Leah Remini: Scientology and the Aftermath (2016) s01e03 Episode Script
The Bridge
1 Subs from explosiveskull Here's what the Church has to say about their disconnection policy.
"The estrangement of these families was caused by far deeper issues that have nothing to do with their religion.
These individuals have chosen to use the Church of Scientology as a scapegoat by focusing on church policy regarding members severing communications.
" Mary: Anybody thinking about joining the Church of Scientology, then buyer beware.
People can easily get into it and find the good in it right away.
But I say "buyer beware" because, if it runs the course that it ran with me, and you get your family in, you better make sure you get them on board with getting out before it all hits the fan for you.
If I could have a do-over, I would start communicating to my family well ahead of when it all came crashing down.
'Cause once that happens, the Church will pounce on your friends and your family to such a degree, they won't be able to see straight.
You won't have a chance to get to them.
I am the writer of the textbooks of Scientology.
The aim and goal is to put man in a-a mental condition, where he him can solve his own problems.
It offers you a sense of purpose in life.
Not only are you fixing yourself, but you're also helping mankind.
Without any Scientology organization, things are not gonna change on this planet.
Woman: After years of slowly questioning Scientology Man: Leah Remini in her very public break with Scientology I didn't want to find out that what I had done my whole life was a lie.
[Doorbell rings.]
[Applause.]
[Cheers and applause.]
Fight for your family.
Fight for your daughters, your sons.
Get them out of this thing.
You're not gonna continue to lie to people and abuse people and take their money and their lives.
If I can stop one, then I'm gonna do it.
[Knocks.]
- Hey, doll.
- How's it going? - Come on in.
- How are you, Leah? Good.
The reason why I wanted you to come over is, well, for a few reasons.
One is, like, starting this project, I feel like what I haven't been able to do was, even to you, is explain what it is.
You know, what is Scientology, what does it mean to be a Scientologist.
And also, I wanted to show you some of the books and how things are done.
It's a hard thing to explain, - and it's a hard thing to understand, too.
- Yeah.
- There's so many different levels to it.
- Correct.
It's I-It's enough to make your brain hurt.
Right, but I don't want you [bleep.]
up the show, or A&E to [bleep.]
up the show, so I'm gonna do my best to overwhelm you with information.
- [Laughs.]
You'll be able to - Right, put it all together.
put it together so that people can understand.
Okay, well, let's try to learn about Scientology.
All right, so the first thing I want to show you is, you know, all my books.
Scientologists are required to buy every book ever written by L.
Ron Hubbard.
You know, most people throw all their Scientology books away, but that's thousands and thousands of dollars.
That's number one.
But number two, um, I wanted it as a reference point for moments like this.
By the way, I always walk around my house - in full hair and makeup and Louboutins.
- Okay.
I don't want the American public to think I'm being disingenuous.
- Right.
- This is the way I wake up.
Full hair and makeup.
So, this is not the whole library, but just so you understand that every Scientologist is required to read every page and listen to every lecture that L.
Ron Hubbard ever wrote.
- So, these are the packages - Right.
and they're like $4,000.
Then we're being told that, you know, libraries are requesting L.
Ron Hubbard's works.
Then you buy packages of these things.
- To donate to libraries? - To donate to libraries.
Okay.
To get L.
Ron Hubbard's works out there, right? So, these are the basic books.
There's like 12 of them.
And so, you're required to buy the basic books and read them.
Then they go, "Hey, we found mistakes in these books.
" - So you have to buy a new set.
- Hmm.
That's gonna cost you $3,000 or $4,000.
It's basically just repackaging it, right? It's the same content.
Right, and no and no Scientologist is gonna go through "Dianetics" from 1950 to the new one and go, "Bull It's the same" And then, other than, you know, having to read all these books and and listen to all these lectures, this would be like a typical course.
Like Yeah.
What is a course in Scientology? Okay, so this would be a required course.
It's like $650.
$650.
And what do I get for $650, and what is required of me? What's required of you now? So, this is, uh, two weeks, full-time.
Full-time means 9:00 in the morning till 10:00 at night, every day, seven days a week.
What if you have a job? You work it out.
That's the thing in Scientology is that I don't think people get.
When you're in Scientology, you are doing this every day.
If you're not doing this, you're getting counseling every day, 2 1/2 hours a day minimum.
There is no other religion that I know of that requires 2 1/2 hours of your day, a quarter of a million dollars minimum, and at least 40 years of your life.
And over the course of of your Scientology career, how much did you spend? - S Total? - Yeah.
Millions.
And how much does the average parishioner pay, say, to get to the level that that you went to? Any parishioner, no matter how much money they make, are gonna spend, at the very least, a quarter of a million dollars.
Every parishioner of the Church of Scientology is paying an enormous amount of money to get better, to gain sp-spiritual awareness.
It is just what is the culture of Scientology, which is pay.
The Bridge to Total Freedom, is the series of steps that were laid out by L.
Ron Hubbard that every Scientologist must follow in order to attain the ultimate in spiritual enlightenment and in spiritual freedom.
Leah: This is what we would call The Bridge, right? In Scientology, all you are doing is doing these steps to go all the way up this Bridge as a spiritual being.
And it all begins with this down here.
You know all those courses they talk about are $35 and they're they're just not even.
- They're like throwaway courses - Right.
just to get you indoctrinated into some of the terms.
Would you say that most of the helpful information is on this initial - Yes, I would say most, yes, would be - bands.
The most practical kind of Would be life-improvement courses.
Then, even in these areas, you know, when you're talking about grade zero up to clear.
You know, I mean, there are some useful things here.
- You know, free of the past upsets.
- Right.
There's some useful one-on-one therapeutic things that are being done here.
So, by the top of this Bridge, Alex, you should be able to do with your mind.
Move things.
You're able to cure cancer in yourself.
Your cause over life.
Okay, so Grade II "Relief from the hostilities and sufferings of life.
" You both have reached Grade II? Yes.
Do you feel like you have relief from the hostilities and sufferings of life? - No.
- No, but And anybody who knows me will say that.
- "She absolutely didn't achieve that.
" - [Chuckles.]
Or, let's say, uh Here, let's say "Ability to communicate freely with anyone.
" I have not been able to do that.
"Ability to recognize the source of problems and make them vanish" You're still here.
"Relief from the hostilities and sufferings of life" - No.
- [Chuckles.]
So, in Scientology, you're trying to get up this Bridge, and it's laid out for you these steps and things you have to do.
And part of this Bridge to Total Freedom because that's what it is, it says The Bridge to Total Freedom is this thing called auditing, which you can just say is Scientologists' word for therapy.
Man: Auditing is the process of asking specifically worded questions designed to help you find and handle areas of distress.
This is done with an auditor, meaning "one who listens.
" An auditor does not offer solutions or advice.
They are trained to listen and to help you locate those experiences that need to be addressed.
Every Scientologist is taught very early on, this thing doesn't lie.
Matter of fact, in the writings of L.
Ron Hubbard, it says, "Believe the E-meter.
" Mike: Auditing can become very stressful and very draining because you're being asked that you come up with things that satisfy whatever it is that the person on the other side of that E-meter believes you need to come up with.
