Stephen Fry: Out There (2013) s01e02 Episode Script
Episode 2
1 'There are people who are so rabidly homophobic, and I just find that fascinating.
' CONTAINS SOME SCENES WHICH SOME VIEWERS MAY FIND UPSETTING It's as if you met someone who was absolutely spent all their life trying to get rid of red telephones.
You'd go, "What? Wh-What" It You know You just would not understand it.
'Why would someone bother to attack a group of people 'who mean and do them no harm? 'This is a series about gay people, 'and the trouble people have accepting them.
' I'm good too.
How do you do? 'Over the last two years, 'when time allowed, I travelled to meet some of the most notorious homophobes on the planet' Senor Deputado.
Stephen Fry.
.
.
'to challenge their prejudice and to find out where their hatred comes from.
' Gay people Most of them are lying about their problems.
You're really not making any sense, Deputy.
You really aren't.
Homosexuality is fantastic.
You should try it.
I will arrest you.
I will arrest you! But when your penis is terrorising someone - My penis isn't! My penis doesn't do that.
'I also had a chance to meet some of the people 'who are victims of this prejudice, 'as well as those fighting against it.
' I never feel to sleep with a woman, say, "Yack.
" I'm born a queen! SHE SPEAKS PORTUGUESE 'Of course, this matters to me because I'm gay.
'But homophobia impacts on all of us.
'It diminishes our humanity, and you can find it all around the world.
' Quite simply, this is about love, commitment and mutual respect.
'It's extraordinary to think that, after 200,000 years on the planet, 'humankind is still struggling with how some of us love.
'Even here in Britain, 'gay love and marriage still give rise to some very heated debate.
'I've already visited parts of Africa 'where the solution put forward about gay people is to kill us.
'And I've been to America, where some think we can be cured.
'In this film, I want to know about the future, 'and what the countries that will be the powerhouses of tomorrow 'have in mind for the next generation of gays.
' I'm heading south to Brazil, a country that in just 25 years has gone from widespread discrimination against gays to full legal equality with its straight citizens.
The city of Sao Paulo hosts the world's biggest Gay Pride parade.
'Four million people, gay and straight, 'joined in celebration of rights that were once unimaginable.
'The future for the next generation of gay Brazilians 'looks dazzlingly bright, 'thanks to the likes of Joao Silverio Trevisan, 'who was amongst the first to stand up and fight.
' Imagine you are 20 years old, and I was to put you in a time machine and take you to this event.
You would not believe it, would you? I could not believe.
I mean, it makes me cry.
When I stood on the float and I saw all the people It makes me cry now.
I cry.
And they were jumping up and down I always cry.
And I see It just makes me so proud and so happy.
So happy.
I'm very happy too.
Yeah.
I'm very, very happy.
It's really beautiful.
I fought all my life for my right of loving, and when I see these, I feel like part of each one.
Yeah.
It's fantastic.
It's truly fantastic.
You're a hero.
You're a real hero, and I admire you so much.
Me too.
Me too, me too.
So much.
If there is anybody on the planet who hates pop music played loudly, people gathered together in damp, unpleasant conditions and being physically tactile, it's me.
I would rather have my liver sucked out through my nose than go to Glastonbury, and an event like this is usually the kind of thing I would most hate.
But it's not just my own gay pride that makes me love this.
There is something quite remarkable, there's an atmosphere I don't think a camera or a microphone can capture it, but I do think that the future lies in people coming together like this, not to protest but to celebrate.
But the Pride parade conceals a darker side to gay life in Brazil.
The sheer speed of progress here has given rise to an anti-gay backlash where a gay person is murdered every 36 hours.
'Before the evening's parties begin, 'I'm dropping in on Brazil's most glamorous drag queen, 'Renata Peron .
.
'who's paid her share of the price of progress.
' One day you were crossing the Praca Republica, and a terrible thing happened.
Can you tell me about that? HE SPEAKS PORTUGUESE Many people would never go out alone again.
They would retire into a small like a snail into a shell.
But you've done the opposite.
You've come out like a butterfly.
This is your answer to the violence and the homophobia that you were the victim of.
Si! Right.
Wow.
Beautiful! HE LAUGHS HE APPLAUDS Oh, thank you! You're too kind.
See, my trouble is, I'm too lazy to be a drag queen, as well as too ugly.
THEY LAUGH STEPHEN CLAPS I've always loved drag queens.
If you like surprising things, to some, it's that those who are the most femme, those who glam themselves up and are more than camp, they're actually feminine in their dress and their attire, um, are probably the most courageous of all the gay community.
Historically, it was the drag queens who fought the police at Stonewall that began, kick-started really, the gay-liberation movement.
It's, um, I suppose, the daily act of walking down the street in drag makes them often be at the very forefront of the strongest and most angry reactions against homophobia.
Stephen? It's bound to happen.
Are you ready? Pronto? OK.
Let's go and do the final bit of zhuzh-ing.
I'm coming, my darling.
Right.
Just do you up? Si, por favor.
STEPHEN LAUGHS RENATA PROTESTS IN PORTUGUESE Oh! Whoo! Oh, my goodness.
Is that for me? Si.
Colado! Thank you.
It goes with my Norwich-stroke-Brazil top.
Oh, my God! You think? RENATA LAUGHS I look like Sideshow Bob from The Simpsons.
Mind your heels.
'After all its triumphs, the fight for gay rights 'has once again stepped into the political arena, 'and this time Brazil's children are at the centre of the debate.
' 'A fierce battle has broken out over a new law 'which proposes to outlaw homophobia 'and to educate teenagers about the damage it causes.
' Your own personal Jesus Someone to hear your prayers 'I've come to Rio to meet Congressman Jair Bolsonaro 'who's determined to block this law, and along with his supporters 'in the religious and conservative right, 'bring an end to the advances of the gay-rights movement.
' Someone to hear your prayers, someone who's there 'This at a time when anti-gay crime is on the rise in the city.
' Reach out and touch faith 'A year ago, 'on the streets of this Rio suburb, 'a 14-year-old boy called Alexandre Ivo was abducted by skinheads 'as he returned home alone from a party.
' Reach out and touch faith 'What followed was a hate crime that shook the entire country, 'and changed his mother's life forever.
' SIRENS WAILING IN DISTANCE Angelica? Stephen.
Prazer.
Prazer.
Prazer.
Hey SHE INHALES You can You can smell him? He's still here? Alexandre was out with gay friends when the gang first spotted him.
Angelica believes they targeted him simply because he looked gay.
And And then, one terrible night almost a year ago, hehe was taken? He was taken away? Oh! Yes.
Oh, so young.
So very young.
HE SIGHS 'The three men accused of murdering Alexandre were never prosecuted.
'Had anti-homophobia laws been in place, 'things may have been different.
' What do you say to people like the politician um, Jair Bolsonaro, you know? He thinks that gay people should shut up and he doesn't believe homophobic crime is a serious matter.
Yes.
Thank you for opening your heart and the life of your son and your home for us.
It means a great deal to me.
Thank you.
'My last stop in Brazil is to meet Rio congressman Jair Bolsonaro, 'the politician who is blocking the proposed anti-homophobia law 'and education programme.
' Senor Deputado.
Stephen Fry.
Si.
Nice to meet you.
'A number of right-wing Christian groups support him in this, 'including some neo-Nazi groups.
'Though it may be a struggle, 'I'm determined to keep my cool with him 'so I can try to get to the bottom 'of why he feels so threatened by homosexuality.
' Whoa! Fantastico! Wonderful.
Lindo, si.
Wonderful, yes.
I'm sure you remember the case of Alexandre, who was killed.
He was 14, 15 years old, and he was tortured.
And the police and everybody involved in the case believes it was a case of a homophobic attack.
Seems to me there is something deeply wrong in Brazilian society, that such hatred Every other day, apparently, there's a homophobic killing in Brazil.
