Coded World (2019) s01e04 Episode Script

I'm Anjan Sundaram
and I'm a journalist, author
and mathematician.
I left mathematics because I didn't feel
like math was connecting me to real life,
real people and the real world.
That has all changed.
Algorithms have changed it.
Now I see math
touching all aspects of our lives,
because today,
algorithms are everywhere.
We're using algorithms
to influence what we do.
Algorithms have become
such a part of people's lives.
Social media in the beginning
was about connecting people.
And now it feels like
it's bringing us apart.
Corporations, governments,
computer systems are now watching us.
AI is replacing people's work.
We can't ignore
the algorithms anymore.
Algorithms might sound like
something complex
and they do amazingly complex things.
But what they are
is actually quite simple.
An algorithm is
a set of instructions to follow
to achieve an end,
whether that end is to solve a problem
or make a decision.
Basically it's a recipe.
And as we look towards the future,
I want to know how
these mathematical recipes
will fundamentally transform
essential aspects of our lives.
In tomorrow's world,
how will we love?
Do you think this is the future of love?
Yes.
How will we work?
How will we play?
Oh no!
Can code change
how we experience our past?
You can ask him any questions
about his life.
Before, during, and after the war.
Hello.
Hi. How are you?
Can algorithms even change
what we will become in the future?
Yes.
It's crazy.
-Isn't it great?
-How do you even think about doing this?
This is completely nuts.
We often hear about how AI and algorithms
will alter the workforce of tomorrow.
For some people, the future is now.
It might not always be about
losing our jobs to a machine,
but that we don't really know
who we work for anymore.
So what's it like to work
for an algorithm day-to-day?
Is this the future of work?
-Amjad?
-Yes, sir.
Okay, thank you.
I'm taking a ride
with Amjad Mohd Hussain,
a freelance driver in Mumbai,
who works for an Uber-like app
and service called Ola.
I want to know what it feels like
to be judged and controlled by code.
Amjad may not know
what an algorithm is,
or that algorithms make apps
and software work,
but he knows that his boss isn't human.
And pretty much from when
he gets in his car to when he clocks out,
an algorithm is deciding
almost everything about his workday.
Okay, take care.
In the future, will the algorithm care
if we complain?
Will it care about how we feel?
Algorithms are built for efficiency,
so the taxi driver may be right,
the algorithms that
control his work can be heartless.
But can we turn this around
and use code to make us care?
Can algorithms manufacture feelings?
Music is all about feelings.
Now for some people,
music is also all about algorithms.
Algorithms have been used in
electronic music creation for decades
but the algorave movement
is much more recent.
Algoraves are events
where coders use algorithms
to generate live original music,
projecting everything they are doing
out in the open,
so people can see how this music
is being created by math.
And it is possibly the future of music
because they are rewriting the rules
of how sound is made.
How would you define an algorithm?
What does it mean to you as a musician?
As a musician, it's basically
a system to work with,
so something like scales.
Those are algorithms in their own sense.
It may have become a buzzword now,
but everything we know is based on
of some algorithms of some sort.
Abhinay is a passionate local leader
in the algorave movement
and he is trying to grow
the scene in Bengaluru.
He has organised an algorave
happening later tonight,
but first, he has invited me
over to his house
to show me how he is changing music.
Play me some music
that is made by an algorithm.
Okay. So if we have a beat like
So, you just made that with your hands?
-Yes.
-And now?
I'm going to code something
that creates exactly like that.
So every sound here has a code,
-has a symbol in the programming language.
-Yes, exactly.
We are sort of building
our own instruments,
which let us modify the instrument
as we are playing it.
Modify the instrument itself,
not just the sound.
Not just the sound.
You're hacking not just music,
you're hacking the musical instrument.
Itself, yeah.
You can break the barriers of physics
and make things possible that
are not actually possible in this world.
We can go into the internals
of the system itself
and change how it's supposed to behave.
So they're not just mixing
and sampling existing music.
They're converting everything to code
so they can play with it,
and make a new kind of music
we haven't heard before.
But the real test will come at the rave.
