This Is Pop (2021) s01e03 Episode Script

["Everybody (Backstreet's Back)"
by Backstreet Boys playing]
[narrator] What if I told you
there was something
that many of the biggest pop songs
from the last 50 years had in common
and that something is a country?
Everybody ♪
[narrator] Would you believe me
if I told you one small country
is responsible
for an astronomical amount of hits
from today and yesterday,
including some of the most
recognizable songs of all time?
Backstreet's back, all right ♪
[narrator] Because the truth is
many of the biggest pop stars in the world
are performing songs that were written
and produced by people from Sweden.
[dramatic chord]
This is America ♪
Don't catch you slippin' now ♪
Don't catch you slippin' now ♪
Look what I'm whippin' now ♪
This is America ♪
Don't catch you slippin' now ♪
[narrator] But why?
Why is Sweden responsible
for so many of the biggest writers
and producers in pop?
Take Ludwig Göransson, for example.
Not only is one half of Childish Gambino,
he's also become
one of the hottest producers in Hollywood.
My first year of school,
I scored a lot of student films,
one of those directors
that I worked with was Ryan Coogler.
And little did I know that 10 years later
we were going
to do Black Panther together.
[narrator] The same year that Göransson
took home an Oscar
and a Grammy for Black Panther,
he also picked up two Grammys
for "This Is America."
Ooh ♪
[narrator] Not a bad year.
Tell somebody, you go tell somebody ♪
[narrator] So, if anyone can explain
why the Swedes are so good
at making pop music, it's him.
Yeah, so um
In Sweden you're not really supposed
to talk about your success.
We more like to listen
to what other people have to say.
So, good luck.
[people chuckling]
[narrator] Ah. Well, okay then,
looks like if we're
going to solve this puzzle,
we'll need to dig a little deeper.
Which means, we're going to Sweden!
[church bells tolling]
[whimsical string music]
[narrator] If we want to understand
why the Swedes have become
the go-to writers and producers
in America,
we should probably start with the history
of pop music inside Sweden.
And that story starts with this guy.
Not them on the bike.
This guy,
who would go on to be a part of
one of the biggest bands in the world.
I was in a band in the ‘60s
called The Hep Stars,
a rock and roll band, really.
We used to do covers.
And then The Beatles came along.
I mean, they wrote their own music,
and I was thinking,
"Hmm. Well, if they can do it,
maybe we can do it, too."
I thought then,
"If I can write one good song,
I could probably write two.
And if I can write two songs,
I can write three songs."
So, I decided there on the spot,
"Okay, I'm going to give this a go
and see see if it works."
[narrator]And it did work.
Joining up with Björn, Anni-Frid,
and Agnetha,
and taking the first letter
of each of their names
[fanfare]
[narrator] ABBA was born.
[upbeat disco music playing]
[narrator] ABBA would go on to become
one of the biggest bands in the world,
selling an estimated 385 million records.
- [crowd chanting] We want ABBA!
- [narrator] But before 1974,
the rest of the world
didn't even know their name.
We said, "If we want people
to know that we exist,
how are we going to do that?"
So, we said,
"Maybe the Eurovision Song Contest?"
Which is huge.
[orchestra playing]
[disco music playing]
[announcer] These are the ABBA group.
[Benny]
I think that was the first year, 1974,
that any country could sing
in any language.
We said, "If we are allowed
to sing in English, we must,"
because we thought
that would make a bigger splash
than if we did it in Swedish.
We had a song called "Hasta Mañana"
which is a good song,
but we said, "No, we should have something
that would represent what we want to do,
not necessarily adjust to what
they might like at the Eurovision."
Which is more of
a European traditional schlager.
[bell dings]
[narrator] Wait schlager?
What's schlager?
[uptempo German music playing]
That's a schlager.
Hit music, European hit music.
Schlager is a German word
that simply means "hit song,"
it was more based on melody.
It's just different from English
and American pop music.
I don't think there is an album
we ever made
that doesn't have
an element of schlager in it, you know.
[narrator] ABBA retained some of the
melody-driven sentimentality of schlager,
but when they hit the stage at Eurovision
what the world heard and saw
was something entirely new.
Because it used to be people dressed up
in tuxedos and evening gowns
singing some ballad
or some kind of very perky little ditty,
and here comes ABBA
with their glam rock costumes
and a kind of rock song.
