and I,
and they put us in a separate police car.
And we cried out and yelled for our mother
as hard as a human can cry.
I said, "No, you're not taking me
away from my mom."
And then I tried to kick out the door
and kick out the window, and
I know that police officer was crying
when he took us and we all left.
We all went to the police station.
And just were waiting for a long time.
I remember just crying and saying,
"What happened?"
"Why didn't Why did all this happen?"
I was just gonna just run out there
and say, "Please don't argue anymore."
- Mm-hmm.
- I'm getting tired of it.
I don't like it when they argue like that.
- My dad's too big to hit my mom.
- Mm-hmm.
The police asked the children questions,
and they answered what they knew.
- Need a little coffee?
- No.
I was there pretty much
throughout the night.
I I couldn't sleep.
I can't eat. Didn't have an appetite.
I felt awful.
I felt guilty.
And I think because I felt guilty
and awful, it just
it just made a difference
when I was, uh,
getting interviewed by the police.
I should have just said,
"I want a I want a lawyer."
But instead, I was, you know,
just explaining what happened.
Telling them what happened.
I wanted to get out of the house,
and he wouldn't let me out of the house.
So then I ran back into the bedroom
and I got my shotgun, and I came out.
And I wanted to threaten him with it.
And then he was standing at the stove,
cooking his chicken,
and I aimed it at him, and, um,
I don't I think he came after me and
You know, I wanted to threaten him,
just scare him,
and then when he was gonna come after me,
I got scared and I shot him.
And he came after me again,
and I shot him.
I was scared that he was gonna hurt
And I was actually afraid
just to even point the weapon at him,
because he would probably
choke me to death.
So then I shot him again
when he came after me,
and then I, you know, realized
that I had really done bad damage to him,
and I called the police.
Okay.
I think they asked me for, you know,
what had happened
like in three different ways,
and I think it was like
three to six hours.
You know,
all this time we've been talking,
you haven't asked us at all
about how Ray is doing.
I just sort of sense that maybe you
That you know that you
really, really seriously injured him.
You know that, right?
Looking at all the blood and everything.
I asked at the other police station.
They wouldn't tell me.
I'm gonna tell you now, all right?
It's very bad news,
and he just didn't make it.
Oh God.
Okay, so you understand
the position that puts you in?
- I murdered him.
- Mm-hmm.
I didn't want it to be that way.
- I just wanted him to stop hitting me.
- Mm-hmm.
Oh God.
I wish I would have done it a better way.
There's always what they call
Monday morning quarterbacking.
You just can't
Some actions you just can't take back,
and this is one of them.
Oh.
What am I gonna do?
Well, the first thing
that's gonna happen is
We've got a routine thing
that we have to go through.
Right.
You're being placed under arrest
for the murder.
I'm gonna fill out some more paperwork.
And you'll end up having
to go through the court process.
Okay?
How long did they try?
To revive him? I'm not certain.
All I know is that they they spent
some time down at the hospital.
It wasn't like he died in the ambulance.
I just don't know how long after that.
I was in shock.
I killed the man
that I loved the most in the world.
- Are my kids still here? Can I
- We'll work something out.
And then
Um, I mean,
I have different blips in my mind
about what happened.
I think within a couple of hours,
my mother talked to us.
Hey, why don't you guys
sit and visit for a little while.
I was still wearing my pajamas.
I think my brother
was wearing his pajamas as well.
Like, I didn't think
any of that stuff was real.
I really thought
I was just dreaming the whole thing.
- How are you?
- I'm okay.
You guys will be going to Pennsylvania
a little sooner than I had planned.
- Okay?
- Okay.
And, um, first of all, you're just
gonna pick up more toys, huh?
You're gonna be going to a shelter
until one of my sisters or my mom
comes out and gets you.
Someone else's house?
Yes. Well, no, not somebody else's house.
It's like, it's gonna be
A whole bunch
of kids are going to be there.
Because of what I did to Daddy.
It's
He's in heaven now.
I'm sorry, Shantina.
It's okay.
- Are you okay?
- No.
- What's wrong?
- Because of what I did.
Why you gotta go?
They're gonna put me
I have to go through court.
I have to be on trial.
