Investigation Alien (2024) s01e05 Episode Script

[unsettling music playing]
[indistinct chatter]
[Knapp] I sent Doug to Council Bluffs
to try to get real physical evidence
of a UFO crash,
so I can put a nail in the AARO report,
which claims that nothing
of that kind can possibly exist.
So, I've been dying to hear
about the Iowa trip.
- [Laux chuckles] Oh boy.
- What'd you run into?
So, I went out there,
and I met with Mike first.
He took me to the exact location.
He said it occurred
in a park by this lake.
He was with his spouse
at the time, with Chris,
and said that they saw
an object fall from the sky,
and then they investigated.
And when Mike arrives there with Chris,
there's what he described
as, like, molten lava.
And he collected
some materials from the source,
which I have. I'll show you.
- Okay.
- [Laux] If you can take a look at this
- It's like slag.
- [Laux] Yeah.
I mean, it's really hard.
I couldn't break this if I tried.
Now, I took a magnet to it,
and parts of it are magnetic,
so that too kinda threw me off
'cause it's not completely iron
if it's iron.
But on the elemental table,
there's only three natural,
like, resources that are magnetic
that come from the Earth.
Iron's one of them,
but the whole thing is not iron.
So I'm like, "Okay, is this an alloy?"
Like, how did this get there?
- You put me in contact with Darrell
- [Knapp] Right.
And he said,
"This is not from outer space."
"I'm telling you, I did this."
What's his explanation?
What was he doing out there?
There's the Union Pacific Railroad
based in Omaha,
so a lot of people work for the railroad.
Some of his buddies had taken
this thermal welding kit
Right.
They went out
to this location in the park,
havin' some beers, put it on the hill,
same hill that Mike
and Chris were talking about,
ignited it, and it was
like a free fireworks show for them.
Wow. So there was something in the sky
that was fallin' down.
Darrell says that he caused it to happen
from the ground up,
not the other way around.
[Knapp] We really need
to do proper testing
on both of these possibilities.
Is this extraterrestrial material,
or is it a hoax?
We'll find out.
- [sounds distort]
- [music fades]
[unsettling music playing]
[Knapp] I sent
the Council Bluffs materials
to Garry Nolan at Stanford for analysis.
So, while we wait for the results,
I'm headed out to meet
some explosives experts in Texas
to see if they can prove
whether or not the alleged hoaxer's story
that the UFO sighting was actually
the result of a thermite explosion
is a viable explanation
for what the witnesses experienced there.
So, consider the context, the AARO report,
all those thousands and thousands of cases
have now been swept away
with a wave of a magic wand by AARO,
saying, "There's no evidence
any of them are unexplained."
"They're all, um
They're all effectively debunked."
But the debunking theories
rarely get tested.
I've debunked my share of cases.
I think there really is something to it.
But I try to put both sides
to the same level of scrutiny
and see what's left at the end.
[intense music plays]
- I'm George Knapp.
- Pleased to meet you. Jake.
I'm Sean. Nice to meet you.
Nice to see you guys in person.
We've talked about some of the details.
I thought we'd go over a bit of it now.
This Council Bluffs story.
There aren't many cases in the whole world
where you've got actual physical material
that allegedly fell from a UFO.
So it's important for us to figure out,
could this material be explained
by thermite being exploded on the ground?
And if not, then it remains
a legitimate mystery.
Yeah, we've worked with thermite,
normally in the form of grenades
and some other methods,
not traditionally with welders.
But it's not hard for us
to recreate a welder, as we have done
based upon research
in the railroad industry
and thermite welders.
So we're gonna set up a test scenario
to see what kind of plume we can get
and see if this scenario
actually is feasible.
The original incident happened in winter.
The ground was covered by snow.
We'll get some ice
to try to replicate that.
- Let's blow some stuff up.
- Absolutely.
[music fades]
So, here is our thermite welder.
It is basically a container
with a ceramic liner to resist the heat.
And it's full of thermite.
Five pounds, to be exact.
[Knapp] And this is similar
to what rail workers would use
to weld tracks together?