Like nothing that
had been in Eurovision before.
- [announcer] Watch this one.
- ["Waterloo" playing]
My, my ♪
At Waterloo, Napoleon did surrender ♪
Oh, yeah ♪
And I have met my destiny
In quite a similar way ♪
And we actually won it.
- [audience applause]
- Sweden's "Waterloo" sung by ABBA.
And the next day they were famous
all over the world.
Boom.
Waterloo ♪
I was defeated, you won the war ♪
Waterloo ♪
Promise to love you forevermore ♪
The reaction in Sweden to ABBA's
Eurovision win was kind of mixed.
You know,
If you talked to the general public
they would say,
"Wow, that's great, you won!"
"Sweden has never won before!"
But we also had a very strange
cultural climate at the time
where people on the far left felt like,
"You know, this is just commercial music
that doesn't talk about politics
and the plight
of the ordinary man and woman."
"This should be abolished so we can
make room for real music. Complex music."
Well, it's
I don't really care anymore,
uh, but we did then.
[tense music]
[narrator] Sweden was resisting
ABBA's pop superstardom
because it simply didn't align
with their image of themselves
as a humble, socialist nation.
At least, not yet.
When I grew up it was more like,
"You shouldn't listen to ABBA,
they have too many hooks,
you can hurt yourself."
[energetic drumming]
[narrator] Speaking of hooks,
here's another Swedish writer and producer
who's worked with everyone
from Robyn,
to Lykke Li, to The Pretenders,
and even oddball American filmmaker
David Lynch, of all people.
Björn Yttling is behind
many poppy, catchy tunes,
like this one he wrote
for his indie rock outfit,
Peter Bjorn and John.
He's Björn, obviously.
[melodic whistling]
In the '80s, when my parents' generation
was looking down on ABBA,
we, uh, listened a lot to the radio,
we got all the UK and US artists.
But, um, ABBA,
we didn't take them seriously
and then they sold, like,
50 million records
and we still didn't take them seriously,
but we liked some of the songs. [chuckles]
[Ola Håkansson]
It was when the outside world
told us how great ABBA were.
For example, I remember Elvis Costello,
he had a concert,
everybody loves Elvis Costello,
when he said, "I'm going to perform
one of the best songs I know,
it's an ABBA song,"
everyone was like, "Oh, yeah?"
"That cool cat is doing an ABBA song?"
"They must be cool."
So, it changed because of that.
Now you can actually say
that you like ABBA, so it's it's good.
I like it. [laughs]
["Dancing Queen" playing]
[Benny] When someone
from a little country like Sweden
have a worldwide success,
with what they do
it makes everyone understand,
"Well, if they can do it, we can do it."
Don't you think?
You can dance ♪
You can jive ♪
Having the time of your life ♪
Ooh, see that girl ♪
Watch that scene ♪
Digging the dancing queen ♪
[narrator] Eventually, Sweden came around
to embrace ABBA's success,
and it would inspire other Swedish bands
to follow in their footsteps.
It would be those groups
that would lay the groundwork
for today's biggest
international pop stars.
[narrator] After ABBA's reign,
the landscape of pop music was shifting.
Rock was dominating the charts
and it was going to take a rock band
to be the next group from Sweden
to make a mark internationally.
That brings us to 1989.
The next Swedish moment
in the globalization of Swedish pop music
was Roxette.
[narrator]This is Ola,
a professor who literally
wrote the book on Swedish pop music.
[bell dings]
Roxette's success in the late 1980s,
it started in Sweden because
they had had domestic success
and they started
exploring international opportunities,
started to sing in English
rather than Swedish, for example.
[narrator] Remember how Benny told us
that ABBA decided to sing in English
instead of Swedish at Eurovision?
Well, there's a reason they could do that.
[Ola] People in Sweden's capacity
to speak English is very high,
and that's pretty foundational,
that in order to be somebody
in the global pop music
you've got to be able to speak
and sing in English.
And they did have some success
in doing so.
But the big breakthrough was coincidental.
["The Look" by Roxette playing]
One, two, three, four ♪
So, the story about Roxette
becoming a big, global superstar
was based on an American exchange student
in Sweden, Dean Cushman.
He heard the band in Sweden,
where they were successful,
and he brought it back to the US
to his hometown, Minneapolis,
and simply introduced it to a local DJ.
