Metal Evolution (2011) s01e06 Episode Script
Thrash
[ METAL MUSIC PLAYING ]
[ WOMAN SPEAKING INDISTINCTLY
OVER P.A. ]
Dunn: SO, WE'RE HERE
AT SOUNDWAVE STUDIOS.
THIS IS THE REHEARSAL STUDIO
WHERE MANY OF
THE BAY AREA THRASH BANDS
HAVE JAMMED FOR A LOT OF YEARS.
AND I'VE WANTED TO COME HERE
AND SEE IT FOR MYSELF
FOR A LONG TIME,
SO LET'S GO IN.
[ METAL MUSIC PLAYING ]
[ TESTAMENT'S "INTO THE PIT"
PLAYS ]
TESTAMENT.
THAT'S A GOOD START.
EXODUS.
[ MUSIC CONTINUES ]
EN VOGUE.
NOT VERY THRASH.
[ MUSIC CONTINUES ]
[ SINGING INDISTINCTLY ]
THRASH IS ONE OF THE FASTEST AND
MOST AGGRESSIVE METAL SUBGENRES,
AND FOR MANY PEOPLE, IT DOESN'
EVEN SOUND LIKE MUSIC.
EVEN FOR SOME DIE-HARD
METAL FANS, IT'S TOO HEAVY.
SO, HOW DID THIS EXTREME STYLE
OF MUSIC
GAIN SUCH A HUGE FANBASE,
PRODUCING SOME OF METAL'S
BIGGEST BANDS
LIKE METALLICA, MEGADETH,
AND SLAYER?
AND WHY DOES IT REMAIN SO VITAL
WHILE OTHER SUBGENRES
HAVE BECOME EXTINCT?
[ SONG ENDS ]
[ "THE TROOPER" BY IRON MAIDEN
PLAYING ]
YOU TAKE MY LIFE,
BUT I'LL TAKE YOURS, TOO
YOU'LL FIRE YOUR MUSKET,
BUT I'LL RUN YOU THROUGH
SO WHEN YOU'RE WAITING
FOR THE NEXT ATTACK
YOU BETTER STAND,
THERE'S NO TURNING BACK
THE BUGLE SOUNDS,
THE CHARGE BEGINS
BUT ON THIS BATTLEFIELD,
NO ONE WINS
THE SMELL OF ACRID SMOKE
AND HORSES' BREATH
AS I PLUNGE
INTO CERTAIN DEATH
OH, OH, OH, OH,
OH, OH, OH, OH, OH
OH, OH, OH, OH,
OH, OH, OH, OH, OH
[ METAL MUSIC PLAYS ]
Dunn: THRASH EMERGED FROM THE
UNDERGROUND IN THE EARLY '80s
AND WAS MUCH MORE EXTREME THAN
METAL STYLES THAT CAME BEFORE I
CONTAINING GRAPHIC LYRICS
ABOUT WARFARE, HUMAN SUFFERING,
AND EVEN SERIAL KILLERS.
BUT BEFORE I EXPLORE
THE EVOLUTION OF THRASH,
I WANT TO KNOW
WHAT KIND OF PEOPLE
WERE INSPIRED TO CREATE
THIS MUSIC.
WE WERE JUST LIVING OU
OUR TWISTED FANTASIES
THAT WERE ILLEGAL TO CARRY OU
IN REAL LIFE.
[ LAUGHS ]
IT'S NOT A DAY GOES BY
I DON'T WANT TO KILL SOMEBODY.
FORTUNATELY,
THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM
FROWNS UPON SUCH THINGS.
I'M ONE OF THE EASIEST-GOING
DUDES YOU'LL EVER SEE
HANGING OUT --
AND YOU KNOW THIS --
BUT YOU PUT ME IN TRAFFIC,
AND I'M -- DUDE,
I'M A DEATH-ROW CRIMINAL.
[ LAUGHS ]
AND I SAVE THAT -- THAT HATRED
AND APPLY IT TO SLAYER LYRICS
IN THE WEIRDEST WAYS, YOU KNOW.