[Jacob] Correct.
It's the exact same ratio,
same compound. There's no difference.
It's difficult to ignite thermite.
Not something you can take a match to it,
and it will kick it off.
You have to melt down the aluminum
to finally react with the iron oxide
to finally get this going.
But once it gets going,
nothing's gonna stop it
except burning it out or smothering it.
So normally you'd point it downward
to have the slag go downward.
- But we're pointing it upward.
- Correct.
[Knapp] This is a really important case.
It's one of the few in UFO world
that has multiple levels of evidence
at a time when AARO,
the Department of Defense,
is trying to discredit
the entire UFO subject.
So it's important we do everything we can
to make sure this case holds up
in the face of the hoaxer's recent claim.
- Ready?
- [Knapp] Yeah.
All right. Firing in three, two, one
There we go.
[dramatic music playing]
[music fades]
So that's it, right? It's over.
Oh yeah, that's it.
[Knapp] It did shower
some sparks up there.
How high do you think that went?
Twenty feet?
[Jacob] Tops, yeah. About 20 feet.
I'm just trying to imagine how,
under what circumstances,
people could mistake that,
which was pretty cool,
but it's not as spectacular
as what the witnesses said they saw.
Yeah, this is not very spectacular.
It looks cool.
It's basically a fireworks show.
[Knapp] It looked like a Roman candle
that you'd set off on the 4th of July.
Nothing like what was described
on the night back there
in December of 1977
when it supposedly could be seen for
a long distance and was way up in the sky.
[Jacob] All right.
So here we can see
all the slag that ejected,
very small bits where it congealed,
and there's most of it right there.
The Council Bluffs slag that we got,
we've got several pounds of it.
This is not much slag at all.
No, it would have had
to be way more thermite,
way past the feasibility
of just one guy that said,
"Yeah, I got a bunch of thermite,
and I lit it off, and it was cool."
Like, we're a professional setup here,
and this took a lot of work.
To just simply say, "I managed to get
thermite from a railroad and fire it,"
that's getting into
a little bit of a stretch.
[dramatic music subsides]
[intense music playing]
[Knapp] Just heard from Dr. Garry Nolan
at Stanford University.
He's got the results in.
He's ready to share that with us
about this material from Council Bluffs.
We gave him a huge sample of slag
from this incident.
So we're hoping he can tell us
the chemical composition,
how it was probably created,
and where it may have come from.
And that would go a long way
in our counter report to AARO.
Dr. Nolan. Garry. How you doing?
- I'm great. How are you?
- [Knapp] Good to see ya.
So, Council Bluffs.
- We shared some material with ya.
- Right.
You're familiar with that case
and what happened.
Tell us what you found.
Sure. I took three samples
from the sample you gave me.
And the sample you gave me
was like this big. It was
- You know, it was huge.
- Yeah.
What I'd noticed was that
the sample had a lot of bubbles in it.
And so when I tapped one of them,
uh, it was clearly hollow.
And I thought,
"This would be a great place
to get one of the samples from
on the inside
because it had been untouched
for 50 years."
So the principal materials are
titanium, magnesium, aluminum,
silicon, and iron.
It was incompletely mixed.
Depending on where you looked,
you got different amounts of iron
and titanium or aluminum or silicon.
So what it tells me right out of the box
was that it is the result
of some kind of industrial
or, uh, um, intelligent process.
But, you know, one of the things
that had always bothered me
was this notion that this was thermite.
Right.
The most common thermite is actually
a mixture of rust and aluminum.
Uh, the rust is the oxide.
It provides the energy
for burning the aluminum.
But there were
no aluminum oxides in the material.
So that basically completely blows
out of the water
any idea that this was thermite.
You know, we're still left with a mystery.
We don't know what it is.
Have you seen any that is an unobtainium,
a an undiscovered element?
Would you expect
to see one from these cases?
Or is it more like that,
since they've been here a long time,
they would also use earth materials?
Yeah, why not?
I mean, they don't need to go
to Alpha Centauri
to make, you know, a steering wheel
because you've got the stuff here.