That was back in the day when DJs
actually chose music themselves.
And that DJ thought this song
was really good, it was "The Look."
- She's got the look ♪
- She's got the look ♪
She's got the look ♪
What in the world can make
A brown-eyed girl turn blue? ♪
When everything I'll ever do
I'll do for you ♪
And I go la la la la la
She's got the look ♪
[Ola] And it went from that DJ
then to other DJs.
More and more radio stations
played the song
and it played well with listeners,
it became a number one hit,
and they were successful for many years.
People loved it.
That's that's the key thing, of course.
If it wasn't a good song,
it wouldn't be a hit.
Loving is the ocean
Kissing is the wet sand ♪
She's got the look ♪
- She's got the look ♪
- She's got the look ♪
- She's got the look ♪
- She's got the look ♪
[narrator] This might seem obvious
but that level of success in America,
the biggest music market in the world,
is the benchmark
for any small country like Sweden.
If you're already a small market,
you have to go outside your market.
Especially in music, I think,
if you have the chance.
[narrator] Ola Håkansson did manage
to find success outside Sweden.
With his first band, Ola & The Janglers,
followed by his new wave outfit,
Secret Service.
He then went on to start his own
record label, Stockholm Records,
with one huge goal in mind.
If there is another ABBA in Sweden,
I will try to find it.
And, um we didn't find ABBA
but we found like
ATeens, Stakka Bo, Cardigans.
It was really nice,
it was a fantastic journey for us.
[narrator] Reaching the heights of ABBA
is certainly a tall order.
However, in the early ‘90s,
there was one group
with a new and fresh sound
that were primed to do just that.
Okay, Popmusik:
How to write
catchy and memorable pop songs
just like the Swedes.
Here we go.
Keyboard, check.
Step two, simple chord progression.
Step three, get to the chorus quickly.
Step four, some, uh notes here.
Step five gets a little more complicated.
Step six I don't get.
And Oh, my God
Okay, you know what,
maybe this analogy doesn't work.
You want to know how to make a song
downright Swedish in its memorability?
I'll try to explain.
Unlike ABBA and Roxette,
Sweden's next major export wasn't steeped
in some early, cheesy, schlager tradition
it was born on the dance floors of Europe.
But like those bands,
they had a focus on melody.
[gentle piano music]
In the early ‘90s, Ace of Base
had no shortage of hooks in their music.
But there was still
something they were searching for.
One day, this vinyl comes
and we started to listen to it
and after the first twenty seconds
we heard,
"This is the rhythm we want."
"This producer is exactly the one
we need for the band."
"Who is this guy?"
Finally, we found out it came from SweMix,
so we decided to visit SweMix.
SweMix was an extremely small
record company,
it was more like a DJ organization.
Gave him a tape and asked him,
"Can we give it to the producer?"
His name was Denniz PoP.
Well, my name is Denniz PoP.
This is a true story, and this is how
faith, luck, timing,
everything comes in together.
I got a cassette sent to my house,
saying, "Please listen to our demos
and, um call us."
"Ace of Base."
I took the tape and, uh, put it
in my car stereo and it got stuck,
so every time I drove in that car
I kept hearing the same song.
So, he had to listen
to our demo tape every day
going from and to the studio,
listen to our songs.
So, when we called him, he said,
"You really have something here."
"I want to work with you guys."
Three weeks later, we were in the studios
and we started to work
with "All That She Wants."
She leads a lonely life ♪
She leads a lonely life ♪
When we were nearing the final version
of "All That She Wants,"
every day we experimented with rhythms
and then we went to a club,
played it, and checked how many people
started to dance with it.
If it was some part
that people didn't dance as much,
then we knew we had to change that part
or that stop,
so we could live, every night,
test the song, without vocals.
We wanted to have songs that worked
both on the dance floor and on radio,
with the same version.
Just lying on the beach
And having fun ♪
She's going to get you ♪
All that she wants is another baby ♪
She's gone tomorrow, boy ♪
All that she wants is another baby ♪
[narrator] It was important to have a song
that played well in the clubs
because Eurodance
was a massive genre at the time
in Europe.
But it wasn't in the US.
The music style in the US
was more soul, R&B
So, the biggest band
at that time was, uh, Boyz II Men,
so there was nothing
like what we were doing.
