The Problem with Jon Stewart (2021) s01e03 Episode Script
The Problem with the Economy
[Reza] Your pen flipping is superb,
by the way.
-I've been doing it for years.
-[Reza] Yeah.
-[woman] Hey!
-[Reniqua] Wow. Impressive.
[Reza] I was watching him do it,
like, "That's impressive."
[Stewart] In the 2008 crisis,
I remember government jumps in and
bail out the mortgage derivative company.
And it's billions of dollars.
And the mortgages
that had gone underwater,
well, those people were all gonna
lose their houses.
[woman] Mm-hmm.
And the Secretary of the Treasury,
Tim Geithner,
said we couldn't bail out the homeowners
in the way that we bailed out the banks.
And I said, "Why not?"
-And he said, "Moral hazard."
-Hmm.
You would be rewarding those,
through their own fault,
their mortgages went south.
So you gave billions of dollars
to the people
whose shitty bets nearly imploded
the world economy.
How is that not "moral hazard"?
[chuckles] And I'll never forget, he said…
"We had to land the plane.
The plane was on fire"…
-That's right.
-…"and we had to land it."
In that moment, I was like,
"Oh, my God. And you're the Democrat."
[all laughing]
Oh, my God!
-[audience cheering, applauding]
-Hey! Good evening.
Good evening.
That is tremendous stamina on your part.
That was-- Had to be
a minute and a half of applause,
like, "Can we just put our hands down?"
[audience laughing]
Good evening and welcome.
As you know, our country continues
to emerge from the recent pandemic.
And then, of course, plunge back into it,
and then re-emerge, and then…
It's emotionally a lot.
During this time, we learned it was
the essential workers who kept us afloat.
Wall Street didn't build this country.
The middle class built the country.
…the people who built this country
from the ground up. The workers.
I love our blue-collar workers.
I consider myself, in a certain way,
to be a blue collar worker.
…taxi cab drivers and cops
and firefighters
and waiters and waitresses
and the men and women
with calluses on their hands…
…working man
with calluses on-- on his hands…
[both] …men and women
with calluses on their hands…
[all] …men and women
with calluses on their hands…
[all] …calluses on their hands…
…whose hands are thick with calluses.
[male narrator] It's the official truck
of callused hands and elbow grease.
[narrator 2]
Praise the workers. Praise the work.
[audience laughing]
Yes, by all means, praise the worker.
But for God's sakes,
will no one give them hand lotion?
[audience laughing]
[stammers] Their mitts are like sandpaper.
Give 'em some lotion.
We love and respect
the hardworking people of this country,
although I'm pretty sure
they don't always feel the love.
First of all, my age.
I'm going to, you know--
I need health care
for a surgery if it comes up.
I need assistance to pay my rent.
After twenty-five and a half years,
I make $8.99 an hour.
The student loans will probably delay
me ever buying a house with my fiancé.
I dropped out of college.
I had to. I couldn't afford it.
My mother couldn't afford it.
I don't get paid maternity leave.
I work seven days a week.
I can't afford to retire
because of health care.
I need childcare
like I need my next breath.
I have two degrees.
I have student loans
and bachelor's degrees
and 14 years' experience.
I should not have to come ask for food.
I'm living paycheck to paycheck.
If I live in a country that says
it's number one,
why do I feel like, you know,
I'm at the bottom of the barrel?
It turns out that hardworking Americans
aren't doing that great.
Anybody know what might help them?
…single-payer health care,
government paid childcare…
-…free college…
-…government healthy food…
…early education, child education,
universal childcare…
…guaranteed job for everyone,
with a family-sustaining wage,
adequate family and medical leave,
paid vacations and retirement security.
You guys are dead-on.
Man. That is totally unexpected.
But you all are dead-on right.
That is exactly what we need to do
in this country.
But I sensed a tone in your voice.
Why aren't we doing those things?
If that's not socialism,
I'm not sure what is.
…every socialist wish list item.
…socialist and globalist wish list…
…socialist fantasy…
Paradise for all…
Right!
So there it is.
We cannot give our hardworking,
leather-handed heroes
their basic needs because that's…
socialism.
And thus… the problem with the economy.
Now, if you've ever listened to AM radio
in your uncle's van,
you know: Socialism not good.
The moment America becomes
a socialist country
is the moment that America ceases
to be America.
The United Socialist States of America…
…job-killing, soul-crushing,
socialist agenda.
I mean, hello, Venezuela.
They wanna take your pickup truck…
They want your money,
and if you won't give it to 'em,
they'll take it.
…they wanna rebuild your home…
Socialism destroys. Socialism kills.
People really die.
-It's despair…
-…destruction…
-…it's starvation…
-…poverty…
-…squalor…
-…chaos…
Death.
…they wanna take away your hamburgers…
Death!
Despair!
The Hamburglar!
And, you know,
they're being so descriptive,
but I just wish I had
some kind of visual metaphor
for what they mean.
Takes a brave and adept hunter
to bring down a giant, stationary placard.
So we know that socialism is evil.
But if you would indulge me
for just a moment,
why is it evil again?
Is socialism a fair system?
Oh, not at all.
Because what does socialism do?
It allows the government to choose
winners and losers.
And that is one of the things that
we as conservatives fight against.
We want a level playing field.
First of all,
your blazer has magnificent buttons.
I'm quite superficial, I hope you--
So, socialism is bad
because it's the government picking
the winners and losers.
And there's nothing worse than that.
Not spiders with wings,
not grandma titty punching.
There's nothing worse.
Basically saying,
"If you're a loser, it's your fault.
And government stepping in is socialism.
Get your shit together,
and keep Uncle Sam's sweet teats
out of your dirty fucking loser mouth."
Uncle Sam wants you
to leave these bad boys alone.
[audience laughing]
There's only one--
There's only one problem with this.
And that is, government picks
winners and losers all the time.
The White House gives an early
Christmas present to Detroit's automakers,
a $17 billion loan.
The airline industry has gotten
a $50 billion lifeline.
…$23 million incentive package for Amazon.
JPMorgan Chase got $25 billion.
Chrysler got some seven billion dollars.
$700 billion of your taxpayer money
to Wall Street big banks.
The tuna company StarKist plus gets
a $62 million tax credit.
Wisconsin is giving Foxconn
three billion dollars.
The state offered more than $845 million
for Apple to build
right where I'm standing right now.
[gasping] I thought we cut that clip.
I thought-- [stammers]
I thought the Apple clip got cut.
I don't-- [giggles]
That's not-- That's-- That's--
[shouting] And the last one was very fair.
[audience laughing, applauding]
All of it is--
[applauding continues]
I'll see myself out.
[audience laughs]
So it turns out that the government is
picking winners and losers.
It's just picking corporations
to be the winners.
Man, I would imagine
that good free-market capitalists hate
this type of socialist intervention.
Let's be clear.
The auto bailout saved 1.5 million jobs.
When we figure out who to triage,
we must save Boeing.
Stabilizing the banks was essential.
We incentivized Amazon to come,
as we incentivize
every big business to come.
Ten billion is a small price to pay
for saving a company of that magnitude.
So apparently government picking winners
and losers in this case is great.
Not only does the government pick
winners and losers,
but with these bailouts,
they're apparently picking losers
and turning them into winners.
Just out of curiosity,
what would you say
if we bailed out a person?