Can you make a guess
why this stuff would be dripping
out of a craft, if that's what it was?
I mean, pure speculation,
but maybe it's the result
of a process gone wrong,
and it needed to be dumped overboard.
I mean, there have been
plenty of instances of UAPs
that have been alleged to have been seen
that look like they're in distress.
And so that to me
That's that's a possibility.
The Council Bluffs materials
is not a smoking gun.
We don't know who made this stuff or why,
but it is still an open, viable mystery.
It's not quite enough
to counter the AARO report,
but there are other types of evidence,
including mass sightings,
that would push back
against that AARO report
to suggest that nonhuman intelligence
is real, and it's here.
[eerie music playing]
[Knapp] Mass sightings seen by hundreds
or even thousands of people
at the same time
could provide the sort of undeniable proof
of nonhuman intelligence
that I need for my report,
if they can be validated.
Mass UFO sightings are true anomalies.
They don't happen very often.
My personal opinion is we only see 'em
when they allow us to see 'em.
Sometimes we get these brief glimpses.
It seems like a show of force maybe.
Maybe it's meant to inspire us, to show us
what technical capabilities are out there
that we haven't achieved yet.
If AARO is not gonna do the work,
if they're not gonna honestly tackle
these big questions,
then we're gonna have to do it
while there are still people
willing to share their stories.
[tense music playing]
[Knapp] In 1954, a soccer match
in Florence, Italy,
came to a complete standstill
when the 10,000 spectators
and the players on the field
all noticed strange craft
hovering over the stadium.
Part of a wave of sightings
all across that country.
Then there's the Belgian wave
that began in 1989 and lasted into 1990.
Thousands of people across Belgium watched
two F-16s chase a massive triangular UFO
over the course of an hour
and fail to intercept it.
But perhaps the most significant
mass sighting of all time
happened in the heart of one
of America's largest cities,
the phenomenon
known as the Phoenix Lights.
[reporter 1] A lot of folks are wondering
what they saw in the skies over Arizona.
Was it a supersecret military aircraft
or visitors from outer space?
[Knapp] What happened in Phoenix was seen
by thousands of people,
and a lot of 'em got
photographic evidence of it.
[reporter 2] In 1997,
thousands of eyewitnesses watched in awe
as a boomerang-shaped formation of lights
cruised slowly and silently
over the city of Phoenix.
The Phoenix Lights case is huge,
both literally and figuratively.
Huge in the sense
of what witnesses described,
this gigantic boomerang
that some people said
was the size of three football fields.
[reporter 2] Witnesses thought these were
separate lights flying in formation
but quickly realized the lights were all
part of a single gigantic something.
And it's big in a figurative sense in that
it was such an overt demonstration.
Thousands and thousands
and thousands of witnesses.
It lasted for hours.
[reporter 3] This is one
of several home videos
recorded that night last March.
A few say they saw the lights
as far as 100 miles north from Phoenix
Many more saw them over the city.
There were a lot of attempts
to debunk the Phoenix Lights case.
You had the governor of Arizona
making a silly statement
with somebody dressed in an alien costume.
And now I'll ask Officer Stein
and his colleagues to escort the accused
into the room so that we may all look
upon the guilty party.
[crowd laughs and applauds]
[Knapp] You had the military.
At first, they said,
"No, we don't have anything in the air.
That wasn't us."
And a couple of days later, they said,
"Oh yeah. We had some flares up there."
"Some A-10s were dropping flares.
That's what people must have seen."
Which is wholly unacceptable
as an explanation
for what people witnessed and videotaped.
But it seemed to have worked
because 37 years later,
this case is pretty much forgotten,
swept under the rug.
I want to find out and expose
how that happened to AARO
and to the public.
They need to understand
how the truth about nonhuman intelligence
is concealed to this day.
[tense, rhythmic music playing]
[Knapp] I've got leads
on witnesses in town
who saw how their stories
are discounted and dismissed.
And it's motivated them to share
their stories and to keep this case alive.
They swear that what they saw that night
was a real nonhuman craft.
And many believe
this was not a one-time event.