Dunn: WAS YOUR EXPERIENCE
AS A YOUNGSTER FEEDING INTO
THE NEED TO CREATE FASTER,
AGGRESSIVE, INTENSE MUSIC?
I DON'T KNOW THAT WHAT HAPPENED
TO ME AS A KID
CAN DRIVE ANYBODY TO DO ANYTHING
BUT KILL THEIR PARENTS.
FOR ME, WHAT DROVE ME TO WAN
TO PLAY METAL MUSIC
WAS SIMPLY,
I JUST WANTED TOFIT IN.
I JUST WANTED TO BE
A PART OF THINGS.
MY NICKNAME IS A.D. DAVE,
YOU KNOW,
'CAUSE I'M,
LIKE -- I'M A LITTLE HYPER.
IF I'M STILL HYPERACTIVE
AT 45,
AT 16, 17,
I MUST'VE BEEN WHACKED.
I THINK A COMBINATION OF THA
AND THE ENJOYMENT OF PUNK MUSIC,
WHETHER IT WAS CIRCLE JERKS,
DEAD KENNEDYS, MINOR THREAT,
THAT JUST FUELS
WHAT I THINK I HAD ALREADY.
[ METAL MUSIC PLAYING ]
[ SINGING INDISTINCTLY ]
Kahn-Harris:
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT DEFINES
THRASH METAL IN THE EARLY '80s
IS A SENSE OF SERIOUSNESS,
A KIND OF AUSTERITY,
INFLUENCED BY PUNK.
NOT NECESSARILY ALWAYS
BY THE MUSIC OF PUNK,
BUT PERHAPS BY SOME OF
THE ATTITUDE OF PUNK.
PUNK WAS BORN, IN PART,
FROM FRUSTRATION.
PUNK EMERGED AT A TIME
OF GREAT LOSS OF CONFIDENCE
IN THE WES
ABOUT WHERE THE WORLD WAS GOING.
Weinstein: WHEN THRASH STARTED
IN THE EARLY '80s,
THATCHER AND REAGAN
WERE IN CHARGE,
AND WE HAD
A HIGHLY CONSERVATIVE,
VERY RESTRICTIVE KIND
OF SOCIETY.
AND IF YOU'RE A TEENAGER,
ESPECIALLY A TEENAGED MALE,
YUCK,
YOU DON'T WANT TO LIVE IN A
PLACE WHERE THEY ARE IN CHARGE.
THIS MADE MALES FEEL LIKE
THEY HAD TO FIGHT AGAINS
THE SYSTEM
JUST TO STAY IN PLACE,
AND THAT KIND OF AGGRESSION
LEADS TO A SENSE
OF WANTING TO BE LOUDER
AND FASTER.
Dunn: IF YOU LOVED PUNK,
WHY WAS IT THAT YOU DECIDED
TO PLAY THRASH METAL INSTEAD OF
JUST BECOMING A PUNK GUITARIST?
WELL, FOR ME, MUSICIANSHIP
WAS REALLY IMPORTANT.
YOU DIDN'T REALLY HAVE
GREAT GUITAR PLAYERS IN PUNK.
YOU DIDN'T REALLY HAVE
GREAT MUSICIANS IN PUNK.
YOU HAD GREAT SONGS,
BUT AS A MUSICIAN,
I WANTED TO DO MORE,
AND IT SEEMED LIKE THRASH
PROVIDED THE POSSIBILITY
TO APPLY THE MUSICIANSHIP
THAT I'D WORKED SO HARD ON
TO THE ATTITUDE OF PUNK.
[ METAL MUSIC PLAYING ]
THRASH METAL REQUIRES
DEXTERITY AND VIRTUOSITY,
BUT THRASH MUSICIANS DIDN'T FIND
THESE QUALITIES IN PUNK MUSIC.