Making being poor more comfortable
has only helped people to stay poor.
They started sending checks to people,
getting them a little bit more reliant
on government, more reliant on government.
And now they're full-blown
incentivizing laziness.
Because why work hard when
the government is gonna cut you a check?
The welfare state has incentivized women
to marry the government
and allowed men to abandon
their financial and moral responsibility.
"Women are marrying governments!"
Is that really any worse
than marrying men?
Probably not.
I mean, to be honest…
are we that much of a bargain? No.
And by the way, it is 2021…
I believe it's time
men can also marry governments.
I think that's something--
That's a woke crowd, right there.
The federal government intervenes
all the time in favor of corporations,
be it through lowering
corporate tax rates,
deregulating certain industries,
industry subsidies, bailouts…
And I assume, since a lot of that comes
from the taxpayers,
we at least get some say
in what they do with the money.
I certainly don't want the government
trying to direct companies
to put their capital in this place
or that place.
The federal government should not be
in the business
of specifying executive compensation.
I really just don't think
it's the job of the government
to decide
how companies should spend their money.
Let companies decide
how they want to spend their money.
Don't interfere with private businesses.
Let them make their decisions.
Government should have zero role
in determining, in influencing,
in mandating any type of CEO compensation.
These are private companies.
Yeah, it's interesting,
because when we bail out people,
we got nothing but say.
For instance, with food stamps,
they cannot buy diapers,
cleaning supplies, vitamins or hot food.
Hot food.
Corporations can use bailout money
to pay their already wealthy CEOs
if they feel like it.
But God forbid
a poor person finds their way
to a salad bar's heat-lamp pot roast.
"No, no, no!
Only the rich get to suckle the nectar
of premade meatball subs."
"That is the domain of the aristocracy."
When corporations fail, you pay for it.
But when they succeed, it's theirs.
They socialize their losses
and privatize their gains.
Why do we allow that?
Consider this:
Wealthy people do not stash their billions
in safe deposit boxes
loaded with $100 bills.
They don't do that,
and they don't spend it all at the mall.
They don't spend like crazy.
No, wealthy people invest.
It is investment that creates jobs
and economic growth.
See, this is the lie they tell you,
that all this money flowing
towards corporate, moneyed interests
is actually for your benefit.
That government intervention
for corporations is our free market,
but government intervention for workers
is socialism.
And that's the reason
for the socialism scaremongering.
It's a false choice to make you believe
that this country has but two options:
a socialist, authoritarian… hamburgerless,
Venezuelan nightmare,
or accept the status quo,
where large corporations benefit
from government help,
then use some of those profits
to lobby the same government
for more government help.
They want you to believe
that in a free market,
while your wages stay low, someday,
the largesse will eventually trickle down.
And in the meantime,
enjoy watching your tax dollars
help billionaires
launch themselves into fucking space.
We'll be right back.
America needs inspiration.
-Mr. Bezos.
-Mr. Bezos? A question.
A vision for the future.
A reminder of what one man can do.
I'm going to ride a rocket into space.
And it's going to look just like my dick.
We've been there before.
Many times, okay? Men, women.
Do you know, in 1961,
we sent a chimpanzee into space?
But not in a dick that looks like my dick.
Billionaire Elon Musk
joins the race into space.
I too will be riding
my big, old dick into space.
People see things the way they are
and ask, "Why?"
I see things the way they could be,
and ask--
I'm sorry, could we maybe get the curve
to go midway up the shaft
of the space dick?
Not enough! Not short enough.
Not wide enough. Not enough!
You know who else had a chode? Galileo.
You know aerodynamics?
A rocket takes off into the sky.
I am a hero.
I am a conqueror.
I am a god.
You own a e-bookstore
and a whole grip of Whole Foods.
One small step for mankind.
One giant leap for me, personally.
Oh, so good of you to join us, Bezos.
Us?
Zuckerberg, is that you?
You don't have enough sunscreen
to be up here, Zuckerberg.
Technically, I got here first.
Chode.
We have this commitment
to the American dream,
or this "bootstraps" myth. You know?
Like, "If you're American, you work hard,
and you need to earn your keep."
But otherwise it's a handout
when everyone else gets a handout.
You had a great stat. Something like:
For every dollar that they put into…
Yeah, it's that you don't
get a dollar back.
When you give corporations money,
via subsidies, tax rate,
you tend to not get your dollar back,
as a government.
In fact, research shows
that the best investment
the government makes is children.
We should probably explain:
Susan knows everything.
'Cause the audience hasn't seen…
I was taught that if you worked hard…
that you would be able
to live a decent life.
That doesn't work anymore.
You can break your back, sweating blood…
the only people who are making up
from our hard work
are our CEOs, our shareholders.
We have been investing in making life
easier and more comfortable
for corporations for a very long time.
We're still really afraid of making, like,
corporations, and people at the top
of the wealth bracket, unhappy.
But we've just seen inequality growing.
It's only grown more and more.
Wages have stagnated.
I have two jobs and a bachelor's degree
and I struggle to make ends meet.
The federal poverty guidelines say
that I'm not poor,
but I cashed in a jar full of change
the other night
so my daughter could attend
a high school band competition
with her band.
I can't go grocery shopping
without a calculator.
I had to decide which bills not to pay
to be here in this room today.
Believe me, I pulled myself up
by the bootstraps so many damn times
that I've ripped 'em off.
So now let's talk a little bit about…
Let's talk a little bit about
why the workers we profess to love so much
are getting left behind.
First, we have Magaly Licolli,
cofounder of Venceremos,
a nonprofit community center
that organizes poultry plant workers
in Arkansas.
We've got Amy Jo Hutchison.
She's an organizer and advocate
for low-wage and impoverished workers
in West Virginia.
Darrick Hamilton is
a professor of economics and urban policy
at the New School in New York.
Douglas Holtz-Eakin is the former director
of Congressional Budget Office
and current president
of the think tank American Action Forum.
Amy Jo, I want to start with you,
because the testimony was so powerful.
Tell me a little bit
about why you were called that day,
and what you were testifying about.
I was called to do that
because I'd been to Congress before
to speak at a press briefing
when they weren't sure whether they were
gonna reauthorize CHIP insurance for kids.
I'm the only parent of two children.
Both of my kids were insured on CHIP.
They wanted someone from West Virginia.
We have one of the highest poverty rates
in the nation,
especially with child poverty.
I thought it was incredibly powerful
because it was exactly
what they say it isn't,
which is, "People are lazy.
They're not working hard."
And your story is:
You're working your ass off.
Absolutely.
And, Magaly,
you represent poultry workers,
which is probably
one of the most difficult jobs to do,
just purely on a physical basis.
But also communities that are--
oftentimes don't have any voice
in the system.
Yeah. I began organizing poultry workers
since 2014.
The majority of the community
are really disabled because of these jobs.
Ergonomic issues, carpal tunnel syndrome.
Most of them have respiratory problems.
So whenever the pandemic hit,
it was a red flag for all of the workers.
And we were like,
"What is going to happen?"
Because these workers
don't even have paid sick leave.
I want to try
and figure out some specifics
on what we think can change
the dynamic for workers.
Where can we do it from top down
rather than bottom up?
Well, I think the one thing to start with
is way before they become workers
and way before we're worried
about the corporations.
We have a failing K-12 education system
in the United States.
Those young people will never have
a fighting chance
if we don't take care of 'em.