The rules, what you can do
with Eurodance, were much wider,
there was nothing you couldn't do
compared to rock and roll or reggae.
But in Eurodance, everything was allowed.
I remember Jonas and I,
we borrowed Denniz PoP's car,
we drove up to a lake,
we just opened up the door,
it was a warm summer night,
put on the song, instrumental,
and we basically the whole night
just listened to the same song.
And we just heard and felt,
"This is it, now we have the sound."
At the same time Denniz PoP
playing the song,
testing it in the dance floor,
and actually he fills the dance floor,
everybody goes bananas.
That's without the lyrics,
which is quite cool,
that actually they just started to dance.
[narrator] Meanwhile,
the members of Ace of Base
weren't the only musicians that wanted
to collaborate with Denniz PoP.
I knew that this
incredible producer, Denniz PoP,
he was doing Ace of Base,
Dr. Alban and Leila K,
which were some of my favorites.
And then I met him in the other room,
next to this room, by the way,
and he was cutting the second single
for Ace of Base.
And he was half lying
in this chair with his cigarette,
and then I was really nervous
and I was playing my stuff.
In this meeting, he was doing this
with his cigarette in my Coke can
and I was so excited
because it sounded good, he was happy.
So, I was drinking from this
and it's dark around my mouth,
totally black, you know, with his ash.
And I was like
And suddenly he pressed stop and said,
"Are you drinking from that can?"
I said, "Yeah!"
"Don't, I used it as an ashtray."
"I know!" You know? [laughs]
He later said something that,
from that day on, he just knew
he would never get rid of this guy,
this guy will be with him forever.
So, when we released first
"All That She Wants" and then "The Sign,"
it worked very well everywhere.
In Europe, in Asia and also in the US.
I think it was the biggest debut album
for many, many years.
The success of "All That She Wants"
brought Denniz PoP on the world charts.
They started to sign up other producers,
and so forth, and that became Cheiron.
[Ola] When Ace of Base
became a worldwide phenomenon,
all kinds of artists
and record labels in the US
suddenly descended on Stockholm,
they all wanted a contract with Cheiron
for them to produce and record
and write for their artists.
[narrator] And the first band
to be sent from the States
to record with Cheiron Studios,
was a then unknown group
from Orlando, Florida.
["I Want It That Way” playing]
Yeah ♪
You are my fire ♪
The one desire ♪
Believe when I say ♪
I want it that way ♪
[laughs]
We had no expectations when we showed up.
You know, we were a bunch of young kids
and it was like, "Let's go to Sweden
and work with this guy named Denniz PoP."
It was a little strange, I'm going to say,
not knowing what to expect,
but we were young, we had a record deal,
and we wanted to be pop stars.
- Tell me why ♪
- Ain't nothin' but a heartache ♪
- Tell me why ♪
- Ain't nothin' but a mistake ♪
We walk into Cheiron,
it was small, it was dark,
we called it "The Dungeon."
But it didn't matter what it looked like,
we went there to work.
When I was downstairs with Denniz,
you know, cutting vocals,
- Denniz would say, "Okay, take it again."
- [snaps]
- "Take it again. Take it again."
- [snaps]
And it was like they were
looking for that magical melody
that you just can't stop singing.
I want it that way ♪
- Tell me why ♪
- Ain't nothin' but a heartache ♪
Tell me why ♪
Denniz PoP, he was like,
"The music should not be boring."
Everything that he did
should be fun to listen to.
His strength was definitely
to take away and minimalize the songs.
This one makes me glad or happy
when I hear it.
If that's the case, we just do it.
If I'm bored, just don't do it.
I mean, it was very simple,
but really, really good.
No matter the distance ♪
I want you to know ♪
That deep down inside of me ♪
You're taking a DJ guy
putting tracks together,
with infectious melodies over top of that,
that are four and five and six
and seven-part harmony,
with a group like the Backstreet Boys,
and it makes magic.
[narrator] Before long,
Denniz PoP was attracting
some of the best young producers in Sweden
to come work at Cheiron.
When you think of Cheiron,
you think of a team.
I was one of five guys that had the chance
to listen and watch these guys go to work.
I think I was probably the first of us.
Denniz asked,
"Do you have any place to be?"
And I said, "No."
"So, come to Cheiron, you can sit here."
So, that's how it started.
I shared a studio with you guys, right?
- Yeah, number two.