They're gonna try me for murder.
- I'm on trial too.
- No, you didn't do anything.
- Mom, Mom, Mom.
- What?
Remember, that police officer said
If you thought that he was gonna kill you,
that was self-defense,
because of the marks on you.
I know. But they have to go through
a court system and you have to
Just tell them that.
I will. I mean, that's what happened.
I told them everything that happened.
You'll be okay.
You'll be where you're loved.
Does Grammy know?
I don't know. I guess when
I don't wanna tell her.
I'm They're gonna let me call her.
I love you, guys. Honey, give me a hug.
- I'm sorry if I disappointed you, John.
- You didn't.
- You're such a good little boy.
- I don't want to leave, Mommy.
- I know, but you have to.
- No.
Just think of it this way.
I'll be back, okay?
When?
When everything's over.
- Are you in trouble?
- Yes, I am.
For the longest time, I blamed myself.
A lot, a lot.
I would blame myself for, um,
just
I felt like it was my fault, because, uh,
multiple times that night, I
I tried to stop my parents from arguing.
He was a bad man though.
That'll be so good
if you just go to jail for about a month.
'Cause if
I just hope one of the jurors vote
that you're not guilty and you go free.
Well, we'll see.
I'm sorry
Sorry that I made this trouble
It's okay
Please forgive me.
I do.
Yes.
I love you.
That was
the worst night of my life.
I shattered everybody's life around me.
Why don't you give your mom a big hug
and a kiss and say goodbye.
We're leaving?
Yeah, in a few minutes,
you guys will be leaving.
No, I don't wanna go.
I don't wanna go, Mommy.
Children's Services
took the children to a children's home.
But you still have my love.
Just remember that. I love you.
We had no idea
what was gonna happen.
Maybe you can send me a picture.
And it was And it ended up being
like we were in prison.
From the police station,
they took us to a group home in San Diego.
There were hundreds of kids.
We were all like the unwanted.
That's how it felt.
Yeah.
Ray McNeil
was shot to death Tuesday night
at their Oceanside apartment.
Sally McNeil,
a former Marine and bodybuilder,
took a shotgun
and blasted her husband Ray,
then reloaded
and shot him again in the face.
I think they had, uh, a fight at the time,
a domestic problem.
When I heard about what happened,
I just couldn't hardly believe it.
It was very shocking, and my first thought
was, "Is she okay? Is Sally okay?"
McNeil was
a competitive bodybuilder,
now accused of killing her husband Ray.
And that is our top story.
There's a couple different types
of homicides.
There are "whodunits" and "what is it."
The McNeil case is a "what is it."
There's no question Sally shot Ray McNeil.
There's no question that's a murder.
The question is,
is there a viable defense?
My name is Dan Goldstein,
and I was the prosecutor
in charge of prosecuting Sally McNeil
in the Family Protection Division.
Part of being a prosecutor
is not only
how effective you are in court,
but your reputation.
I think that justice was done.
In the '90s,
I was the top gun in San Diego.
I had prosecuted many
high-profile homicides.
I was aggressive and sometimes feared.
Any time anybody shakes a baby to death,
that's a 25-to-life crime, uh,
there's just no exceptions to it.
I first heard about this case
the day after the homicide.
There was a call
from the Oceanside detectives.
I reviewed the videotapes
of the defendant's interviews,
and I was intrigued by the case.
And it was Valentine's Day again,
and I'm getting beat up again
on Valentine's Day.
Looking at
Sally McNeil's behavior,
to me, I didn't see
a great deal of remorse there,
nor did I see her being the fearful
battered woman she claimed to be.
Oh, okay.
During the middle
of the interview,
when the detectives
stepped out of the room,
she had covered herself with a blanket,
laid on the floor, and took a nap.
I thought,
"Wow, that is something that a person
who is not guilty of murder
would never do."
I don't know.
I just was answering the questions
to the best of my ability, and
I just shot my husband, so I'm in shock.
I don't remember the exact thing
that I said
All through the night
they asked me questions,
and then I think the next day I was like,
"I think I need a lawyer."
And then they got me a lawyer.
All rise, please.
Division Six, no cameras.
The court is now in session.
Uh, Michael L. Burley, judge presiding.
