The Detectives (2015) s01e02 Episode Script
Interrogation
1 This programme contains some strong language and scenes which some viewers may find upsetting.
You're investigating crimes now that carry a life sentence.
Murders are easy compared with this.
We live in an age defined by one type of crime.
'A man's been charged following a rape in Manchester city centre' 'Police have begun a formal criminal investigation 'into the Jimmy Savile child abuse allegations' 'Grooming, rape' These crimes carry the harshest sentences, yet have the lowest conviction rates.
LOUD BANG AGAINST DOOR Police! VOICES SHOU I can't tell you you are going to believe every victim stood in front of you and believe everything they say.
But the important thing is that victim believes that you believe them.
Few detectives want to volunteer for the fight.
You're always thinking, I've got to get this right.
You've just got to keep going, moving forward to the next case.
The word that I would use is relentless.
These are the few.
You might go into an interview thinking they've done it, and then come back out of the interview and you don't know what to think.
MUSIC: Hang On To Yourself by David Bowie Ooh, she's a tongue-twisting storm She'll come to the show tonight Praying to the light machine For the last year, Detective Rod Carter has been working on one case.
An investigation into historic sexual abuse involving a friend of Jimmy Savile - Manchester DJ Ray Teret.
'The Ray Teret Show just keeps on boogying along.
'Where would you rather be? 'That's a good question.
' Morning.
Okey doke.
Thank you.
Have you got a pass to get in here? It did work, last time I was here.
Right.
I first heard Ray Teret's name when it became clear that an investigation was taking place.
SHE SIGHS And this was the one who the media had nicknamed Savile's chauffeur.
I'd never heard of him prior to that.
I did a bit of research, looking into who he was.
He was almost like a mini Savile.
One of the victims had said that if Savile changed his hair colour, then the following week Teret would have the same.
Ray Teret was originally arrested following a number of allegations.
One of the first victims to come forward, Cathy, claimed he raped her when she was 12.
After being questioned, Teret was released on bail.
The detectives continued their investigation, now known as Operation Canute.
On either this side or this side is where we think it's going to be.
It led them to Teret's old flat, where they uncovered evidence which had lain hidden for 40 years.
As he took the wallpaper off, right at the top, near the ceiling, I just remember him saying, "I've got a number.
" And then all the wallpaper came down, more and more names and telephone numbers were revealed.
The names scrawled on Teret's wall revealed other victims.
Today, Rod and his partner in the investigation, Carol, will interview Teret and confront him with their evidence.
How you doing, Ray, are you OK? - Go on, Ray, after you, mate.
- Ta.
He has no idea how many victims they've found, nor how many allegations he faces.
Hello, Mr Raymond Teret is answering bail this morning.
Mr Teret, you are returning on police bail, the officers obviously wish to question you further - regarding the matters you were originally arrested for.
- Yes.
- At this moment in time, we're going to authorise your detention here so they can do that.
- OK.
OK, Ray I'm just going to remind you - you've returned on bail today - - what you're under arrest for in detail.
- Mm.
You're currently under arrest on suspicion of the following - the rape, unlawful sexual intercourse and sexual assault of Cathy Landsborough in 1972 and 1973.
You're now also under arrest on suspicion of indecent assault of Helen Moorcroft in 1984, of the attempted rape and conspiracy to rape BLEEP in 1964, the indecent assault BLEEP in 1966, the rape and indecent assault of BLEEP in 1968, the rape, unlawful sexual intercourse and indecent assault of BLEEP in 1969, the rape, unlawful sexual intercourse and sexual assault of BLEEP in 1974, the rape, unlawful sexual intercourse, BLEEP in 1976.
I must tell you, you don't have to say anything, but it may harm your defence if you don't mention when questioned something you later rely on in court and anything you do say may be given in evidence.
- Do you understand what I've said to you? - I understand it, yeah.
- Do you wish to make any reply to those? - I've no idea who they are.
- OK.
- Are the tapes in the room, Sarge? - They should be.
- Right, OK.
There are now 16 women claiming that Ray Teret sexually abused them.
CAROL: 'To be told you're under arrest for a further 11 offences, 'making it 16 victims in total, 'I would imagine he's suffering a little bit of shock at the moment,' because he certainly didn't anticipate that coming.
He's made a significant comment - "I don't know who they are" - and we'll put that to the test.
It's a matter for him whether he says he doesn't know them, he can't recall them or is being evasive by deliberate means So all we can do is put the facts to him.
I'll just see if you want something to eat in about half an hour.
- That's kind of you.
- OK.
- Thank you.
The whole case now hinges on Rod and Carol's interview with Teret.
Get it right, and the Crown Prosecution Service will charge him.
Get it wrong, and he could be released.
They have 24 hours to get through all of the allegations.
We wanted him to talk, we wanted him to give as much information as he could.
So the decision was made that for each victim, we would give as much detail in a precise way, so that would give Teret and his legal representative time to discuss the strength of the case.
DOOR CREAKS - Come and have a chat with your solicitor.
- Will do.
We'll take it from there.
The interview begins with what's known as "disclosure".
Teret will be told what he's being accused of, but he won't be told what evidence there is against him.
Thank you.
- There you go.
- Thanks very much.
BUTTONS CLICK During the course of this disclosure, I'm going to talk about victims.
These victims have all contacted the police independently and are unaware the others have come forward.
The first victim of the disclosure, at the time was called Cathy Landsborough.
In relation to her, Teret has been arrested on suspicion of rape and sexual assault.
The circumstances are as follows - Cathy first met Teret when she went into the record shop on Marsland Road.
She states that she was 12 years of age at the time.
The first time she went to the flat above the record shop, he told her not to tell anybody and to come alone.
During one of her interviews, Cathy drew a plan of the flat .
.
and stated that on one of the walls there was graffiti consisting of pictures, names and telephone numbers.
The next set of disclosure that we're going to give you is in relation to three victims.
- Where are you going now? - INDISTINCT VOICES The first disclosure takes two hours.
Teret says nothing.
When he sat down, he said, "Oh, I'm really finding it hard not to talk.
"I just want to say it's all a load of rubbish.
" He's going to have to give details of how he knows this person and justify why he's in the company of an under-16-year-old, which is difficult for him to do, bearing in mind that he's got 16 allegations against him.
So if he's struggling over the disclosure side of it, he's going to struggle tremendously when he gets to the challenge phase - .
.
and his body language, I think, will be very telling.
- Yeah.
In the last two years, Greater Manchester Police, like other forces, has seen an explosion in the reporting of sexual offences.
A Serious Sexual Offences Unit is its response.
A team of specially trained detectives only working in sex crime.
This was about the police being a bit wiser to specific crime types.
We've had murder teams for ages, armed robbery teams for ages, but without focusing on this area and realising that this is far more specialised than anything else.
Murder's not that specialist.
General purpose detectives can do murder all day long.
They're not best equipped to do rape.
The force is now dealing with nearly 1,200 rapes a year.
- Mark, I'm just going to do your fingerprints.
- OK.
Almost one in five are committed by juveniles.
Just go straight to the end there.
Do you want to take a seat there for me? This job coming in He was 17 at the time of the offence.
He's now 18.
It's come about because we've got a 12-year-old victim that's gone to a sexual health clinic as a result of having sex with a male.
Obviously, because of her age, it's then come out, we had to speak to parents and then it's been reported to the police.
Regardless of whether somebody consents or not, at the age of 12, you can't legally consent to having sex, so it becomes statutory rape anyway.
DOOR CREAKS So I am now going to authorise your detention at this police station, so that you can be interviewed and for other offences to be investigated, so it's necessary to secure and preserve evidence.