The difference between auditing and sec checking is, auditing, in theory, is those steps that you take toward attaining spiritual enlightenment.
Sec checking is the action the organization takes to gather information about you or what is going on.
And the questions can vary from "Have you ever had a critical thought about L.
Ron Hubbard?" to, uh, "Have you had sex with a dog?" And the theory is that the E-meter will tell, really, how bad you are.
They have security checking for kids from the age 6 to 12.
And what that does is it sets up the Church as the parent.
You may be paying someone $800 an hour to sit and interrogate you.
And I'm I'm sitting here, trying to explain to this person something that they're not believing me.
They're not They They don't believe that I'm actually telling the truth.
And if you keep doing that to someone, you get them to the point where they will basically say anything in order to put an end to it.
Each one of these steps takes a certain number of hours of auditing.
In theory, you can add up, "Okay, well, this one takes 25 hours of auditing, and this one takes 50 hours, and blah blah blah.
" And Scientology sells this to people.
And there there is a-a scale of, - if you buy more hours - It'll be less.
- you'll get a cheaper price.
- Mm.
Like, it - Package plan.
- Yes.
Package that's exactly what it is.
It just you've bought that many hours.
And once they're used up, you have to buy more.
The Church of Scientology is a business, and it's a financial burden to most people.
Once you get to Grade I, they'll say, "We messed up your Grade 0," or "A 'new' paper was found that was taken out of Grade 0, and we need to redo your Grade 0 at your cost.
" - Right? - Yeah.
So people are always going up to come back down.
- Going up to go back down.
- Hmm.
An average parishioner, to go all the way through the OT levels is hundreds of thousands of dollars.
That isn't dependent upon who you are whether you're a celebrity or whether you're a garbage man.
Leah: You have to buy books, you have to buy CDs.
You have to donate to the various social-betterment organizations of the Church of Scientology.
You also have to become a member of the International Association of Scientologists.
So, there's a membership fee on top of that.
All this adds up to hundreds of thousands of dollars uh, hundreds of thousands of dollars people don't have, but but they find it.
They will take out, uh, credit cards, loans.
They will mortgage their home.
They will take money out of a kid's college fund, your 401(k).
However you have to get the money, you do it.
[Wind blowing.]
Leah: You don't purposely drive towards the Scientology buildings, do you? - No.
- Okay.
- My son works in that building.
- Where?! Oh, he used to work in the Oak Cove, but now he works in the Fort Harrison.
That is the law firm of Wally Pope and company, who represent the Church and all their litigation.
Oh, really? Yeah.
Yeah, I originally hired them.
- Oh, did you? - [Chuckles.]
Yes.
Have you made peace with all of it? Like, all the stuff that you did? In general terms, yes.
It It still, if I come across someone an individual who has an individual story and they say, "Well, did you know that X, Y, and Z was happening?" or "This happened to me" or "That happened to me," oftentimes, I I have no personal involvement - or knowledge of what it was that happened.
- Yeah.
But still, I'm sort of, like You feel somewhat responsible.
- Yeah, exactly.
- Yeah.
I I feel like I I owe them an apology.
But interestingly, for the most part, not a single person has ever been bitter, like Yes, I understand what you're saying.
Like, towards, like, you.
No "You [bleep.]
with me, man.
- You personally " - Exactly.
- No, it's like - 'Cause that's what - "Yeah, you were part of a" - Yeah, right.
"You were part of the same thing - that I was a part of" - Yeah, exactly.
"And, you know, I understand.
" My name is Mary Kahn.
I was a Scientologist for 40 years.
And I was OT VIII, so that's as high as you can go.
[Doorbell rings.]
- Hi, Mary.
- Hello.
- How are you? - Hi, sweetheart.
[Chuckles.]
Hi, pleasure to meet you.
Hi.
- Nice to meet you, too.
- Thank you.
- Thank you for having us to your home.
- So nice.
Oh, you're welcome.
That's Sammy.
That's one I did of Sam our son that we lost.
Mary: My son Sam and I, we had a very strong spiritual connection.
It's unspoken.
Mary: He signed the wall there, and I just can't erase it.
I feel like something bad will happen if I erase it, so I left it there.
Leah: Yeah, I understand.
- I have weird, little superstitions.
- It's not weird, Mary.
- You're a mother.
- Yeah.
I mean, it's not weird.
I wouldn't erase it, either.
[Dishes clink.]
I'd like to get your story, if I may.
How did Tell me how you got into Scientology.
Well, I was living in Dallas, and I met this guy who started talking to me about Scientology, and I I liked what he had to say.
I would say I was just looking for where I belonged.
Yep.
Mary: I was getting ready to go to a pot party.
You know, this is '73, and I met this guy, and he went, you know, "Don't do that.
" He says, "It's really not good for you.
" In that era of time, that was unusual.
It's like, everybody was doing acid and Quaaludes and smoking dope, and the free sex and swinging.
And, um, I just was this conservative, shy 23-year-old going on 12.
So when he said that, it was like, "Yeah.
" Inside, it was like, "I agree.
I don't think it is good for you.
" And then he he started telling me more about Scientology.
So, you get into Scientology, and you immediately take to it.
Right.
It was great.
It helped me so much.
I hit this vein of people that don't want to do drugs.
- Leah: Right.
An ethical and moral group, yeah.
- And it's like - And it's about working hard, living a good life.
- Yeah, sure.
This These are good principles.
Nobody's gonna go, "[Bleep.]
that.
" - Right.
- You know what I mean? [Waves crashing.]
[Indistinct conversations.]
I moved to California.
I lived in a house with three other girls, and I moved up The Bridge.
I basically did the training and the auditing as I was living my life.
And then in '84 is when I started dating David at the end of '84.
David was just the right guy at the right time.
Leah: Hi, doll.
Mary: Hi.
- How are you? - Very good.
- Nice to meet you.
- Nice to meet you.
- This is David.
- Thank you for having us.
Great project you're working on, here.
Well, we hope so.
- Hey, buddy.
- Hey, Mike.
How are you? Mary: David and I decided to get married, and, um, a Scientologist friend of ours married us.
At this point, in the world of Scientology, I had done everything that I really wanted to do.
I wanted my kids to do Scientology because I liked the principle of trying to live a good, happy, clean without drugs and alcohol life.
You know, we introduced both of our kids to it, and Sammy took to it, and Michael didn't.
You had already gone up The Bridge, but then you had to redo everything at a certain point.
- Yeah.
- Yeah.
At your expense.
- Yes.
- Right.
Leah: Each course costs money, but the other thing is, they constantly invent new things.
You will get to a certain place in Scientology that maybe took you 10, 20 years to get to.
And then, all of a sudden, they say, "Yeah, that was done wrong," or they found new technology that was hidden, so "We have to go back go back down and do it.
" And so you have to and then you have to pay for that again.
So it's it's never-ending.
And what are we talking money-wise, at this point, in your Scientology career? - Well, money-wise now, from 2005 to 2010 - Mm-hmm.
- we're talking hundreds of thousands of dollars.
- Mm-hmm.
But it got really weird when The Basics came out.
Under David Miscavige, there has been a concerted effort to repackage all of the writings and materials of L.