Well It's interesting you use the word "normal".
I have a great interest in zoology.
There are 480 species of animal that exhibit homosexual behaviour, but only one species of animal on Earth that exhibits homophobic behaviour.
So which is normal? Well, I If the child is happy.
You see, itit The only reason they may be unhappy is because they know there's homophobia in society and therefore their child may be bullied.
But if the world is not homophobic, then, why should a parent worry? I have never, ever wanted anybody to be gay who is not gay.
Ever! I think that's the most absurd idea.
I also happen to be English.
I don't want people to be English.
"Phobos" is the Greek for "fear".
Homophobia is fear of gay people.
I wondered how, in a society, why people should be afraid of gays.
No.
No.
Fear Yes! You should.
You should.
I agree.
Absolutely.
No! I should be invited.
HE LAUGHS No.
I should be invited.
BOLSONARO LAUGHS MANIACALLY BOLSONARO'S LAUGHTER ECHOING 'That must rank amongst the strangest 'and most chilling encounters I've ever experienced.
' 'Bolsonaro is typical of homophobes I've met all over the world, 'with their mantra that gays are out to take over society, 'recruit children or abuse them.
'Even in a progressive country like Brazil, 'their lies create hysteria amongst the uneducated, 'from which violence can grow 'that can end in brutal attacks like the one that killed Alexandre Ivo.
' One can clearly see that it WAS a homophobic crime, which makes the politician's shrug of the shoulders all the more appalling to me.
Because, while it's true that there are always going to be murders, there are some sorts of murder that you can deal with.
You can get rid of hate crimes, and you do it by education, by just showing people.
It's quite simply much easier to be gay if you live in an area of a city that is full of educated people, because educated people aren't filled with hatred towards gay people.
It's as simple as that.
You only hate when you're ignorant and you're afraid.
And ignorance and fear is fostered by a lot of things.
Poverty is one.
I'm afraid I'm going to have to come out and say, I think evangelical Christianity is another.
I think fundamental religion, it's very much part of its agenda to encourage ignorance and a very narrow education which has often very unpleasant things to say about gay people.
I hope, if these films do anything, it is, they reinforce the fact that behind every statistic there is a beating human heart.
'While Brazil should certainly celebrate her progress, 'she should also be vigilant.
' 'Because if history has taught us anything, 'it's that progress can be reversed.
' 'Russia decriminalised homosexuality back in 1993, 'at the end of the Soviet era.
'But now it appears to be regressing.
' 'The government is becoming increasingly conservative, 'while the Russian Orthodox Church 'has become the most powerful institution in the country.
'So it's no surprise that homophobia is rife.
' THEY CHANT IN RUSSIAN Nationalist and religious extremists are thriving.
And, in a recent poll, 50 percent of Russians said they feel disgusted by homosexuals.
'Now even the law is beginning to target gays, 'beginning here in St Petersburg.
' Well, St Petersburg always used to have the reputation of being the most liberal and advanced city in Russia.
Tchaikovsky, Diaghilev, were amongst its most famous citizens, both of whom were gay.
And then, just a few years ago, a law was enacted which made it illegal to promote homosexuality to minors, which is an almost impossible thing to control as a law.
Everybody agrees that forcing people under the age of consent to try and go one way sexually or another, or indeed to groom them for sexuality, is a completely separate and absolutely correct crime, but not to educate the young in the possibilities of sexuality, especially those growing up with a feeling they might be gay, is to store up terrible trouble.
SIREN WAILING IN DISTANCE The man behind the new law is the deputy of St Petersburg, Vitaly Millinov.
'He believes he can prevent a new generation of Russians 'from becoming gay by banning so-called gay propaganda.
'It's created an impossible situation for gay parents here, 'who could now be accused of promoting their homosexuality to their own children.
' It's just right here.
Oh! Oh! Slippery.
Russian winter.
You always need to be careful.
'Olga, a local activist, has arranged for me to meet 'some of those living with the fallout from the law.
' Hello.
Hello.
Hi.
Whoa, nice and warm.
I shall take my hat off.
'Irena and Olga have been together for 12 years, 'and each have one child from previous relationships, '20-year-old Daniel, and Christina, 'who, at 16, is still considered a minor.
' According to this new law, every day you are breaking the law by promoting homosexuality to Christina.
Does it actually seriously worry you that the day may come when you as a family are threatened by this new law? 'Living as children of gay parents has affected Daniel and Christina, 'though not in the way some of you might expect.
'They are both happy, and they are both straight.
'So much for "gay propaganda".
' STEPHEN LAUGHS Yes.
It's absurd.
'Absurd as it is, 'the impact of this law shouldn't be underestimated.
'One in every four gay teens here has attempted suicide, 'yet it's now illegal to offer them information or support.
' 'I'm dropping in on a group called Coming Out, 'which was set up to do just that.
' Aha! 'But now its days could be numbered.
' Hello, everybody.
Hi! Good evening.
Hello, Olga.
I would like you to meet Daria and Maxim.
Daria, hello.
Max.
Maxim, hello.
Do you find life difficult at your age, being gay? Have you had a bad experience of it, each of you? Did you try and ask for the police to catch these people? Were the police interested, or were they just as homophobic, in a sense, as the gang? I just wondered if you were, in a sense, ashamed of your country, if you have a leader who talks about people like you as if you were freaks and have no rights, um, in the 21st century.
Does this make you angry and ashamed? 'I'm sure there isn't a gay person in the world 'who doesn't know what it feels like to be threatened 'because of your sexuality, but it makes my blood boil 'to think that, in a modern city like St Petersburg, 'the police will do nothing to protect you - 'while Deputy Millinov, who's also training to be a priest, 'sanctions their behaviour.
' It makes me respect Daria and Maxim and other kids like that for their bravery and their courage in coming out and helping others come out, because they live in perpetual fear of getting beaten up, of getting physically threatened.
It's a real fear, and it's one that's endorsed by politicians.
It's just very, very sad that such a beautiful and extraordinary culture should be in the hands of that mixture of nationalists whose knuckles graze the ground and hypocritical priests who dare to presume to tell the world how to act on the basis of what? No extra knowledge, no extra insight, just, um, authority that they take on themselves.
'I've just learned that Millinov is willing to meet me, 'maybe flushed by the news that his anti-gay propaganda law 'is about to be rolled out across all Russia, 'a country I happen to be rather famous in.
' Hello! 'And, perhaps sensing an almighty row, 'the media is out in force.
' I'm very happy to talk to you, but after I've spoken to Deputy Millinov, if you don't mind.
Are you all right there? I have an appointment, and I don't want to keep him waiting.
That's really not the most convenient time, but I'm happy to.
Look at Putin, look at Dobby, the house elf, and remember that's all he is.
He's a little house elf.
Wish me luck! Thank you.
Hello! Now, you mustn't make me late for Deputy Millinov.
I'm following Who am I following? Through here? Hello.
Hello.
Yeah.
And through here? Deputy Millinov.
Good day.
Very good to see you.
Thank you for giving me your time.
I wondered, Deputy, if the first thing you could do is just explain to me, because these things get complicated when people report them and then report them again, exactly what it is that you have made a law here in St Petersburg.
Wh-What is now illegal that used to be legal? What is illegal is entering uncontrolled public statement forming the incorrect impression about social equality, all for single, of same-sex and traditional families.
We also can't speak about some historical figures.
So you're not allowed to say that, say, Tchaikovsky's sexuality was anything to do with his talent? That would be breaking the law? No.
Even if the fact that Tchaikovsky was unhappy about being gay, and it gave him the conflict that is in his music? It's a crime to tell kids that only this way of living made him so talented.
Nobody would say that.
But what they might say, Deputy, they might say is, "Look, you're a 15, 16 year old.
" "You're being bullied.
But don't worry.