And I think that's the biggest problem
this country faces.
It's been that way for ten years.
We measure it. We don't fix it.
-But isn't that--
-So that's the start.
Isn't that also still a function of--
Education is also a function of poverty.
-And if you're asking teachers to fix…
-More than just teach.
-…inherent, systemic economic disparities…
-Yes. I agree.
…I think you're putting
too much on people.
-I'm not blaming the teachers.
-Right. I'm just saying--
I'm saying--
If you start out that far behind
when you've come into your first job…
-Good grief.
-But a lot--
It makes everything we're gonna suggest
much harder.
Education is not a panacea.
Education has become a political ruse.
Education shifts responsibility
from public onto individuals.
"If only you work hard and study hard,
you will be fine."
If you're Black and your head
of household has a college degree,
you have less wealth than a white family
where the head dropped out of high school.
So that obviously is
established historically.
I mean, we got the causality wrong.
Perhaps it is wealth itself
that generates capacity to get a degree
or a certain amount of education.
At the end of the day,
we need an economy that empowers people
with resources well beyond education.
Including education,
but many other factors,
like good health, like a job.
Literally having a job. Right to a job.
I have a bachelor's degree.
I'm still impoverished, you know.
There are people with bachelor's degrees
making $15 an hour.
-Right.
-I was a gifted kid in high school, right?
The world was my oyster.
But I'm still living in poverty,
with a bachelor's degree, in this country.
-A lot of the money for education…
-Shouldn't be that way.
…actually is lost in the tax subsidies
that we give to corporations.
So they're inexplicably
and inextricably linked.
Okay, so let's-- Education is one thing.
Amy Jo, what would you say you need?
A care infrastructure.
You want to talk about early education,
we need to include
early childhood education as well.
You cannot have workforce participation
if you do not have childcare.
You will never-- Childcare in the state
of West Virginia, for one child,
for a private-pay family,
costs more for one year
than a year at West Virginia University
or Marshall University,
which is our state's two largest schools.
So parents are paying more for childcare
than they are for college tuition.
So what's gonna incentivize me
to go to work?
Childcare has been a middle-class issue
for two decades now
on the left and the right.
If you go to solidly Republican
congressional districts,
you will find that the leading issue for
a lot of women is health and childcare.
That's it. It's really simple.
I don't even think this should be
a political issue, though.
Like, start paying attention to the--
Maslow's hierarchy of needs, right?
I have a social work background--
Oh, shit. Maslow's hierarchy--
See, now I'm getting a little upset.
-You do have a bachelor's degree.
-See, I do.
-Oh, killing it, Amy Jo.
-I wanted to be a social worker.
But I mean, you know,
it's not rocket science to me.
Just think about the basic needs
of human beings.
There was a period in American history
where we had improvements.
We had productivity growing at 100%
over a period from 1948 to about 1979,
and labor real wages growing in lockstep.
Then as a result
of the Civil Rights Movement,
there was a corporate
backlash to that gain.
And it formed into
what we now see as supply-side economics.
This idea that if only we invest
in the dynamism of corporations,
that that's somehow gonna lift all boats,
that somehow workers
are gonna improve as well.
-It obviously hasn't been realized.
-Right.
Amy Jo, you know, West Virginia has
kind of a vaunted labor history.
You know, mine workers
and people like that.
Where is it now?
Like, in terms of
the people that you represent?
Now we're a right-to-work state.
And what the state legislature's trying
to pass, we can't even organize now.
They don't even want us to organize,
you know.
But I think, you know,
one of the biggest obstacles from my--
This is my lived experience.
Don't wanna speak for the millions
of poor people out there.
But one of the obstacles is, like,
you know, you're choosing between
organizing and pissing off your boss.
And if you're in that gray space
between not qualifying for SNAP
and not making enough to get by,
like, the real decision
at the end of the day will come to,
"Amy Jo, are you gonna join this union
and piss off your boss,
or are you going to feed
your kids in the morning?"
You know, and so
that's how drastic this stuff is.
I organize poultry workers
in the home of Tyson Foods.
And so Tyson has so much influence
over the community
that workers could not even
travel with me.
Or they cannot even do, like,
TV interviews
because they're afraid
that they're gonna be losing their jobs--
-The workers won't come on camera?
-On TV? No.
Tyson has so much power
in these rural white communities.
Like, last year with the pandemic,
we saw the huge power
of the meat companies over the government.
I mean, the processing plants were
the hot spot of COVID-19.
And they paid so much millions to lobby
for the companies to not shut down.
What power is strong enough
to countervail
corporate power in this country?
To me, the answer is obvious:
public power.
At the end of the day,
government works on behalf of people,
and that is who they should be
responsible for.
And we shouldn't give Treasury a pass.
We saw through this pandemic
that Treasury could do more
than just revenue collect.
They could send resources
directly to the American people.
Treasury and the tax code is
America's biggest fiscal tool.
And right now it is out of whack
with the values of government
working on behalf of people
as opposed to the corporations.
I really appreciate you guys coming here
and having the conversation.
I'm pretty sure we fixed it?
Thank you so much. We'll be right back
Guys, we did it!
Hi. I'm LeVar Burton.
You know me from…
You know me.
I've already taught one MasterClass,
but wouldn't you know it?
I've got more to say.
So in this new series,
I'm going to teach you
why this country won't raise
the minimum wage.
Where's that book
for the little Internet course I'm doing?
Here it is.
"This all started with slave labor."
But Kunta don't need to read that shit.
America won't raise the minimum wage
because they're used to getting
the work for free.
That's why we need a higher minimum wage,
because if they could get away with it,
they'd pay you nothing.
It's not slavery. It's perpetual poverty.
Join me for my next series,
where I teach you
about American beauty standards
using the exact same book.
But you don't have to take my word for it.
I'll see you next time.
I think, in 2008,
"We can't let the auto industry fail."
"We can't let big banks fail,
the insurance industry fail."
I think there's still
a lot of support for the idea
that corporations are too big to fail.
Or not even too big to fail,
that we can't let them fail.
Because they are the backbone
of our economy, right?
Don't you think
that's still a false choice?
It's not about making them fail.
It's about not allowing them
to privatize profit
-and socialize losses.
-Exactly.
You came around to the idea
that government is responsible for this.
And government isn't doing its job
to rein in these corporations.
Yeah. Regulation isn't the answer.
Because they're outgunned.
I don't wanna do a riff
from Hamilton right now.
Outgunned, outmanned
Out-planned, out stand
-Stop rolling. Cut.
-Out-fanned, outmanned
-Out-sand
-Yeah. Oh, boy.
-You'll never stop trying to get into it.
-This show just got canceled.
Room where it happens
-Everybody! Room where it happens
-No.
I'm a Jellicle cat
I'm a Jellicle cat
Thank you for taking time to talk to us.
-Thank you--
-We really appreciate it.
You know, they say
that free-market capitalism
is the best way
to deliver prosperity and growth
and the most efficient way to distribute
that prosperity throughout a population.
So, I guess my question is:
When can we have a free-market
capitalist system in this country?
-Well, we do have a capitalist system…
-What?
-…in this country.
-But not free market?
-The government plays an important role.
-Right.
And it's really essential
that government play its role
in order to make a market economy
efficient, well-functioning and fair.