- Number two studio.
I don't know,
it felt a bit magical, actually.
Not not these guys maybe,
but the place.
[laughs]
No, but for me, it was a magic place.
[Jake] Everybody helped
each other as well, with songs,
and got really good tips
and got mentored in a perfect way.
Denniz was limited
from a musician's point of view.
I mean, he knew maybe three chords?
- He had this DJ background.
- Two?
Two chords maybe?
I mean, when you're an educated musician
then you can use all your fingers
to play piano.
But when you're not,
you're like me and Denniz PoP
and some other guys,
we can only use three.
So, this is a hit rake.
Hit kratta in Swedish.
So, you can put it down
and it sounds good? No.
[piano keys ring]
No And it's like, "Oh! That sounds good."
[riff from "Baby One More Time"]
You know, I'll never forget
getting one of our first singles
and opening it up,
and on the back of the insert
was a little picture of this blonde girl,
and it said, "Hit Me Baby, One More Time."
And I was like, "What's this?"
[tapping]
- [clock ticking]
- [tapping]
- [school bell rings]
- ["Baby One More Time" playing]
Oh, baby, baby ♪
Oh, baby, baby ♪
Oh, baby, baby,
How was I supposed to know ♪
That something wasn't right here? ♪
Oh, baby, baby ♪
It was like this girl
coming from the States
and everybody was focused
on getting songs for her.
"Do you have songs?"
"Who's got songs
for a girl called Britney?"
Everybody's like, "We got songs for her."
The Cheiron Studio did, what,
six songs in nine days with Britney?
Yeah.
We had no idea that it would
be so big, though.
- No.
- Who could have known?
My loneliness is killing me
And I ♪
I must confess I still believe
Still believe ♪
[Jörgen] When we worked with her
we realized how professional she was,
and how hard she worked.
I mean, she stood
in that little singing room for
I mean, day in, day out.
And she just
delivered, delivered, delivered
We had hopes, you know, that
Because the A&R guy said, "Yeah,
you'll get your first gold record,"
and I said,
"This might be a Top 40 record."
When the album was released, we got a call
and he said, "You know where
the Britney album entered on Billboard?"
And I said, "Cool, is it in the Top 40?"
- And he's like, "No, number one."
- [men chuckle]
And it was like, "What?"
How you want it to be ♪
Tell me, baby
'Cause I need to know now ♪
Oh, because ♪
[narrator]With Britney topping the charts
and the Backstreet Boys well on their way
to becoming
the biggest boy band of all time,
Sweden found a roundabout
way to pop superstardom.
Instead of exporting pop superstars,
they were generating
globally recognized producers
and those producers
were importing the talent.
- Everything changed after that.
- Yeah.
There were quite a few artists
like NSYNC, Celine Dion, and Bon Jovi.
It was like a perfect playground
to do music.
[narrator] Despite starting to attract
some of the biggest artists in the world,
Denniz PoP made sure Cheiron
was still a fun place to work.
I think that was part of the secret,
not just making music but being goofy
and doing all those kind of things.
And it's easy to forget how
important it is to actually play around.
Denniz could scream,
"Time for computer games!"
and everyone came out, like insects
from a log in the woods,
you know, like "Yeah!"
crawling this, exactly here.
Up here, and I think this door
has so many injuries
because you wanted to be first in
so you were literally crushed in here,
like, "No, it's me!"
And then it wasn't, it doesn't matter
if it was a singer in Backstreet Boys
or Celine Dion
or Britney Spears or whatever,
you don't care, you wanted your seat,
there was only four seats.
And those years I recall
as the absolutely top years
of my life so far,
you know, so much fun.
[narrator] In 1998,
just as Cheiron was cementing itself
as the go-to hub for pop writing
and production,
things took a tragic turn.
Yeah, I mean, Denniz got sick
just about the same time
that the Britney thing happened, I think.
[Jörgen] Yeah.
- [Jake] Like November.
- Yeah.
October, November, or something like that.
[sombre music]
[reporter in Swedish] Denniz PoP,
or Dag Volle, his real name,
was 35 years old.
He died on the 30th of August,
after a long struggle with cancer
You know, when we
got wind of Denniz it was, um
I think that was, um
I hate to get emotional, but it was, um
it was hard.
And when you have a taste of success,
you think you're on top of the planet,
and when you hear news like that
it kind of brings you back home
to the things that are important in life.