Can this code make music
that people enjoy,
that makes us dance,
that resonates like a favourite song?
Seeing them break down the music
into code, equations and math,
how do you feel about that?
The thing that intrigued me
most about this
is the fact that
it's being done on the spot,
and you can go right or wrong.
That makes me appreciate
the music much more.
It's not as easy as it looks.
Do you think it's changing
your perception of code?
Yes, actually a lot.
It's like something
I never thought could be done.
Maybe this code enables everyone
to make sounds,
but are all these people
actually musicians
or just coders who want to be musicians?
Thank you, everyone,
for listening and coming to this algorave.
Do you consider yourself
more a musician or a coder?
Musician.
It's an instrument on its own.
That's how I look at it.
Anybody can make music.
Most people think that
they have to learn about music.
It's like this elitist tradition that
you can't have access to.
Do you see yourself some kind of
democratiser of music, of code?
It does democratise it.
One of the biggest things
with algorave is
we want people to be involved
because it's open-source.
It's like you want people
to use the code.
You want people to be sharing ideas.
You want people to see it.
Take my code and remix it.
That's the idea.
That's kind of the point, right?
You're opening the hood
to show how the music is made.
Exactly.
There was some weird stuff there.
A guy wearing a sensor cap,
it's all kind of so cool!
And when I asked the algorave organisers
what they thought about it,
they said, "Well, it's all data,
and that's their vibe,
so they're part of the movement."
Hey, guys, it's raining hard.
Next up is Khoparzi,
so please give it up
for the great algoraver from India.
That was perfect.
I think the music was richer
and more complex
than I had imagined previously.
I guess what's interesting is that,
for me, mathematics
is the universal language.
And music is also a universal language.
So this is a marriage of two
universal languages
that humans have at their disposal,
and that's so beautiful.
This is the future of music,
there's no doubt about it.
You're hacking into
the very source code of sound,
and there's no limitations anymore.
But are algorithms themselves
truly limitless?
They seem pretty smart,
but sometimes smart isn't enough.
What else do they need to learn?
And what can they learn playing games?
There are a lot of things
that we do quite naturally intuitively
like playing ping pong.
I'm tracking the path of this ball,
the spin that's on it,
and deciding how to move,
all kind of simultaneously.
It's all almost in one motion
that I take for granted.
And a lot of these human functions,
we're starting to try to encode these
and decipher them through algorithms,
and through equations.
I'm curious to know
how far we've gotten,
how closely we can mimic
human movements, human actions.
To find out, I'm going to play a game
against a robot, and an algorithm.
Alberto Rodriguez is a scientist
and the lab director for MCube,
the manipulation
and mechanisms laboratory at MIT.
He's using algorithms to teach machines
to master both intelligence,
and the sensitivity of touch.
He believes this brings the world of code
a step closer to the world of humans.
The key skill to play Jenga is dexterity,
it's tactile perception.
But it's extremely complex
for robots to master that skill.
For those who haven't played Jenga,
this is a highly competitive sport
in many families.
It requires sharp motor skills,
and to win,
you have to make multiple decisions
based on what you observe and feel.
And that is what this robot
is learning from us.
I've never played Jenga.
-So my first time playing Jenga
-Oh, really?
-is going to be with the robot.
-I see.
There you go.
I almost want it to win.
-It's moving the whole set.
-Yeah.
There you go.
-Now it has realised that it has lost.
-Oh, no!
Is there an equation that describes
the decision-making of the robot?
The math behind it doesn't necessarily
feel like an equation.
It's more like an algorithmic search.
It's a process by which it's trying
to map where it feels right now
to where it has experienced in the past.
-So there's a kind of memory.
-Yes, exactly.
To some degree, all machine learning
algorithms are a version of memory.
So to play this game properly,
the algorithms need to be able
to understand and interpret
the physical sense of touch,
be smart enough to remember
what worked best before,
and then combine that information
to decide what to do next.
Most robots, if not all robots,
are doing repetitive motions, right?
So, they're great at doing exactly
what they're told to do.
And this robot is not doing that.
This is such a human skill,
to be able to touch sensitively.
And why is it so important for robots
to mimic what we can do?