In our economy,
when government intervenes,
government intervenes
on behalf of corporate interests
in a much more robust way
than they do for labor interests.
I think in recent decades
it is pretty much a fair assessment
that many of the interventions
have enhanced the power of corporations,
and we've ignored the needs
of individuals.
And I think there are structural forces
in US economy
and a failure of policy to do the job
-that Americans, I think…
-Right.
…should want government policy to do.
The Fed--
and you were the chairman of the Fed--
they're charged with making sure
that inflation doesn't get out of control,
and that there's a certain stability
in the employment market.
Employment and price stability
is the Fed's dual mandate.
The Fed will step in
when corporate policy fails.
They'll backstop large corporations.
Couldn't they also do that for workers?
Well, look,
corporations only have access to the Fed
in very rare circumstances.
And that is when we're faced with
a financial crisis,
as we were in 2008,
and then again when the pandemic struck.
The Fed has a responsibility to make sure
that our financial system functions.
-It's not right to say…
-But do you see, then-- Right.
…that the Fed is lending to corporations
on a regular basis.
-But…
-Maybe that's the disconnect though.
Because I think the 2008 crisis
is a great example, you know.
Instead of a big fire hose of money
being turned on those mortgages
that went underwater
and brought them back to sea level,
they chose to pour money
into those bundles,
and a lot of people lost their houses.
People had every reason
to feel unhappy about what happened.
The purpose of intervening
so that big financial institutions
and markets didn't completely fail
was to avoid a drying up
of credit in the economy.
If those financial institutions had been
allowed to fail,
the toll on ordinary families
would have been not only bad,
which it was,
but unspeakably horrendous.
We would've been looking at
something like the Great Depression.
I think, for people,
they would view it as,
"Well, if I'm gonna lose my house,
that's a crisis." You know?
"And I don't have a backstop."
That's an important reason why,
when the pandemic struck,
President Biden and his administration
have been focused
on using fiscal policy, not the Fed
to get help
to all those who really need it.
But corporate America gets
all the benefits
of American stability and fiscal policy
but bears none of the responsibility.
I'll give you an example.
Walmart. They make billions in profits.
Their workers are one of
the largest corporate users
of social service programs.
Why don't Walmart workers share
in the profits of Walmart?
You know, in a capitalist system,
companies have a right to distribute
profits to their shareholders.
They're not forced to.
-There's nothing in the law forces them--
-But aren't we subsidizing--
This is the insidious part, I think, of--
When we talk about
that we have a free-market system.
Because what it makes it seem like
is that the natural order of things
is that Walmart makes billions in profits
and can distribute it to its shareholders,
and that's just how it goes.
But we know that we, the taxpayers,
are subsidizing their workforce
with food stamps.
They're getting the benefit
of our tax dollars.
So it's not free market.
The government, in many cases,
should be running programs.
It's not necessarily the case
that Walmart should do that directly.
You don't feel they are responsible
because they benefit from fiscal policy--
they benefit
from the American infrastructure.
They do benefit from fiscal policy.
But I think the way-- an important way
of making them pay is by taxing them
and making sure that
their profits provide the resources
to provide that infrastructure.
You would rather they still make
their billions in profit,
but as long as they pay us taxes
so that we have enough to give
their workers food stamps, that's okay?
We also need to invest in their workers
so that they can have jobs
that will produce better pay,
that they'll have the skills
to be able to compete.
But it feels like
the system doesn't have accountability
for those at the corporate level.
-How do we build that into the system?
-Well, I--
I think there's a lot of truth
in what you're saying.
And we're very focused
on trying to make sure
that companies are responsible
and do pay their fair share.
So corporate--
But we slashed the IRS budget.
We have all--
We make accountability very difficult.
We're trying to reverse that.
We're proposing a substantial increase
in resources for the IRS
so they can go after tax evasion.
I want to tell you about another thing…
-Yeah.
-…that's important here.
All over the world, countries have been
competing with one another
to attract these companies
by cutting corporate tax rates.
-Right.
-Every country faces this,
of companies having power
and saying to governments,
"Cut our tax rates,
or we're gonna go someplace else."
Is the problem here that corporations feel
like they have this country over a barrel?
We have a system where
political contributions are important
and where wealthy corporations
and individuals
use the power of…
-Access.
-…of access to skew the playing field.
But the Biden administration has
a different view.
And we wanna make sure
that companies behave fairly,
that they pay their fair share.
And we make the investments
in people and communities
-that are necessary to reverse this.
-Who fights you on this?
When you bring this up,
or when you try and change fiscal policy
in that way,
where's the fight from?
What are the headwinds?
Why is it difficult to push through?
-The headwinds come--
-And I'd like some names.
Let me get a pen.
You know, the--
People don't like
to have their taxes increased.
And, you know,
we need to raise more tax revenue
in order to finance the investments
that our economy needs
to be productive
and for families to do well.
Isn't entrenched poverty in this country
an urgent enough situation…
-It is.
-…that if the Fed will intervene
on behalf of a cataclysm,
shouldn't perpetual poverty be
another urgent example
of a catastrophe
that needs to be ameliorated?
We need to raise the minimum wage.
Congress has refused to act on it.
That's something that Congress needs to do
to protect workers.
There's a lot that needs to be--
President Biden has set out
a Build Back Better Agenda.
-I don't like slogans.
-And it has--
Well, I think Build Back Better is
a good slogan. And--
It's alliteration. I'll give you
alliteration. But I'm not crazy about it.
I like it because it says
that there's something wrong
with the way our economy has been working
that we need to change.
What we have is a society that's grown
increasingly unequal,
with huge inequality.
And it perpetuates itself over time
in ways that are really insidious.
You know, there's a lot we can do.
And we have an agenda. We know what to do.
Secretary, thank you so much.
-Thank you. Much appreciated.
-Much appreciated. Thank you so much.
I had this whole thing worked up
in my mind about the stock market,
and how the Fed has been
artificially inflating stock prices,
and, "Doesn't that point to another
intervention on behalf of corporations?"
The way I'd gamed it out,
the conversation would've ended with,
"Sir, I yield."
"I yield to thee. You have vanquished"--
And then she would fall over…
and turn into a handkerchief.
The stock market is really owned by a very
small group of people
at the end of the day.
The top 10% wealthiest families
own 84% of overall equities.
-84% of the stock market.
-Right.
It's been drilled into all of us now
that the stock market is the economy.
And even for me,
as a dude who owns zero stocks,
every time I see the stock market's up,
I'm like, "Thank God."
Yeah. "We're okay."
"We're all doing good today.
Today's a good day."
Solution is, we lose the stock ticker,
and we create a ticker of just people.
We follow the fortunes of workers
on the ticker on CNBC.
Just-- Boom!
And then, on the-- Listen,
not all the ideas are gonna be gems.
Hello again!
Please support the efforts
of tonight's guests.
We will be following their work
on the show's podcast.
We have a podcast,
which I have to say is just neck and neck
with music in my eyes.
Just-- Really.
Podcast, music. What do I listen to today?
By the way, if you're wondering
what a CNBC screen would look like
if it actually reflected
the important metrics of the economy…
Ta-da.
There we go. Purchasing power,
median wage, investing in work--
Hey, look at that.
Vanessa is up 1.4 points.
She just got a vendor's license
for a food truck.
It's plant-based CBD barbecue fusion.
It's a little bit of a risk.
But we'll see.