Ron Hubbard.
- We probably spent $100,000 on books.
- Leah: Mm-hmm.
I had my garage filled with them.
It got to a point where I just felt pressured beyond belief because they would hound on me to give more money, try to get me a pl to be a plant at one of the briefings to say, "Oh, yeah, I'll give $10,000" so I can get other people to give money.
And things like that are going on non-stop.
I had a Sea Org member tell me one day - This was during The Basics - Yeah.
- when he was suffering sleepless nights.
- Yeah.
"Well, Mary, by the way, I meant to tell you, I took $1,500 off your credit card.
" That's illegal.
- It's a felony.
- Right.
I looked at him, and I went, - "Well, out here in the real world" - Yeah.
- "that's called a felony.
" - Right.
And I said, "You're paying me back today.
" And when I said, "Why did you do that?" He said, "I had no care or concern about the future consequences.
- I was just trying to solve right now.
" - His quota.
The target that he was given.
This is very oppressive, and I think it's illegal, - but any Scientologist really doesn't have a leg to stand on.
- Right.
If you were to try to, say, - take them to court for this - I don't think so.
I think, eventually, the more people s realize 'cause, Mary, you're dealing with people who don't realize that they were victims.
Right.
Scientology has brainwashed us all into thinking we're responsible - for the condition that we're in.
- Right.
And, you know, we should just get on with it.
- Right.
- And we do! and we do We just get on with it.
At a certain point, we have to realize, we were victims of a cult, you know, which is why we believe, you know, everything that that we're told.
Now, I'm just toeing the line because I don't want to lose my family.
The disconnection thing, it's like it's it's there hovering above you all the time.
It's like an automatic understanding of, if you buck the system, this is where it will go.
You're toeing a line because, you know, the loss of your life, your son.
Right.
Well, you got it right, 'cause it's like the loss of my life.
- Correct.
- Right.
A church that is forcing you to disconnect from children your own children your own parents, your husband, your wife, - This is a church.
- Right.
No church should force me to not be connected.
If I would have been speaking my truth, I would have said, "Go [bleep.]
yourself.
" Mary: The point of no return happened in 2009, when I was called in to finish The Bridge.
I thought it was gonna be pretty easy-peasy, like it was in '87.
And I thought it was gonna be a very uplifting, validating experience.
But, um, what happened instead - It takes over your life, this regimentation.
- Leah: Yeah.
This is a church that requires your everyday participation.
It's every day, all day, seven days a week.
I had to go immediately to the ship, which took two weeks the first time and two months the second.
Two months of, every second of it was hell.
Leah: The ship is where they deliver OT VIII.
It's highly confidential.
You have to be on a ship so you can't leave.
I did not want to go to the ship at all.
I had such a foreboding about it, but I felt like I didn't have a choice.
Mike: You are a captive audience on board a ship, so there are people that want to extract money from you, and they have you, and there's no hiding.
You feel sort of like a carcass with the vultures circling and landing and pulling off pieces, and there's nothing you can do.
There's nowhere you can go.
My beef is the pressure with trying to get money out of people.
It was relentless, and the only reason I persevered was to try to save my family.
If you want to continue in Scientology, you do what the organization tells you.
If the organization says, "You're in trouble.
We have reports about you.
We, uh, believe that you're engaged in X, Y, and Z bad stuff," then "We are going to tell you that you must get a sec check in order to prove that you are clean and that you are eligible to continue your progress up The Bridge.
" If you're being security checked, it's because they think you've done something and you're hiding something.
And so they will not let you out of that room until you give it up.
- I was under so much stress.
- Stress.
Yeah, right.
It was an indescribable amount of stress.
Yeah.
There are numerous examples of people who, in sec checks, have resorted ultimately to just making stuff up.
It's a very stressful thing to to walk down the path of, "Now I'm going to start lying just to get out of the room," when you are led to believe at the outset that Scientology is about finding the truth for yourself.
This was all like spiritual meat-grinding.
"This is grating on me so bad, I'm going to my room and crying privately.
" You know, I missed Thanksgiving, Christmas, my son's birthday, and New Year's Eve.
So I thought, "I hate it here.
I hate every second of being here.
" If I was able to say my truth, I would be saying that, but you can't.
She's a mother who stayed in Scientology so that her child wouldn't turn against her.
She stayed and subjected herself to interrogations, but she ultimately couldn't put up with it anymore, hoping that her son would see the treatment of his mother, or would open his eyes.
Leah: After you reach the top of the spiritual Bridge of Scientology, you walk off that ship and think what? I walked off the ship, and it was liberating, 'cause I walked down that gangplank, and I looked up, and I saw my auditor on the deck.
And I remember thinking, "That's the last time I'll ever see him.
I will never be back here again.
" It's easy to make fun of Scientology and to point out the unbelievability of Scientology, but when you do that, you are negating Scientologists' pain.
It was so mentally abusive and such torment that I would never subject myself to that again.
I would never hold the cans again I had that thought.
When you say, "Hold the cans," what does that mean? I mean that "I will never be put on the meter again.
" I would never be processed again.
Because, as soon as you pick up the cans, the guy on the other side is the one in control, and I was never gonna give them control of me again.
It makes me so angry to know, like, these are good people.
Like, they believe they're doing these things.
That's why they're giving up their children.
That's why they're giving up their money.
That's why they're not going on vacations and living a normal, nice life, because they believe you.
So, to me, it's like, it it's "fraud" is not the right word.
It's like, you you stole these people's faith.
The thing in Scientology is that any information you receive is from your church.
You are not allowed to be critical of the organization.
Mary: By this point, I knew that things were wrong in the Church.
- Having that thought was dangerous.
- Leah: Right.
Somehow, that thought percolated up and came out of my mouth.
And it was honestly like, "Oh, my God.
" It was my mind was free.
- Right.
- And because of that, there was something about, "Wow, I'm gonna find out, what is going on?" I just felt freer, I know, at that point.
That was like a-a mind-altering event, almost.
And I don't know what I read first or when I read it, but I think I read "Counterfeit Dreams," um, which is a book about abuse in the Church that connected a lot of dots for me over time.
Then I head about Anderson Cooper's show.
We've been reporting on allegations of physical abuse inside the Church of Scientology.
Once I found out about the physical assaults, - that was it.
- Right.
It was the point of no return for me.
And at that point, you were done? - I didn't have the words - Right, but but - but I was done.
- Yeah.
- Then I tried to tell David - Mm-hmm.
"David Miscavige is beating people up.
" - 'Cause I'm trying to wake him up.
- Right.
When you're in the Church of Scientology, there are certain rules you do not break.
One of those rules are not to be critical of the Church.
The word "critical" means "enemy.
" If they labeled someone an enemy, there is no discussion.
You either disconnect from your family member, or you will lose everything you have ever known.
Mary took the risk of telling her husband that she was having doubts about Scientology.
The next time he went into the Church, which was probably the next day, he revealed that his wife was having doubts.
Then what happens is, the Church starts to go to work on Mary by pulling her in for interrogations at her expense, start threatening her with her family disconnecting from her and her husband disconnecting from her, and it almost worked.