Please be seated and come to order.
Good afternoon.
William Rafael for Mrs. McNeil.
I am Bill Rafael,
and in 1995, I was with
the alternate public defender's office.
I met Sally McNeil
as a result of a a court appointment
to represent her.
Today, the former Marine
and female bodybuilder,
Sally McNeil, pleaded not guilty
to murder charges.
I had about 15 years
of criminal defense experience,
and had had tried a number of homicides.
In Sally, you have a unique woman.
She was not your ordinary
Leave It to Beaver mom
who looked as if she could
be the subject of battery.
I mean, she gave the appearance
of being someone
who could take care
of themselves physically.
But I would have to prove
Sally is a victim of domestic abuse.
Come on, Sally!
Bill Rafael told me not to lift weights,
because he doesn't want me
to be big and muscular.
He goes, we are taking out
the shoulder pads from my clothes.
He goes, "Because that makes you appear
bigger than you are."
"We want them to know
that you're not a big woman."
The fact that she shot
an unarmed man twice,
once at close range
and once from distance,
the People are gonna request
$1 million bail.
When I arraign a murder defendant,
I expect a million dollars bail,
but the defense was able
to persuade the judge,
without hearing any evidence,
that Sally was a battered woman.
Fortunately, the bail was reduced
to $100,000,
and she had this network of supporters.
I go slowly
Kind of a little fan club.
Men who would pay to wrestle and grapple
with women who would throw them around.
And some of her clients
came together for her
and helped put up the bail bond.
And she was released on bail.
The bodybuilding community
turned on me,
but not the wrestling community.
These men that they consider schmoes
stuck by my side.
After the night of the incident,
they had separated me and the children.
I don't wanna go.
I know. It's okay.
We'll be back together
because we love each other so much.
I'm not going.
- I'm sorry.
- I'm not going.
You have to go.
- I don't wanna go.
- It'll be okay.
I thought we were gonna
see each other again.
I thought it was only gonna be temporary.
I thought maybe it would be
the three months that I was in,
or four months, and then I bailed out.
But by that time
they were back east with my parents.
My grandparents
agreed to take us in
so we didn't have to go to a foster home.
I thank God that my grandparents did that,
because we went we went to a good home.
When my grandparents raised
their children, they were alcoholics.
Hey, Shantina
By the time
my sister and I moved in,
they were not alcoholics,
and they were a lot more mature.
For them to step up and take care of us
was a blessing.
So I decided to let them stay back there
in case I get found guilty,
and that way
they won't get disrupted again.
She came to the house
as soon as she posted bail.
As soon as she got out she came.
I talked to her,
and she said
that she had no choice that night.
Said she went to the closet
and got the gun.
He knew that she was going to the closet.
He knew that's where the gun was.
And she said it didn't
slow him down a bit.
And it was either
"Get rid of him,
or me and the kids get hurt."
And she said,
"I chose to get rid of him instead."
Court records show
a history of domestic abuse,
but police say they also found steroids
in the apartment.
These potent and illegal drugs
help build muscle,
but steroids can also cause
violent mood swings.
The steroid use to me
is a a little bit of a red herring.
I investigated that angle.
Ray had, by the way,
five different types of steroids
in his bloodstream
at the time of his death.
Sally had one.
But Sally's defense was never, um,
"I did this because I was on steroids,"
nor was her defense that
"Ray was on steroids,
and that's why he was
so aggressive towards me."
That The The basis of the case,
the touchstone of the case,
was that the relationship was violent.
Sally claims the shooting of her husband
was self-defense,
that he hit her on numerous occasions,
including the night she shot him.
Her attorney says
Sally McNeil was being choked
and was a battered woman.
the shooting
was self-defense.
He was a rather large,
muscular individual,
and, as you can see,
she was shorter than I am
and not as well-built as he, certainly.
I was pretty angry at a lot of
the untrue stuff that was said about Ray.
Uh
They just They tried
to turn him into a villain.
Um, I Personally, I think it's
It was "steroid Black guy,
the big Black guy that attacked his wife."
So she "He deserved what he got."
"Ray McNeil attacked her,"
because that was her story.
That's not the real story.