Hands are the key way
in which we interact with our world.
We have these great tools and
they're connected to a great brain, right?
I never thought about hands that way,
but yes, it makes sense.
That's one of the things that
makes us different from other beings.
The moment that we get machines
to be able to reach out
and touch the world with confidence
is when we will be able
to get them to do things
that are relevant to us
that we don't want to do.
The skill here
is not to play Jenga, right?
The skill that we're going after
is the ability to learn
how to interact with an environment.
But the key technology is the learning
algorithm that makes it possible.
In this case, playing is not all about
winning or even the game.
It's about helping code
understand the physical world.
It was different from
everything else I've seen
because it felt like another sense.
It was less about the mind,
the abstract thought.
As these algorithms
learn more and more
about how to process thought
in the physical world,
I want to know what comes next.
Can they help us start solving
some of tomorrow's problems today?
The people at the IBM research lab
in Bengaluru
believe they can do just that.
They are using artificial intelligence to
revolutionise what farmers do in the field
with something called
precision agriculture.
It's a farming concept
based on observing,
measuring and responding
to the environment
and how it affects crops.
Farming isn't always associated
with big math and big data
but now it looks like this will be a step
towards protecting our future.
Ranjini, what are we looking at,
this map and data?
We've developed a very rich
big data curation platform
which you're looking at now.
We ingest terabytes of data every day
from radio satellites across the world.
We have the capability to take in
even the drone data, the sensor data,
-and even social media data.
-Right.
Then we have the radar, and
the weather stations all over the world.
Then we have airplane sensors.
It gives us not only historical data,
but also forecasts so that we can tell
what's going to happen next in the farm.
And so, taking all that data,
what can the algorithms
do specifically that humans
are unable to do or imperfect at?
These machine learning algorithms
can recognise patterns
across big chunks of data,
across time and space.
For a human being to do that,
it's going to be very hard.
What prompted your research team
to develop this kind of system?
Climate is changing, the rains
don't come as they would.
So, we will tell you
when it's going to rain
and that's the best time you have to sow.
And we will tell you
when is the best time to harvest
or when is the best time
to put in fertilisers or pesticides.
We also enable the farmers with apps
to take pictures of the plant.
If he zooms in on a leaf and says,
"Oh, there are some brown spots here,
let me take a picture."
It gets uploaded to our cloud
and then the image analysis algorithm
runs through them and says,
"This looks like this disease."
It must be hard to get farmers to change
their minds because they must say,
"I know this land, I know"
Yes, there is an acceptance curve
that comes into the picture.
They may be apprehensive.
But they are able to see
the changing dynamics,
and they want to do something about it.
Given all the problems we're facing,
climate change and
food insecurity in the world,
do you think the algorithms
will solve the problem?
Yes, it's definitely a step
towards that direction
because Earth's not expanding.
We're not going to have
more and more arable land,
because the population's growing.
We need to make do with what we have,
so the land that we have
needs to be nurtured,
needs to be taken care of,
needs to be preserved.
And precision agriculture
is precisely trying to do that.
Do you see the algorithms
and the machine learning tools
replacing the farmers in some way?
No, they're not replacing the farmers.
They are helping them.
They're enhancing
their decision-making capabilities
to improve harvest quality.
This is especially needed in India,
where they are facing
a crisis in agriculture,
with farm productivity
that is substantially lower
than the world average.
If something isn't done,
farmers will be forced
to leave their land,
and move away from farming
as a livelihood.
And after being in
the sterility of the lab,
so removed from the world
where farmers work,
I feel the need to get out
into the fields,
to see where this artificial intelligence
will take effect,
and meet someone who might be
helped by this code in the future.
Chourappa, what do you grow
on your farm?
Are you having problems with farming,
especially in recent years with regard
to the climate and things like that?
Is it becoming more difficult
to farm nowadays?
Do you understand
why the rains are not on time
and why the patterns are changing?
He pointed out that
climactic patterns are changing
and he can't quite discern
those patterns anymore.
And so, he's lost a bunch of crop here
because he made a mistake
or he didn't judge the climate right.