It's happened many times over the years.
Tom King is an example.
He was here when it happened
and says that some of the same orbs
and things we're seeing in association
with this giant boomerang
are still in the skies over Phoenix,
and he's got video of it.
- How you doing?
- Tom King. Good to meet you.
[Knapp] A lot of times,
people become obsessive
and they'll record
everything that's in the sky,
every bird, every plane, every satellite,
every balloon, and call it a UFO.
So I'm interested in
what Tom King has been doing,
and want to take a look
at what he's caught on tape.
Well, this is like the bridge
of the Enterprise in here.
Yes, I call this, um, the UFO lab.
I have 4K cameras that are looking
north, south, east, west,
and I have an all-sky camera
looking at the entire sky.
These are on the roof.
They're weatherproof,
and they can survive the Phoenix heat.
They'll go up to about 158 degrees
before they're gonna shut down.
Have you ever added up
what all this cost you?
Or do you not want to know that number?
- It would be a very nice Ferrari.
- [chuckles]
A very, very nice Ferrari.
[Knapp] It's not shocking
for me to learn how much Tom invested
in his UFO monitoring operation.
These kinds of things affect us.
Once you realize
that there's something else out there,
that we are not alone, I mean,
it really shakes you to your core.
It did me.
I call this the green tube.
It's like a neon electric.
It has its own light it's giving off.
- Pulsating.
- Yeah, it's not reflecting the sun.
I could have a PhD in skywatching.
As many years as I've done this,
I've never seen nothin' like that.
You ever seen anything like this
in all your cases?
No.
This is one of the most interesting videos
I've ever captured.
It was shot just last year.
So this is one of those
white orb type objects.
What we're looking at here is, uh
I used a software called Keonova,
and I used it to trace the flight path.
So what happens is
it does this racetrack pattern
where it comes down,
does a half a circle,
and it repeats that twice in this video.
It's not a bird.
That's too high to be a bird.
This is up about
twice as high as the planes
either taking off from Sky Harbor
or the planes coming in for a landing.
In fact, the whole area here
is Class B, uh, airspace.
There's a plane
for visual reference right now.
And these objects are above these planes.
This just blows me away.
It goes bounces off that part of the sky
and does a complete 180 turn, like that.
[chuckles]
[King] And now it's gonna go off
the way it came in and do another M.
- [Knapp] Yeah, that's very strange.
- So this is under intelligent control.
[Knapp] Tom's videos do bear hallmarks
of legitimate UFOs,
including signs of intelligent control
and the ability to move at high speeds
and rapidly change direction
without any visible means of propulsion.
Look at this object. It was gigantic.
It floated right over Phoenix,
right over a major international airport,
right in proximity
to a major US Air Force base.
And AARO is not even taking a look at it.
How does that make sense?
Let's talk
about the Phoenix Lights incident.
Tell me what you saw, how it affected you,
and why it's still relevant today.
That night we had an appointment
to go over to this man's house
named Steve Blonder.
He lived in South Phoenix.
This is the location.
- [woman] I wanna go home.
- [King] This is Steve right here.
We're sitting there talking,
and that's when
this double light comes up.
[man] There it goes.
[King] There's two side by side.
This is slightly different.
And then they started lighting up
one by one by one by one.
- [boy] There's another one too.
- [woman] Where?
[King] They're lined up in a pattern, man.
There's geometry behind this.
- [man] Yeah.
- [King] They're definitely moving.
This video got seen worldwide.
They said this is our town's Roswell.
This is the biggest event that's happened
in the history of this town.
We're still trying to uncover
what that thing was.
It's my plan to make sure
the boomerang can't fly
around here unchecked anymore.
- So if it comes back, you're ready.
- [King] Oh yeah. I'm more than ready.
There were attempts to debunk it.
The airport said nothing showed up
on radar that night.
They had follow-ups from reporters
who contacted the tower,
and they said
they didn't see anything on radar.
And everything is hush-hush from
Nobody wants to talk about this
on an official basis from the FAA,
air traffic control, and the military.