I'm asking you this, DJ.
Did he ever tell you
of incidents with Sally?
Well, they've had incidents, uh,
where they've, you know
You know, he maybe had to grab her
to calm her down.
She gets physical a lot, so
- Meaning aggressive?
- Yeah.
When you begin
a homicide investigation,
you want to start interviewing witnesses.
And when you do the interviews,
you're not just asking them
about the night of the homicide.
You're asking them
about what they know about the couple.
We were all scared.
And, to a T,
everybody that talked about Sally,
whether they were victims of her violence
or had been witnesses to it,
they all knew that Sally was violent.
I remember one time, uh,
they had had a fight,
Ray was gonna leave her.
She went out on the balcony
and threw dumbbells down on his car.
- Was Ray in the car at the time?
- Yes.
We were able to obtain
Sally's service record handbook
from the Marines.
In that book was her entire career
while she was in the Marines,
and it was all her judicial punishments,
non-judicial punishments,
all the times she got in trouble,
all the police reports over the years.
There were numerous cases
in that service record handbook.
I mean, she was a fighter.
My mother wasn't,
um
wasn't, you know, the perfect housewife.
Yeah, my mother was
aggressive.
Very aggressive.
The one and only victor.
Champion of champions.
I remember my mother used to brag
about her wedding ring
and the rings that she would wear,
and she would tell me,
"You know why I wear these?"
"It's because when I punch someone,
it's gonna leave a dent in their head."
This one time
I got in a fight with this kid,
and I beat him up,
and his father came outside
and slapped me in the face.
And I just remember immediately thinking,
"You are gonna be in so much trouble
when my mother gets home."
"You have no idea
what kind of crazy my mother is."
And
my mother came home.
And my sister
told my mother what happened.
And my mother grabbed me by the arm
and walked me down the street
to the apartment where, uh, the man lived.
And my mother said,
"You two stand right here."
And she walked up to the door.
I remember her banging. Bang, bang, bang.
And I saw the door open,
and she didn't even let him
get a word out.
She just started swinging.
And she was beating the crap out of him.
I know she beat the mailman up.
He said something to her kids, and
And she she protected her kids
like a wild animal.
I guess one of the neighbors
called the police,
and the police showed up.
Have you ever been arrested locally?
Here in Oceanside?
Yeah, I got
The police show up at the door.
Things were complicated at home,
and I was acting out.
You threaten to hit me,
I'm gonna hurt you before you hurt me.
She got in a fight with the two initial
police that showed up.
Three more police showed up.
It took all five of them
to get her out of the house.
They ended up just throwing her
down the concrete stairs.
My mother just got up
in like a wrestling stance,
and she was like,
"Okay, come on. Let's keep going."
My mother was violent with Ray too.
A lot.
Most of the fights were about infidelity.
I would find women's phone numbers,
or find a love letter.
Very intimate letters.
He would admit it, and, um
I would be like, you know,
"Break up with her."
And then he would break up with her.
And then he'd find another person.
Ray Ray got around.
You know, he visited other gyms,
and he went to a lot of competitions.
Uh, he went out of town to shows.
And there was always people
that want to meet him.
And what got to me was that I knew Sally,
and I knew how she could be.
So I was scared for him.
Of course I'm gonna be angry.
Nobody wants their husband
having affairs on them.
No normal person wants their husband
to have an affair on them.
I've seen
Sally act in a violent manner,
where she's lost her temper.
One was at a bodybuilding contest where
she got in a disagreement with a female.
I remember it. We was all at the contest.
Ray wasn't competing.
But we was all there.
Ray, myself and a couple other guys
were standing to the side talking.
All of a sudden
this big commotion.
I was at the Steel Rose competing,
and this girl was all up in his face.
And I'm like,
"Please get away from my husband."
"Fuck you, Sally.
I'll go wherever I want."
I said, "You're not gonna go
around my husband."
And I grabbed her by the hair
and yanked her down to the ground.
She was punching her.
I mean not like a girl,
like a guy, punching her.
And every time she hit this girl,
all she was saying was that
"You
"fucked my husband."
"You fucked my husband."
I mean, louder louder than anything.
And I believe she got suspended
from bodybuilding
as much as a year because of that.