And so, he's aware that he needs help.
Some researchers are developing software
that will monitor how wet the soil is,
what kind of seeds to grow,
how much water to put in,
that kind of thing which will monitor
your land for you, using satellites.
Do you think this would help you?
It's interesting that technology
has over decades and centuries
changed our climate and the knowledge
that farmers have been handed down
is no longer as useful as it was before
and so the farmers are, in a way,
forced to turn to new technology
that is now coming in the form
of artificial intelligence and software,
satellite images,
and all of this has become necessary
in order to farm tomatoes.
So one of the oldest,
most ancient of professions
and basis of knowledge,
have in some way, become obsolete
and dependent on technology as well.
My worry is that this technology
might be imposed upon farmers.
And so we enter a world in which
government, scientists and software
are farming,
and the farmers themselves are left out.
And that could be dangerous.
So it looks like, for the greater good,
we might sometimes
have to give up control to code.
But I wonder, can we also learn
to control the code
for our individual benefit?
Can algorithms change
what we will become in the future?
Some say brain-computer interface
is the future of human AI fusion
and is the path to us becoming
one with the machines.
I want to see if big math can turn me
into a better version of myself,
and help me exercise
new skills I don't now have.
Anjan, are you ready
to move something with your mind?
I can move something physically
with my brain?
Yes.
Tan Le is the founder of Emotiv,
one of the leading companies
in the field of brain computer interface.
Her company is known
for this wearable neuro-headset
that uses algorithms
to recognise thoughts,
and then convert those thoughts
into commands,
so that you can control virtual
and real objects with your brain.
The idea with this is
it's a machine learning algorithm
that just learns what your brain
looks like when you're just hanging out
and being normal.
You don't have to think about
anything in particular.
-That's the baseline.
-Okay.
So now, let's add a command.
Let's say
I want to lift, I want to levitate
-an object. Yeah.
-Levitate?
-I've dreamt of this since I was a kid.
-Okay.
This is great.
Now I'm going to put this
in your hands,
and then I'm going to put this
five-channel EEG onto your head.
So that should be good.
In theory, if this works, I could move
things around my house using my brain?
-Yes.
-The ultimate couch potato.
That's right!
We're going to start first by
training a neutral signal.
Open your eyes, just be relaxed.
It's training me to be zen.
Yes.
Cool, calm, and collected.
It's just calibrating, okay.
Great. Now, just imagine
flying this with your mind.
This is what I used to watch in cartoons.
Yes, me too.
Okay.
When I turn this on,
it will take your command and it'll fly.
This is not possible.
Well, let's see.
If you can get into the brain zone.
I can't even
This is just not possible.
It did it for a second.
So the idea of the fleeting thought,
you can't have one
because it won't allow you
to move anything.
Oh my goodness!
I got distracted, I think so.
-It requires me to really focus.
-Yes.
The machine learning algorithm
doesn't know anything.
It just knows what you've trained it.
It's going to try and find
that pattern again.
The force is with you.
-Yes!
-That's so cool!
Well done!
It's crazy.
-How do you even think about doing this?
-Isn't that great?
This is completely nuts.
I now officially live in science fiction.
I can move a physical object
with my mind.
What is your purpose?
Why are you developing this headset?
Our brain is an analog system.
And what we want to do
is we want to create technology
that allows everyone
to be able to take this analog system
and interface
with the digital world as well.
What you're seeing here
is a real-time trace of the EEG signals
that's coming out from your brain.
There are billions of neurons
inside your brain.
When they interact,
there's a chemical reaction
that takes place.
That emits an electrical impulse.
So what we're doing is
we're just tapping in,
tuning into those very subtle changes in
electrical fluctuations from your brain.
That's where the signal processing
meets the algorithms
-in the machine learning.
-Exactly.
The algorithm is deciphering
all these signals
and trying to figure out
when I'm saying move forward or back.
Exactly.
But if you're controlling something
using my thoughts,
then I'm a bit scared about
what I could think.
Yes. The thing is, the thought
has to be very intentional.
You have to really,
really think that singular idea.
It has to be a very specific pattern
because you're essentially training
a machine-learning algorithm
to recognise a very specific thought.