It's like, "Let's just pretend
this goes away by itself."
[Knapp] I am sympathetic
to the authorities
who are confronted
with something like this.
They don't know what it is.
I can see them trying to downplay it
because they don't want
the public to panic.
But talking with Tom and other witnesses,
it does seem there was a coordinated,
larger effort to get this story
out of the headlines.
To have the public not take it seriously.
That's sort of what AARO has been doing.
The report that they issued seems designed
to make Congress ask fewer questions,
to discourage the media
from pursuing this story. Same tactic.
So here's the obvious next step.
Reach out to some sources
and find out what they might know
about how much effort was put
into suppressing this story.
[energetic music playing]
[Armour] Since George is working
on his response to the AARO report,
he asked me to look at things
from a pilot's perspective
and see if the skeptics
actually have a case.
Through some of my pilot networks,
we were able to get in touch with Greg.
He was a helicopter pilot in Vietnam.
He flew F-15s in the Air Force.
And he even flew commercially.
And he experienced this firsthand,
not in the sky but on the ground.
And this guy has extensive experience.
He can give me specific information
on how this thing maneuvered,
what it did, what it looked like,
how big is it possibly.
- What did you see?
- Oh yeah. Okay.
It was just a
you know, a real pleasant evening.
My wife and I were driving back,
um, from a restaurant.
And then all of a sudden
she kinda looks forward in the windshield
and goes, "What are those lights?"
And she had some urgency in her voice.
And I kind of looked up, and I went,
"It's just a flight of fighters."
Because we were in that area,
under Luke's airspace.
- And there was formation?
- Yes.
And so But as soon as I went,
"Oh, it's just a flight of fighters,"
I immediately went, "Uh, no, it's not.
There's no anti-collision lights."
"There's no strobe lights."
- I'm going, "Man, it's quiet." Um
- [Armour] Mm.
"There's no harsh incandescence."
"Uh, so it's not a big airplane."
I could see it
sort of blanking out the star field,
and there was mass in between,
but I couldn't make out the shape.
- What do you think it was?
- [chuckles] I have no idea.
Do you feel like it's technology
that we would have?
Why would the military
devise a large radar-stealthy craft
and fly it over a population
For thousands to see.
with the lights turned on
to prove that it can be seen?
[Armour] Now, the military has
a lot of secrets,
and we could have created
some kind of stealth technology
that most of us don't know about.
Based on what I've heard,
this doesn't sound like this is something
that the military has or that's man-made.
People have said that night
there was a flare exercise.
Uh, it has been kind of
the primary distraction
from the Phoenix Light sighting,
uh, that the skeptics actively seize on
as, "Oh, that was flares."
But what I saw that night was not flares.
They didn't do anything real dramatic.
They just flew silently out of sight
on about an east-southeast heading.
- No parachutes.
- No parachutes. No smoke.
- No trail.
- No.
And they held a nice formation too,
as they went out of sight.
[Armour] In your aviation career,
you deployed flares?
Primarily, uh, in Vietnam
is where I did the flares.
- [Armour] Mm-hmm.
- Um
I had lots of experience with those.
We actually had a flare standby mission
where you're designated
the flare pilot for that night.
- The company would get troops in contact.
- [Armour] Right.
[Greg] And then they'd require flares
to illuminate the battlefield.
The other way I've seen the flares
is from the ground
because I was on a fairly small fire base.
- Right.
- And occasionally the NVA would attack us.
So I've seen the flares
being dropped above me.
- So you see the parachute.
- [Armour] Yeah.
[Greg] They're suspended,
and they sorta flicker
in a very distinctive way.
And then they're very hot magnesium tubes
when they hit the ground.
[Armour] I heard you'd never spoken
about this experience until now.
Nah, it was one of those like,
"I have no idea what I saw.
If I go describing something like that"
- They might ground you.
- Yeah.
[Armour] Right, yeah. I get it.
Now, I get why he was reluctant
to come forward after all these years.
Because as a person in uniform,
our reputation is everything.
Our mental health is everything.
I mean, his career was on the line
if he came forward.