THE OTHER MAIN INFLUENCE
ON THRASH WAS A GROUP OF BANDS
THAT EMERGED FROM ENGLAND
IN THE LATE '70s
CALLED THE NEW WAVE
OF BRITISH HEAVY METAL.
I KNOW THA
YOU'RE GONNA SCRATCH ME
AND MAIN ME AND MA-A-A-A-UL
YOU KNOW I'M HELPLESS
FROM YOUR MESMERIZING CAT CALL
Dunn: WHAT WAS IT ABOUT THE NEW
WAVE OF BRITISH HEAVY METAL
THAT YOU WERE ATTRACTED TO?
WELL, IT WAS THE ENERGY.
FIRST AND FOREMOST,
THERE WAS A DIFFERENT ENERGY.
THE NEW WAVE OF BRITISH HEAVY
METAL WAS BASICALLY HARD ROCK,
METAL'S ANSWER
TO THE PUNK MOVEMENT.
THERE WERE A BUNCH
OF THE METAL DUDES
THAT TOOK THE ENERGY
AND THE SPIRIT OF PUNK
AND MADE THE RIFTS HEAVIER,
MADE THE RIFTS MORE INTRICATE,
AND THERE WAS JUS
A DIFFERENT LEVEL
OF -- OF JUST KIND
OF MUSICAL WEIGHT TO IT.
I ACTUALLY STARTED
AS A MUSICIAN,
WAS WITH
THE BRITISH INVASION.
AS FAR AS MY GUITAR-PLAYING
STYLE, IT WAS PRETTY MUCH
CRAFTED AROUND THE NEW WAVE
OF BRITISH HEAVY METAL.
THANK GOD FOR ENGLAND, OR I
WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO PLAY A NOTE.
[ LAUGHS ]
THERE WAS CERTAINLY
AN AGGRESSION AND INTENSITY TO,
LIKE, PRIEST AND MAIDEN
AND MOTORHEAD
THAT HADN'T EXISTED IN MUSIC
UNTIL THOSE BANDS CAME.
LISTENING TO SABBATH,
THE GODFATHERS OF HEAVY METAL,
STILL SOME OF THEIR MUSIC WAS
REALLY ROOTED IN THE BLUES.
FOR ME, PRIEST SWEPT ALL
THE BLUES OUT OF THEIR MUSIC.
THAT WAS HEAVY METAL.
WHY WERE YOU DRIVEN TO TAKE
THESE INFLUENCES
AND TURN I
INTO SOMETHING NEW?
DID I KNOW WE WERE DOING
ANYTHING NEW? NO.
WE WERE JUST BASICALLY
RIDING THE COATTAILS OF GIANTS
LIKE MAIDEN AND PRIES
AND THEM
AND JUST DO OUR OWN LITTLE
TWISTED BAY-AREA VERSION OF IT,
YOU KNOW, WHICH WAS TAKE
THE EPIC SONGS OF THEM,
AND WE CHANGED IT ABOUT KILLING
PEOPLE AND [BLEEP] LIKE THAT.
[ METAL MUSIC PLAYING,
SINGING INDISTINCTLY ]
Dunn: THRASH WASN'T JUS
A MIXTURE OF PUNK
IN THE NEW WAVE
OF BRITISH HEAVY METAL.
ITS SCREECHING VOCALS
AND ULTRA-FAST RHYTHM GUITAR
MADE IT A UNIQUE MUSICAL STYLE.
BUT PERHAPS
ITS MOST UNIQUE CHARACTERISTIC
WAS THE RELENTLESS BEA
OF THE DOUBLE BASS DRUM.
SO WHERE DID THIS COME FROM,
AND WHY DID IT BECOME ESSENTIAL
TO THE SOUND OF THRASH?
MAYBE YOU COULD TELL ME
WHY THE DOUBLE BASS
IS IMPORTAN
TO THE SOUND OF THRASH?
Bostaph:
I THINK IT BRINGS A LEVEL
OF EXCITEMENT TO THE MUSIC.