So the way you trained it
is very, very important.
Do you worry about this kind of thing,
though, of where this technology could go?
It worries me on some level.
Yes, I mean
At least with this technology,
it's completely non-invasive.
So you have to be a willing participant
unless someone coerces you
to have it on your head, right?
But imagine if it was a technology
that is invasive in the future.
-Implanted in our brain?
-Yes, implanted in your brain.
The potential is really incredible
in terms of what it can do,
but at the same time
there is a responsibility
for people who create this technology
to steward the technology
in a responsible way.
Okay. So, yes, that does sound
a bit worrying
and as this technology progresses,
we might really have to think hard
about where this takes us.
But I have to admit that right now,
I'm just having fun.
It feels so powerful.
It does feel powerful.
I'm not moving my hands.
I'm used to using my hands as tools,
-Yes.
-and now my brain is a tool.
It's like a new sense.
It's like I can see, smell, hear, talk.
And this is like my brain has
a seventh sense or something like that.
That you can actually control,
wilfully control.
What struck me at Emotiv
was the fact that
the machine was able to read
into those quite random patterns,
specific commands,
like move the helicopter up.
I thought that was kind of spectacular.
It almost felt telepathic.
I was doing it
at a distance of one metre.
I was moving this helicopter up,
but what if I could move objects
a kilometre away.
The possibilities are crazy.
It's the kind of superpower
you dream about as a kid.
Where this could go in the future?
I kind of wonder what these machines
are going to be like in our lives,
and if they're enhancing
my capacities as a human being.
But you don't always need a super power
to be happy in the future.
Sometimes, all you need is love.
And sometimes, we need more
than a little help from our friends.
I've just experienced what code can do
when it taps into my brain,
but what can it do
when it taps into my heart?
Might algorithms be better than us
at finding true love?
More than half of the marriages in the
world today are arranged marriages.
But in India, that number
is closer to 90%.
Marriages arranged by
matchmakers and families
are an integral part of Indian culture
and it doesn't look like
that's changing any time soon.
But something is changing.
Artificial Intelligence
is now infiltrating
one of the most
traditional customs in India.
Is it working?
If you ask Manoj and Archana,
the answer would be yes.
They got married recently
after being matched by Betterhalf.ai,
a new matrimonial site
powered by algorithms.
This is more than just swiping right.
And this is possibly the future of love.
How did you guys decide
to get on Betterhalf?
How did you start to feel that
something's different about this?
Do you feel the algorithm is like a person
who got to know you,
and you got to know them,
you kind of trusted the algorithm?
Couples in India have trusted others to
arrange their marriages for a long time,
but in the future, it looks like
we will now trust code to do the job.
That is definitely what happened
with Manoj and Archana,
who only decided to meet
after Betterhalf.ai
pronounced them a good match.
So why did this work?
What is the AI doing
that's smarter than us?
Pawan Gupta and Rahul Namdev,
two MIT alumni,
started Betterhalf.ai in 2016
because they believe that data
is the key to successfully predicting
the chemistry between two people.
What do you guys think love is?
I think love is a mix of rational
and irrational things,
like feeling love at first sight
or some people fall in love.
So we do not have control on that.
But having said that,
on the rational part,
there is a great optimisation
that you can do.
I started looking into
what kind of trait symptoms
in terms of emotional compatibility,
in terms of social compatibility,
in terms of intellectual relationship
values and physical compatibility.
What kind of aspects I'm looking for
in my prospective life partner.
I started thinking,
why did I not think about it earlier?
In the past,
traditional matchmakers in India
have used the stars and horoscopes
to help match people
beyond basic criteria
like caste, complexion,
height, language and income.
Algorithms learn
from the experience of the masses,
and Betterhalf taps into
social network data,
compatibility research
and information gathered from
over 100,000 married people
in 23 different countries
to find out what really matters to people
in their relationships.
All of which makes me wonder
if their algorithms can help me
find my future love?
What pose do you want?
The first time
you're asking someone out.
I'm going to be sexy.
Or thoughtful.
Mysterious.