Why do you think
this is your first time coming out?
The Phoenix Lights was an actual event.
This was a craft that flew over Phoenix.
And I wanted to be able to,
without having my face
blurred out or anything,
say that this happened,
and be a credible person
testifying to that.
After talking to Greg, he honestly had
a good answer for every single point
that folks have tried to use
to debunk what this was.
Which is exactly what George needs
to respond to the AARO report.
But what would be even better
is someone who saw this craft closer up.
And I'm hoping between George and myself,
we can actually find someone
who witnessed this from the air.
[energetic music playing]
[line ringing]
Hey, Peter. This is George Knapp.
How you doing?
[Davenport] George, hi.
Good to hear your voice.
For almost 30 years,
Peter Davenport has run NUFORC,
the National UFO Reporting Center.
It's a central phone base
that anyone around the world can call in
and report UFO activity.
On the night
of the Phoenix Lights incident,
his phones blew up.
One of the calls in particular
came from somebody at Luke Air Force Base.
I was gonna ask you
about that night, March 1997.
I was told that you talked to someone
at Luke Air Force Base,
uh, perhaps an aviator.
Do you recall that?
Yes. He was an Air Force airman.
And he said that they had intercepted
an object above Camelback Mountain.
And the reason he was calling
at 3:20 in the morning is because he knew
that they were gonna be ordered
to say nothing about this incident.
It was so strange.
- [static]
- [airman speaking]
[Knapp] What happened
after this intercept?
[Davenport] The two fighters returned
to Luke Air Force Base.
The airmen then raced around
to three points on the aircraft
to retrieve videotape.
He raced them
to an Air Force executive jet,
threw the tapes in the aircraft,
and that aircraft took off immediately
for points unknown.
[tense music playing]
Peter told me there is gun camera footage
recorded by a military pilot
who flew up close
to the Phoenix Lights object,
captured this footage,
turned it into higher-ups
in the Air Force.
That footage was never seen again.
Now, presumably,
AARO could get that footage,
could share it with Congress
and with the American public.
I am convinced they're not gonna do it.
Not unless we force them to do it.
Of all the cases that you've covered,
thousands and thousands of cases and calls
that you've had over 29 years,
this one stands out as an outlier,
I think, because it's
such an obvious demonstration.
This thing seems
like it wanted to be seen.
What do you make of that?
You know, in my estimation
it's the most dramatic UFO event
that I've covered in the 29 years
that I've run the hotline.
Now, I was getting calls from all over
the southwestern United States,
from Arizona, Nevada, Texas.
So those objects were flying
over a large area of the United States.
You said objects, plural.
There were either five
or six large triangles in the night sky.
The first call I got
was from a retired police officer,
and he described
several objects in a formation.
And it was more
than just one or two objects.
[Knapp] The deeper we get into this case,
the more astounding it is
that it was so quickly dismissed.
If it was a cover-up, it would have to be
wide-ranging and well organized.
One of the missing pieces
in the Phoenix Lights case is
what went on over the Sky Harbor Airport
during this event.
There are no FAA reports
or air traffic control reports whatsoever
documenting this thing ever happened.
And the only pilot
who was in the air at the time
who's come forward was actor Kurt Russell,
who kept it quiet for 20 years.
You guys saw a UFO, true?
- Yeah, it is true.
- [Kimmel] In a plane?
[Russell] So we're going into Phoenix,
and there's this bank of lights,
six lights in the shape of a triangle.
[intense music playing]
[Knapp] Fortunately, Tom King,
whom I met earlier,
was able to get me in touch with somebody
who worked at Sky Harbor Airport
during the Phoenix Lights
and witnessed the phenomenon,
his friend, Clive Christopher.
I heard a story about you.
- Yeah, I, uh
- You were a youngster, huh?
I was 15 years old, underage,
working at Sky Harbor Airport.
Got off of work, late,
uh, caught the Red Line.
And, lo and behold, there was these
It started off as two lights in the sky.
But as the bus turned,
and we got a better angle,
I was able to see five of them,
right as we were leaving the airport.
And we got off of the bus.