" "There were some great men who achieved great things who had the same sexuality as you.
" We would be quite unhappy, in case some inadequate individual would invade kindergarten, trying to explain to minors that they should identify their sexual identity.
They don't invade kindergartens and tell children to have their sexual identity.
That is absolute nonsense.
You're inventing a ridiculous enemy to get support, so that ignorant people will imagine there is this terrible threat to children.
The real threat to children is, as it always was, ignorance, lies.
Because they will grow up to find out they've been lied to, and they won't thank you for it.
I spoke to a girl yesterday.
They tried to rape her, to "cure" her of her homosexuality.
She goes to the police.
As soon as they find she's a lesbian - "Go away.
" The police don't respect It's a fairytale.
It's a fairytale.
Oh, she was lying, was she? Gay people, most of them are lying about their problems, because Wow! .
.
most of them would like to be HE LAUGHS .
.
to be favoured and famous, because they are victims of Russian medieval behaviour.
You're living in a fantasy world.
The problem is that she became lesbian, not because her, er, her um, genetic defect.
Not because her mutation.
You really ought to stop, because you're making a great fool of yourself on camera.
This is going to be shown around the world, and if people hear you speaking like this, they're going to think so little of Russia.
They'll think, "Is this man allowed to use the street and the telephone, let alone be a politician?" These values that you proclaim as modern and tolerant, is the values that were created from the first hour of having this world, when the most talented angel felled, because he thought that he was greater than God.
This is quite You're really not making any sense, Deputy.
You really aren't.
You're half a politician, half a semi-educated religious person.
Whom do you represent? I'm not here to attack Russia.
I love Russia, and it's better than you are.
In your generation Yes? .
.
the number of homosexual people were much less.
A number? How do you know this? Because I know that Tell me how you know it.
Scientific figures.
Published by whom? Published by scientists.
But name them! Where will I find these figures? I'm not going on and on and on about the dreadful things you've said.
Say what you like, but don't make it a law that causes people to commit suicide.
You have more young Russians killing themselves of this land of - Because Oh, the Liberals make them do it? Yes.
I just don't know how you sleep at night.
I can sleep after I pray.
Anyway, I have to go and speak to these nice people out here.
'I fear I've failed to sway Millinov, 'but it seems a shame to waste the media attention 'when others out there might see sense on this issue.
' I think everything should just calm down about this.
It's not a big issue.
All it's about is tolerance and acceptance.
And it may be that most Russians, if asked in a poll, would say they disapproved of homosexuality, they didn't think it was traditional Russian - well, fine.
But there are so many other things for the world to worry about! Concentrating on making gay people a kind of scapegoat, like the Jews were in the 1930s, seems to me a very dangerous sign.
I do wish every lonely teenager out there, I wish them all the love in the world, because it's the richer the group of young people who are unusual you have in a country, then, the greater the culture.
So, thank you all very much.
Sorry.
Bye-bye.
Thank you.
It was like trying to nail a jelly to the wall, to be honest.
just to get him to express his point of view.
Maybe he felt the same about me.
It's clear he doesn't like anything that he considers liberal.
It's the biggest insult in the world.
He didn't understand my point of view.
It might be arrogant of me to say so, but I think I understood his, um, but just didn't feel it was a point of view that could be, should be, enshrined into statute, not try to interfere with the traditions of That's the word you come across all the time.
"Tradition".
It's justwhat? The tradition is torture, inquisition, um, illiteracy, disease Those are traditions, if you want to go back 400 years.
The other tradition is progress, is trying to get things right, slowly, painfully, often making mistakes, but with the best will that you can muster.
SIREN WAILING IN DISTANCE Some of the mistakes that us Brits have made in the name of progress can take centuries can undo.
'India is on its way to becoming a global superpower, 'and is shaking off the last vestiges 'of 200 years of British rule.
' HORNS BLARE 'It's recently overturned the Victorian law 'that criminalised homosexuality, 'and now, embracing its Hindu traditions, 'is forging its own way forward with respect to gay rights.
' I've come to India because, around the world, the experience of being gay can be looked at in tyrannical countries, in democracies, in countries that are going through transition.
But India is the largest democracy in the world, and it's so notable for its incredible insistence on family.
I wonder how much gay life is even exists here, because the culture is so different.
'I've been invited to meet the Iyer family, 'whose 33-year-old son Harish 'is one of the first to speak openly about being gay in India.
' Hello! How are you? Nice to see you.
Nice to meet you.
He is my father, and that's my professor.
Oh, hello! Hello! And this is my grandmum, and this is my mother.
Pleased to meet you.
Hello.
Lovely to meet you.
Gay men usually end up living with their families, because in Indian culture, you end up looking after your parents.
Does that make it difficult for you to have a relationship? Can you bring a partner home? Um, now I can.
My grandmum is pretty conservative, though.
She was OK with me getting a partner home, but she wanted the partner to not be a Christian, to not be a Muslim, to be a Brahmin Right.
So you're high caste.
So, yeah.
It's absolutely fine for her.
It didn't really matter to her whether it was a boy or a girl.
That's very, very interesting.
Can you remember when Harish told you that he was gay? Yeah.
A little bit it was a shock.
He is a family man as such.
He loves family.
He loves people around him.
In fact he wanted to get married and have children.
He is very fond of children.
So that made me a bit sad.
How are you with your neighbours and everyone else? Do they It's like I don't go broadcasting that my son is gay.
But when they ask me When the son goes broadcasting THEY LAUGH Literally broadcasting, on TV.
Your neighbours must know, you think? But they just don't talk about it.
They don't.
To me they haven't spoken so far.
Yeah.
But someone ought to! And you're comfortable with your son's That's true.
The most important thing, you would think, like a parent, is for him to be happy.
You want him to be happy, yes.
Yeah.
And that's a thing that people have in India.
"In the end, he's happy this way.
" My mother accepts.
My father, he's not accepting per se, but he doesn't mind my sexuality, so I feel both, in a way, is very important.
Family is absolutely central to the nature of India, and the identity of it as a country.
Everything is expressible through the family and understandable only through understanding the family.
So to see a gay man living with his family, not having been rejected by them, not having been shown the door, but being accepted, is really impressive, and I think it shows that everything's come a long way.
It's rather terrific.
You can see the remnants of the old Raj still, even in a city like Bombay, and, in fact, the sexuality laws of India were also dominated by the Raj, right up until 2009 when the co- That's rather bizarre.
I think I've just seen a That is a rainbow flag.
I don't know if it means the same here.
It can't be.
It says D'kloset.
Hang on.
Hi! Hello! Hi.
Are you a gay shop? Yes.
Oh, fantastic! I'm Stephen.
I'm Inder.
Hello.
Hi.
How nice to meet you! It's like Soho in London.
Yes.
It's like London.
That's fantastic.
Are you successful? Yes, yes.
Have a look around.
I will do! Thank you! Oh, yes, all the really good gay stuff.
Are you here as a customer? Yeah.
Are you gay, then? Yes, I'm queer.
And just girls? Are you a lesbian, or I'm bisexual, but I have a partner right now.
A male partner or a female partner? A female partner.
Right.
In some sense it does feel very alien, this concept of identifying as for my sexuality.
Our culture, we have a lot of stress on marriage.
Yes.
And, er, men can afford to not get married, or, you know, somehow the stress on marriage is slightly less or not entirely, but on women the stress for marriage is a lot.
Women can't really speak about their sexuality as openly, so as a woman, having to not only say that I'm bisexual, queer as well as bisexual, means in some sense I'm implying that I have these desires, and speaking about desire itself in India is a littleyou know? And yet the weird thing is, it was the British who brought in the law that said being gay was a crime.
They didn't use the word "gay".
They used "unnatural", "buggery", or whatever word they used, "sodomy" or something.
So the idea that it's not natural to India was never put into laws before the British, before the Raj.