Do you understand that? You do? Would you like to have someone informed that you're here? - Er, they already know.
- They already know.
- So you don't need anybody else informing you are here? - No.
- OK.
- Just put your hands out to the side I think in this day and age, we've progressed to a point where sexual behaviour is .
.
it's accelerated.
No parent can be looking over the shoulder of their child every single day.
I think that now, with all of the technology that we've got, it creates a situation where children can become incredibly vulnerable.
The reason for your arrest has been so that you can come into the police station, because of the nature of the offence, be questioned on tape, - which is what we're doing now - Yes.
.
.
and it's your opportunity to give your version of events, - your side of the story.
- OK.
I want you to tell me - .
.
about - BLEEP.
How have you got in touch with her? Umcalled her.
BBMwe were talking and speaking.
And then, er, she sent me photos over the phone and, er she didn't look her age, she didn't talk her age, she was talking in a sexual way towards me.
And then, er, we met, we had sex and then after it, she went home and then about a week later or something, she told me her age.
I was absolutely stunned, I didn't know, I had no clue, Ideleted heroff BBM and not spoken to her since.
- Did shelook 16? - Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I didn't unun.
.
understand - thatthat she was that age.
- OK.
I feel like I'mabout to be sick.
OK, Mark, I've discussed this case with the officer.
You are now going to be bailed from the police station for further enquiries to take place.
You're going to be coming back here on the 14th and we, hopefully, will have a decision whether any charges are to be brought or not on that day.
Well, we've seized his laptop and we've seized his mobile phone.
What we're going to do is we're going to send them off to see if there's any evidence on that to back up what he actually says.
INDISTINCT VOICES The next phase of Ray Teret's interview is about to begin.
It will be led by Carol, who is a specially trained interviewer, known as a Tier 5.
It is absolutely like a game of poker.
When we talk to him about, "Where did you live at that address?" we know, the police know, actually, "I've got evidence to show you there," but we don't tell him that.
So we ask him, "Where did you live in the '60s?" and he continues to avoid answering the question.
We know the answer, but don't reveal it.
And it is that ability to sit opposite somebody, as close as I am to you, and not reveal, and don't get that twitch in your eye, don't reveal that you actually know it, because that piece of information is going to be exposed right at the very end, when we present him with the evidence that we have got.
So it is about being able to sit and converse and not go, "A-ha!" you know, don't let it show.
Are you happy you can do that interview now - without having to pick up paper? - Yeah.
- Right, OK.
I just want you to give him that overall impression that you know what you're talking about and that it's all in your head.
You're able to look at him, eyeball him, cos this is what he needs now.
He needs to get put under some pressure.
- So when you ask him those questions, I want you to look at him - OK.
.
.
as opposed to looking at your interview plan.
At the end, we get to a challenge phase.
So I absolutely want, in the challenge phase Pause before, because he's now thinking, "What's he going to ask me?" All right, deliver it with meaning, definitely, a lot of that eye contact that you were just doing then.
When you have finished your question, look at him.
He's going to say, "No comment," and I want you to look at him and count to ten in your head because he might want to fill that silence He's somebody wants to talk, he might have that need to just say something.
- OK.
- All right.
And then move on to your next one and we'll deliver it like that.
And knowing that you're building up and building up and building up till we get to the big ones where we have got independent evidence that he is having sex - with young children.
- Yes.
Yeah? And again, really specifically, when you finish your last one, a long, long look at him.
Put that close to you, so you can use it.
I don't want you to get flustered.
Don't have it in your hand because you are fidgeting.
MUSICAL HEART BEA - Says ready for interview.
- OK.
HE BREATHES DEEPLY DRAMATIC MUSIC The interview is going to reveal the testimony of one of the first women to come forward .
.
Cathy.
I was about 12 and I went round to Teret's shop And when he got this music shop, it's just round the corner.
SHE SOBS I can't remember what the deal was - there's some records or something if I bought a friend round.
He had me doing sex while she was there, like, you know, this is what you do.
Then, when he'd finished, I just went home.
I just felt so embarrassed.
OK, Ray, just to ensure that you know who we're talking about She goes on to state What have you got to say to that? What did you think about, looking at him? He definitely could feel the pressure, and then when he couldn't eyeball you, he looked away and looked at me, and then he couldn't eyeball me and he would look down.
He was definitely under a lot of pressure there.
And he really feigns this big surprise.
It's getting bigger and bigger.
He's going to throw himself off the back of his chair.
It's exactly that.
And his "no comment" gets louder the bigger the challenge.
He's panicking a little bit now, I think.
There are still another 15 victims for the detectives to get through.
Teret refuses to speak during the interviews, but gives the detectives written responses to the allegations.
"I've had no involvement in taking a complaint from a girl "regarding the alleged behaviour of Jimmy Savile.
"The scenario regarding this did not take place.
" What was his reaction during that? I couldn't see because you, numpty, sat right in front of me! Sorry.
I could hear it.
I was trying to look.
Do you want the loo, Ray? Go and have a wee.
- Do you know what I'm saying? - Yeah, go on.
Let's get this interview out the way first.
This is for the third interview.
Another prepared statement.
He's admitted being at the disco.
He's admitted having a minivan.
But denied the offence.
So, hiding a lie between two truths.
Still in consultation.
These are averaging 55 minutes per consultation.
Rod and Carol have only managed to get through six of the 16 victims.
They need to send Teret to court to ask if they can hold him for another 24 hours.
In the hope that we get the warrant, what is the intention for this evening? - That's it.
- Not going to continue.
- No.
The solicitor's requested that it be the last interview of the night, cos his head is mashed.
- Good luck.
- OK.
Can you bring food tomorrow? I'm not feeding you again tomorrow.
Pot Noodle.
I've brought that for you.
I've brought that Pot Noodle for you.
I've brought milk, coffee and tea bags of which no-one has touched.
Have you not got a chicken and mushroom one? They've taken Ray Teret to the magistrates court to apply for a warrant of further detention so that he can remain in custody while we interview him further.
So, I'm waiting to find out whether that's been successful, which I strongly suspect it will be, so that myself and DC Carter can work out plan of action for tomorrow, what time to come on duty, so we can plan and prep ready for tomorrow's day of interviewing.
The court grants the team an extension.
Teret can be held another day.
Carol is leaving the building.
It'll be interesting what tomorrow brings.
I bet he doesn't sleep very well tonight.
He'll be a worried man.
- See you all in the morning.
- Thanks for today.
See you later.
PHONE RINGS Police emergency.
Hi! I need the police! INDISTINCT SHOUTING Hello! SHOUTING - Hello! - Please, help me! - Where are you? I'm at Junction 17 INDISTINC Junction 17, where? I'm on the Junction 17 bridge, near the Vauxhall garage.
INDISTINCT SHOUTING Hello! Hello! SCREAMING PHONE LINE GOES DEAD Hello! MAN: A 20-year-old woman from Manchester has been violently dragged into a subway and sexually assaulted.
The incident happened near the M62 flyover last night.
Greater Manchester Police have released CCTV footage of a man they believe is the main suspect in the case.
See him in the back? That's him.
He's physically assaulted her, and then sexually assaulted her before being disturbed by a member of the public.
She's put up a good fight cos she's rang 999 during the offence, and the offender snatched the phone off her.
During the attack, she's managed to grab hold of the offender, the bottom and top gum, she's managed to pull at his mouth anyway.
So we're hoping, fingers crossed, there's been some transfer of skin cells or saliva from his mouth to her fingernails.
So we've had to cut her fingernails off and we've sent them off now for forensic examination, and that's been done this morning to see whether or not there's anything of any value on them.