There was a brief time when I'm going, you know, "Am I gonna divorce my wife or not?" 'Cause it's like, not so much 'cause I want to be in Scientology, but I 'cause I don't want to disconnect from my son.
And there was a brief time when I'm thinking, "Okay, I'll do it.
" This friend of mine, Ben, who I've known since I was in junior high school so they sent him to talk to me to say, you know, "Listen, you got to divorce your wife and just you know, you got to disconnect.
" And I think, "Okay.
Well, I guess, okay.
- I will.
" - Mm-hmm.
And that lasted, I don't know, you know, 24 hours, whatever.
At this point, now I'm just stringing him along and saying, "Oh, well, I'm talking to my wife about getting di We're working out a settlement.
" And, you know, it's total B.
S.
- Right.
- I didn't know this.
This is fascinating.
And I basically said to him, "So So, you're basically telling me that if I don't divorce my wife, I'll get declared?" And that's basically the way you handle people, - and he said, "Yeah.
" - Yeah.
Right.
- I said, "Okay.
" - And that would mean disconnecting from your your youngest son? - Yes.
- Right.
And then what happens? - May of 2013, I got called in - Mm-hmm.
because there was a K.
R.
, a knowledge report.
I said, "Okay, I'll come in.
I'll talk to you about anything.
" But you're not gonna be on the meter? - "But I am not gonna hold the cans.
" - Right.
And he was going, "No, you will hold the cans.
" And I went, "No, I won't.
" And he said, "Oh, yes, you will.
" I mean, it was so It re still upsets me so badly, uh, because it was so oppressive, and I know that they own me.
[Sobs.]
[Voice breaking.]
And this was the part I'm trying to get away from.
I They've been owning me for all these years that I've been trying to just toe the line and do what they want me to do.
And now he's just demanding that I hold the cans.
In my mind, I-I knew this was it, and I [Sobs.]
And [Sobs.]
And I thought, "I'm gonna There's a good chance that I'm gonna lose my family.
" All of it's right there.
And I And I just looked at him, and I went, "No, I won't.
" And I said, "In fact, I'm leaving.
" It was slow motion.
And I hoped that the door was not locked.
If that door was locked, they would not have let me out.
And it turned, and it was like, "Oh, God.
Thank God.
" And I walked out.
I was so scared.
I'm thinking, "Keep your head down and get out.
Just keep your head down, get out.
" And they are relentless.
I tried to get out the back door, and they followed me.
He barred the door.
I was trying to push the door open, and he wouldn't let me get that door unlatched.
And I'm thinking, "I'm gonna sit on the floor and I'm gonna scream.
" I was done.
Mary: He wouldn't let me get that door unlatched.
And I'm thinking, "I'm gonna sit on the floor and I'm gonna scream.
" I was so [bleep.]
up in my head, just, "Get out, get out, get out.
" Uh, and he looked at me and he went, "You stop yelling.
" - I didn't even realize I was yelling.
- Yeah.
That's how I mean, you just don't - you lose everything.
- You're right.
Right, You're, like, out of your body.
- Right.
- Yeah.
And I looked at him and I went, "Then let me go.
" And they still wouldn't let me out that door.
And I thought to myself, "Maybe just walk out the front door, - and if there's public" - Yeah.
"They will let me go, 'cause they don't want - to create a scene in public.
" - Right.
So I turned around and went that way, - and there was public in, but they followed me - Right.
all the way up to the street, talking to me the whole way.
Once I knew I would make it to the street, they would leave me alone, 'cause they hate bad P.
R.
Right.
So, that was it.
and it was so mentally abusive and such torment that I would never subject myself to that again.
So, you get in your car, you go home? I go home, and I tell David, and David's like, "You better think of your family.
" It's one of the first things he said to me.
Leah: Yeah.
[Sobbing.]
It's like, that's all I've been thinking about for the last five years, was my family.
And the reason I want to cry about it is because Sammy has no idea.
He sat there and said to me, "Mom, I would do anything to save this family.
" That's all I was trying to do, and I went through hell to try to save that family and went through such mental brutality, as well as all the money we spent to try to hang on to my family.
- [Sobbing.]
- Oh.
[Breathing shakily.]
- Let's just stop.
- Oh, my God.
Let's stop for a minute.
- [Sobs.]
- Can we stop for a second? I really I can't.
Mary, I'm gonna try to do something about it.
Mary, and you're a fighter.
I know.
That's what this is about.
This is, like It's so hard to get through.
[All sniffling.]
Does anybody else need tissues? [Chuckles.]
[Sobbing.]
I'm so sorry this is happening to you guys.
Well, but if you film it, somebody else will see it and maybe avoid it.
This Something has to be done.
It It I'm not gonna change the Church policy, but I'm certainly going to let the world know what the Church is doing to families.
I just wish something legally could be done, you know? It's just like, why is it okay for somebody to use this policy of disconnection? I mean, I'm fine with declaring evil people evil, but they took it to another point where they're declaring good people evil, and as soon as they do that, you lose your family and your way of life and everything you know.
The average guy out there would might say, "Why'd you join the church, you know, when you knew what the rules were? When you knew that you could be disconnected from? Because that's part of the tenets.
" Well, I never felt like I would ever be declared an evil person.
[Birds chirping.]
My arms are open, and they always will be.
I think Sammy knows that unless I am just absolutely wrong about the way he felt about me.
I know that this broke his heart, to have to disconnect.
You're a great family.
You really are.
- Oh, thank you.
- You really have strength.
- I mean, you're lucky to have each other - Mike: Absolutely.
and I really hope that we make some change here.
You know, I hope that we we we update these stories.
Right.
The years raising those kids were the happiest for me.
It was the happiest time of my life, and they were great kids, and we were a great family.
Leah: Unfortunately, Mary Kahn is not unique.
She has had her family destroyed because she stood up and said, "No.
" It's like, you ju I just it's the pain of it, it's just so right there, you know? It's It's I don't know.
This is not something fun.
This is not a fun project.
Mike: This is exhausting.
You're exactly right.
You know, it's like, if I'm not if I'm not actually doing it, I'm thinking about it, trying to find other stories or to find somebody.
Maybe somebody's willing to go to the police, to the FBI.
Maybe somebody has something.
It's like, there's all these sacrifices.
You know, Mike's away from his family, you guys are putting your asses on the line.
And it's like, you at least want the payoff like, something but we're getting nothing.
It doesn't mean that it's never gonna happen because it hasn't happened yet.
Yeah.
And I understand that it can be discouraging, but that's kind of what battles against abuse like this are always like.
It doesn't change overnight.
This has given me a new fight, and it gives me purpose, and so I don't know if I'm ever going to be totally okay with sitting around, seeing things go on in the world and people going, "I hope something's being done about that [bleep.]
That's [bleep.]
up.
" I don't know if I'm that girl.
The 24th of January, L.
Ron Hubbard discarded the body he had used in this lifetime for 74 years.
- [Applause.]
- Mike: David Miscavige likes to call himself the Pope of Scientology.
He is the epitome of what a coward is.
He saw the people who would stand in his way, and he just removed them from power.
More oppressive.
He is the undisputed dictator of Scientology.
It is disconnecting families.