That's all for tonight.
Please join us next time. Thank you.
That's it!
by the way.
-I've been doing it for years.
-[Reza] Yeah.
-[woman] Hey!
-[Reniqua] Wow. Impressive.
[Reza] I was watching him do it,
like, "That's impressive."
[Stewart] In the 2008 crisis,
I remember government jumps in and
bail out the mortgage derivative company.
And it's billions of dollars.
And the mortgages
that had gone underwater,
well, those people were all gonna
lose their houses.
[woman] Mm-hmm.
And the Secretary of the Treasury,
Tim Geithner,
said we couldn't bail out the homeowners
in the way that we bailed out the banks.
And I said, "Why not?"
-And he said, "Moral hazard."
-Hmm.
You would be rewarding those,
through their own fault,
their mortgages went south.
So you gave billions of dollars
to the people
whose shitty bets nearly imploded
the world economy.
How is that not "moral hazard"?
[chuckles] And I'll never forget, he said…
"We had to land the plane.
The plane was on fire"…
-That's right.
-…"and we had to land it."
In that moment, I was like,
"Oh, my God. And you're the Democrat."
[all laughing]
Oh, my God!
-[audience cheering, applauding]
-Hey! Good evening.
Good evening.
That is tremendous stamina on your part.
That was-- Had to be
a minute and a half of applause,
like, "Can we just put our hands down?"
[audience laughing]
Good evening and welcome.
As you know, our country continues
to emerge from the recent pandemic.
And then, of course, plunge back into it,
and then re-emerge, and then…
It's emotionally a lot.
During this time, we learned it was
the essential workers who kept us afloat.
Wall Street didn't build this country.
The middle class built the country.
…the people who built this country
from the ground up. The workers.
I love our blue-collar workers.
I consider myself, in a certain way,
to be a blue collar worker.
…taxi cab drivers and cops
and firefighters
and waiters and waitresses
and the men and women
with calluses on their hands…
…working man
with calluses on-- on his hands…
[both] …men and women
with calluses on their hands…
[all] …men and women
with calluses on their hands…
[all] …calluses on their hands…
…whose hands are thick with calluses.
[male narrator] It's the official truck
of callused hands and elbow grease.
[narrator 2]
Praise the workers. Praise the work.
[audience laughing]
Yes, by all means, praise the worker.
But for God's sakes,
will no one give them hand lotion?
[audience laughing]
[stammers] Their mitts are like sandpaper.
Give 'em some lotion.
We love and respect
the hardworking people of this country,
although I'm pretty sure
they don't always feel the love.
First of all, my age.
I'm going to, you know--
I need health care
for a surgery if it comes up.
I need assistance to pay my rent.
After twenty-five and a half years,
I make $8.99 an hour.
The student loans will probably delay
me ever buying a house with my fiancé.
I dropped out of college.
I had to. I couldn't afford it.
My mother couldn't afford it.
I don't get paid maternity leave.
I work seven days a week.
I can't afford to retire
because of health care.
I need childcare
like I need my next breath.
I have two degrees.
I have student loans
and bachelor's degrees
and 14 years' experience.
I should not have to come ask for food.
I'm living paycheck to paycheck.
If I live in a country that says
it's number one,
why do I feel like, you know,
I'm at the bottom of the barrel?
It turns out that hardworking Americans
aren't doing that great.
Anybody know what might help them?
…single-payer health care,
government paid childcare…
-…free college…
-…government healthy food…
…early education, child education,
universal childcare…
…guaranteed job for everyone,
with a family-sustaining wage,
adequate family and medical leave,
paid vacations and retirement security.
You guys are dead-on.
Man. That is totally unexpected.
But you all are dead-on right.
That is exactly what we need to do
in this country.
But I sensed a tone in your voice.
Why aren't we doing those things?
If that's not socialism,
I'm not sure what is.
…every socialist wish list item.
…socialist and globalist wish list…
…socialist fantasy…
Paradise for all…
Right!
So there it is.
We cannot give our hardworking,
leather-handed heroes
their basic needs because that's…
socialism.
And thus… the problem with the economy.
Now, if you've ever listened to AM radio
in your uncle's van,
you know: Socialism not good.
The moment America becomes
a socialist country
is the moment that America ceases
to be America.
The United Socialist States of America…
…job-killing, soul-crushing,
socialist agenda.
I mean, hello, Venezuela.
They wanna take your pickup truck…
They want your money,
and if you won't give it to 'em,
they'll take it.
…they wanna rebuild your home…
Socialism destroys. Socialism kills.
People really die.
-It's despair…
-…destruction…
-…it's starvation…
-…poverty…
-…squalor…
-…chaos…
Death.
…they wanna take away your hamburgers…
Death!
Despair!
The Hamburglar!
And, you know,
they're being so descriptive,
but I just wish I had
some kind of visual metaphor
for what they mean.
Takes a brave and adept hunter
to bring down a giant, stationary placard.
So we know that socialism is evil.
But if you would indulge me
for just a moment,
why is it evil again?
Is socialism a fair system?
Oh, not at all.
Because what does socialism do?
It allows the government to choose
winners and losers.
And that is one of the things that
we as conservatives fight against.
We want a level playing field.
First of all,
your blazer has magnificent buttons.
I'm quite superficial, I hope you--
So, socialism is bad
because it's the government picking
the winners and losers.
And there's nothing worse than that.
Not spiders with wings,
not grandma titty punching.
There's nothing worse.
Basically saying,
"If you're a loser, it's your fault.
And government stepping in is socialism.
Get your shit together,
and keep Uncle Sam's sweet teats
out of your dirty fucking loser mouth."
Uncle Sam wants you
to leave these bad boys alone.
[audience laughing]
There's only one--
There's only one problem with this.
And that is, government picks
winners and losers all the time.
The White House gives an early
Christmas present to Detroit's automakers,
a $17 billion loan.
The airline industry has gotten
a $50 billion lifeline.
…$23 million incentive package for Amazon.
JPMorgan Chase got $25 billion.
Chrysler got some seven billion dollars.
$700 billion of your taxpayer money
to Wall Street big banks.
The tuna company StarKist plus gets
a $62 million tax credit.
Wisconsin is giving Foxconn
three billion dollars.
The state offered more than $845 million
for Apple to build
right where I'm standing right now.
[gasping] I thought we cut that clip.
I thought-- [stammers]
I thought the Apple clip got cut.
I don't-- [giggles]
That's not-- That's-- That's--
[shouting] And the last one was very fair.
[audience laughing, applauding]
All of it is--
[applauding continues]
I'll see myself out.
[audience laughs]
So it turns out that the government is
picking winners and losers.
It's just picking corporations
to be the winners.
Man, I would imagine
that good free-market capitalists hate
this type of socialist intervention.
Let's be clear.
The auto bailout saved 1.5 million jobs.
When we figure out who to triage,
we must save Boeing.
Stabilizing the banks was essential.
We incentivized Amazon to come,
as we incentivize
every big business to come.
Ten billion is a small price to pay
for saving a company of that magnitude.
So apparently government picking winners
and losers in this case is great.
Not only does the government pick
winners and losers,
but with these bailouts,
they're apparently picking losers
and turning them into winners.
Just out of curiosity,
what would you say
if we bailed out a person?
Making being poor more comfortable
has only helped people to stay poor.