And if so, to compare it then to the database to see if it matches anybody.
He grabbed her about halfway up this pathway, by the front of her hair.
And then he's dragged her back into this subway.
And that's where he's telling her to lie down.
- There? - Yeah.
But if you look at that, a bus going past, someone on a bus would see it.
I think he's made a decision about what he was going to do, and he was going to do it.
Whatever happened, he was going to do He was going to commit some sexual offence because he'd already made his mind up.
And you think to yourself, "I'd never let that happen to me.
" "I'd fight, I'd bite, I'd punch, I'd kick.
" But there's so many cases where people do all those things and then all of a sudden they realise they're not going to get the better of this person and they they just allow it to happen because they think it's either that or they're going to be killed.
The investigation team receives a call from a member of the public naming a suspect.
The man is arrested and detectives search his home.
- Can I just put my phone in your pocket? - Smell.
The lad was arrested.
He's being interviewed, he's denied the offence.
So we still need a bit more work with him.
Going to get his evidential DNA swab from him so that can be taken over to the lab.
But we've just had some contact from the lab to say that they've swabbed the nails and we've been told that we've got four partial DNA profiles.
So, fingers crossed, hopefully we should have a name this afternoon, which may take us forward.
There's nothing untoward.
No.
- What were there? - Just porn magazines that are open on one bed.
INDISTINC - Legal anyway, aren't they? - Yeah.
- There's nothing.
- Is there not? - No.
- Right.
All the detectives can do is wait for the DNA results.
PHONE RINGS Yeah.
Well, I think I'll be sending TAU for him.
The DNA is not from the man they've arrested.
Cheers, mate.
Come out of prison, released on bail.
He's on the sex offenders register.
But it's led them to a new suspect.
Assault police.
Assault police.
- Rape.
- Bloody hell.
Culminated.
Rape of female.
Charged.
Indecent assault, female.
Charged.
Three rapes, one indecent assault.
PHONE RINGS Martin Ashurst.
Trevor, spot on, mate.
Bye.
Previous offending for rape and sexual assaults.
Not been out of prison long.
He got ten years for indecent assault on a female under 14.
And that's it.
I'll have a look what happened to the rape.
We're going to make an arrest in relation to attempt rape in the subway at Prestwich.
I'm wondering if you can see if there's a dog handler available who can assist, just in case this chap sees the van en route and manages to get out the back door.
The team draft in the Tactical Aid Unit, the TAU, to help make the arrest.
The chap we're looking at arresting is a registered sex offender.
He's got pretty much all the warnings you'd expect - violence, weapons.
Inside the address is a large dog.
Only some intel like he keeps a claw hammer on his coffee table.
The TAU carrier is going to be the lead vehicle.
Dog handler is going to come and do a containment there.
And from there we're going to deploy on foot.
There's going to be two officers covering the black, the rest are going to cover the white, red and the green on all sides there.
Open, you fucker.
KNOCKING BANGING No signs of life inside.
There's two cats.
There's light on.
You can't see anybody inside.
There's no signs of anyone in there.
- At the minute there's no power to enter.
- Right.
Gutted.
Let's wait and see what happens first.
A very nice lady.
Said he's definitely staying at his dad's when she spoke to him yesterday.
Said, "Oh, I'm staying at me dad's cos I'm caring for him.
" And the dog's there.
It's got to be worth a go again, isn't it? We just done some checks on the address.
It looks as though it's just Dad who lives there.
The son visits.
Let's get it done, mate.
Oh, fuckin' hell.
Fuckin' freezin'.
Hello! It's the police! Can you come down and speak to us, please? What's your name? Just come here.
Step outside.
You're under arrest on suspicion of attempt rape.
All right? You don't have to say anything, but it may harm your defence if you do not mention, when questioned, something which you later rely on in court.
- He's struggling.
Calm yourself down, lad.
- I'm not struggling, the officer's doing it on purpose.
Anything you do say may be given in evidence.
- Can I get me shoes and me socks? - We'll sort them out in a bit.
Yeah, regarding .
.
2610.
We've attended.
We've arrested a male adult.
Details to follow.
Please, stop hurting me.
Stop tensing up, then.
I'm not tensing up.
Get down.
Can I have me jumper, please? Do you want to get up? You're going to go into interview now.
- OK.
- OK.
Thank you.
- How are you, Ray? - Good morning, sir.
- How are you? Horrible.
How are you? - Is it your birthday today? - Yes.
Doesn't seem proper to say happy birthday, but happy birthday anyway.
- Thank you.
Very kind of you.
- Come on.
Rod and Carol have the allegations of the remaining ten victims to put to Ray Teret today.
But they have evidence of other possible offences.
A search of Teret's house has led to a DVD being seized.
An expert in identifying and grading indecent images is called in.
I'm going to say there are ten movie files - sorry, 19 movie files.
On that is a 40-second duration, clear-quality image and sound of a very young child, I believe she's six years of age from the enquiries I've made, and she's having adult .
.
intercourse with an adult male.
I've confirmed that the child in the movie clip has been the victim of sexual abuse in America.
And she was victim between three and six years of age, but she was made safe over ten years ago.
- Oh.
- She's safe and well.
- Yeah.
I'm going to say, "Where did you get that clip from? "Have you bought it? Have you downloaded it? "Have you engaged with anybody online or offline "to obtain that clip?" What I'm concerned is that anybody who's got material of that nature that, you knowmay still pose a risk to children, and we need to be looking at them.
So if you know who that is and where you've got it from, you must tell me.
1-4-5-6-3-4-1.
He's requesting that the doctor be called for him.
He's feeling fatigued and was beginning to feel shaky.
What medical condition do you have, Mr Teret? Um I don't really have any medical - You don't have any medical conditions? - No.
You say you're feeling fatigued? Have you had some sleep? Not very much.
Not last night.
What we'll do now is we'll sit you down in your cell and we'll give you a meal and I'll get the nurse to come out and check you over.
But rest assured that no matter what happens, the process will carry on regardless, as I'm sure your solicitor will expect from you.
- Do you understand that? - Yeah.
- Thank you.
See you later.
If we maintain this pace that we've got, we're going to need all day tomorrow.
Whilst I wouldn't anticipate another 24 hours being a problem, you never can tell with the court.
Let's do as much as we possibly can in the time we've got.
It's not us that's slowing it down.
As Carol said, the interviews are 15, 20 minutes.
Yeah, absolutely.
If we continue like we're doing, we're not going to make it in time.
No, but then what we've got to consider is, where are we at the time we would say we'd want to go back to court? And if we don't get it, what have we got left in which to bring him back - and finish off what we've got? - Yeah.
There have been times when I've seen people that I've dealt with - sex offenders - out in the public, but they're going to be there.
There's over 2,500 sex offenders within GMP, so at some point you're bound to bump into one of them.
And how do you react? You don't.
There's times when you're looking, you think, "What are they up to?" Butyou've just got to go about your daily business, haven't you? Have you got a middle name, Mark? Mark Cox, the 18-year-old accused of statutory rape, following sex with a 12-year-old, is back at the station to answer bail.
What's your occupation? Student.
Student at where? STUTTERING: Bury College.
- Bury College? - Yeah.
He claims he didn't know the girl was 12 when they had sex.
And as soon as he did, he stopped contact and deleted her from his mobile phone.
To test that story, his phone has been forensically examined.
He admitted the last time he had sex with her, but he thought she was 15.
- He said he thought she was older.
- Yeah.
Then he said that she's let him know she was 12 and he stated that he's wiped her off his phone, intending not to have any further contact.