INSTEAD OF JUST GOING,
"BOOM, GAH, DOO, GAH."
I MEAN, GOING --
[ TAPPING FAST BEAT ]
IT'S JUST MORE INTENSE.
AND YOU HEAR
THAT LOW-END THUMP IN,
ESPECIALLY WITH THE GUITARS,
OR IF IT'S COMPLEMENTING
WHAT'S GOING ON,
I THINK THAT'S THE TRUE IDENTITY
OF THRASH MYSELF.
ONE OF THE THINGS THA
THE DOUBLE BASS DRUM DOES
IS IT BREAKS THE MONOTONY
OF THAT VERY FAST BASS SNARE,
BASS SNARE, BASS SNARE,
BASS SNARE.
ADDING DOUBLE BASS CREATES A
SENSE OF VARIETY INTO THE MUSIC,
AND IT CREATES
A RHYTHMIC COMPLEXITY,
AND IT CREATES
A SENSE OF PACE.
IT ADDS RELENTLESSNESS
AND PROPULSION TO THE MUSIC.
[ METAL MUSIC PLAYING ]
Dunn: WHERE DID YOU HEAR
THE DOUBLE-BASS STYLE
BEFORE YOU STARTED
CREATING IT YOURSELF?
FROM MOTORHEAD --
WAS THE FIRST TIME I HEARD
DOUBLE BASS DONE
AT THAT PATTERN.
I'VE HEARD OF
OTHER DOUBLE-BASS DRUMMERS,
BUT I DON'T THINK
THEY DID ANYTHING LIKE THA
AT THAT TEMPO
AND THAT STYLE OF BEAT.
THE DRUMMER
THAT INTRODUCED ME
TO THAT DOUBLE-BASS
TYPE OF THING
WAS PHIL TAYLOR FROM MOTORHEAD
WHEN I FIRST HEARD "OVERKILL"
IN EARLY 1979.
THAT WAS JUS
WHAT BLEW MY HEAD OFF.
[ "OVERKILL" BY MOTORHEAD
PLAYING ]
ONLY WAY TO FEEL THE NOISE
IS WHEN IT'S GOOD AND LOUD
SO COOL I CAN'T BELIEVE IT,
SCREAMING WITH THE CROWD
DON'T SWEAT IT
GET IT BACK TO YOU
Dunn:
THE DOUBLE BASS CLAIM
THAT YOU USED
ON THE SONG "OVERKILL."
Taylor: YEAH.
CAN YOU TELL ME HOW YOU CAME UP
WITH THAT?
I JUST GOT A BRAND-NEW KIT,
AND SO I WAS PRACTICING
ON MY DUAL BASS DRUMS.
AND I WAS JUST GOING --
[TAPPING FEET]
YOU KNOW, LIKE THAT.
AND EDDIE AND LEMMY HAPPENED TO
ARRIVE WHILE I WAS DOING THAT,
AND ACCORDING TO THEM,
THEY SAID THEY STOOD OUTSIDE
THE ROOM,
AND THEY BOTH SAID, "THAT'S
[BLEEP] GOOD" TO EACH OTHER.
AND ONE DAY, ME AND EDDIE
JUST CAME IN THE ROOM
WHILE HE WAS PRACTICING
HIS DOUBLE BASS DRUMS
AND WROTE "OVERKILL."
YOU KNOW.
Dunn:
MOTORHEAD KIND OF SET IN MOTION
THIS KIND OF IMPULSE OR DRIVE
TO PLAY FASTER, LOUDER.
WELL, WE CERTAINLY HELPED A LOT,
YEAH.
WHY DID YOU WAN
TO PLAY FAST?
I DON'T KNOW.
IT WAS JUST, LIKE, IT SEEMED
LIKE A GOOD IDEA AT THE TIME.
YOU PLAY IT ABOU
A THOUSAND MILES AN HOUR.
I CAN TELL YOU THAT.
SO, YOU GUYS ARE GETTING FASTER
WITH AGE.
SEEMS TO BE, YEAH.