I think Denniz PoP
had so much energy in life
that it was still here after he was gone.
You know, he didn't take the energy away,
he left the energy.
I think we went on for two years, right?
Or something.
We wanted to finish what we started
and, you know, in his memory as well.
I don't think he would've wanted it
to just shut down.
- No.
- So, we we finished up.
I think Cheiron was a school
for the people who were there
and I think we kind of graduated
and flew out.
We kept to the principles
of what was happening there:
discipline, work hard but also have fun,
all those kind of things.
Maybe we turned into little mirror images
of him and his ideas, you know?
Almost every person that shook his hand,
he changed that person's life,
Man or woman. You know, they
People came in, they met him,
worked with him
and life changed for the better.
And now it's just a memory.
This is just a memory lane today
[clicks tongue]
but a fun one.
[melancholy piano music playing]
[sombre piano music playing]
Behind many of the seemingly joyful
pop hits coming out of Sweden,
there's always been
something darker going on.
An element of melancholy.
Even ABBA's "Waterloo"
was about surrendering to a relationship
that you didn't necessarily want to be in.
Maybe that's what
makes these songs so appealing.
There's something a little more complex
than we tend to give them credit for.
That hint of melancholy that you can
hear in Swedish hit music, if you will,
mainly comes from our living conditions,
the fact that we live in this dark,
cold country way up north.
[narrator singing]
'Cause I want it that way ♪
"I want it that way."
What does that mean?
Speaking of lyrics that don't make sense,
how about this?
Hit me, baby, one more time
"Hit me, baby, one more time."
The writer apparently meant it
to be "hit me up on the phone,"
but he trimmed it so that the lyrics
fit the melody.
So, it just became,
"Hit Me, Baby, One More Time,"
a title so scandalous
that even the record label
had to trim it to be
"Baby One More Time."
It's Britney, bitch.
[riff from "Baby One More Time"]
The importance is not what the lyrics say,
but rather that it flows neatly
within the particular song.
Which is actually what we did
in the beginning, even with ABBA.
The music always comes first.
You have the music
and then you add words to that.
English is our second language,
so we simplify the language.
More than two-thirds of the world
doesn't speak English.
When you simplify lyrics,
it's very easy for a Japanese to sing,
"All that she wants is another baby."
But so many things
that are lost in translation,
they become something that is so iconic.
Like, what is "I want it that way"?
[laughs]
Like, which way do you want it?
I mean, at the end of the day, who cares?
Because it was always about the melody,
and I think that's why
some of those songs still stand today.
[narrator singing]
Hit me, baby, one more time ♪
And those curious
and maybe controversial lyrics
had another consequence,
they were memorable.
And the Swedish songwriter that wrote them
and countless other mega pop hits,
well, we've seen him before.
Well, my name is Denniz PoP.
Nope, not Denniz PoP.
This here is Max Martin.
[Per] Max started
as a singer in a rock band
that was signed
to the Cheiron record label.
Well, not metal singer but it was
like a heavy rock kind of thing.
But Denniz instantly
recognized Max's talent
and he got him to hang around the studio
for a couple of years
to learn all the skills.
He was working day and night there,
he never went home.
He was sleeping
under the desk, I heard. [chuckles]
You know, when we met Max,
he had a cigarette in his mouth
and he was just leaning over the board
and he was like [growls]
just kind of growling
and doing his thing.
And I heard stories
about Max being tossed in
and Denniz would say, "Figure it out."
And Max figured it out.
[narrator] With the mentorship
he received under Denniz PoP,
Max Martin very quickly started
making a name for himself.
When I started high school,
I got really into pop music
and started to look up
who made those songs,
and every song was made
by the same guy, Max Martin.
I became kind of obsessed with him
and his music
and started to listen
to everything he'd done.
I actually sent my demo
to the Cheiron Studio.
When I met Max Martin the first time,
like a year ago,
he was like,
"Oh, maybe I'll listen to your demo now."
[chuckling]
I mean, it's like,
I hear a song on the radio
and I just know, I just know,
and I'll Google who wrote it,
and it comes out of Max's camp.
And it's very hard
to stay on top of your game
for even as much as a decade.
But Max Martin in particular
has been able to do so,
becoming one of
the biggest songwriters of all time.
[narrator] It's hard to oversell
the impact Max Martin has had
on popular music.