And that's plain and simply not the case because, through BBM Messenger, he's been trying to contact her on more than numerous occasions, all the way up to April.
And that's after he knows she's a 12-year-old kid.
That's after he knows.
Even if you went off his story, it's still after, isn't it? It's still after.
He must have known it was coming.
Well, he did give the two wrong passwords for the phone.
- He's probably hoping that the phone would get wiped.
- Yeah.
When you were arrested, you had a mobile phone, which was a BlackBerry.
That phone was seized off you and was then taken to our examination unit.
And you said that you wiped her off your phone and that you were aware at that time that she was 12 years old.
Can you explain to me why it's shown that you did try and contact her after November? Tried to contact her on BBM on numerous occasions.
Can you explain that to me why? Right.
Mark, before we continue, what I'm going to do is further arrest you on the suspicion of possession of indecent images.
He's actually had multiple indecent images he possessed on his phone.
All different girls.
You could see evidence that he was seeking out age-specific females which were underage on BlackBerry Messenger.
I'm very interested in this girl, Mark, because this girl looks quite young.
What can you tell me about this girl? This girl looks quite young.
I've got your Mark here.
He wants a chat.
Is that OK? All right.
Thanks.
Hello.
Yeah, I'm all right.
They might be keeping me here.
STUTTERING I don't know.
VOICE BREAKING: I really do not want to stay here tonight.
She wants to speak to you.
The officers have just gone to CPS for a decision on a charge.
If you just wait for a call, and I can't promise you when it's going to be.
Yeah? Well, the circumstances of it are, she's obviously a 12-year-old girl.
She's been befriended by him on BBM.
He's actually admitted to having sex with her on interview.
Andhe's basically gone on to say that he thought she was older.
There is absolutely nothing on him.
There's nothing on PNC, nothing on the local, other than what we're referring to in relation to what's happened with his victim.
We've got a charging decision.
Do you want to come out? You're going to be charged.
Yeah.
It doesn't matter.
- Just listen to the sergeant.
- Mark.
You're charged between the 12/10/2012 and 12/11/2012 at Bury in the county of Greater Manchester.
Intentionally penetrated the vagina of a girl under the age of 13.
Namely 12 years.
- Do you have anything to reply to that? - No.
You're charged between the 1/1/2013 and 30/05/2013.
Had in your possession indecent photographs, namely of a child, contrary to section 1601, 2a and 3 of the Criminal Justice Act 1988.
- Do you have anything to reply to that? - No.
How you feeling? Like shit.
PHONE RINGS I've got your Mark here.
He wants to have a word with you.
But I've just got to advise you before you speak to him that he's charged with numerous offences.
I've remanded him at this point and putting him in before the court in the morning.
Hello.
I'm sorry.
OK.
From his reaction, he doesn't really think he's done anything wrong.
He's not committed any offences before, but he could be looking at serving his sentence for years.
It has a huge impact on his victims, an offence of rape.
And you know, the sentence reflects that, doesn't it? Currently lying on the floor.
- Seriously? - Seriously.
I thought, "Has he fainted?" But I looked in and the solicitor went - OK.
Ray, you all right? - Yes.
- Are you having a quick nap, power nap? - Power nap.
HE CLEARS THROA All right.
OK.
Throughout the last day, the team stays in contact with the Crown Prosecution Service, who will ultimately decide if Teret is charged.
I think, realistically, we're looking at a cut-off time at our end of nine o'clock.
All right.
OK.
Right.
No problem.
Well, do that.
Text that to me and then I'll give you a bell as soon as I can.
It's been three long days and I'm sure his head will be all flying all over the place at the moment.
But time's a-pressing now, so .
.
we'll get in, get this last one done.
The interview enters its final stage - the challenge phase.
The challenge phase is a big reveal about how much evidence we really do have.
It becomes very uncomfortable for somebody who's either lied or said "no comment".
Cos suddenly they're just presented now with the real evidence.
This isn't something she said 50 years ago, this is what we, the police, are saying we know.
It's a really hard interview to get through.
The Adam's apple goes, the blinking starts, the blood pressure goes up, the heart rate goes up.
You can see it all in the body language.
And the more questions you have, the more pressure you heap on them.
They just can't wait for that interview to be over.
First I want to ask you about the flat.
You said you never took girls to that flat? You deny knowledge of Cathy? Cathy describes to the police, "A wall with graffiti consisting of pictures, names, telephone numbers.
" We've used professional decorators to remove the wallpaper to reveal a wall containing over 40 names, telephone numbers and hand-drawn pictures on the wall.
Explain that.
You've been asked about your knowledge of the wall.
You've made no comment.
The wall contains numerous writings of the name "Ray".
There's even a hand-drawn picture of a face with your name saying, "You're good-looking.
" Explain that.
To date the wall, on image number 81, "Cathy was here," with the date, 27/09/1975.
What have you got to say about that? What's your knowledge of that wall? Is that a wall that you encourage girls to put their telephone numbers on so that you can contact girls? Is that wall all about sexual activity involving you? Can you explain how it is that the victim is able to describe a wall that's been scribbled on with names and with pictures? Can you explain how she's able to do that if she's never been to the flat? - RAY: - No comment.
Three days of interviewing are over.
The whole case is now in the hands of the Crown Prosecution Service, who will decide whether Ray Teret is charged with the offences.
You know, with all these historic sexual abuse enquires that have been going on, you hear this comment time and time again - "It was a different time then.
" It was a different time then, but raping school girls was still raping school girls.
Yes, I will do.
OK.
Lovely.
Thank you very much.
All right.
See you later.
Bye-bye.
OK.
Authority to charge.
All right.
How many offences? 32 charges.
It's worth no sleep.
We doing a full team turnout? - I think we should.
We're here now, aren't we? - Yeah.
Mr Teret, the officers and DC Carter in particular have liaised with the CPS throughout this investigation.
They made a decision to charge you with a number of offences.
OK? It's going to be quite a lengthy process.
We've got a room next door which will afford you a little more comfort and more privacy.
- Down there.
- Take a seat for me.
The law says that all we have to tell you in basic terms is what you've been charged with.
It's 30-odd charges, OK? And after each charge, you'll be asked if you want to make any reply, OK? - Do you understand what I'm saying to you? - Yeah.
OK.
Ray, you have to listen to what I've got to say.
You are charged with the following offences.
You don't have to say anything, but it may harm your defence if you do not mention now something which you later rely on in court.
And anything you do say may be given in evidence.
Between the 05/03/72 and the 04/03/75, at Manchester, raped Cathy Landsborough, a girl under 16, contrary to section 11, and schedule 2 of the Sexual Offences Act 1956.
No.
Between the 14/06/1964 under 13/06/1965, at Manchester, in the county of Greater Manchester, attempted to rape BLEEP a girl under the age of 16.
- Do you wish to make a reply to that charge? - No.
Between the 11/05/68 and the 10/05/69, at Manchester, raped BLEEP a girl under 16 years of age, contrary to section 11 and schedule 2 of the Sexual Offences Act 1956.
Between the 14/06/74, the 13/06/75, at Manchester, rape BLEEP a girl under 16 years of age, contrary to section 11 and schedule 2 of Sexual Offences Act 1956.
Between 01/01/68 and 31/12/68, at Manchester, raped a girl under 16 years WOMAN: Ray Teret, the former flatmate and driver of Jimmy Savile has appeared in court in Manchester to face 32 charges of sexually abusing teenage girls.
It's the longest time I've ever waited for a verdict, and because there's so many victims, the longer we wait, the more anxious everybody's getting, including me.
WOMAN: I feel rage towards him.