It is hurting people.
My name is Ron Miscavige, and my son is David Miscavige.
"The estrangement of these families was caused by far deeper issues that have nothing to do with their religion.
These individuals have chosen to use the Church of Scientology as a scapegoat by focusing on church policy regarding members severing communications.
" Mary: Anybody thinking about joining the Church of Scientology, then buyer beware.
People can easily get into it and find the good in it right away.
But I say "buyer beware" because, if it runs the course that it ran with me, and you get your family in, you better make sure you get them on board with getting out before it all hits the fan for you.
If I could have a do-over, I would start communicating to my family well ahead of when it all came crashing down.
'Cause once that happens, the Church will pounce on your friends and your family to such a degree, they won't be able to see straight.
You won't have a chance to get to them.
I am the writer of the textbooks of Scientology.
The aim and goal is to put man in a-a mental condition, where he him can solve his own problems.
It offers you a sense of purpose in life.
Not only are you fixing yourself, but you're also helping mankind.
Without any Scientology organization, things are not gonna change on this planet.
Woman: After years of slowly questioning Scientology Man: Leah Remini in her very public break with Scientology I didn't want to find out that what I had done my whole life was a lie.
[Doorbell rings.]
[Applause.]
[Cheers and applause.]
Fight for your family.
Fight for your daughters, your sons.
Get them out of this thing.
You're not gonna continue to lie to people and abuse people and take their money and their lives.
If I can stop one, then I'm gonna do it.
[Knocks.]
- Hey, doll.
- How's it going? - Come on in.
- How are you, Leah? Good.
The reason why I wanted you to come over is, well, for a few reasons.
One is, like, starting this project, I feel like what I haven't been able to do was, even to you, is explain what it is.
You know, what is Scientology, what does it mean to be a Scientologist.
And also, I wanted to show you some of the books and how things are done.
It's a hard thing to explain, - and it's a hard thing to understand, too.
- Yeah.
- There's so many different levels to it.
- Correct.
It's I-It's enough to make your brain hurt.
Right, but I don't want you [bleep.]
up the show, or A&E to [bleep.]
up the show, so I'm gonna do my best to overwhelm you with information.
- [Laughs.]
You'll be able to - Right, put it all together.
put it together so that people can understand.
Okay, well, let's try to learn about Scientology.
All right, so the first thing I want to show you is, you know, all my books.
Scientologists are required to buy every book ever written by L.
Ron Hubbard.
You know, most people throw all their Scientology books away, but that's thousands and thousands of dollars.
That's number one.
But number two, um, I wanted it as a reference point for moments like this.
By the way, I always walk around my house - in full hair and makeup and Louboutins.
- Okay.
I don't want the American public to think I'm being disingenuous.
- Right.
- This is the way I wake up.
Full hair and makeup.
So, this is not the whole library, but just so you understand that every Scientologist is required to read every page and listen to every lecture that L.
Ron Hubbard ever wrote.
- So, these are the packages - Right.
and they're like $4,000.
Then we're being told that, you know, libraries are requesting L.
Ron Hubbard's works.
Then you buy packages of these things.
- To donate to libraries? - To donate to libraries.
Okay.
To get L.
Ron Hubbard's works out there, right? So, these are the basic books.
There's like 12 of them.
And so, you're required to buy the basic books and read them.
Then they go, "Hey, we found mistakes in these books.
" - So you have to buy a new set.
- Hmm.
That's gonna cost you $3,000 or $4,000.
It's basically just repackaging it, right? It's the same content.
Right, and no and no Scientologist is gonna go through "Dianetics" from 1950 to the new one and go, "Bull It's the same" And then, other than, you know, having to read all these books and and listen to all these lectures, this would be like a typical course.
Like Yeah.
What is a course in Scientology? Okay, so this would be a required course.
It's like $650.
$650.
And what do I get for $650, and what is required of me? What's required of you now? So, this is, uh, two weeks, full-time.
Full-time means 9:00 in the morning till 10:00 at night, every day, seven days a week.
What if you have a job? You work it out.
That's the thing in Scientology is that I don't think people get.
When you're in Scientology, you are doing this every day.
If you're not doing this, you're getting counseling every day, 2 1/2 hours a day minimum.
There is no other religion that I know of that requires 2 1/2 hours of your day, a quarter of a million dollars minimum, and at least 40 years of your life.
And over the course of of your Scientology career, how much did you spend? - S Total? - Yeah.
Millions.
And how much does the average parishioner pay, say, to get to the level that that you went to? Any parishioner, no matter how much money they make, are gonna spend, at the very least, a quarter of a million dollars.
Every parishioner of the Church of Scientology is paying an enormous amount of money to get better, to gain sp-spiritual awareness.
It is just what is the culture of Scientology, which is pay.
The Bridge to Total Freedom, is the series of steps that were laid out by L.
Ron Hubbard that every Scientologist must follow in order to attain the ultimate in spiritual enlightenment and in spiritual freedom.
Leah: This is what we would call The Bridge, right? In Scientology, all you are doing is doing these steps to go all the way up this Bridge as a spiritual being.
And it all begins with this down here.
You know all those courses they talk about are $35 and they're they're just not even.
- They're like throwaway courses - Right.
just to get you indoctrinated into some of the terms.
Would you say that most of the helpful information is on this initial - Yes, I would say most, yes, would be - bands.
The most practical kind of Would be life-improvement courses.
Then, even in these areas, you know, when you're talking about grade zero up to clear.
You know, I mean, there are some useful things here.
- You know, free of the past upsets.
- Right.
There's some useful one-on-one therapeutic things that are being done here.
So, by the top of this Bridge, Alex, you should be able to do with your mind.
Move things.
You're able to cure cancer in yourself.
Your cause over life.
Okay, so Grade II "Relief from the hostilities and sufferings of life.
" You both have reached Grade II? Yes.
Do you feel like you have relief from the hostilities and sufferings of life? - No.
- No, but And anybody who knows me will say that.
- "She absolutely didn't achieve that.
" - [Chuckles.]
Or, let's say, uh Here, let's say "Ability to communicate freely with anyone.
" I have not been able to do that.
"Ability to recognize the source of problems and make them vanish" You're still here.
"Relief from the hostilities and sufferings of life" - No.
- [Chuckles.]
So, in Scientology, you're trying to get up this Bridge, and it's laid out for you these steps and things you have to do.
And part of this Bridge to Total Freedom because that's what it is, it says The Bridge to Total Freedom is this thing called auditing, which you can just say is Scientologists' word for therapy.
Man: Auditing is the process of asking specifically worded questions designed to help you find and handle areas of distress.
This is done with an auditor, meaning "one who listens.
" An auditor does not offer solutions or advice.
They are trained to listen and to help you locate those experiences that need to be addressed.
Every Scientologist is taught very early on, this thing doesn't lie.
Matter of fact, in the writings of L.
Ron Hubbard, it says, "Believe the E-meter.
" Mike: Auditing can become very stressful and very draining because you're being asked that you come up with things that satisfy whatever it is that the person on the other side of that E-meter believes you need to come up with.
The difference between auditing and sec checking is, auditing, in theory, is those steps that you take toward attaining spiritual enlightenment.