They started sending checks to people,
getting them a little bit more reliant
on government, more reliant on government.
And now they're full-blown
incentivizing laziness.
Because why work hard when
the government is gonna cut you a check?
The welfare state has incentivized women
to marry the government
and allowed men to abandon
their financial and moral responsibility.
"Women are marrying governments!"
Is that really any worse
than marrying men?
Probably not.
I mean, to be honest…
are we that much of a bargain? No.
And by the way, it is 2021…
I believe it's time
men can also marry governments.
I think that's something--
That's a woke crowd, right there.
The federal government intervenes
all the time in favor of corporations,
be it through lowering
corporate tax rates,
deregulating certain industries,
industry subsidies, bailouts…
And I assume, since a lot of that comes
from the taxpayers,
we at least get some say
in what they do with the money.
I certainly don't want the government
trying to direct companies
to put their capital in this place
or that place.
The federal government should not be
in the business
of specifying executive compensation.
I really just don't think
it's the job of the government
to decide
how companies should spend their money.
Let companies decide
how they want to spend their money.
Don't interfere with private businesses.
Let them make their decisions.
Government should have zero role
in determining, in influencing,
in mandating any type of CEO compensation.
These are private companies.
Yeah, it's interesting,
because when we bail out people,
we got nothing but say.
For instance, with food stamps,
they cannot buy diapers,
cleaning supplies, vitamins or hot food.
Hot food.
Corporations can use bailout money
to pay their already wealthy CEOs
if they feel like it.
But God forbid
a poor person finds their way
to a salad bar's heat-lamp pot roast.
"No, no, no!
Only the rich get to suckle the nectar
of premade meatball subs."
"That is the domain of the aristocracy."
When corporations fail, you pay for it.
But when they succeed, it's theirs.
They socialize their losses
and privatize their gains.
Why do we allow that?
Consider this:
Wealthy people do not stash their billions
in safe deposit boxes
loaded with $100 bills.
They don't do that,
and they don't spend it all at the mall.
They don't spend like crazy.
No, wealthy people invest.
It is investment that creates jobs
and economic growth.
See, this is the lie they tell you,
that all this money flowing
towards corporate, moneyed interests
is actually for your benefit.
That government intervention
for corporations is our free market,
but government intervention for workers
is socialism.
And that's the reason
for the socialism scaremongering.
It's a false choice to make you believe
that this country has but two options:
a socialist, authoritarian… hamburgerless,
Venezuelan nightmare,
or accept the status quo,
where large corporations benefit
from government help,
then use some of those profits
to lobby the same government
for more government help.
They want you to believe
that in a free market,
while your wages stay low, someday,
the largesse will eventually trickle down.
And in the meantime,
enjoy watching your tax dollars
help billionaires
launch themselves into fucking space.
We'll be right back.
America needs inspiration.
-Mr. Bezos.
-Mr. Bezos? A question.
A vision for the future.
A reminder of what one man can do.
I'm going to ride a rocket into space.
And it's going to look just like my dick.
We've been there before.
Many times, okay? Men, women.
Do you know, in 1961,
we sent a chimpanzee into space?
But not in a dick that looks like my dick.
Billionaire Elon Musk
joins the race into space.
I too will be riding
my big, old dick into space.
People see things the way they are
and ask, "Why?"
I see things the way they could be,
and ask--
I'm sorry, could we maybe get the curve
to go midway up the shaft
of the space dick?
Not enough! Not short enough.
Not wide enough. Not enough!
You know who else had a chode? Galileo.
You know aerodynamics?
A rocket takes off into the sky.
I am a hero.
I am a conqueror.
I am a god.
You own a e-bookstore
and a whole grip of Whole Foods.
One small step for mankind.
One giant leap for me, personally.
Oh, so good of you to join us, Bezos.
Us?
Zuckerberg, is that you?
You don't have enough sunscreen
to be up here, Zuckerberg.
Technically, I got here first.
Chode.
We have this commitment
to the American dream,
or this "bootstraps" myth. You know?
Like, "If you're American, you work hard,
and you need to earn your keep."
But otherwise it's a handout
when everyone else gets a handout.
You had a great stat. Something like:
For every dollar that they put into…
Yeah, it's that you don't
get a dollar back.
When you give corporations money,
via subsidies, tax rate,
you tend to not get your dollar back,
as a government.
In fact, research shows
that the best investment
the government makes is children.
We should probably explain:
Susan knows everything.
'Cause the audience hasn't seen…
I was taught that if you worked hard…
that you would be able
to live a decent life.
That doesn't work anymore.
You can break your back, sweating blood…
the only people who are making up
from our hard work
are our CEOs, our shareholders.
We have been investing in making life
easier and more comfortable
for corporations for a very long time.
We're still really afraid of making, like,
corporations, and people at the top
of the wealth bracket, unhappy.
But we've just seen inequality growing.
It's only grown more and more.
Wages have stagnated.
I have two jobs and a bachelor's degree
and I struggle to make ends meet.
The federal poverty guidelines say
that I'm not poor,
but I cashed in a jar full of change
the other night
so my daughter could attend
a high school band competition
with her band.
I can't go grocery shopping
without a calculator.
I had to decide which bills not to pay
to be here in this room today.
Believe me, I pulled myself up
by the bootstraps so many damn times
that I've ripped 'em off.
So now let's talk a little bit about…
Let's talk a little bit about
why the workers we profess to love so much
are getting left behind.
First, we have Magaly Licolli,
cofounder of Venceremos,
a nonprofit community center
that organizes poultry plant workers
in Arkansas.
We've got Amy Jo Hutchison.
She's an organizer and advocate
for low-wage and impoverished workers
in West Virginia.
Darrick Hamilton is
a professor of economics and urban policy
at the New School in New York.
Douglas Holtz-Eakin is the former director
of Congressional Budget Office
and current president
of the think tank American Action Forum.
Amy Jo, I want to start with you,
because the testimony was so powerful.
Tell me a little bit
about why you were called that day,
and what you were testifying about.
I was called to do that
because I'd been to Congress before
to speak at a press briefing
when they weren't sure whether they were
gonna reauthorize CHIP insurance for kids.
I'm the only parent of two children.
Both of my kids were insured on CHIP.
They wanted someone from West Virginia.
We have one of the highest poverty rates
in the nation,
especially with child poverty.
I thought it was incredibly powerful
because it was exactly
what they say it isn't,
which is, "People are lazy.
They're not working hard."
And your story is:
You're working your ass off.
Absolutely.
And, Magaly,
you represent poultry workers,
which is probably
one of the most difficult jobs to do,
just purely on a physical basis.
But also communities that are--
oftentimes don't have any voice
in the system.
Yeah. I began organizing poultry workers
since 2014.
The majority of the community
are really disabled because of these jobs.
Ergonomic issues, carpal tunnel syndrome.
Most of them have respiratory problems.
So whenever the pandemic hit,
it was a red flag for all of the workers.
And we were like,
"What is going to happen?"
Because these workers
don't even have paid sick leave.
I want to try
and figure out some specifics
on what we think can change
the dynamic for workers.
Where can we do it from top down
rather than bottom up?
Well, I think the one thing to start with
is way before they become workers
and way before we're worried
about the corporations.
We have a failing K-12 education system
in the United States.
Those young people will never have
a fighting chance
if we don't take care of 'em.
And I think that's the biggest problem
this country faces.