Actually, India has a culture, I mean, for people who actually study it, which was very inclusive.
The Kama Sutra speaks about gay sex as well, but people don't want to really see that.
It's very funny, because they don't realise they are following the British in some sense.
Just before you leave, I want to give you a thank-you for dropping into my store.
You look very nice in this.
Thank you! You're so kind! It's just the right size, I have to confess.
There you are.
I'll give you a gay hug.
A friendly hug.
Thank you very much indeed.
'While Mumbai's fledgling gay culture shows promise, 'part of the LGBT community has thrived here for centuries.
The Hijras are India's ancient male- to-female transgender community.
They were once celebrated in Indian society, and believed to have a connection with the gods.
Some even held prominent positions in royal households and government.
But then the British arrived and ostracised them.
Today the Hijras live in slums, where many scrape a living in sex work and have been hit hard by the AIDS virus.
'But accessing proper health care has been difficult, 'because the government is only beginning to recognise their gender identity.
'Shunned by society, they've relied on each other, 'and I've been invited to meet Gauri, 'who's opened her home as a respite centre.
' Hello! You must be Gauri.
Oh, is that for me? Oh, that is for a welcome.
It is very traditional to welcome.
How lovely! So, you're the guest for my house, so, please, I just want togather.
Please come.
Wonderful.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Oh, this is gorgeous! So, this is our community centre, where we work with Hijras.
They can stay for three, four days over here, and once they get OK, they can go back to the place.
I understand a particular problem with the Hijras is that they are now more rejected than they have ever been, partly because of the high infection rates.
I've read that it's as much as 49 percent.
Yes, it's 49 percent.
Amazing! But there's nothing you can do about the fact that society has changed so much since the early days, the very early days of Hijras, which was much more open and frank about sex, joyful about sex.
I totally agree with you, because what happened when the British came and didn't want it, because, see But I say it is natural! I never feel to sleep with a woman, say, "Yack.
" I'm born a queen.
I'm born a Hijra.
I love to be what I am, and who the hell to God will decide, "This is final.
" So you set your heart on actually having the surgery toto complete gender reassignation? It used to be pretty tough.
No anaesthesia, nothing.
And the pieces were discarded.
Oh, my goodness! But now it is different, because you can have it properly done - No! I will tell you now, still, in India .
.
and they do this castration.
So, it's quite painful.
Sometimes they cut the urethra, so you can't control your urine.
Oh, that's awful.
But the desire is, "I just want to remove it.
" "I just want to remove it.
" There is a procedure called vaginoplasty, as well, where you can replace what was the penis with a It is very costly.
It is not to go and just - You've not undergone this? I just wanted to leave my vagina.
I will tell you the funny thing.
When my operation did it, and then the sister came, and she say, "Your operation is done.
" So I say, "That is proper now? You have made proper now?" Wonderful! The first one you ever saw was your own! My first was "Look at yours.
" She gave me a mirror.
She wouldn't let you see hers? She was very open and friendly.
And I saw the mirror, said, "Yack.
What you have done?" HE LAUGHS See, I am not ashamed at what I have done with myself.
I am very much proud, because I have not cheated any woman.
I have not cheated myself.
But, then, also, I don't have guts to come and stand in front of my dad.
"OK, look.
Your son.
" Not even after 20 years.
I don't know.
I know that he would never accept me.
He They will never.
I know that.
Living alone, once we have to leave the family, biological family, we again here come, and we made a family.
When you've been thrown out of your own family, the next best thing is to make your family yourself.
These are my family.
Julie's just 19 years.
Really? Oh! She's just 19 years, and before five months, she have castration.
Yeah.
Because they know if I will tease a Hijra, no-one will ask me.
But on the street, anyone will come and just ditch you and go.
Mwah! Bye! Bye-bye! Thank you.
'It's upsetting to hear how rejected the Hijras have become.
'But it's made me realise that, 'even amongst my own gay community back home, 'transgenders are often the least accepted and understood.
'As India's gay community gets organised, 'it's showing signs of reaching out to its more vulnerable members, 'and there could be a lesson in that for all of us.
' Nice to see you! You are I am Pallav.
You are Pallav.
Lovely to meet you.
This is where the Humsafar Trust has its home? This is the reception area of the Humsafar Trust, where we receive people who come in for HIV testing or receiving further surgery.
BOLLYWOOD-STYLE MUSIC 'Abheena Aher is trying to offer an alternative to sex work 'for her community, 'and has set up the country's first transgender dance troupe, 'The Dancing Queens.
' This is how society is.
And it is very funny, because you worship Lord Shiva, the Ardhanarishvara, which is a combination, half body of a man and half body of a woman, but you are not willing to accept a transgender in a society.
BOLLYWOOD-STYLE MUSIC When you talk about Hijras, people always presume that they belong to a lower class of society.
No.
It's terrible, isn't it? It is all about giving that first chance.
Absolutely.
And it will happen, I'm sure.
It'll be too slow for anybody's patience, but it will happen.
Oh! Brava! Before I bid a fond farewell to India, I've been invited to say a few words at a club popular on Mumbai's up-and-coming gay scene.
Whoa! ALL SHOUT AND CHATTER Excuse me.
SHE GASPS Oh, my God! CHEERING Thank you very much.
Thank you.
It's wonderful to be here.
Thank you so much for welcoming me.
I am here because it's part of a documentary I'm making about being gay around the world.
THEY CHEER Now, what, you may think, have I concluded about India? What am I taking away tonight, in fact, which is my flight back home, sadly.
I shall carry you in my heart forever.
ALL: Ahhh! HE LAUGHS That's all right.
You are such an easy lay! THEY LAUGH Um It's a very extraordinary thing.
Everybody has told me how important family is here, how difficult it is to come out, not because your parents are disgusted by homosexuality, but because they're slightly embarrassed about what they're going to tell Mrs Patel next door, and THEY LAUGH Just, um But once they get over that, they're more interested, if you're going to have a boyfriend or a girlfriend, that they are a doctor or they've got a really good job, and if they have, then it's fine, and that is the most balanced and sane response that I've come across.
It seems apparent to me that this is one of the most comfortable countries in which to be gay, especially, of course - and this is your duty - especially if you are educated, English-speaking, middle class Let's be honest, it is easier for you than it is for the Hijra in the slum.
Yeah! APPLAUSE And therefore, I should imagine that you are all as excited, er, in the years to come, in pushing that out into the suburbs, into the rural areas, to make it really count.
Wouldn't that be exciting? THEY CHEER AND APPLAUD 'In the two and a half years I've been making this series, 'the gay issue has continued to be debated at home.
' Many years ago, I had the great good fortune to meet someone.
She and I have loved each other since This bill weakens what exists and replaces it with a less good option.
It is as foolish to condemn those who have homosexual proclivities as it is to condemn them for having red hair, and I have lived with that all my life.
'And now one of the most dramatic steps ever taken for gay equality 'has come to pass.
' Well, it's wonderful to come back to a Britain where we are celebrating the news that a House of Commons and even a House of Lords has passed into law a gay-marriage bill which could soon be enacted such that people really will be able to marry people of their own gender.
That's Not that anyone would have me, but it's still fantastic news.
But it's not enough for laws to change.
Attitudes have to change.
It was here, after all, in Trafalgar Square itself, the very centre of London, one of the safest cities in which to be gay in the world, where Ian Baynham, only a few years ago, was savagely kicked to death.
So homophobia is still a world problem.
Homosexuality isn't, and never has been.
Homosexuals are not interested in making other people homosexual.
Homophobics ARE interested in making other people homophobic.
I think we just have to take stock of ourselves very honestly and independently, and simply to, erto love.
Um Er It's really that simple.
It's all about love.