I hate what he's doing.
I do.
I hate what he's doing.
You're investigating crimes now that carry a life sentence.
Murders are easy compared with this.
We live in an age defined by one type of crime.
'A man's been charged following a rape in Manchester city centre' 'Police have begun a formal criminal investigation 'into the Jimmy Savile child abuse allegations' 'Grooming, rape' These crimes carry the harshest sentences, yet have the lowest conviction rates.
LOUD BANG AGAINST DOOR Police! VOICES SHOU I can't tell you you are going to believe every victim stood in front of you and believe everything they say.
But the important thing is that victim believes that you believe them.
Few detectives want to volunteer for the fight.
You're always thinking, I've got to get this right.
You've just got to keep going, moving forward to the next case.
The word that I would use is relentless.
These are the few.
You might go into an interview thinking they've done it, and then come back out of the interview and you don't know what to think.
MUSIC: Hang On To Yourself by David Bowie Ooh, she's a tongue-twisting storm She'll come to the show tonight Praying to the light machine For the last year, Detective Rod Carter has been working on one case.
An investigation into historic sexual abuse involving a friend of Jimmy Savile - Manchester DJ Ray Teret.
'The Ray Teret Show just keeps on boogying along.
'Where would you rather be? 'That's a good question.
' Morning.
Okey doke.
Thank you.
Have you got a pass to get in here? It did work, last time I was here.
Right.
I first heard Ray Teret's name when it became clear that an investigation was taking place.
SHE SIGHS And this was the one who the media had nicknamed Savile's chauffeur.
I'd never heard of him prior to that.
I did a bit of research, looking into who he was.
He was almost like a mini Savile.
One of the victims had said that if Savile changed his hair colour, then the following week Teret would have the same.
Ray Teret was originally arrested following a number of allegations.
One of the first victims to come forward, Cathy, claimed he raped her when she was 12.
After being questioned, Teret was released on bail.
The detectives continued their investigation, now known as Operation Canute.
On either this side or this side is where we think it's going to be.
It led them to Teret's old flat, where they uncovered evidence which had lain hidden for 40 years.
As he took the wallpaper off, right at the top, near the ceiling, I just remember him saying, "I've got a number.
" And then all the wallpaper came down, more and more names and telephone numbers were revealed.
The names scrawled on Teret's wall revealed other victims.
Today, Rod and his partner in the investigation, Carol, will interview Teret and confront him with their evidence.
How you doing, Ray, are you OK? - Go on, Ray, after you, mate.
- Ta.
He has no idea how many victims they've found, nor how many allegations he faces.
Hello, Mr Raymond Teret is answering bail this morning.
Mr Teret, you are returning on police bail, the officers obviously wish to question you further - regarding the matters you were originally arrested for.
- Yes.
- At this moment in time, we're going to authorise your detention here so they can do that.
- OK.
OK, Ray I'm just going to remind you - you've returned on bail today - - what you're under arrest for in detail.
- Mm.
You're currently under arrest on suspicion of the following - the rape, unlawful sexual intercourse and sexual assault of Cathy Landsborough in 1972 and 1973.
You're now also under arrest on suspicion of indecent assault of Helen Moorcroft in 1984, of the attempted rape and conspiracy to rape BLEEP in 1964, the indecent assault BLEEP in 1966, the rape and indecent assault of BLEEP in 1968, the rape, unlawful sexual intercourse and indecent assault of BLEEP in 1969, the rape, unlawful sexual intercourse and sexual assault of BLEEP in 1974, the rape, unlawful sexual intercourse, BLEEP in 1976.
I must tell you, you don't have to say anything, but it may harm your defence if you don't mention when questioned something you later rely on in court and anything you do say may be given in evidence.
- Do you understand what I've said to you? - I understand it, yeah.
- Do you wish to make any reply to those? - I've no idea who they are.
- OK.
- Are the tapes in the room, Sarge? - They should be.
- Right, OK.
There are now 16 women claiming that Ray Teret sexually abused them.
CAROL: 'To be told you're under arrest for a further 11 offences, 'making it 16 victims in total, 'I would imagine he's suffering a little bit of shock at the moment,' because he certainly didn't anticipate that coming.
He's made a significant comment - "I don't know who they are" - and we'll put that to the test.
It's a matter for him whether he says he doesn't know them, he can't recall them or is being evasive by deliberate means So all we can do is put the facts to him.
I'll just see if you want something to eat in about half an hour.
- That's kind of you.
- OK.
- Thank you.
The whole case now hinges on Rod and Carol's interview with Teret.
Get it right, and the Crown Prosecution Service will charge him.
Get it wrong, and he could be released.
They have 24 hours to get through all of the allegations.
We wanted him to talk, we wanted him to give as much information as he could.
So the decision was made that for each victim, we would give as much detail in a precise way, so that would give Teret and his legal representative time to discuss the strength of the case.
DOOR CREAKS - Come and have a chat with your solicitor.
- Will do.
We'll take it from there.
The interview begins with what's known as "disclosure".
Teret will be told what he's being accused of, but he won't be told what evidence there is against him.
Thank you.
- There you go.
- Thanks very much.
BUTTONS CLICK During the course of this disclosure, I'm going to talk about victims.
These victims have all contacted the police independently and are unaware the others have come forward.
The first victim of the disclosure, at the time was called Cathy Landsborough.
In relation to her, Teret has been arrested on suspicion of rape and sexual assault.
The circumstances are as follows - Cathy first met Teret when she went into the record shop on Marsland Road.
She states that she was 12 years of age at the time.
The first time she went to the flat above the record shop, he told her not to tell anybody and to come alone.
During one of her interviews, Cathy drew a plan of the flat .
.
and stated that on one of the walls there was graffiti consisting of pictures, names and telephone numbers.
The next set of disclosure that we're going to give you is in relation to three victims.
- Where are you going now? - INDISTINCT VOICES The first disclosure takes two hours.
Teret says nothing.
When he sat down, he said, "Oh, I'm really finding it hard not to talk.
"I just want to say it's all a load of rubbish.
" He's going to have to give details of how he knows this person and justify why he's in the company of an under-16-year-old, which is difficult for him to do, bearing in mind that he's got 16 allegations against him.
So if he's struggling over the disclosure side of it, he's going to struggle tremendously when he gets to the challenge phase - .
.
and his body language, I think, will be very telling.
- Yeah.
In the last two years, Greater Manchester Police, like other forces, has seen an explosion in the reporting of sexual offences.
A Serious Sexual Offences Unit is its response.
A team of specially trained detectives only working in sex crime.
This was about the police being a bit wiser to specific crime types.
We've had murder teams for ages, armed robbery teams for ages, but without focusing on this area and realising that this is far more specialised than anything else.
Murder's not that specialist.
General purpose detectives can do murder all day long.
They're not best equipped to do rape.
The force is now dealing with nearly 1,200 rapes a year.
- Mark, I'm just going to do your fingerprints.
- OK.
Almost one in five are committed by juveniles.
Just go straight to the end there.
Do you want to take a seat there for me? This job coming in He was 17 at the time of the offence.
He's now 18.
It's come about because we've got a 12-year-old victim that's gone to a sexual health clinic as a result of having sex with a male.
Obviously, because of her age, it's then come out, we had to speak to parents and then it's been reported to the police.
Regardless of whether somebody consents or not, at the age of 12, you can't legally consent to having sex, so it becomes statutory rape anyway.
DOOR CREAKS So I am now going to authorise your detention at this police station, so that you can be interviewed and for other offences to be investigated, so it's necessary to secure and preserve evidence.