Sec checking is the action the organization takes to gather information about you or what is going on.
And the questions can vary from "Have you ever had a critical thought about L.
Ron Hubbard?" to, uh, "Have you had sex with a dog?" And the theory is that the E-meter will tell, really, how bad you are.
They have security checking for kids from the age 6 to 12.
And what that does is it sets up the Church as the parent.
You may be paying someone $800 an hour to sit and interrogate you.
And I'm I'm sitting here, trying to explain to this person something that they're not believing me.
They're not They They don't believe that I'm actually telling the truth.
And if you keep doing that to someone, you get them to the point where they will basically say anything in order to put an end to it.
Each one of these steps takes a certain number of hours of auditing.
In theory, you can add up, "Okay, well, this one takes 25 hours of auditing, and this one takes 50 hours, and blah blah blah.
" And Scientology sells this to people.
And there there is a-a scale of, - if you buy more hours - It'll be less.
- you'll get a cheaper price.
- Mm.
Like, it - Package plan.
- Yes.
Package that's exactly what it is.
It just you've bought that many hours.
And once they're used up, you have to buy more.
The Church of Scientology is a business, and it's a financial burden to most people.
Once you get to Grade I, they'll say, "We messed up your Grade 0," or "A 'new' paper was found that was taken out of Grade 0, and we need to redo your Grade 0 at your cost.
" - Right? - Yeah.
So people are always going up to come back down.
- Going up to go back down.
- Hmm.
An average parishioner, to go all the way through the OT levels is hundreds of thousands of dollars.
That isn't dependent upon who you are whether you're a celebrity or whether you're a garbage man.
Leah: You have to buy books, you have to buy CDs.
You have to donate to the various social-betterment organizations of the Church of Scientology.
You also have to become a member of the International Association of Scientologists.
So, there's a membership fee on top of that.
All this adds up to hundreds of thousands of dollars uh, hundreds of thousands of dollars people don't have, but but they find it.
They will take out, uh, credit cards, loans.
They will mortgage their home.
They will take money out of a kid's college fund, your 401(k).
However you have to get the money, you do it.
[Wind blowing.]
Leah: You don't purposely drive towards the Scientology buildings, do you? - No.
- Okay.
- My son works in that building.
- Where?! Oh, he used to work in the Oak Cove, but now he works in the Fort Harrison.
That is the law firm of Wally Pope and company, who represent the Church and all their litigation.
Oh, really? Yeah.
Yeah, I originally hired them.
- Oh, did you? - [Chuckles.]
Yes.
Have you made peace with all of it? Like, all the stuff that you did? In general terms, yes.
It It still, if I come across someone an individual who has an individual story and they say, "Well, did you know that X, Y, and Z was happening?" or "This happened to me" or "That happened to me," oftentimes, I I have no personal involvement - or knowledge of what it was that happened.
- Yeah.
But still, I'm sort of, like You feel somewhat responsible.
- Yeah, exactly.
- Yeah.
I I feel like I I owe them an apology.
But interestingly, for the most part, not a single person has ever been bitter, like Yes, I understand what you're saying.
Like, towards, like, you.
No "You [bleep.]
with me, man.
- You personally " - Exactly.
- No, it's like - 'Cause that's what - "Yeah, you were part of a" - Yeah, right.
"You were part of the same thing - that I was a part of" - Yeah, exactly.
"And, you know, I understand.
" My name is Mary Kahn.
I was a Scientologist for 40 years.
And I was OT VIII, so that's as high as you can go.
[Doorbell rings.]
- Hi, Mary.
- Hello.
- How are you? - Hi, sweetheart.
[Chuckles.]
Hi, pleasure to meet you.
Hi.
- Nice to meet you, too.
- Thank you.
- Thank you for having us to your home.
- So nice.
Oh, you're welcome.
That's Sammy.
That's one I did of Sam our son that we lost.
Mary: My son Sam and I, we had a very strong spiritual connection.
It's unspoken.
Mary: He signed the wall there, and I just can't erase it.
I feel like something bad will happen if I erase it, so I left it there.
Leah: Yeah, I understand.
- I have weird, little superstitions.
- It's not weird, Mary.
- You're a mother.
- Yeah.
I mean, it's not weird.
I wouldn't erase it, either.
[Dishes clink.]
I'd like to get your story, if I may.
How did Tell me how you got into Scientology.
Well, I was living in Dallas, and I met this guy who started talking to me about Scientology, and I I liked what he had to say.
I would say I was just looking for where I belonged.
Yep.
Mary: I was getting ready to go to a pot party.
You know, this is '73, and I met this guy, and he went, you know, "Don't do that.
" He says, "It's really not good for you.
" In that era of time, that was unusual.
It's like, everybody was doing acid and Quaaludes and smoking dope, and the free sex and swinging.
And, um, I just was this conservative, shy 23-year-old going on 12.
So when he said that, it was like, "Yeah.
" Inside, it was like, "I agree.
I don't think it is good for you.
" And then he he started telling me more about Scientology.
So, you get into Scientology, and you immediately take to it.
Right.
It was great.
It helped me so much.
I hit this vein of people that don't want to do drugs.
- Leah: Right.
An ethical and moral group, yeah.
- And it's like - And it's about working hard, living a good life.
- Yeah, sure.
This These are good principles.
Nobody's gonna go, "[Bleep.]
that.
" - Right.
- You know what I mean? [Waves crashing.]
[Indistinct conversations.]
I moved to California.
I lived in a house with three other girls, and I moved up The Bridge.
I basically did the training and the auditing as I was living my life.
And then in '84 is when I started dating David at the end of '84.
David was just the right guy at the right time.
Leah: Hi, doll.
Mary: Hi.
- How are you? - Very good.
- Nice to meet you.
- Nice to meet you.
- This is David.
- Thank you for having us.
Great project you're working on, here.
Well, we hope so.
- Hey, buddy.
- Hey, Mike.
How are you? Mary: David and I decided to get married, and, um, a Scientologist friend of ours married us.
At this point, in the world of Scientology, I had done everything that I really wanted to do.
I wanted my kids to do Scientology because I liked the principle of trying to live a good, happy, clean without drugs and alcohol life.
You know, we introduced both of our kids to it, and Sammy took to it, and Michael didn't.
You had already gone up The Bridge, but then you had to redo everything at a certain point.
- Yeah.
- Yeah.
At your expense.
- Yes.
- Right.
Leah: Each course costs money, but the other thing is, they constantly invent new things.
You will get to a certain place in Scientology that maybe took you 10, 20 years to get to.
And then, all of a sudden, they say, "Yeah, that was done wrong," or they found new technology that was hidden, so "We have to go back go back down and do it.
" And so you have to and then you have to pay for that again.
So it's it's never-ending.
And what are we talking money-wise, at this point, in your Scientology career? - Well, money-wise now, from 2005 to 2010 - Mm-hmm.
- we're talking hundreds of thousands of dollars.
- Mm-hmm.
But it got really weird when The Basics came out.
Under David Miscavige, there has been a concerted effort to repackage all of the writings and materials of L.
Ron Hubbard.
- We probably spent $100,000 on books.