SONG: "Fever To The Form" by Nick Mulvey Cos the very thing you're afraid Afraid of That keeps you clean but unclear Clean but unclear Is the dirt that you're made Made of
' CONTAINS SOME SCENES WHICH SOME VIEWERS MAY FIND UPSETTING It's as if you met someone who was absolutely spent all their life trying to get rid of red telephones.
You'd go, "What? Wh-What" It You know You just would not understand it.
'Why would someone bother to attack a group of people 'who mean and do them no harm? 'This is a series about gay people, 'and the trouble people have accepting them.
' I'm good too.
How do you do? 'Over the last two years, 'when time allowed, I travelled to meet some of the most notorious homophobes on the planet' Senor Deputado.
Stephen Fry.
.
.
'to challenge their prejudice and to find out where their hatred comes from.
' Gay people Most of them are lying about their problems.
You're really not making any sense, Deputy.
You really aren't.
Homosexuality is fantastic.
You should try it.
I will arrest you.
I will arrest you! But when your penis is terrorising someone - My penis isn't! My penis doesn't do that.
'I also had a chance to meet some of the people 'who are victims of this prejudice, 'as well as those fighting against it.
' I never feel to sleep with a woman, say, "Yack.
" I'm born a queen! SHE SPEAKS PORTUGUESE 'Of course, this matters to me because I'm gay.
'But homophobia impacts on all of us.
'It diminishes our humanity, and you can find it all around the world.
' Quite simply, this is about love, commitment and mutual respect.
'It's extraordinary to think that, after 200,000 years on the planet, 'humankind is still struggling with how some of us love.
'Even here in Britain, 'gay love and marriage still give rise to some very heated debate.
'I've already visited parts of Africa 'where the solution put forward about gay people is to kill us.
'And I've been to America, where some think we can be cured.
'In this film, I want to know about the future, 'and what the countries that will be the powerhouses of tomorrow 'have in mind for the next generation of gays.
' I'm heading south to Brazil, a country that in just 25 years has gone from widespread discrimination against gays to full legal equality with its straight citizens.
The city of Sao Paulo hosts the world's biggest Gay Pride parade.
'Four million people, gay and straight, 'joined in celebration of rights that were once unimaginable.
'The future for the next generation of gay Brazilians 'looks dazzlingly bright, 'thanks to the likes of Joao Silverio Trevisan, 'who was amongst the first to stand up and fight.
' Imagine you are 20 years old, and I was to put you in a time machine and take you to this event.
You would not believe it, would you? I could not believe.
I mean, it makes me cry.
When I stood on the float and I saw all the people It makes me cry now.
I cry.
And they were jumping up and down I always cry.
And I see It just makes me so proud and so happy.
So happy.
I'm very happy too.
Yeah.
I'm very, very happy.
It's really beautiful.
I fought all my life for my right of loving, and when I see these, I feel like part of each one.
Yeah.
It's fantastic.
It's truly fantastic.
You're a hero.
You're a real hero, and I admire you so much.
Me too.
Me too, me too.
So much.
If there is anybody on the planet who hates pop music played loudly, people gathered together in damp, unpleasant conditions and being physically tactile, it's me.
I would rather have my liver sucked out through my nose than go to Glastonbury, and an event like this is usually the kind of thing I would most hate.
But it's not just my own gay pride that makes me love this.
There is something quite remarkable, there's an atmosphere I don't think a camera or a microphone can capture it, but I do think that the future lies in people coming together like this, not to protest but to celebrate.
But the Pride parade conceals a darker side to gay life in Brazil.
The sheer speed of progress here has given rise to an anti-gay backlash where a gay person is murdered every 36 hours.
'Before the evening's parties begin, 'I'm dropping in on Brazil's most glamorous drag queen, 'Renata Peron .
.
'who's paid her share of the price of progress.
' One day you were crossing the Praca Republica, and a terrible thing happened.
Can you tell me about that? HE SPEAKS PORTUGUESE Many people would never go out alone again.
They would retire into a small like a snail into a shell.
But you've done the opposite.
You've come out like a butterfly.
This is your answer to the violence and the homophobia that you were the victim of.
Si! Right.
Wow.
Beautiful! HE LAUGHS HE APPLAUDS Oh, thank you! You're too kind.
See, my trouble is, I'm too lazy to be a drag queen, as well as too ugly.
THEY LAUGH STEPHEN CLAPS I've always loved drag queens.
If you like surprising things, to some, it's that those who are the most femme, those who glam themselves up and are more than camp, they're actually feminine in their dress and their attire, um, are probably the most courageous of all the gay community.
Historically, it was the drag queens who fought the police at Stonewall that began, kick-started really, the gay-liberation movement.
It's, um, I suppose, the daily act of walking down the street in drag makes them often be at the very forefront of the strongest and most angry reactions against homophobia.
Stephen? It's bound to happen.
Are you ready? Pronto? OK.
Let's go and do the final bit of zhuzh-ing.
I'm coming, my darling.
Right.
Just do you up? Si, por favor.
STEPHEN LAUGHS RENATA PROTESTS IN PORTUGUESE Oh! Whoo! Oh, my goodness.
Is that for me? Si.
Colado! Thank you.
It goes with my Norwich-stroke-Brazil top.
Oh, my God! You think? RENATA LAUGHS I look like Sideshow Bob from The Simpsons.
Mind your heels.
'After all its triumphs, the fight for gay rights 'has once again stepped into the political arena, 'and this time Brazil's children are at the centre of the debate.
' 'A fierce battle has broken out over a new law 'which proposes to outlaw homophobia 'and to educate teenagers about the damage it causes.
' Your own personal Jesus Someone to hear your prayers 'I've come to Rio to meet Congressman Jair Bolsonaro 'who's determined to block this law, and along with his supporters 'in the religious and conservative right, 'bring an end to the advances of the gay-rights movement.
' Someone to hear your prayers, someone who's there 'This at a time when anti-gay crime is on the rise in the city.
' Reach out and touch faith 'A year ago, 'on the streets of this Rio suburb, 'a 14-year-old boy called Alexandre Ivo was abducted by skinheads 'as he returned home alone from a party.
' Reach out and touch faith 'What followed was a hate crime that shook the entire country, 'and changed his mother's life forever.
' SIRENS WAILING IN DISTANCE Angelica? Stephen.
Prazer.
Prazer.
Prazer.
Hey SHE INHALES You can You can smell him? He's still here? Alexandre was out with gay friends when the gang first spotted him.
Angelica believes they targeted him simply because he looked gay.
And And then, one terrible night almost a year ago, hehe was taken? He was taken away? Oh! Yes.
Oh, so young.
So very young.
HE SIGHS 'The three men accused of murdering Alexandre were never prosecuted.
'Had anti-homophobia laws been in place, 'things may have been different.
' What do you say to people like the politician um, Jair Bolsonaro, you know? He thinks that gay people should shut up and he doesn't believe homophobic crime is a serious matter.
Yes.
Thank you for opening your heart and the life of your son and your home for us.
It means a great deal to me.
Thank you.
'My last stop in Brazil is to meet Rio congressman Jair Bolsonaro, 'the politician who is blocking the proposed anti-homophobia law 'and education programme.
' Senor Deputado.
Stephen Fry.
Si.
Nice to meet you.
'A number of right-wing Christian groups support him in this, 'including some neo-Nazi groups.
'Though it may be a struggle, 'I'm determined to keep my cool with him 'so I can try to get to the bottom 'of why he feels so threatened by homosexuality.
' Whoa! Fantastico! Wonderful.
Lindo, si.
Wonderful, yes.
I'm sure you remember the case of Alexandre, who was killed.
He was 14, 15 years old, and he was tortured.
And the police and everybody involved in the case believes it was a case of a homophobic attack.
Seems to me there is something deeply wrong in Brazilian society, that such hatred Every other day, apparently, there's a homophobic killing in Brazil.
Well It's interesting you use the word "normal".