Do you understand that? You do? Would you like to have someone informed that you're here? - Er, they already know.
- They already know.
- So you don't need anybody else informing you are here? - No.
- OK.
- Just put your hands out to the side I think in this day and age, we've progressed to a point where sexual behaviour is .
.
it's accelerated.
No parent can be looking over the shoulder of their child every single day.
I think that now, with all of the technology that we've got, it creates a situation where children can become incredibly vulnerable.
The reason for your arrest has been so that you can come into the police station, because of the nature of the offence, be questioned on tape, - which is what we're doing now - Yes.
.
.
and it's your opportunity to give your version of events, - your side of the story.
- OK.
I want you to tell me - .
.
about - BLEEP.
How have you got in touch with her? Umcalled her.
BBMwe were talking and speaking.
And then, er, she sent me photos over the phone and, er she didn't look her age, she didn't talk her age, she was talking in a sexual way towards me.
And then, er, we met, we had sex and then after it, she went home and then about a week later or something, she told me her age.
I was absolutely stunned, I didn't know, I had no clue, Ideleted heroff BBM and not spoken to her since.
- Did shelook 16? - Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I didn't unun.
.
understand - thatthat she was that age.
- OK.
I feel like I'mabout to be sick.
OK, Mark, I've discussed this case with the officer.
You are now going to be bailed from the police station for further enquiries to take place.
You're going to be coming back here on the 14th and we, hopefully, will have a decision whether any charges are to be brought or not on that day.
Well, we've seized his laptop and we've seized his mobile phone.
What we're going to do is we're going to send them off to see if there's any evidence on that to back up what he actually says.
INDISTINCT VOICES The next phase of Ray Teret's interview is about to begin.
It will be led by Carol, who is a specially trained interviewer, known as a Tier 5.
It is absolutely like a game of poker.
When we talk to him about, "Where did you live at that address?" we know, the police know, actually, "I've got evidence to show you there," but we don't tell him that.
So we ask him, "Where did you live in the '60s?" and he continues to avoid answering the question.
We know the answer, but don't reveal it.
And it is that ability to sit opposite somebody, as close as I am to you, and not reveal, and don't get that twitch in your eye, don't reveal that you actually know it, because that piece of information is going to be exposed right at the very end, when we present him with the evidence that we have got.
So it is about being able to sit and converse and not go, "A-ha!" you know, don't let it show.
Are you happy you can do that interview now - without having to pick up paper? - Yeah.
- Right, OK.
I just want you to give him that overall impression that you know what you're talking about and that it's all in your head.
You're able to look at him, eyeball him, cos this is what he needs now.
He needs to get put under some pressure.
- So when you ask him those questions, I want you to look at him - OK.
.
.
as opposed to looking at your interview plan.
At the end, we get to a challenge phase.
So I absolutely want, in the challenge phase Pause before, because he's now thinking, "What's he going to ask me?" All right, deliver it with meaning, definitely, a lot of that eye contact that you were just doing then.
When you have finished your question, look at him.
He's going to say, "No comment," and I want you to look at him and count to ten in your head because he might want to fill that silence He's somebody wants to talk, he might have that need to just say something.
- OK.
- All right.
And then move on to your next one and we'll deliver it like that.
And knowing that you're building up and building up and building up till we get to the big ones where we have got independent evidence that he is having sex - with young children.
- Yes.
Yeah? And again, really specifically, when you finish your last one, a long, long look at him.
Put that close to you, so you can use it.
I don't want you to get flustered.
Don't have it in your hand because you are fidgeting.
MUSICAL HEART BEA - Says ready for interview.
- OK.
HE BREATHES DEEPLY DRAMATIC MUSIC The interview is going to reveal the testimony of one of the first women to come forward .
.
Cathy.
I was about 12 and I went round to Teret's shop And when he got this music shop, it's just round the corner.
SHE SOBS I can't remember what the deal was - there's some records or something if I bought a friend round.
He had me doing sex while she was there, like, you know, this is what you do.
Then, when he'd finished, I just went home.
I just felt so embarrassed.
OK, Ray, just to ensure that you know who we're talking about She goes on to state What have you got to say to that? What did you think about, looking at him? He definitely could feel the pressure, and then when he couldn't eyeball you, he looked away and looked at me, and then he couldn't eyeball me and he would look down.
He was definitely under a lot of pressure there.
And he really feigns this big surprise.
It's getting bigger and bigger.
He's going to throw himself off the back of his chair.
It's exactly that.
And his "no comment" gets louder the bigger the challenge.
He's panicking a little bit now, I think.
There are still another 15 victims for the detectives to get through.
Teret refuses to speak during the interviews, but gives the detectives written responses to the allegations.
"I've had no involvement in taking a complaint from a girl "regarding the alleged behaviour of Jimmy Savile.
"The scenario regarding this did not take place.
" What was his reaction during that? I couldn't see because you, numpty, sat right in front of me! Sorry.
I could hear it.
I was trying to look.
Do you want the loo, Ray? Go and have a wee.
- Do you know what I'm saying? - Yeah, go on.
Let's get this interview out the way first.
This is for the third interview.
Another prepared statement.
He's admitted being at the disco.
He's admitted having a minivan.
But denied the offence.
So, hiding a lie between two truths.
Still in consultation.
These are averaging 55 minutes per consultation.
Rod and Carol have only managed to get through six of the 16 victims.
They need to send Teret to court to ask if they can hold him for another 24 hours.
In the hope that we get the warrant, what is the intention for this evening? - That's it.
- Not going to continue.
- No.
The solicitor's requested that it be the last interview of the night, cos his head is mashed.
- Good luck.
- OK.
Can you bring food tomorrow? I'm not feeding you again tomorrow.
Pot Noodle.
I've brought that for you.
I've brought that Pot Noodle for you.
I've brought milk, coffee and tea bags of which no-one has touched.
Have you not got a chicken and mushroom one? They've taken Ray Teret to the magistrates court to apply for a warrant of further detention so that he can remain in custody while we interview him further.
So, I'm waiting to find out whether that's been successful, which I strongly suspect it will be, so that myself and DC Carter can work out plan of action for tomorrow, what time to come on duty, so we can plan and prep ready for tomorrow's day of interviewing.
The court grants the team an extension.
Teret can be held another day.
Carol is leaving the building.
It'll be interesting what tomorrow brings.
I bet he doesn't sleep very well tonight.
He'll be a worried man.
- See you all in the morning.
- Thanks for today.
See you later.
PHONE RINGS Police emergency.
Hi! I need the police! INDISTINCT SHOUTING Hello! SHOUTING - Hello! - Please, help me! - Where are you? I'm at Junction 17 INDISTINC Junction 17, where? I'm on the Junction 17 bridge, near the Vauxhall garage.
INDISTINCT SHOUTING Hello! Hello! SCREAMING PHONE LINE GOES DEAD Hello! MAN: A 20-year-old woman from Manchester has been violently dragged into a subway and sexually assaulted.
The incident happened near the M62 flyover last night.
Greater Manchester Police have released CCTV footage of a man they believe is the main suspect in the case.
See him in the back? That's him.
He's physically assaulted her, and then sexually assaulted her before being disturbed by a member of the public.
She's put up a good fight cos she's rang 999 during the offence, and the offender snatched the phone off her.
During the attack, she's managed to grab hold of the offender, the bottom and top gum, she's managed to pull at his mouth anyway.
So we're hoping, fingers crossed, there's been some transfer of skin cells or saliva from his mouth to her fingernails.
So we've had to cut her fingernails off and we've sent them off now for forensic examination, and that's been done this morning to see whether or not there's anything of any value on them.