Now that I've nailed the look,
it's time to feed the algorithm
the bits of data it needs.
Rahul is going to walk me through
the crucial process
of answering 16 specific questions
that Betterhalf has come up with
in order to help the algorithm
define who I am.
This is where the questions starts.
Okay, this is where the AI
-is starting to get to know me?
-Yes.
I go out of my way
to help someone in need.
This is such a biased question.
Everyone's going to say that
I go out of my way, right?
But what if I lie?
You can lie.
I often find myself getting into fights.
Who's going to say yes to that?
-See if you are honest with yourself.
-Actually it might be true.
It might be true.
I can look other things
from other people's point of view. Yes.
I dream of having romance
in my future relationship?
What a dumb question is that.
You can answer.
Excellent sense of humour.
I'm a social butterfly. No.
I have an urge to plan
everything out beforehand? No.
I rarely feel insecure
about myself? That's not true.
You are considered to be a physically fit
person by my peers?
I'm not sure what my peers think of me.
I'm not going to help you here.
These questions may seem basic
or even random,
but they are based on Betterhalf's
collective relationship data.
And in India, where traditional values
still often dictate who people marry,
these answers may help the AI
find more genuinely compatible matches,
and help people break out
of the traditional boundaries
that have restricted
arranged marriages in the past.
I'm calm and composed
even in difficult situations?
It depends on how difficult.
I'm done.
I'm finished off in style.
And it looks like the algorithm
has taken pity on me and found me a match.
Conveniently, it's with Priyanka,
here at their office.
I think it cheated!
-This girl's Priyanka.
-Oh, hey!
How's it going?
What we are giving you is a direction,
based on a huge number of data points,
now it's up to you to accept it.
I had a really fun day.
And here it almost seems as though
what I began was a relationship
not with a person, but with an algorithm.
I thought what was cool
was that the code and the questionnaire
was designed
knowing that I will lie
and be dishonest in my answers.
It's a dishonest relationship.
But from that dishonest relationship,
the algorithm can glean the truth
about who we are
or enough of the truth to be able
to match us with a potential partner.
Maybe that's the future of relationships.
We're going to be connecting
through the mathematical layer
to the essence of who we are.
If algorithms can be used
to distil us to a love profile,
then can algorithms also be used
to help us define our personal history?
To more honestly share our past?
I've come to the University
of Southern California's
Institute for Creative Technologies
to see the future
of how history will be learned.
And to find out how
I might be remembered in the coded world.
So, I can interact with him
as though he's a person?
Yes, you can ask him
any questions about his life,
-before, during, and after the war.
-Interesting.
To interact with him, we say, "Hello."
Hi. How are you?
I'm good.
Is it okay if we ask you some questions?
No, I don't mind
answering any questions.
The Dimensions in Testimony project
was first created
so that people
never forget the Holocaust.
Holocaust survivors
have been telling their stories for years,
but unfortunately
with the passing of time,
they won't be around to tell us
their stories personally anymore.
Dimensions in Testimony
helps to answer the question
of who tells survivors' stories
after they're gone.
When I was caught
and taken out of the bunker
and taken to the guards
and shoved into the wagon,
together with my family,
I was convinced that was the journey
that I was going to go to death.
I'm going to have a conversation
with a virtual holocaust survivor
named Pinchas.
The ability of these holographic displays
to answer random
and not just scripted questions
is where the algorithms come in.
Are you happy to be here today?
Yes, I am. Very much so.
-Look at that.
- I'm very happy that you're here.
My god!
To make this work, they have to
interview the survivors for days on end,
asking thousands of questions,
so that the algorithms have enough data
to draw from to create their responses.
USC created a proprietary
natural language software
that enabled the interaction to begin.
And since then, we have moved into
Well, I prefer the term "machine learning"
because there's a lot of human labour
that does go into it.
So, even though it is an AI component,
it wouldn't give enough credit to the team
that is working behind the scenes
to train the machine
to learn from the interaction.
This process is what will allow
people in the future
to speak with people from the past.
He looks like he's listening to us.
I know.
How do you feel about
being part of this project?
I think this project
is very, very important.