I have a great interest in zoology.
There are 480 species of animal that exhibit homosexual behaviour, but only one species of animal on Earth that exhibits homophobic behaviour.
So which is normal? Well, I If the child is happy.
You see, itit The only reason they may be unhappy is because they know there's homophobia in society and therefore their child may be bullied.
But if the world is not homophobic, then, why should a parent worry? I have never, ever wanted anybody to be gay who is not gay.
Ever! I think that's the most absurd idea.
I also happen to be English.
I don't want people to be English.
"Phobos" is the Greek for "fear".
Homophobia is fear of gay people.
I wondered how, in a society, why people should be afraid of gays.
No.
No.
Fear Yes! You should.
You should.
I agree.
Absolutely.
No! I should be invited.
HE LAUGHS No.
I should be invited.
BOLSONARO LAUGHS MANIACALLY BOLSONARO'S LAUGHTER ECHOING 'That must rank amongst the strangest 'and most chilling encounters I've ever experienced.
' 'Bolsonaro is typical of homophobes I've met all over the world, 'with their mantra that gays are out to take over society, 'recruit children or abuse them.
'Even in a progressive country like Brazil, 'their lies create hysteria amongst the uneducated, 'from which violence can grow 'that can end in brutal attacks like the one that killed Alexandre Ivo.
' One can clearly see that it WAS a homophobic crime, which makes the politician's shrug of the shoulders all the more appalling to me.
Because, while it's true that there are always going to be murders, there are some sorts of murder that you can deal with.
You can get rid of hate crimes, and you do it by education, by just showing people.
It's quite simply much easier to be gay if you live in an area of a city that is full of educated people, because educated people aren't filled with hatred towards gay people.
It's as simple as that.
You only hate when you're ignorant and you're afraid.
And ignorance and fear is fostered by a lot of things.
Poverty is one.
I'm afraid I'm going to have to come out and say, I think evangelical Christianity is another.
I think fundamental religion, it's very much part of its agenda to encourage ignorance and a very narrow education which has often very unpleasant things to say about gay people.
I hope, if these films do anything, it is, they reinforce the fact that behind every statistic there is a beating human heart.
'While Brazil should certainly celebrate her progress, 'she should also be vigilant.
' 'Because if history has taught us anything, 'it's that progress can be reversed.
' 'Russia decriminalised homosexuality back in 1993, 'at the end of the Soviet era.
'But now it appears to be regressing.
' 'The government is becoming increasingly conservative, 'while the Russian Orthodox Church 'has become the most powerful institution in the country.
'So it's no surprise that homophobia is rife.
' THEY CHANT IN RUSSIAN Nationalist and religious extremists are thriving.
And, in a recent poll, 50 percent of Russians said they feel disgusted by homosexuals.
'Now even the law is beginning to target gays, 'beginning here in St Petersburg.
' Well, St Petersburg always used to have the reputation of being the most liberal and advanced city in Russia.
Tchaikovsky, Diaghilev, were amongst its most famous citizens, both of whom were gay.
And then, just a few years ago, a law was enacted which made it illegal to promote homosexuality to minors, which is an almost impossible thing to control as a law.
Everybody agrees that forcing people under the age of consent to try and go one way sexually or another, or indeed to groom them for sexuality, is a completely separate and absolutely correct crime, but not to educate the young in the possibilities of sexuality, especially those growing up with a feeling they might be gay, is to store up terrible trouble.
SIREN WAILING IN DISTANCE The man behind the new law is the deputy of St Petersburg, Vitaly Millinov.
'He believes he can prevent a new generation of Russians 'from becoming gay by banning so-called gay propaganda.
'It's created an impossible situation for gay parents here, 'who could now be accused of promoting their homosexuality to their own children.
' It's just right here.
Oh! Oh! Slippery.
Russian winter.
You always need to be careful.
'Olga, a local activist, has arranged for me to meet 'some of those living with the fallout from the law.
' Hello.
Hello.
Hi.
Whoa, nice and warm.
I shall take my hat off.
'Irena and Olga have been together for 12 years, 'and each have one child from previous relationships, '20-year-old Daniel, and Christina, 'who, at 16, is still considered a minor.
' According to this new law, every day you are breaking the law by promoting homosexuality to Christina.
Does it actually seriously worry you that the day may come when you as a family are threatened by this new law? 'Living as children of gay parents has affected Daniel and Christina, 'though not in the way some of you might expect.
'They are both happy, and they are both straight.
'So much for "gay propaganda".
' STEPHEN LAUGHS Yes.
It's absurd.
'Absurd as it is, 'the impact of this law shouldn't be underestimated.
'One in every four gay teens here has attempted suicide, 'yet it's now illegal to offer them information or support.
' 'I'm dropping in on a group called Coming Out, 'which was set up to do just that.
' Aha! 'But now its days could be numbered.
' Hello, everybody.
Hi! Good evening.
Hello, Olga.
I would like you to meet Daria and Maxim.
Daria, hello.
Max.
Maxim, hello.
Do you find life difficult at your age, being gay? Have you had a bad experience of it, each of you? Did you try and ask for the police to catch these people? Were the police interested, or were they just as homophobic, in a sense, as the gang? I just wondered if you were, in a sense, ashamed of your country, if you have a leader who talks about people like you as if you were freaks and have no rights, um, in the 21st century.
Does this make you angry and ashamed? 'I'm sure there isn't a gay person in the world 'who doesn't know what it feels like to be threatened 'because of your sexuality, but it makes my blood boil 'to think that, in a modern city like St Petersburg, 'the police will do nothing to protect you - 'while Deputy Millinov, who's also training to be a priest, 'sanctions their behaviour.
' It makes me respect Daria and Maxim and other kids like that for their bravery and their courage in coming out and helping others come out, because they live in perpetual fear of getting beaten up, of getting physically threatened.
It's a real fear, and it's one that's endorsed by politicians.
It's just very, very sad that such a beautiful and extraordinary culture should be in the hands of that mixture of nationalists whose knuckles graze the ground and hypocritical priests who dare to presume to tell the world how to act on the basis of what? No extra knowledge, no extra insight, just, um, authority that they take on themselves.
'I've just learned that Millinov is willing to meet me, 'maybe flushed by the news that his anti-gay propaganda law 'is about to be rolled out across all Russia, 'a country I happen to be rather famous in.
' Hello! 'And, perhaps sensing an almighty row, 'the media is out in force.
' I'm very happy to talk to you, but after I've spoken to Deputy Millinov, if you don't mind.
Are you all right there? I have an appointment, and I don't want to keep him waiting.
That's really not the most convenient time, but I'm happy to.
Look at Putin, look at Dobby, the house elf, and remember that's all he is.
He's a little house elf.
Wish me luck! Thank you.
Hello! Now, you mustn't make me late for Deputy Millinov.
I'm following Who am I following? Through here? Hello.
Hello.
Yeah.
And through here? Deputy Millinov.
Good day.
Very good to see you.
Thank you for giving me your time.
I wondered, Deputy, if the first thing you could do is just explain to me, because these things get complicated when people report them and then report them again, exactly what it is that you have made a law here in St Petersburg.
Wh-What is now illegal that used to be legal? What is illegal is entering uncontrolled public statement forming the incorrect impression about social equality, all for single, of same-sex and traditional families.
We also can't speak about some historical figures.
So you're not allowed to say that, say, Tchaikovsky's sexuality was anything to do with his talent? That would be breaking the law? No.
Even if the fact that Tchaikovsky was unhappy about being gay, and it gave him the conflict that is in his music? It's a crime to tell kids that only this way of living made him so talented.
Nobody would say that.
But what they might say, Deputy, they might say is, "Look, you're a 15, 16 year old.
" "You're being bullied.
But don't worry.
" "There were some great men who achieved great things who had the same sexuality as you.