And if so, to compare it then to the database to see if it matches anybody.
He grabbed her about halfway up this pathway, by the front of her hair.
And then he's dragged her back into this subway.
And that's where he's telling her to lie down.
- There? - Yeah.
But if you look at that, a bus going past, someone on a bus would see it.
I think he's made a decision about what he was going to do, and he was going to do it.
Whatever happened, he was going to do He was going to commit some sexual offence because he'd already made his mind up.
And you think to yourself, "I'd never let that happen to me.
" "I'd fight, I'd bite, I'd punch, I'd kick.
" But there's so many cases where people do all those things and then all of a sudden they realise they're not going to get the better of this person and they they just allow it to happen because they think it's either that or they're going to be killed.
The investigation team receives a call from a member of the public naming a suspect.
The man is arrested and detectives search his home.
- Can I just put my phone in your pocket? - Smell.
The lad was arrested.
He's being interviewed, he's denied the offence.
So we still need a bit more work with him.
Going to get his evidential DNA swab from him so that can be taken over to the lab.
But we've just had some contact from the lab to say that they've swabbed the nails and we've been told that we've got four partial DNA profiles.
So, fingers crossed, hopefully we should have a name this afternoon, which may take us forward.
There's nothing untoward.
No.
- What were there? - Just porn magazines that are open on one bed.
INDISTINC - Legal anyway, aren't they? - Yeah.
- There's nothing.
- Is there not? - No.
- Right.
All the detectives can do is wait for the DNA results.
PHONE RINGS Yeah.
Well, I think I'll be sending TAU for him.
The DNA is not from the man they've arrested.
Cheers, mate.
Come out of prison, released on bail.
He's on the sex offenders register.
But it's led them to a new suspect.
Assault police.
Assault police.
- Rape.
- Bloody hell.
Culminated.
Rape of female.
Charged.
Indecent assault, female.
Charged.
Three rapes, one indecent assault.
PHONE RINGS Martin Ashurst.
Trevor, spot on, mate.
Bye.
Previous offending for rape and sexual assaults.
Not been out of prison long.
He got ten years for indecent assault on a female under 14.
And that's it.
I'll have a look what happened to the rape.
We're going to make an arrest in relation to attempt rape in the subway at Prestwich.
I'm wondering if you can see if there's a dog handler available who can assist, just in case this chap sees the van en route and manages to get out the back door.
The team draft in the Tactical Aid Unit, the TAU, to help make the arrest.
The chap we're looking at arresting is a registered sex offender.
He's got pretty much all the warnings you'd expect - violence, weapons.
Inside the address is a large dog.
Only some intel like he keeps a claw hammer on his coffee table.
The TAU carrier is going to be the lead vehicle.
Dog handler is going to come and do a containment there.
And from there we're going to deploy on foot.
There's going to be two officers covering the black, the rest are going to cover the white, red and the green on all sides there.
Open, you fucker.
KNOCKING BANGING No signs of life inside.
There's two cats.
There's light on.
You can't see anybody inside.
There's no signs of anyone in there.
- At the minute there's no power to enter.
- Right.
Gutted.
Let's wait and see what happens first.
A very nice lady.
Said he's definitely staying at his dad's when she spoke to him yesterday.
Said, "Oh, I'm staying at me dad's cos I'm caring for him.
" And the dog's there.
It's got to be worth a go again, isn't it? We just done some checks on the address.
It looks as though it's just Dad who lives there.
The son visits.
Let's get it done, mate.
Oh, fuckin' hell.
Fuckin' freezin'.
Hello! It's the police! Can you come down and speak to us, please? What's your name? Just come here.
Step outside.
You're under arrest on suspicion of attempt rape.
All right? You don't have to say anything, but it may harm your defence if you do not mention, when questioned, something which you later rely on in court.
- He's struggling.
Calm yourself down, lad.
- I'm not struggling, the officer's doing it on purpose.
Anything you do say may be given in evidence.
- Can I get me shoes and me socks? - We'll sort them out in a bit.
Yeah, regarding .
.
2610.
We've attended.
We've arrested a male adult.
Details to follow.
Please, stop hurting me.
Stop tensing up, then.
I'm not tensing up.
Get down.
Can I have me jumper, please? Do you want to get up? You're going to go into interview now.
- OK.
- OK.
Thank you.
- How are you, Ray? - Good morning, sir.
- How are you? Horrible.
How are you? - Is it your birthday today? - Yes.
Doesn't seem proper to say happy birthday, but happy birthday anyway.
- Thank you.
Very kind of you.
- Come on.
Rod and Carol have the allegations of the remaining ten victims to put to Ray Teret today.
But they have evidence of other possible offences.
A search of Teret's house has led to a DVD being seized.
An expert in identifying and grading indecent images is called in.
I'm going to say there are ten movie files - sorry, 19 movie files.
On that is a 40-second duration, clear-quality image and sound of a very young child, I believe she's six years of age from the enquiries I've made, and she's having adult .
.
intercourse with an adult male.
I've confirmed that the child in the movie clip has been the victim of sexual abuse in America.
And she was victim between three and six years of age, but she was made safe over ten years ago.
- Oh.
- She's safe and well.
- Yeah.
I'm going to say, "Where did you get that clip from? "Have you bought it? Have you downloaded it? "Have you engaged with anybody online or offline "to obtain that clip?" What I'm concerned is that anybody who's got material of that nature that, you knowmay still pose a risk to children, and we need to be looking at them.
So if you know who that is and where you've got it from, you must tell me.
1-4-5-6-3-4-1.
He's requesting that the doctor be called for him.
He's feeling fatigued and was beginning to feel shaky.
What medical condition do you have, Mr Teret? Um I don't really have any medical - You don't have any medical conditions? - No.
You say you're feeling fatigued? Have you had some sleep? Not very much.
Not last night.
What we'll do now is we'll sit you down in your cell and we'll give you a meal and I'll get the nurse to come out and check you over.
But rest assured that no matter what happens, the process will carry on regardless, as I'm sure your solicitor will expect from you.
- Do you understand that? - Yeah.
- Thank you.
See you later.
If we maintain this pace that we've got, we're going to need all day tomorrow.
Whilst I wouldn't anticipate another 24 hours being a problem, you never can tell with the court.
Let's do as much as we possibly can in the time we've got.
It's not us that's slowing it down.
As Carol said, the interviews are 15, 20 minutes.
Yeah, absolutely.
If we continue like we're doing, we're not going to make it in time.
No, but then what we've got to consider is, where are we at the time we would say we'd want to go back to court? And if we don't get it, what have we got left in which to bring him back - and finish off what we've got? - Yeah.
There have been times when I've seen people that I've dealt with - sex offenders - out in the public, but they're going to be there.
There's over 2,500 sex offenders within GMP, so at some point you're bound to bump into one of them.
And how do you react? You don't.
There's times when you're looking, you think, "What are they up to?" Butyou've just got to go about your daily business, haven't you? Have you got a middle name, Mark? Mark Cox, the 18-year-old accused of statutory rape, following sex with a 12-year-old, is back at the station to answer bail.
What's your occupation? Student.
Student at where? STUTTERING: Bury College.
- Bury College? - Yeah.
He claims he didn't know the girl was 12 when they had sex.
And as soon as he did, he stopped contact and deleted her from his mobile phone.
To test that story, his phone has been forensically examined.
He admitted the last time he had sex with her, but he thought she was 15.
- He said he thought she was older.
- Yeah.
Then he said that she's let him know she was 12 and he stated that he's wiped her off his phone, intending not to have any further contact.