I wanted to break her nose,
like he broke my nose,
and I wanted to make her
I wanted to make it
to where nobody wanted her.
Wanna have one of these pulling contests,
see if I can pull you?
You ready? One, two, three.
Ray
Me, personally, I don't think that he
How should I say this?
I don't think
that he loved her or liked her
the way that she loved him.
- So
- How so?
Well, obviously he was seeing
another another woman.
That was very serious,
because that he saw his future with her.
Okay, starting at the beginning.
I met Ray
about three and a half years ago.
I met him in the gym.
He was getting ready
for for the North America.
That's when he turned pro.
Ray met Marianne at the gym,
and, uh, they
I guess they started going to get lunch
after work, and that kind of stuff,
and then, you know, ended up
into some kind of relationship.
He loved her.
We really, um, had
that kind of true love, you know.
It's the kind of stuff in poetry or that,
you know, they make movies about.
When Marianne's phone number
showed up on my phone bill,
I memorized it and went across the street
and called up at the 7-Eleven.
And I said, "Mary, you no longer
belong to Gold's Gym."
And I told her,
if she shows up at the gym,
I'll kick her ass.
She started physically threatening me.
"I'll kick your ass if you ever show up
around here again." Da, da, da
And I I I have no doubt
that she'd have done it.
Ray wanted to spend Valentine's Day
with Marianne.
Not with Sally,
because bear That was over in his mind.
Um, and that's where he wanted to be.
He would come over sometimes,
I know, to confide in DJ.
And they'd be outside talking for hours.
He wanted out.
He wanted to leave the relationship.
And he goes, "I'm going to tell Sally
that I'm leaving her for Marianne."
I said "Ray," I said, "you guys
have that shotgun at the house."
"Sally has did some crazy stuff."
And I told Ray,
"No, she'll shoot you.
I believe she'll she'll kill you."
He kind of laughed it off. "Yeah"
Valentine's Day hits and, um
Ray wasn't there.
It was
He wasn't there.
I don't know what he was doing.
Okay. Did you think about that?
Did that wander through your mind?
I mean, he's gone,
over two hours late, right?
I think he has a girlfriend.
That's what I think.
Okay.
I'm getting fed up with this.
I'm getting beat
and he's the one fooling around,
and it's not making sense.
It was kind of a a pattern,
um, their fights,
is she would get enraged about something.
And what she'd end up doing
is she'd drag up
all the old stuff between them
and just hurl it at him and just get
just in this frenzied rage, you know.
I was in the bathroom putting on makeup
to go see if he was at McCabe's.
I wasn't stalking him,
I wasn't going there
to get into an argument with him.
I was going to McCabe's
to be with my husband,
who I'm married to.
He's not married to Mary Myers,
he's married to me.
That's my expectation of a marriage.
Spend Valentine's Day with your husband.
Not your whore.
Not your slut.
She knew he was married to me.
When was the last time
that, uh, you saw Ray,
before the day of his death?
Um, the day before, I think.
I believe it was the day before
that I talked to him.
- So
- That That evening on the phone.
- The 14th?
- Yeah.
I talked to him that evening on the phone.
I believe he first went
to the other girl's house that evening.
Um
He called me, says,
"I'm gonna I'm gonna go to my house.
Can you meet me there?"
I went to his house, he wasn't there yet.
I went there and I and I waited for him.
- About what time was that?
- I got there about 9:15.
I knew something wasn't right.
Talking to Sally,
she was acting really funny.
And, uh, I was talking
to my wife on the phone.
I said, "Let me get off the phone.
I'm gonna get something to eat."
Sally, she stands in front of the door.
"You need to stay here."
And I said,
"Sally, why do I have to stay here?"
"I'll be right back."
She obviously knew that Ray
was going to be home any minute.
I believe Sally always
wanted me there sometimes,
because I guess 'cause when I was around,
there was more calm in the house.
I said, "I promise you, Sal,
I'll be back. I'm going."
She says, "You're coming right back?"
And I said, "I'm coming right back."
So, I don't know,
by the time I went and got my food,
there was a helicopter,
there was cops already.
I didn't know what was going on.