" We would be quite unhappy, in case some inadequate individual would invade kindergarten, trying to explain to minors that they should identify their sexual identity.
They don't invade kindergartens and tell children to have their sexual identity.
That is absolute nonsense.
You're inventing a ridiculous enemy to get support, so that ignorant people will imagine there is this terrible threat to children.
The real threat to children is, as it always was, ignorance, lies.
Because they will grow up to find out they've been lied to, and they won't thank you for it.
I spoke to a girl yesterday.
They tried to rape her, to "cure" her of her homosexuality.
She goes to the police.
As soon as they find she's a lesbian - "Go away.
" The police don't respect It's a fairytale.
It's a fairytale.
Oh, she was lying, was she? Gay people, most of them are lying about their problems, because Wow! .
.
most of them would like to be HE LAUGHS .
.
to be favoured and famous, because they are victims of Russian medieval behaviour.
You're living in a fantasy world.
The problem is that she became lesbian, not because her, er, her um, genetic defect.
Not because her mutation.
You really ought to stop, because you're making a great fool of yourself on camera.
This is going to be shown around the world, and if people hear you speaking like this, they're going to think so little of Russia.
They'll think, "Is this man allowed to use the street and the telephone, let alone be a politician?" These values that you proclaim as modern and tolerant, is the values that were created from the first hour of having this world, when the most talented angel felled, because he thought that he was greater than God.
This is quite You're really not making any sense, Deputy.
You really aren't.
You're half a politician, half a semi-educated religious person.
Whom do you represent? I'm not here to attack Russia.
I love Russia, and it's better than you are.
In your generation Yes? .
.
the number of homosexual people were much less.
A number? How do you know this? Because I know that Tell me how you know it.
Scientific figures.
Published by whom? Published by scientists.
But name them! Where will I find these figures? I'm not going on and on and on about the dreadful things you've said.
Say what you like, but don't make it a law that causes people to commit suicide.
You have more young Russians killing themselves of this land of - Because Oh, the Liberals make them do it? Yes.
I just don't know how you sleep at night.
I can sleep after I pray.
Anyway, I have to go and speak to these nice people out here.
'I fear I've failed to sway Millinov, 'but it seems a shame to waste the media attention 'when others out there might see sense on this issue.
' I think everything should just calm down about this.
It's not a big issue.
All it's about is tolerance and acceptance.
And it may be that most Russians, if asked in a poll, would say they disapproved of homosexuality, they didn't think it was traditional Russian - well, fine.
But there are so many other things for the world to worry about! Concentrating on making gay people a kind of scapegoat, like the Jews were in the 1930s, seems to me a very dangerous sign.
I do wish every lonely teenager out there, I wish them all the love in the world, because it's the richer the group of young people who are unusual you have in a country, then, the greater the culture.
So, thank you all very much.
Sorry.
Bye-bye.
Thank you.
It was like trying to nail a jelly to the wall, to be honest.
just to get him to express his point of view.
Maybe he felt the same about me.
It's clear he doesn't like anything that he considers liberal.
It's the biggest insult in the world.
He didn't understand my point of view.
It might be arrogant of me to say so, but I think I understood his, um, but just didn't feel it was a point of view that could be, should be, enshrined into statute, not try to interfere with the traditions of That's the word you come across all the time.
"Tradition".
It's justwhat? The tradition is torture, inquisition, um, illiteracy, disease Those are traditions, if you want to go back 400 years.
The other tradition is progress, is trying to get things right, slowly, painfully, often making mistakes, but with the best will that you can muster.
SIREN WAILING IN DISTANCE Some of the mistakes that us Brits have made in the name of progress can take centuries can undo.
'India is on its way to becoming a global superpower, 'and is shaking off the last vestiges 'of 200 years of British rule.
' HORNS BLARE 'It's recently overturned the Victorian law 'that criminalised homosexuality, 'and now, embracing its Hindu traditions, 'is forging its own way forward with respect to gay rights.
' I've come to India because, around the world, the experience of being gay can be looked at in tyrannical countries, in democracies, in countries that are going through transition.
But India is the largest democracy in the world, and it's so notable for its incredible insistence on family.
I wonder how much gay life is even exists here, because the culture is so different.
'I've been invited to meet the Iyer family, 'whose 33-year-old son Harish 'is one of the first to speak openly about being gay in India.
' Hello! How are you? Nice to see you.
Nice to meet you.
He is my father, and that's my professor.
Oh, hello! Hello! And this is my grandmum, and this is my mother.
Pleased to meet you.
Hello.
Lovely to meet you.
Gay men usually end up living with their families, because in Indian culture, you end up looking after your parents.
Does that make it difficult for you to have a relationship? Can you bring a partner home? Um, now I can.
My grandmum is pretty conservative, though.
She was OK with me getting a partner home, but she wanted the partner to not be a Christian, to not be a Muslim, to be a Brahmin Right.
So you're high caste.
So, yeah.
It's absolutely fine for her.
It didn't really matter to her whether it was a boy or a girl.
That's very, very interesting.
Can you remember when Harish told you that he was gay? Yeah.
A little bit it was a shock.
He is a family man as such.
He loves family.
He loves people around him.
In fact he wanted to get married and have children.
He is very fond of children.
So that made me a bit sad.
How are you with your neighbours and everyone else? Do they It's like I don't go broadcasting that my son is gay.
But when they ask me When the son goes broadcasting THEY LAUGH Literally broadcasting, on TV.
Your neighbours must know, you think? But they just don't talk about it.
They don't.
To me they haven't spoken so far.
Yeah.
But someone ought to! And you're comfortable with your son's That's true.
The most important thing, you would think, like a parent, is for him to be happy.
You want him to be happy, yes.
Yeah.
And that's a thing that people have in India.
"In the end, he's happy this way.
" My mother accepts.
My father, he's not accepting per se, but he doesn't mind my sexuality, so I feel both, in a way, is very important.
Family is absolutely central to the nature of India, and the identity of it as a country.
Everything is expressible through the family and understandable only through understanding the family.
So to see a gay man living with his family, not having been rejected by them, not having been shown the door, but being accepted, is really impressive, and I think it shows that everything's come a long way.
It's rather terrific.
You can see the remnants of the old Raj still, even in a city like Bombay, and, in fact, the sexuality laws of India were also dominated by the Raj, right up until 2009 when the co- That's rather bizarre.
I think I've just seen a That is a rainbow flag.
I don't know if it means the same here.
It can't be.
It says D'kloset.
Hang on.
Hi! Hello! Hi.
Are you a gay shop? Yes.
Oh, fantastic! I'm Stephen.
I'm Inder.
Hello.
Hi.
How nice to meet you! It's like Soho in London.
Yes.
It's like London.
That's fantastic.
Are you successful? Yes, yes.
Have a look around.
I will do! Thank you! Oh, yes, all the really good gay stuff.
Are you here as a customer? Yeah.
Are you gay, then? Yes, I'm queer.
And just girls? Are you a lesbian, or I'm bisexual, but I have a partner right now.
A male partner or a female partner? A female partner.
Right.
In some sense it does feel very alien, this concept of identifying as for my sexuality.
Our culture, we have a lot of stress on marriage.
Yes.
And, er, men can afford to not get married, or, you know, somehow the stress on marriage is slightly less or not entirely, but on women the stress for marriage is a lot.
Women can't really speak about their sexuality as openly, so as a woman, having to not only say that I'm bisexual, queer as well as bisexual, means in some sense I'm implying that I have these desires, and speaking about desire itself in India is a littleyou know? And yet the weird thing is, it was the British who brought in the law that said being gay was a crime.
They didn't use the word "gay".
They used "unnatural", "buggery", or whatever word they used, "sodomy" or something.
So the idea that it's not natural to India was never put into laws before the British, before the Raj.
Actually, India has a culture, I mean, for people who actually study it, which was very inclusive.