- Leah: Mm-hmm.
I had my garage filled with them.
It got to a point where I just felt pressured beyond belief because they would hound on me to give more money, try to get me a pl to be a plant at one of the briefings to say, "Oh, yeah, I'll give $10,000" so I can get other people to give money.
And things like that are going on non-stop.
I had a Sea Org member tell me one day - This was during The Basics - Yeah.
- when he was suffering sleepless nights.
- Yeah.
"Well, Mary, by the way, I meant to tell you, I took $1,500 off your credit card.
" That's illegal.
- It's a felony.
- Right.
I looked at him, and I went, - "Well, out here in the real world" - Yeah.
- "that's called a felony.
" - Right.
And I said, "You're paying me back today.
" And when I said, "Why did you do that?" He said, "I had no care or concern about the future consequences.
- I was just trying to solve right now.
" - His quota.
The target that he was given.
This is very oppressive, and I think it's illegal, - but any Scientologist really doesn't have a leg to stand on.
- Right.
If you were to try to, say, - take them to court for this - I don't think so.
I think, eventually, the more people s realize 'cause, Mary, you're dealing with people who don't realize that they were victims.
Right.
Scientology has brainwashed us all into thinking we're responsible - for the condition that we're in.
- Right.
And, you know, we should just get on with it.
- Right.
- And we do! and we do We just get on with it.
At a certain point, we have to realize, we were victims of a cult, you know, which is why we believe, you know, everything that that we're told.
Now, I'm just toeing the line because I don't want to lose my family.
The disconnection thing, it's like it's it's there hovering above you all the time.
It's like an automatic understanding of, if you buck the system, this is where it will go.
You're toeing a line because, you know, the loss of your life, your son.
Right.
Well, you got it right, 'cause it's like the loss of my life.
- Correct.
- Right.
A church that is forcing you to disconnect from children your own children your own parents, your husband, your wife, - This is a church.
- Right.
No church should force me to not be connected.
If I would have been speaking my truth, I would have said, "Go [bleep.]
yourself.
" Mary: The point of no return happened in 2009, when I was called in to finish The Bridge.
I thought it was gonna be pretty easy-peasy, like it was in '87.
And I thought it was gonna be a very uplifting, validating experience.
But, um, what happened instead - It takes over your life, this regimentation.
- Leah: Yeah.
This is a church that requires your everyday participation.
It's every day, all day, seven days a week.
I had to go immediately to the ship, which took two weeks the first time and two months the second.
Two months of, every second of it was hell.
Leah: The ship is where they deliver OT VIII.
It's highly confidential.
You have to be on a ship so you can't leave.
I did not want to go to the ship at all.
I had such a foreboding about it, but I felt like I didn't have a choice.
Mike: You are a captive audience on board a ship, so there are people that want to extract money from you, and they have you, and there's no hiding.
You feel sort of like a carcass with the vultures circling and landing and pulling off pieces, and there's nothing you can do.
There's nowhere you can go.
My beef is the pressure with trying to get money out of people.
It was relentless, and the only reason I persevered was to try to save my family.
If you want to continue in Scientology, you do what the organization tells you.
If the organization says, "You're in trouble.
We have reports about you.
We, uh, believe that you're engaged in X, Y, and Z bad stuff," then "We are going to tell you that you must get a sec check in order to prove that you are clean and that you are eligible to continue your progress up The Bridge.
" If you're being security checked, it's because they think you've done something and you're hiding something.
And so they will not let you out of that room until you give it up.
- I was under so much stress.
- Stress.
Yeah, right.
It was an indescribable amount of stress.
Yeah.
There are numerous examples of people who, in sec checks, have resorted ultimately to just making stuff up.
It's a very stressful thing to to walk down the path of, "Now I'm going to start lying just to get out of the room," when you are led to believe at the outset that Scientology is about finding the truth for yourself.
This was all like spiritual meat-grinding.
"This is grating on me so bad, I'm going to my room and crying privately.
" You know, I missed Thanksgiving, Christmas, my son's birthday, and New Year's Eve.
So I thought, "I hate it here.
I hate every second of being here.
" If I was able to say my truth, I would be saying that, but you can't.
She's a mother who stayed in Scientology so that her child wouldn't turn against her.
She stayed and subjected herself to interrogations, but she ultimately couldn't put up with it anymore, hoping that her son would see the treatment of his mother, or would open his eyes.
Leah: After you reach the top of the spiritual Bridge of Scientology, you walk off that ship and think what? I walked off the ship, and it was liberating, 'cause I walked down that gangplank, and I looked up, and I saw my auditor on the deck.
And I remember thinking, "That's the last time I'll ever see him.
I will never be back here again.
" It's easy to make fun of Scientology and to point out the unbelievability of Scientology, but when you do that, you are negating Scientologists' pain.
It was so mentally abusive and such torment that I would never subject myself to that again.
I would never hold the cans again I had that thought.
When you say, "Hold the cans," what does that mean? I mean that "I will never be put on the meter again.
" I would never be processed again.
Because, as soon as you pick up the cans, the guy on the other side is the one in control, and I was never gonna give them control of me again.
It makes me so angry to know, like, these are good people.
Like, they believe they're doing these things.
That's why they're giving up their children.
That's why they're giving up their money.
That's why they're not going on vacations and living a normal, nice life, because they believe you.
So, to me, it's like, it it's "fraud" is not the right word.
It's like, you you stole these people's faith.
The thing in Scientology is that any information you receive is from your church.
You are not allowed to be critical of the organization.
Mary: By this point, I knew that things were wrong in the Church.
- Having that thought was dangerous.
- Leah: Right.
Somehow, that thought percolated up and came out of my mouth.
And it was honestly like, "Oh, my God.
" It was my mind was free.
- Right.
- And because of that, there was something about, "Wow, I'm gonna find out, what is going on?" I just felt freer, I know, at that point.
That was like a-a mind-altering event, almost.
And I don't know what I read first or when I read it, but I think I read "Counterfeit Dreams," um, which is a book about abuse in the Church that connected a lot of dots for me over time.
Then I head about Anderson Cooper's show.
We've been reporting on allegations of physical abuse inside the Church of Scientology.
Once I found out about the physical assaults, - that was it.
- Right.
It was the point of no return for me.
And at that point, you were done? - I didn't have the words - Right, but but - but I was done.
- Yeah.
- Then I tried to tell David - Mm-hmm.
"David Miscavige is beating people up.
" - 'Cause I'm trying to wake him up.
- Right.
When you're in the Church of Scientology, there are certain rules you do not break.
One of those rules are not to be critical of the Church.
The word "critical" means "enemy.
" If they labeled someone an enemy, there is no discussion.
You either disconnect from your family member, or you will lose everything you have ever known.
Mary took the risk of telling her husband that she was having doubts about Scientology.
The next time he went into the Church, which was probably the next day, he revealed that his wife was having doubts.
Then what happens is, the Church starts to go to work on Mary by pulling her in for interrogations at her expense, start threatening her with her family disconnecting from her and her husband disconnecting from her, and it almost worked.
There was a brief time when I'm going, you know, "Am I gonna divorce my wife or not?" 'Cause it's like, not so much 'cause I want to be in Scientology, but I 'cause I don't want to disconnect from my son.