So I get out of my car with my food,
and I'm running up,
and I see Sally talking to the cops.
And I see the kids, they look terrified.
But
I don't know.
It was just so unreal.
I kind of blamed myself at first
because I didn't stay.
Maybe nothing would've happened.
I didn't know.
So I was kind of back and forth
blaming myself for it, for not staying.
They let me in the house
to go get things out of there,
and I can see where the material
from his body was
It was all over the ceiling,
all over the floor, all over the walls,
from him, and then I guess he had turned,
and she shot him in the face.
I'm going to be squatting Ray McNeil.
See his muscles? See how big he is?
I think Sally wanted Ray to
be there 100%, as she was for him.
She had an obsession
and didn't want to let it go.
He was breaking up with her,
and he was having
an affair with another woman.
To me, this was a premeditated murder.
When Sally and I discussed
her relationship with Ray,
it was clear that he was
the be-all end-all of her life.
She was absolutely 100% devoted to him.
And that even
if he whacked her around a bit,
she may have deserved it.
And I learned
that that's one of the beliefs
that, uh, battered women
develop over time.
Even if he was hurting you,
you still loved him.
I still loved him.
I wished he wouldn't hurt me.
I wished I could have got him
to love me enough not to hurt me.
I never expected love from anybody.
I had a tough upbringing.
I've always been put in situations
where I've had to defend myself.
I was born in Allentown, Pennsylvania,
in 1960.
My neighborhood was a mixture
of Puerto Rican families,
white families, Black families.
She caught my eye immediately.
She was very different
from all the other girls.
She was fearless
and filled with energy and life.
My name is Debrosha McCants,
and I'm a childhood friend of Sally's.
I was a tomboy,
so I think we had that in common.
The boys used to chase us unmercifully,
and she would protect me.
She'd beat them down with her purse.
And we became best friends.
I had moved
from a different school,
and we were the first Black family
to live in that neighborhood.
The racism was very subtle.
There were a number of girls
in the neighborhood
who didn't play with me
because they were "too busy,"
their mothers would say.
Sally was never like that, though.
I mean, Sally didn't care
what you looked like.
She just wanted to know you
and to have fun.
Sally never spoke about abuse in the home.
Um
She just didn't.
The only thing that she would ever mention
throughout our relationship together
was that her father, Dempsey, uh,
kicked her mother in the stomach
when her mother
was eight months pregnant with Sally.
And, I mean
I just Like, as a kid I mean,
I think she told me that in fourth grade.
Um
And, as a kid, I don't
I don't think I understood, really,
the impact of that,
and the impact of knowing that
when you're eight, nine, ten years old.
My biological father
was Richard Dale Dempsey.
He was an alcoholic,
and he was very, very abusive to my mom.
My mom remarried when I was three.
And then she and my stepdad
had two children together, Judy and Jill.
I don't think
that her stepfather
really wanted the Dempsey children.
She was not a favorite child
in that family.
When my stepsisters were born,
it was made clear that they were his kids,
and we weren't.
They got new clothes,
and I got hand-me-downs.
They got scolded. I got beat.
I remember getting beat
so bad the one time,
my dad beat me with a brush,
he told me to wear a longer dress,
not to let anybody
see the black and blue marks.
I always felt like I needed
to gain their approval somehow.
And that's how I became an athlete,
to get their approval.
After school, I went to practice
until six o'clock at night.
Whenever I was in my season of a sport,
I could go swim or dive or run.
Sally was an excellent athlete,
and she always wanted to be better.
She was always willing to challenge
stereotypical roles
girls are supposed to have.
Because of Title IX,
I was able to show up
at the cross-country practice and ask,
"Can I join the team?"
Title IX states that women have equal
opportunity to compete in sports,
just like the boys do.
She used to train
with the boys,
and you'd see this whole line of guys,
and there was Sally,
like, toward the front.
Let's give her a big hand.
The first year that I ran,
I qualified for the state meet.
I was the only girl
on the cross-country team.
None of the boys qualified
for the state meet.
I was happy to run.
I'd run all over Allentown.
I would ask my dad,
"Can I go to Debbie's house?"
And then when I got to the corner,
I would make a quick right
and run all the way
to my boyfriend Victor's house.