And that's plain and simply not the case because, through BBM Messenger, he's been trying to contact her on more than numerous occasions, all the way up to April.
And that's after he knows she's a 12-year-old kid.
That's after he knows.
Even if you went off his story, it's still after, isn't it? It's still after.
He must have known it was coming.
Well, he did give the two wrong passwords for the phone.
- He's probably hoping that the phone would get wiped.
- Yeah.
When you were arrested, you had a mobile phone, which was a BlackBerry.
That phone was seized off you and was then taken to our examination unit.
And you said that you wiped her off your phone and that you were aware at that time that she was 12 years old.
Can you explain to me why it's shown that you did try and contact her after November? Tried to contact her on BBM on numerous occasions.
Can you explain that to me why? Right.
Mark, before we continue, what I'm going to do is further arrest you on the suspicion of possession of indecent images.
He's actually had multiple indecent images he possessed on his phone.
All different girls.
You could see evidence that he was seeking out age-specific females which were underage on BlackBerry Messenger.
I'm very interested in this girl, Mark, because this girl looks quite young.
What can you tell me about this girl? This girl looks quite young.
I've got your Mark here.
He wants a chat.
Is that OK? All right.
Thanks.
Hello.
Yeah, I'm all right.
They might be keeping me here.
STUTTERING I don't know.
VOICE BREAKING: I really do not want to stay here tonight.
She wants to speak to you.
The officers have just gone to CPS for a decision on a charge.
If you just wait for a call, and I can't promise you when it's going to be.
Yeah? Well, the circumstances of it are, she's obviously a 12-year-old girl.
She's been befriended by him on BBM.
He's actually admitted to having sex with her on interview.
Andhe's basically gone on to say that he thought she was older.
There is absolutely nothing on him.
There's nothing on PNC, nothing on the local, other than what we're referring to in relation to what's happened with his victim.
We've got a charging decision.
Do you want to come out? You're going to be charged.
Yeah.
It doesn't matter.
- Just listen to the sergeant.
- Mark.
You're charged between the 12/10/2012 and 12/11/2012 at Bury in the county of Greater Manchester.
Intentionally penetrated the vagina of a girl under the age of 13.
Namely 12 years.
- Do you have anything to reply to that? - No.
You're charged between the 1/1/2013 and 30/05/2013.
Had in your possession indecent photographs, namely of a child, contrary to section 1601, 2a and 3 of the Criminal Justice Act 1988.
- Do you have anything to reply to that? - No.
How you feeling? Like shit.
PHONE RINGS I've got your Mark here.
He wants to have a word with you.
But I've just got to advise you before you speak to him that he's charged with numerous offences.
I've remanded him at this point and putting him in before the court in the morning.
Hello.
I'm sorry.
OK.
From his reaction, he doesn't really think he's done anything wrong.
He's not committed any offences before, but he could be looking at serving his sentence for years.
It has a huge impact on his victims, an offence of rape.
And you know, the sentence reflects that, doesn't it? Currently lying on the floor.
- Seriously? - Seriously.
I thought, "Has he fainted?" But I looked in and the solicitor went - OK.
Ray, you all right? - Yes.
- Are you having a quick nap, power nap? - Power nap.
HE CLEARS THROA All right.
OK.
Throughout the last day, the team stays in contact with the Crown Prosecution Service, who will ultimately decide if Teret is charged.
I think, realistically, we're looking at a cut-off time at our end of nine o'clock.
All right.
OK.
Right.
No problem.
Well, do that.
Text that to me and then I'll give you a bell as soon as I can.
It's been three long days and I'm sure his head will be all flying all over the place at the moment.
But time's a-pressing now, so .
.
we'll get in, get this last one done.
The interview enters its final stage - the challenge phase.
The challenge phase is a big reveal about how much evidence we really do have.
It becomes very uncomfortable for somebody who's either lied or said "no comment".
Cos suddenly they're just presented now with the real evidence.
This isn't something she said 50 years ago, this is what we, the police, are saying we know.
It's a really hard interview to get through.
The Adam's apple goes, the blinking starts, the blood pressure goes up, the heart rate goes up.
You can see it all in the body language.
And the more questions you have, the more pressure you heap on them.
They just can't wait for that interview to be over.
First I want to ask you about the flat.
You said you never took girls to that flat? You deny knowledge of Cathy? Cathy describes to the police, "A wall with graffiti consisting of pictures, names, telephone numbers.
" We've used professional decorators to remove the wallpaper to reveal a wall containing over 40 names, telephone numbers and hand-drawn pictures on the wall.
Explain that.
You've been asked about your knowledge of the wall.
You've made no comment.
The wall contains numerous writings of the name "Ray".
There's even a hand-drawn picture of a face with your name saying, "You're good-looking.
" Explain that.
To date the wall, on image number 81, "Cathy was here," with the date, 27/09/1975.
What have you got to say about that? What's your knowledge of that wall? Is that a wall that you encourage girls to put their telephone numbers on so that you can contact girls? Is that wall all about sexual activity involving you? Can you explain how it is that the victim is able to describe a wall that's been scribbled on with names and with pictures? Can you explain how she's able to do that if she's never been to the flat? - RAY: - No comment.
Three days of interviewing are over.
The whole case is now in the hands of the Crown Prosecution Service, who will decide whether Ray Teret is charged with the offences.
You know, with all these historic sexual abuse enquires that have been going on, you hear this comment time and time again - "It was a different time then.
" It was a different time then, but raping school girls was still raping school girls.
Yes, I will do.
OK.
Lovely.
Thank you very much.
All right.
See you later.
Bye-bye.
OK.
Authority to charge.
All right.
How many offences? 32 charges.
It's worth no sleep.
We doing a full team turnout? - I think we should.
We're here now, aren't we? - Yeah.
Mr Teret, the officers and DC Carter in particular have liaised with the CPS throughout this investigation.
They made a decision to charge you with a number of offences.
OK? It's going to be quite a lengthy process.
We've got a room next door which will afford you a little more comfort and more privacy.
- Down there.
- Take a seat for me.
The law says that all we have to tell you in basic terms is what you've been charged with.
It's 30-odd charges, OK? And after each charge, you'll be asked if you want to make any reply, OK? - Do you understand what I'm saying to you? - Yeah.
OK.
Ray, you have to listen to what I've got to say.
You are charged with the following offences.
You don't have to say anything, but it may harm your defence if you do not mention now something which you later rely on in court.
And anything you do say may be given in evidence.
Between the 05/03/72 and the 04/03/75, at Manchester, raped Cathy Landsborough, a girl under 16, contrary to section 11, and schedule 2 of the Sexual Offences Act 1956.
No.
Between the 14/06/1964 under 13/06/1965, at Manchester, in the county of Greater Manchester, attempted to rape BLEEP a girl under the age of 16.
- Do you wish to make a reply to that charge? - No.
Between the 11/05/68 and the 10/05/69, at Manchester, raped BLEEP a girl under 16 years of age, contrary to section 11 and schedule 2 of the Sexual Offences Act 1956.
Between the 14/06/74, the 13/06/75, at Manchester, rape BLEEP a girl under 16 years of age, contrary to section 11 and schedule 2 of Sexual Offences Act 1956.
Between 01/01/68 and 31/12/68, at Manchester, raped a girl under 16 years WOMAN: Ray Teret, the former flatmate and driver of Jimmy Savile has appeared in court in Manchester to face 32 charges of sexually abusing teenage girls.
It's the longest time I've ever waited for a verdict, and because there's so many victims, the longer we wait, the more anxious everybody's getting, including me.
WOMAN: I feel rage towards him.
I hate what he's doing.
I do.
I hate what he's doing.