As a songwriter, he's topped only
by John Lennon and Paul McCartney
for the most number one hits of all time,
including "It's Gonna Be Me" by NSYNC,
"I Kissed a Girl," Katy Perry,
"My Life Would Suck Without You,"
Kelly Clarkson
I can't read all these,
it's going so fast.
But I read them ahead of time.
Okay, Taylor Swift, The Weeknd,
Timberlake, got Ed Sheeran in there.
Those are all number ones,
so, okay Max has worked with everybody.
With the legacy of Cheiron Studio
firmly entrenched
by the success of Denniz PoP
and Max Martin,
perhaps this spells the end of Sweden's
supremacy in global pop music.
[sombre piano]
It doesn't, I was just being dramatic.
There's more.
Just as Denniz PoP took Max Martin
under his wing,
sharing his knowledge and insight,
Martin saw the same promise
in another young, Swedish musician.
Okay, long story shortish.
So, at this time I've been
hanging out in Max's studio
for, like, maybe six months,
something like that.
Just watching him work
and making coffee, and stuff like that.
And then I had to go on tour
with my metal band
and on that tour, backstage in Austria
I wrote the riff
Diddle dee dee dee
Diddle dee dee dee ♪
Then I came home with it,
to Stockholm, and showed it to Max
and he was like,
"Yeah, that's pretty fucking hooky."
"Maybe you should make a demo of it."
And I made a song out of the riff
and then I played it to Max
and he was like,
"Yeah, this sounds great."
And then Pink was supposed to come
and write with him
and I was supposed to still just,
like, make coffee and watch,
but he was like, "Hey, Pink, here's a song
Johan did the other day, want to hear it?"
She was like, "Yeah!"
And he played it to her,
and she wrote all the lyrics
and everything in like thirty minutes.
And I was like,
"What the fuck is happening?"
And they recorded it
and I was like, "All right,
so I have a song with Pink now."
And that ended up being
her first single of that album
and it went number one,
like, all over the place,
and then I was like,
"All right, I guess I have a job now."
["So What" by Pink playing]
Na na na na na na na
Na na na na na na ♪
Na na na na na na na
Na na na na na na ♪
I've written for artists
like Taylor Swift, Adele, Maroon 5,
Justin Timberlake,
now I'm forgetting people,
but I think maybe that was good. [laughs]
Fuck, this is the weirdest part.
All right, I'll try.
And, uh, I've had ten fucking
Billboard number ones.
[blows raspberry]
That was very un-Swedish!
[laughs]
Maybe we can cut that last one out.
So, so what?
I'm still a rock star ♪
I got my rock moves
And I don't need you ♪
[narrator] After finding his own success
under Max Martin,
Shellback and his friend Julius Petersson
wanted to give other emerging producers
a lowkey opportunity to hone their skills.
They brought this idea to Max,
who quickly came onboard.
That's when we created the Wolf Cousins,
the publishing company,
and we signed these people
and a month after we signed the deal,
there was like a radio number one out.
It was actually insane.
I think the first one was "Problem"
with Ariana Grande,
and then "Love Me Like You Do,"
Ellie Goulding.
It was crazy.
It reminds me of the stories
I've heard from Cheiron.
Crazy Swedes, just having fun,
but also, like, working so hard.
It feels kind of like
history repeating itself.
[E-Type] Can you hear
the typical Cheiron sound
in the Wolf Cousins' productions?
I believe that's still the same theory,
of, like, if it bores you,
something is wrong.
Exactly. Denniz PoP.
I'm going to give him a little tour.
This is Studio 1,
which Max Martin and Denniz PoP
were actually working.
When Denniz was going home in the evening,
then Max Martin came.
I heard it was not so big,
but didn't think it was
going to be this tiny.
No.
‘Cause, I mean, where did they all fit?
Like when the Backstreet Boys were here?
There was no sofa, nothing.
Just two chairs
and then the rest have to stand.
[both chuckle]
[narrator] From a cramped
basement studio in Stockholm,
Denniz PoP and Max Martin
had forever changed the role
of writer/producer in pop music.
And now, instead of
importing American stars to record,
Sweden has begun
exporting their producers to Los Angeles
in order to work with the talent there.
And one of those award-winning exports
is Laleh.
I started as an artist and a songwriter,
and right away I noticed that,
first of all, all the producers were guys.