It's been that way for ten years.
We measure it. We don't fix it.
-But isn't that--
-So that's the start.
Isn't that also still a function of--
Education is also a function of poverty.
-And if you're asking teachers to fix…
-More than just teach.
-…inherent, systemic economic disparities…
-Yes. I agree.
…I think you're putting
too much on people.
-I'm not blaming the teachers.
-Right. I'm just saying--
I'm saying--
If you start out that far behind
when you've come into your first job…
-Good grief.
-But a lot--
It makes everything we're gonna suggest
much harder.
Education is not a panacea.
Education has become a political ruse.
Education shifts responsibility
from public onto individuals.
"If only you work hard and study hard,
you will be fine."
If you're Black and your head
of household has a college degree,
you have less wealth than a white family
where the head dropped out of high school.
So that obviously is
established historically.
I mean, we got the causality wrong.
Perhaps it is wealth itself
that generates capacity to get a degree
or a certain amount of education.
At the end of the day,
we need an economy that empowers people
with resources well beyond education.
Including education,
but many other factors,
like good health, like a job.
Literally having a job. Right to a job.
I have a bachelor's degree.
I'm still impoverished, you know.
There are people with bachelor's degrees
making $15 an hour.
-Right.
-I was a gifted kid in high school, right?
The world was my oyster.
But I'm still living in poverty,
with a bachelor's degree, in this country.
-A lot of the money for education…
-Shouldn't be that way.
…actually is lost in the tax subsidies
that we give to corporations.
So they're inexplicably
and inextricably linked.
Okay, so let's-- Education is one thing.
Amy Jo, what would you say you need?
A care infrastructure.
You want to talk about early education,
we need to include
early childhood education as well.
You cannot have workforce participation
if you do not have childcare.
You will never-- Childcare in the state
of West Virginia, for one child,
for a private-pay family,
costs more for one year
than a year at West Virginia University
or Marshall University,
which is our state's two largest schools.
So parents are paying more for childcare
than they are for college tuition.
So what's gonna incentivize me
to go to work?
Childcare has been a middle-class issue
for two decades now
on the left and the right.
If you go to solidly Republican
congressional districts,
you will find that the leading issue for
a lot of women is health and childcare.
That's it. It's really simple.
I don't even think this should be
a political issue, though.
Like, start paying attention to the--
Maslow's hierarchy of needs, right?
I have a social work background--
Oh, shit. Maslow's hierarchy--
See, now I'm getting a little upset.
-You do have a bachelor's degree.
-See, I do.
-Oh, killing it, Amy Jo.
-I wanted to be a social worker.
But I mean, you know,
it's not rocket science to me.
Just think about the basic needs
of human beings.
There was a period in American history
where we had improvements.
We had productivity growing at 100%
over a period from 1948 to about 1979,
and labor real wages growing in lockstep.
Then as a result
of the Civil Rights Movement,
there was a corporate
backlash to that gain.
And it formed into
what we now see as supply-side economics.
This idea that if only we invest
in the dynamism of corporations,
that that's somehow gonna lift all boats,
that somehow workers
are gonna improve as well.
-It obviously hasn't been realized.
-Right.
Amy Jo, you know, West Virginia has
kind of a vaunted labor history.
You know, mine workers
and people like that.
Where is it now?
Like, in terms of
the people that you represent?
Now we're a right-to-work state.
And what the state legislature's trying
to pass, we can't even organize now.
They don't even want us to organize,
you know.
But I think, you know,
one of the biggest obstacles from my--
This is my lived experience.
Don't wanna speak for the millions
of poor people out there.
But one of the obstacles is, like,
you know, you're choosing between
organizing and pissing off your boss.
And if you're in that gray space
between not qualifying for SNAP
and not making enough to get by,
like, the real decision
at the end of the day will come to,
"Amy Jo, are you gonna join this union
and piss off your boss,
or are you going to feed
your kids in the morning?"
You know, and so
that's how drastic this stuff is.
I organize poultry workers
in the home of Tyson Foods.
And so Tyson has so much influence
over the community
that workers could not even
travel with me.
Or they cannot even do, like,
TV interviews
because they're afraid
that they're gonna be losing their jobs--
-The workers won't come on camera?
-On TV? No.
Tyson has so much power
in these rural white communities.
Like, last year with the pandemic,
we saw the huge power
of the meat companies over the government.
I mean, the processing plants were
the hot spot of COVID-19.
And they paid so much millions to lobby
for the companies to not shut down.
What power is strong enough
to countervail
corporate power in this country?
To me, the answer is obvious:
public power.
At the end of the day,
government works on behalf of people,
and that is who they should be
responsible for.
And we shouldn't give Treasury a pass.
We saw through this pandemic
that Treasury could do more
than just revenue collect.
They could send resources
directly to the American people.
Treasury and the tax code is
America's biggest fiscal tool.
And right now it is out of whack
with the values of government
working on behalf of people
as opposed to the corporations.
I really appreciate you guys coming here
and having the conversation.
I'm pretty sure we fixed it?
Thank you so much. We'll be right back
Guys, we did it!
Hi. I'm LeVar Burton.
You know me from…
You know me.
I've already taught one MasterClass,
but wouldn't you know it?
I've got more to say.
So in this new series,
I'm going to teach you
why this country won't raise
the minimum wage.
Where's that book
for the little Internet course I'm doing?
Here it is.
"This all started with slave labor."
But Kunta don't need to read that shit.
America won't raise the minimum wage
because they're used to getting
the work for free.
That's why we need a higher minimum wage,
because if they could get away with it,
they'd pay you nothing.
It's not slavery. It's perpetual poverty.
Join me for my next series,
where I teach you
about American beauty standards
using the exact same book.
But you don't have to take my word for it.
I'll see you next time.
I think, in 2008,
"We can't let the auto industry fail."
"We can't let big banks fail,
the insurance industry fail."
I think there's still
a lot of support for the idea
that corporations are too big to fail.
Or not even too big to fail,
that we can't let them fail.
Because they are the backbone
of our economy, right?
Don't you think
that's still a false choice?
It's not about making them fail.
It's about not allowing them
to privatize profit
-and socialize losses.
-Exactly.
You came around to the idea
that government is responsible for this.
And government isn't doing its job
to rein in these corporations.
Yeah. Regulation isn't the answer.
Because they're outgunned.
I don't wanna do a riff
from Hamilton right now.
Outgunned, outmanned
Out-planned, out stand
-Stop rolling. Cut.
-Out-fanned, outmanned
-Out-sand
-Yeah. Oh, boy.
-You'll never stop trying to get into it.
-This show just got canceled.
Room where it happens
-Everybody! Room where it happens
-No.
I'm a Jellicle cat
I'm a Jellicle cat
Thank you for taking time to talk to us.
-Thank you--
-We really appreciate it.
You know, they say
that free-market capitalism
is the best way
to deliver prosperity and growth
and the most efficient way to distribute
that prosperity throughout a population.
So, I guess my question is:
When can we have a free-market
capitalist system in this country?
-Well, we do have a capitalist system…
-What?
-…in this country.
-But not free market?
-The government plays an important role.
-Right.
And it's really essential
that government play its role
in order to make a market economy
efficient, well-functioning and fair.
In our economy,
when government intervenes,
government intervenes
on behalf of corporate interests
in a much more robust way
than they do for labor interests.