And there was a brief time when I'm thinking, "Okay, I'll do it.
" This friend of mine, Ben, who I've known since I was in junior high school so they sent him to talk to me to say, you know, "Listen, you got to divorce your wife and just you know, you got to disconnect.
" And I think, "Okay.
Well, I guess, okay.
- I will.
" - Mm-hmm.
And that lasted, I don't know, you know, 24 hours, whatever.
At this point, now I'm just stringing him along and saying, "Oh, well, I'm talking to my wife about getting di We're working out a settlement.
" And, you know, it's total B.
S.
- Right.
- I didn't know this.
This is fascinating.
And I basically said to him, "So So, you're basically telling me that if I don't divorce my wife, I'll get declared?" And that's basically the way you handle people, - and he said, "Yeah.
" - Yeah.
Right.
- I said, "Okay.
" - And that would mean disconnecting from your your youngest son? - Yes.
- Right.
And then what happens? - May of 2013, I got called in - Mm-hmm.
because there was a K.
R.
, a knowledge report.
I said, "Okay, I'll come in.
I'll talk to you about anything.
" But you're not gonna be on the meter? - "But I am not gonna hold the cans.
" - Right.
And he was going, "No, you will hold the cans.
" And I went, "No, I won't.
" And he said, "Oh, yes, you will.
" I mean, it was so It re still upsets me so badly, uh, because it was so oppressive, and I know that they own me.
[Sobs.]
[Voice breaking.]
And this was the part I'm trying to get away from.
I They've been owning me for all these years that I've been trying to just toe the line and do what they want me to do.
And now he's just demanding that I hold the cans.
In my mind, I-I knew this was it, and I [Sobs.]
And [Sobs.]
And I thought, "I'm gonna There's a good chance that I'm gonna lose my family.
" All of it's right there.
And I And I just looked at him, and I went, "No, I won't.
" And I said, "In fact, I'm leaving.
" It was slow motion.
And I hoped that the door was not locked.
If that door was locked, they would not have let me out.
And it turned, and it was like, "Oh, God.
Thank God.
" And I walked out.
I was so scared.
I'm thinking, "Keep your head down and get out.
Just keep your head down, get out.
" And they are relentless.
I tried to get out the back door, and they followed me.
He barred the door.
I was trying to push the door open, and he wouldn't let me get that door unlatched.
And I'm thinking, "I'm gonna sit on the floor and I'm gonna scream.
" I was done.
Mary: He wouldn't let me get that door unlatched.
And I'm thinking, "I'm gonna sit on the floor and I'm gonna scream.
" I was so [bleep.]
up in my head, just, "Get out, get out, get out.
" Uh, and he looked at me and he went, "You stop yelling.
" - I didn't even realize I was yelling.
- Yeah.
That's how I mean, you just don't - you lose everything.
- You're right.
Right, You're, like, out of your body.
- Right.
- Yeah.
And I looked at him and I went, "Then let me go.
" And they still wouldn't let me out that door.
And I thought to myself, "Maybe just walk out the front door, - and if there's public" - Yeah.
"They will let me go, 'cause they don't want - to create a scene in public.
" - Right.
So I turned around and went that way, - and there was public in, but they followed me - Right.
all the way up to the street, talking to me the whole way.
Once I knew I would make it to the street, they would leave me alone, 'cause they hate bad P.
R.
Right.
So, that was it.
and it was so mentally abusive and such torment that I would never subject myself to that again.
So, you get in your car, you go home? I go home, and I tell David, and David's like, "You better think of your family.
" It's one of the first things he said to me.
Leah: Yeah.
[Sobbing.]
It's like, that's all I've been thinking about for the last five years, was my family.
And the reason I want to cry about it is because Sammy has no idea.
He sat there and said to me, "Mom, I would do anything to save this family.
" That's all I was trying to do, and I went through hell to try to save that family and went through such mental brutality, as well as all the money we spent to try to hang on to my family.
- [Sobbing.]
- Oh.
[Breathing shakily.]
- Let's just stop.
- Oh, my God.
Let's stop for a minute.
- [Sobs.]
- Can we stop for a second? I really I can't.
Mary, I'm gonna try to do something about it.
Mary, and you're a fighter.
I know.
That's what this is about.
This is, like It's so hard to get through.
[All sniffling.]
Does anybody else need tissues? [Chuckles.]
[Sobbing.]
I'm so sorry this is happening to you guys.
Well, but if you film it, somebody else will see it and maybe avoid it.
This Something has to be done.
It It I'm not gonna change the Church policy, but I'm certainly going to let the world know what the Church is doing to families.
I just wish something legally could be done, you know? It's just like, why is it okay for somebody to use this policy of disconnection? I mean, I'm fine with declaring evil people evil, but they took it to another point where they're declaring good people evil, and as soon as they do that, you lose your family and your way of life and everything you know.
The average guy out there would might say, "Why'd you join the church, you know, when you knew what the rules were? When you knew that you could be disconnected from? Because that's part of the tenets.
" Well, I never felt like I would ever be declared an evil person.
[Birds chirping.]
My arms are open, and they always will be.
I think Sammy knows that unless I am just absolutely wrong about the way he felt about me.
I know that this broke his heart, to have to disconnect.
You're a great family.
You really are.
- Oh, thank you.
- You really have strength.
- I mean, you're lucky to have each other - Mike: Absolutely.
and I really hope that we make some change here.
You know, I hope that we we we update these stories.
Right.
The years raising those kids were the happiest for me.
It was the happiest time of my life, and they were great kids, and we were a great family.
Leah: Unfortunately, Mary Kahn is not unique.
She has had her family destroyed because she stood up and said, "No.
" It's like, you ju I just it's the pain of it, it's just so right there, you know? It's It's I don't know.
This is not something fun.
This is not a fun project.
Mike: This is exhausting.
You're exactly right.
You know, it's like, if I'm not if I'm not actually doing it, I'm thinking about it, trying to find other stories or to find somebody.
Maybe somebody's willing to go to the police, to the FBI.
Maybe somebody has something.
It's like, there's all these sacrifices.
You know, Mike's away from his family, you guys are putting your asses on the line.
And it's like, you at least want the payoff like, something but we're getting nothing.
It doesn't mean that it's never gonna happen because it hasn't happened yet.
Yeah.
And I understand that it can be discouraging, but that's kind of what battles against abuse like this are always like.
It doesn't change overnight.
This has given me a new fight, and it gives me purpose, and so I don't know if I'm ever going to be totally okay with sitting around, seeing things go on in the world and people going, "I hope something's being done about that [bleep.]
That's [bleep.]
up.
" I don't know if I'm that girl.
The 24th of January, L.
Ron Hubbard discarded the body he had used in this lifetime for 74 years.
- [Applause.]
- Mike: David Miscavige likes to call himself the Pope of Scientology.
He is the epitome of what a coward is.
He saw the people who would stand in his way, and he just removed them from power.
More oppressive.
He is the undisputed dictator of Scientology.
It is disconnecting families.
It is hurting people.
My name is Ron Miscavige, and my son is David Miscavige.