[chuckles]
And I love guys, I'm not against them,
but it's just so weird being a young girl
going into the studio
and there's four guys looking at you like,
"What do you want to write about?"
You know? You kind of feel a little off.
So, I was like, "I don't want that,
I want to write from my heart
and be comfortable."
So, for me it was really important
to learn to produce music
and actually become an engineer
before I even do anything else.
And that's what I'm trying to do
when I work with other artists,
because I've been in that situation,
I'm always saying,
"We're gonna write the song
that nobody else wants to write,
we could write about that."
Stone cold ♪
Stone cold ♪
You see me standing
But I'm dying on the floor ♪
[Laleh] That's when
we write amazing songs,
like for Demi we wrote "Stone Cold,"
I produced it as well,
all her fans love it, and she loves it.
You can notice
that she loves singing that song
'cause she was
such a big part of writing it.
And I gave her that moment in the studio,
I was like, "Let's pause," you know?
God knows I try to feel
Happy for you ♪
Know that I am ♪
Even if I can't understand ♪
I'll take the pain ♪
Give me the truth ♪
Me and my heart
We'll make it through ♪
There's an imbalance here,
so we need different perspectives,
not that one is better than the other,
but to get different types of songs
you need different types of people
involved, you know?
[narrator] With artists like Laleh
breathing much needed fresh air
into the music industry,
the future of Swedish writers
and producers is as bright as ever.
But we kind of knew that already.
What I still want to know is
why they're so successful.
There's probably a lot of theories
as to why we're successful,
but I think we just work hard.
We just kind of want to
show what we're good at,
not talk about what we're good at.
[narrator] Wait a minute,
that sounds a lot like what Ludwig said
at the very beginning.
Maybe there's something to that.
In fact, almost everyone
has been reluctant
to talk about their success.
But why?
We have something called Jantelagen
which is very special in Sweden.
Jantelagen,
however you would translate it,
"the law of Jante."
You should not think
you are better than anybody else.
That you should not go out
and tell the world how great you are.
[laughs] I feel it in my body,
I don't want to talk about
the people I've worked with
because it feels so un-Swedish.
It's not very becoming to brag, is it?
Especially if you don't have to.
For producers
I think that's a great thing.
Let the artist be the artist,
we're okay with being in the background.
It's nothing you're taught in school
or your parents teach you,
it's just the way
of Swedish, like, living.
It's not a real law, by the way.
[chuckles]
You can't get punished for bragging.
Oh, my God, we're back again ♪
[narrator] So maybe that's it.
The reluctance to talk about their success
could be a big part of why
they're so successful in the first place.
It would explain why they
were resistant to ABBA's fame at first
and why it took Elvis Costello
to tell them ABBA was cool.
That's why it took an American
to take Roxette to America,
and why when Cheiron started breaking
all the biggest pop stars in the world,
they were happy to let them
take the spotlight
and let the music do the talking.
[laughs]
You know,
the funny thing is that as an artist,
you do get all the accolades.
People see your face.
When it's all said and done
and it's all mixed and it's out,
those guys that created that special sound
kind of sit in the background.
I became an artist because I had a chance
to work with some of the very, very best
that we still call the best today.
We thought that this sort of
"Swedish music wonder," so to speak,
would last for maybe a couple of years
after us, but it's been going ever since.
It's going to keep on, I think,
because we know we can do it.
The Swedish boys and girls
know that they can do it too,
because it's happened before
and it will happen again
and if you're not in it, you can't win it.
["Everybody (Backstreet's Back)"
continues]
Because we got it going on again ♪
I hope it will.
But I don't know if
it's specifically Swedish.
Could've been the same thing
in Denmark or Holland or
Don't you think?
If this had happened in I don't know.
I don't know.
The future of pop music may be unwritten,
but you can bet the Swedes
are gonna play a big role in writing it,
mixing melody and melancholy,
penning pop history with their own
unique version of English.
This isn't my room, by the way.
[chuckles]
"I want it that way. I want it"
That still bugs me, I don't
I want what what way?
He's even saying, "Tell me why
I never want to hear you say,
I want it that way."
"‘Cause I want it that way."
What?
What is "it"?
Maybe "it" is something pretty bad.
Okay, let's back it up.
So, they want the same thing,
but this, oh, is a bad relationship