I think in recent decades
it is pretty much a fair assessment
that many of the interventions
have enhanced the power of corporations,
and we've ignored the needs
of individuals.
And I think there are structural forces
in US economy
and a failure of policy to do the job
-that Americans, I think…
-Right.
…should want government policy to do.
The Fed--
and you were the chairman of the Fed--
they're charged with making sure
that inflation doesn't get out of control,
and that there's a certain stability
in the employment market.
Employment and price stability
is the Fed's dual mandate.
The Fed will step in
when corporate policy fails.
They'll backstop large corporations.
Couldn't they also do that for workers?
Well, look,
corporations only have access to the Fed
in very rare circumstances.
And that is when we're faced with
a financial crisis,
as we were in 2008,
and then again when the pandemic struck.
The Fed has a responsibility to make sure
that our financial system functions.
-It's not right to say…
-But do you see, then-- Right.
…that the Fed is lending to corporations
on a regular basis.
-But…
-Maybe that's the disconnect though.
Because I think the 2008 crisis
is a great example, you know.
Instead of a big fire hose of money
being turned on those mortgages
that went underwater
and brought them back to sea level,
they chose to pour money
into those bundles,
and a lot of people lost their houses.
People had every reason
to feel unhappy about what happened.
The purpose of intervening
so that big financial institutions
and markets didn't completely fail
was to avoid a drying up
of credit in the economy.
If those financial institutions had been
allowed to fail,
the toll on ordinary families
would have been not only bad,
which it was,
but unspeakably horrendous.
We would've been looking at
something like the Great Depression.
I think, for people,
they would view it as,
"Well, if I'm gonna lose my house,
that's a crisis." You know?
"And I don't have a backstop."
That's an important reason why,
when the pandemic struck,
President Biden and his administration
have been focused
on using fiscal policy, not the Fed
to get help
to all those who really need it.
But corporate America gets
all the benefits
of American stability and fiscal policy
but bears none of the responsibility.
I'll give you an example.
Walmart. They make billions in profits.
Their workers are one of
the largest corporate users
of social service programs.
Why don't Walmart workers share
in the profits of Walmart?
You know, in a capitalist system,
companies have a right to distribute
profits to their shareholders.
They're not forced to.
-There's nothing in the law forces them--
-But aren't we subsidizing--
This is the insidious part, I think, of--
When we talk about
that we have a free-market system.
Because what it makes it seem like
is that the natural order of things
is that Walmart makes billions in profits
and can distribute it to its shareholders,
and that's just how it goes.
But we know that we, the taxpayers,
are subsidizing their workforce
with food stamps.
They're getting the benefit
of our tax dollars.
So it's not free market.
The government, in many cases,
should be running programs.
It's not necessarily the case
that Walmart should do that directly.
You don't feel they are responsible
because they benefit from fiscal policy--
they benefit
from the American infrastructure.
They do benefit from fiscal policy.
But I think the way-- an important way
of making them pay is by taxing them
and making sure that
their profits provide the resources
to provide that infrastructure.
You would rather they still make
their billions in profit,
but as long as they pay us taxes
so that we have enough to give
their workers food stamps, that's okay?
We also need to invest in their workers
so that they can have jobs
that will produce better pay,
that they'll have the skills
to be able to compete.
But it feels like
the system doesn't have accountability
for those at the corporate level.
-How do we build that into the system?
-Well, I--
I think there's a lot of truth
in what you're saying.
And we're very focused
on trying to make sure
that companies are responsible
and do pay their fair share.
So corporate--
But we slashed the IRS budget.
We have all--
We make accountability very difficult.
We're trying to reverse that.
We're proposing a substantial increase
in resources for the IRS
so they can go after tax evasion.
I want to tell you about another thing…
-Yeah.
-…that's important here.
All over the world, countries have been
competing with one another
to attract these companies
by cutting corporate tax rates.
-Right.
-Every country faces this,
of companies having power
and saying to governments,
"Cut our tax rates,
or we're gonna go someplace else."
Is the problem here that corporations feel
like they have this country over a barrel?
We have a system where
political contributions are important
and where wealthy corporations
and individuals
use the power of…
-Access.
-…of access to skew the playing field.
But the Biden administration has
a different view.
And we wanna make sure
that companies behave fairly,
that they pay their fair share.
And we make the investments
in people and communities
-that are necessary to reverse this.
-Who fights you on this?
When you bring this up,
or when you try and change fiscal policy
in that way,
where's the fight from?
What are the headwinds?
Why is it difficult to push through?
-The headwinds come--
-And I'd like some names.
Let me get a pen.
You know, the--
People don't like
to have their taxes increased.
And, you know,
we need to raise more tax revenue
in order to finance the investments
that our economy needs
to be productive
and for families to do well.
Isn't entrenched poverty in this country
an urgent enough situation…
-It is.
-…that if the Fed will intervene
on behalf of a cataclysm,
shouldn't perpetual poverty be
another urgent example
of a catastrophe
that needs to be ameliorated?
We need to raise the minimum wage.
Congress has refused to act on it.
That's something that Congress needs to do
to protect workers.
There's a lot that needs to be--
President Biden has set out
a Build Back Better Agenda.
-I don't like slogans.
-And it has--
Well, I think Build Back Better is
a good slogan. And--
It's alliteration. I'll give you
alliteration. But I'm not crazy about it.
I like it because it says
that there's something wrong
with the way our economy has been working
that we need to change.
What we have is a society that's grown
increasingly unequal,
with huge inequality.
And it perpetuates itself over time
in ways that are really insidious.
You know, there's a lot we can do.
And we have an agenda. We know what to do.
Secretary, thank you so much.
-Thank you. Much appreciated.
-Much appreciated. Thank you so much.
I had this whole thing worked up
in my mind about the stock market,
and how the Fed has been
artificially inflating stock prices,
and, "Doesn't that point to another
intervention on behalf of corporations?"
The way I'd gamed it out,
the conversation would've ended with,
"Sir, I yield."
"I yield to thee. You have vanquished"--
And then she would fall over…
and turn into a handkerchief.
The stock market is really owned by a very
small group of people
at the end of the day.
The top 10% wealthiest families
own 84% of overall equities.
-84% of the stock market.
-Right.
It's been drilled into all of us now
that the stock market is the economy.
And even for me,
as a dude who owns zero stocks,
every time I see the stock market's up,
I'm like, "Thank God."
Yeah. "We're okay."
"We're all doing good today.
Today's a good day."
Solution is, we lose the stock ticker,
and we create a ticker of just people.
We follow the fortunes of workers
on the ticker on CNBC.
Just-- Boom!
And then, on the-- Listen,
not all the ideas are gonna be gems.
Hello again!
Please support the efforts
of tonight's guests.
We will be following their work
on the show's podcast.
We have a podcast,
which I have to say is just neck and neck
with music in my eyes.
Just-- Really.
Podcast, music. What do I listen to today?
By the way, if you're wondering
what a CNBC screen would look like
if it actually reflected
the important metrics of the economy…
Ta-da.
There we go. Purchasing power,
median wage, investing in work--
Hey, look at that.
Vanessa is up 1.4 points.
She just got a vendor's license
for a food truck.
It's plant-based CBD barbecue fusion.
It's a little bit of a risk.
But we'll see.
That's all for tonight.
Please join us next time. Thank you.
That's it!