It is important because
you will be able to not just
read or see the testimony of people,
whoever does this will be able
to engage with individuals
who are there
and who know what happened
on a personal level.
It's kind of eerie and surreal in a way.
It feels like there's a real person there.
Yes, that's exactly what
it's trying to mirror, for sure.
-It's so human, right?
-Yes.
Do you have any brothers or sisters?
I had a twin sister.
Do you remember your twin sister?
What I remember about my sister
are actually three things.
But I can't conjure her up.
It is all to do with her hair.
She had two little plaits.
I would go rush behind her
and I would pull them.
I would give her a fright.
I remember that.
The human layer beneath it
is just so powerful and so authentic.
Being able to interact with them
and talk to them and hear,
not only just about
their experience during the war,
but knowing that they had a life
before and after.
It can build a level of empathy
that sitting and watching a movie
may not do for you.
You're able to connect with him
on a deeper level.
In some ways,
this feels to me like a second survival.
He survived once.
And now he's somehow
going to survive again
and survive for maybe an eternity
or a really long time.
Yes, Pinchas' great-great-great grandkids
will be able to talk to him
far into the future.
How cool would it be for me to be able
to talk to my great-great grandfather
or my grandparents?
Great grandparents, people I didn't know,
but I've heard about.
But for me to be able to talk to them
and hear them answer me,
it would completely change the way
that I relate to history.
Yes.
Do you think having Pinchas will change
the way future generations of human beings
relate to human history?
I think it enables people
to see themselves through it,
and suddenly they feel like
they could be in his shoes.
Thank you, Pinchas.
You were really helpful.
Thank you for coming.
I feel like I'm going to miss you.
Sam Gustman is one of the people
responsible for making this all work.
He believes these algorithms can be used
to advance the age-old tradition
of oral storytelling.
One of the best ways people
are able to learn and communicate
is the way we're doing right now,
where they talk face to face,
because for hundreds of thousands
of years, we've communicated like this,
but we've only had reading
and writing for 5,000 years.
I guess I feel some
relation to what you're doing.
Me, as a journalist, I've gone to places
like Congo and Rwanda
and I try to bring testimony back,
but I'm the intermediary.
What I see you doing,
you're bringing those witnesses,
those people, those participants
in those conflicts
directly to the audience.
We're just trying to create
this three-dimensional relationship
where you can feel like
you can go out and touch the person
and feel like you're having an interaction
with a real live person.
Are you trying to make
these people immortal?
Absolutely.
You're trying to preserve the past,
but you're trying also in the future
to have history be taught
and experienced in a different way.
Yes, so that the history that
we've captured doesn't happen again.
I've always been kind of suspicious
of history and who writes history
and where it's coming from,
even when I'm writing my books.
I'm reluctant to put in pieces of history
because you just never know
who's written it.
I guess being with Pinchas,
it does raise the prospect
and the possibility in the future
of learning history first-hand.
And that's incredibly exciting
to people like me.
We can understand
what actually happened.
In the future, if algorithms actually
do allow us to converse with the dead,
then not only will it change
how we share our collective history,
but it might also allow all of us
to have a digital afterlife
where we leave behind
almost living, digital ghosts.
I just see the world changing.
And I think we're at an inflection point
where these ideas,
which have been around for a while,
are now turning into reality.
What we've opened here is a lens
on all the conversations on the Internet.
We need algorithms,
but it's not set in stone
how those algorithms work.
It's a totally different way
of perceiving the world.
We're changing how we relate
to the physical world, to our environment.
The laws that govern
my freedom in the physical world
haven't yet been encoded
in the virtual world.
And so, virtual Anjan,
I think, is less free.
I don't have to do whatever you say.
I have my own free will.
What does this mean for our connection
between man and machine?
I start to wonder,
from here on, will I ever be alone?
I still believe it's possible
to change the world we live in
for the better using computers.
The world of code offers so much hope to
some of the poorest people in the world.
It is mathematics at its most beautiful.
We don't know what we will create,
but it's not us versus the algorithm.
That's kind of what I've begun
to understand about algorithms
and about codes,
being on this journey.