My boyfriend in 9th grade was Black.
I was dating him for about nine months.
My family didn't know about him.
The relationship between Sally and Victor
was a secret.
Um, at some point, her parents found out.
I don't know how.
My mom comes home from work
And And, like,
I think this is why I have issues
with bright lights getting turned on.
The bright light got turned on,
they come stomping up the stairs.
"You're dating a nigger!"
And they spit on me,
called me a nigger-lover.
"You're gonna be grounded
for the whole summer!"
And that's just the way it was.
That's how they were brought up.
They were brought up to be prejudiced.
But the people
I hung out with were Black.
They were working out with me,
or running with me,
or just being my friend.
I think Sally had an enormous amount
of confidence in herself, athletically.
She was good at everything she did,
but she was so gifted as a diver.
I liked diving because springing
on the boards, I felt free.
I could do a full twisting one-and-a-half.
I could do a back one-and-a-half
in the pike position.
When you go underwater,
you can't hear anything,
but, like, when you're coming closer
to the top of the water,
you can hear everybody cheering.
It's exhilarating.
In high school,
Sally was the star.
She had such elegance about her.
She could have gone on
to an Olympic level,
but you had to have money,
and, you know,
we were working-class people.
I mean, we didn't have that.
I graduated from high school.
I went to East Stroudsburg State College.
I wanted to be a gym teacher.
College was going really well.
I had three and a half years
under my belt.
I was a senior.
I had one more semester left.
And I ran out of money.
And I asked my parents
if they could help me pay.
And they said no.
So I had to quit college,
give up my dream.
I can't live at home.
So I had no choice
but to go in the Marine Corps.
This is the beginning ♪
Go!
My brother was a Marine.
My Uncle Ralph was a Marine.
So I was surrounded by Marines.
He said wear my party dress
And now I look like all the rest
And now I look like all the rest
You know, to just up and go
into the Marines takes a lot of guts,
but I think she liked how rigorous it was.
She liked the challenge of it all.
Well, Marines are very macho men.
And here you have this little woman
that doesn't look like much.
Nobody knows that I can do 60 pull-ups.
So I guess I, uh, caused
a few Marines to feel inferior.
- Sound off
- One, two
- Sound off
- Three, four
Bring it on down
I met Tony on June 10th in 1982.
I remember seeing this guy standing there,
and he looked kind of angry.
So I was like
I'm going to flirt with him a little,
make him like me.
The next day Tony calls me,
and we started dating.
I just fell in love with the man.
I was happy when I found out
I was pregnant with Shantina.
And I told Tony, and he was happy,
and he asked me to marry him.
So we got married.
Shantina was this pretty little girl
with this golden blond curly hair.
She inherited my eyes.
Tony didn't think Shantina was his,
I think, until I got pregnant with John
and gave birth to John,
and he looked like her twin.
In the beginning, Tony was good to me.
But then as soon as I got married to him,
things changed.
He became very jealous and abusive.
I had to be on the lookout,
be prepared to get hit
for any little reason.
Looking back, that was normal to me.
I didn't think of it.
I just thought that's how it was.
I thought everybody got beat on.
The neighbors knew,
because they they heard him punching me,
or throwing me down the stairs
or something.
They heard it. They would call the MPs.
And they would come and tell me to leave,
and let him calm down.
So then I start going to counseling,
and then I'm seeing this isn't right.
And then the orders came that I was being
transferred across the country.
And I filed for separation.
I filed for divorce.
I got custody of the kids,
and I'm driving to California,
to Camp Pendleton.
I'm leaving my husband
and I'm leaving that life behind.
The divorce was final
on the 25th of May, 1987,
and I met Ray on the 6th of June.
Flex it. Ooh!
I was a good wife to Ray. I loved him.
Got your pearly whites.
Valentine's Day, that night,
I wasn't the best wife I could be.
I was the worst wife there ever was.
I I
I couldn't take it anymore.
I I didn't want to die.
I have kids, I have children.
If he would have killed me,
he would have killed them.
So, how are you feeling
heading into trial?
I believed in the system,
and I believed
I was going to be given a fair trial.
It became a nightmare.
Subtitle translation by: Nick Lombardi