The entire bus,
all of us, got off and watched this.
Even the bus driver got off.
So, uh, this is right over the airport.
The left side of it
probably crossed over Terminal 3,
Um, but it definitely went
over the airport, and it headed south.
The big hole in the story,
this object was gigantic,
flying over Phoenix.
Some people say a mile across.
Something that big near the airport
should have been reported
by the FAA, by the tower.
Where are those reports?
We haven't seen 'em.
I'd be interested in talking
to the people who were working the tower
at the airport that night.
What they saw, what happened.
Who came knockin' on the door,
asking for tapes and radar returns
and things of that sort.
So when you go to work the next day,
is everybody talking about it?
The boss let us know right away,
"Be on your p's and q's."
"There's, you know, people in this airport
that you don't wanna get in trouble with,
and make sure
you're doing your job correctly."
So you think investigations were underway.
Some kind of outside presence was at the
I believe so.
Um, and not only that, I mean,
you didn't have to see
the Phoenix Lights to know that
federal agents, quote, unquote,
"men in black" stuff like that
'Cause they went around months afterwards
and were confiscating videos
and things like that.
Really? I would just think
something that big,
that close to the airport
would have disrupted flights.
One thing that I do remember
while looking,
I don't remember seeing
any incoming or outgoing airplanes.
It it's almost like
they were stopped somewhere.
So, I mean, unlike most UFO cases
that are just like that, and it's gone,
this one lingered.
It was like a demonstration.
There are beings
that are flying those things.
What are they trying to do?
Was it a message?
Was some kind of message being sent,
do you think?
Me, personally, I I kept seeing
or having experiences afterwards.
And almost everybody that I've talked to
after the Phoenix Lights
continuously has other experience
that have happened.
What kind of experiences you mean?
Not just sightings, something else?
Um, yeah. Loss of time, sightings.
I actually have a picture
on my phone here I can show you.
This is an event that happened
pretty much right here
in this exact area, so
It started seeing
a black military helicopter,
and it just flew across the sky,
caught my attention.
And then I was photographing
one of the BMX riders
who was at this track down the street.
I caught him in the first turn right here.
And you can see the black helicopter
in the clouds in the distance.
[Christopher] And he flashed right here.
There's one photo
- What the hell is that?
- I thought something flew off of him.
So I took three photos.
Here's the second one. Clear as day.
- There it is. Yeah.
- [King] What is that?
Black triangle,
no propulsion system that I can tell of.
It's got some
I don't know if those are windows
on the top or anything.
[King] It's got
almost a curved underbelly.
There's no FAA lights on that.
There's no strobe.
[Christopher] No taillight.
I don't know what that is.
[Knapp] It's not like a glitch
because it's in all three photos.
- And it's a different spot.
- [Christopher] All three photos.
So that happened on a Saturday.
From Saturday to Wednesday,
that place closes down,
but they reopen on Wednesday.
So I got video of it this time
'cause I saw it.
[Christopher on video] Here it comes.
A military helicopter circled
this area and that mountain
13 different times with a spotlight on.
[Knapp chuckles] Also sending a message,
I guess.
[Christopher] Here it comes again.
[Knapp] Clive says nearly every time
he sees UFOs, he sees black helicopters.
That story is consistent
through the long history of UFO lore.
Black helicopters show up
at the alleged UFO crashes,
cattle mutilation cases,
as if they are monitoring this.
The general public,
you tell 'em about black helicopters,
they think it's a conspiracy theory.
It's real. Those things happen.
Thousands of people have seen 'em.
Where are those reports?
You don't see that in the AARO report.
It's as if they don't want us to believe
that they're real,
and they wanna keep a handle on the story.
- Hold on.
- [blades thumping]
[tense music playing]
- [King] Hey, it's coming straight up.
- [Christopher] No, it's here. Here it is.
- [King] There's two.
- Where?
[King] There's one going back that way.
That thing is hauling. That is hauling.
- It's right above me.
- [King] It's right above us.
[Christopher] It's right above us.
[tense, rhythmic music playing]
[music fades]