The Kama Sutra speaks about gay sex as well, but people don't want to really see that.
It's very funny, because they don't realise they are following the British in some sense.
Just before you leave, I want to give you a thank-you for dropping into my store.
You look very nice in this.
Thank you! You're so kind! It's just the right size, I have to confess.
There you are.
I'll give you a gay hug.
A friendly hug.
Thank you very much indeed.
'While Mumbai's fledgling gay culture shows promise, 'part of the LGBT community has thrived here for centuries.
The Hijras are India's ancient male- to-female transgender community.
They were once celebrated in Indian society, and believed to have a connection with the gods.
Some even held prominent positions in royal households and government.
But then the British arrived and ostracised them.
Today the Hijras live in slums, where many scrape a living in sex work and have been hit hard by the AIDS virus.
'But accessing proper health care has been difficult, 'because the government is only beginning to recognise their gender identity.
'Shunned by society, they've relied on each other, 'and I've been invited to meet Gauri, 'who's opened her home as a respite centre.
' Hello! You must be Gauri.
Oh, is that for me? Oh, that is for a welcome.
It is very traditional to welcome.
How lovely! So, you're the guest for my house, so, please, I just want togather.
Please come.
Wonderful.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Oh, this is gorgeous! So, this is our community centre, where we work with Hijras.
They can stay for three, four days over here, and once they get OK, they can go back to the place.
I understand a particular problem with the Hijras is that they are now more rejected than they have ever been, partly because of the high infection rates.
I've read that it's as much as 49 percent.
Yes, it's 49 percent.
Amazing! But there's nothing you can do about the fact that society has changed so much since the early days, the very early days of Hijras, which was much more open and frank about sex, joyful about sex.
I totally agree with you, because what happened when the British came and didn't want it, because, see But I say it is natural! I never feel to sleep with a woman, say, "Yack.
" I'm born a queen.
I'm born a Hijra.
I love to be what I am, and who the hell to God will decide, "This is final.
" So you set your heart on actually having the surgery toto complete gender reassignation? It used to be pretty tough.
No anaesthesia, nothing.
And the pieces were discarded.
Oh, my goodness! But now it is different, because you can have it properly done - No! I will tell you now, still, in India .
.
and they do this castration.
So, it's quite painful.
Sometimes they cut the urethra, so you can't control your urine.
Oh, that's awful.
But the desire is, "I just want to remove it.
" "I just want to remove it.
" There is a procedure called vaginoplasty, as well, where you can replace what was the penis with a It is very costly.
It is not to go and just - You've not undergone this? I just wanted to leave my vagina.
I will tell you the funny thing.
When my operation did it, and then the sister came, and she say, "Your operation is done.
" So I say, "That is proper now? You have made proper now?" Wonderful! The first one you ever saw was your own! My first was "Look at yours.
" She gave me a mirror.
She wouldn't let you see hers? She was very open and friendly.
And I saw the mirror, said, "Yack.
What you have done?" HE LAUGHS See, I am not ashamed at what I have done with myself.
I am very much proud, because I have not cheated any woman.
I have not cheated myself.
But, then, also, I don't have guts to come and stand in front of my dad.
"OK, look.
Your son.
" Not even after 20 years.
I don't know.
I know that he would never accept me.
He They will never.
I know that.
Living alone, once we have to leave the family, biological family, we again here come, and we made a family.
When you've been thrown out of your own family, the next best thing is to make your family yourself.
These are my family.
Julie's just 19 years.
Really? Oh! She's just 19 years, and before five months, she have castration.
Yeah.
Because they know if I will tease a Hijra, no-one will ask me.
But on the street, anyone will come and just ditch you and go.
Mwah! Bye! Bye-bye! Thank you.
'It's upsetting to hear how rejected the Hijras have become.
'But it's made me realise that, 'even amongst my own gay community back home, 'transgenders are often the least accepted and understood.
'As India's gay community gets organised, 'it's showing signs of reaching out to its more vulnerable members, 'and there could be a lesson in that for all of us.
' Nice to see you! You are I am Pallav.
You are Pallav.
Lovely to meet you.
This is where the Humsafar Trust has its home? This is the reception area of the Humsafar Trust, where we receive people who come in for HIV testing or receiving further surgery.
BOLLYWOOD-STYLE MUSIC 'Abheena Aher is trying to offer an alternative to sex work 'for her community, 'and has set up the country's first transgender dance troupe, 'The Dancing Queens.
' This is how society is.
And it is very funny, because you worship Lord Shiva, the Ardhanarishvara, which is a combination, half body of a man and half body of a woman, but you are not willing to accept a transgender in a society.
BOLLYWOOD-STYLE MUSIC When you talk about Hijras, people always presume that they belong to a lower class of society.
No.
It's terrible, isn't it? It is all about giving that first chance.
Absolutely.
And it will happen, I'm sure.
It'll be too slow for anybody's patience, but it will happen.
Oh! Brava! Before I bid a fond farewell to India, I've been invited to say a few words at a club popular on Mumbai's up-and-coming gay scene.
Whoa! ALL SHOUT AND CHATTER Excuse me.
SHE GASPS Oh, my God! CHEERING Thank you very much.
Thank you.
It's wonderful to be here.
Thank you so much for welcoming me.
I am here because it's part of a documentary I'm making about being gay around the world.
THEY CHEER Now, what, you may think, have I concluded about India? What am I taking away tonight, in fact, which is my flight back home, sadly.
I shall carry you in my heart forever.
ALL: Ahhh! HE LAUGHS That's all right.
You are such an easy lay! THEY LAUGH Um It's a very extraordinary thing.
Everybody has told me how important family is here, how difficult it is to come out, not because your parents are disgusted by homosexuality, but because they're slightly embarrassed about what they're going to tell Mrs Patel next door, and THEY LAUGH Just, um But once they get over that, they're more interested, if you're going to have a boyfriend or a girlfriend, that they are a doctor or they've got a really good job, and if they have, then it's fine, and that is the most balanced and sane response that I've come across.
It seems apparent to me that this is one of the most comfortable countries in which to be gay, especially, of course - and this is your duty - especially if you are educated, English-speaking, middle class Let's be honest, it is easier for you than it is for the Hijra in the slum.
Yeah! APPLAUSE And therefore, I should imagine that you are all as excited, er, in the years to come, in pushing that out into the suburbs, into the rural areas, to make it really count.
Wouldn't that be exciting? THEY CHEER AND APPLAUD 'In the two and a half years I've been making this series, 'the gay issue has continued to be debated at home.
' Many years ago, I had the great good fortune to meet someone.
She and I have loved each other since This bill weakens what exists and replaces it with a less good option.
It is as foolish to condemn those who have homosexual proclivities as it is to condemn them for having red hair, and I have lived with that all my life.
'And now one of the most dramatic steps ever taken for gay equality 'has come to pass.
' Well, it's wonderful to come back to a Britain where we are celebrating the news that a House of Commons and even a House of Lords has passed into law a gay-marriage bill which could soon be enacted such that people really will be able to marry people of their own gender.
That's Not that anyone would have me, but it's still fantastic news.
But it's not enough for laws to change.
Attitudes have to change.
It was here, after all, in Trafalgar Square itself, the very centre of London, one of the safest cities in which to be gay in the world, where Ian Baynham, only a few years ago, was savagely kicked to death.
So homophobia is still a world problem.
Homosexuality isn't, and never has been.
Homosexuals are not interested in making other people homosexual.
Homophobics ARE interested in making other people homophobic.
I think we just have to take stock of ourselves very honestly and independently, and simply to, erto love.
Um Er It's really that simple.
It's all about love.
SONG: "Fever To The Form" by Nick Mulvey Cos the very thing you're afraid Afraid of That keeps you clean but unclear Clean but unclear Is the dirt that you're made Made of