I MEAN, WE WANT TO GET OFF STAGE
AND HAVE A REST, YOU KNOW.
GET BACK
IN OUR WHEELCHAIRS.
[ "OVERKILL" PLAYING ]
Dunn: SOME PEOPLE CALL MOTORHEAD
A THRASH METAL BAND.
YES, THEY DO, INDEED.
AND WHY DO YOU THINK
THEY DO THAT?
[ LAUGHS ]
I HAVEN'T GOT A CLUE, REALLY.
I DON'T KNOW.
[ LAUGHS ]
I MEAN, I ONLY EVER ASSOCIATE
THE WORD THRASH
WITH WHAT YOUR DAD DID TO YOU,
YOU KNOW,
WHEN HE WEN
AND TOOK HIS BELT OFF. WHACK!
I MEAN,
I STILL DON'T QUITE KNOW
HOW IT WORKED ITS WAY
INTO THE MUSIC GENRE.
I DID SEE AND HEAR
ALL THE BANDS
THAT SEEM TO BE PLAYING
INCREDIBLY FAST.
WHEN WE FIRST SAW METALLICA
WAS WHEN THEY SUPPORTED US.
CHRIST,
I THINK IT WAS 1982.
AND I REMEMBER AT THE TIME
THINKING,
"[BLEEP], WHAT KIND OF MUSIC
ARE THEY PLAYING?"
'CAUSE IT WAS,
LIKE, SO FAST.
[ METALLICA'S
"PHANTOM LORD" PLAYS ]
Dunn:
MANY PEOPLE REGARD METALLICA
AS THE FIRST THRASH METAL BAND,
SO HOW DID THEY GET STARTED,
AND WHY DID THEIR SOUND CONNEC
WITH SO MANY FANS?
Dunn:
WHEN PEOPLE THINK OF THRASH,
THEY GENERALLY THINK
OF THE BAY AREA,
BUT THAT'S NOT WHERE IT STARTED.
I'VE COME TO L.A.
TO MEET WITH BRIAN SLAGEL,
HEAD OF METAL BLADE RECORDS,
TO FIND OUT HOW HE
AND METALLICA'S LARS ULRICH
HELPED KICKSTART THRASH METAL
IN THIS CITY.
WE ALL LIVED, BREATHED, EAT,
SLEPT, 24 HOURS A DAY, METAL.
IT WAS A SCENE.
IT WAS A CULTURE.
IT WAS A MOVEMENT.
MM-HMM.
AND WE ALL DID
ANYTHING WE COULD.
I COULDN'T PLAY
AN INSTRUMENT.
I WAS TERRIBLE AT IT,
SO THE ONE THING I COULD DO
WAS TRY TO HELP EXPOSE THIS
TO OTHER PEOPLE.
Ulrich: LOS ANGELES,
AT THAT TIME,
WAS FULL OF FM RADIO,
AND IT WASN'T MY BAG.
SO, THERE WAS
A MICHAEL SCHENKER SHOW
UP AT THE PLACE CALLED
THE COUNTRY CLUB
UP BY WHERE BRIAN SLAGEL
LIVED.
SO, I WENT TO THE SHOW,
AND AFTER THE SHOW,
I WAS IN THE PARKING LO
AND SAW A KID
WEARING
A SAXON EUROPEAN TOUR SHIRT.
NOW, NOBODY IN L.A. A
THAT POINT KNEW WHO SAXON WAS.
SO, I RAN UP TO THE KID
AND SAID,
"WHERE'D YOU GET THAT T-SHIRT?"
HE SAID, "OH, I JUST MOVED HERE
FROM EUROPE.
I'M INTO THIS SCENE."
I SAID, "OH, MY GOD,
I'M INTO THIS SCENE, TOO."
BRIAN WAS A MOGUL
IN THE MAKING,
AND HE WANTED TO MAKE
A COMPILATION RECORD
OF THE HEAVIER LOCAL L.A. BANDS,
AND ME AND HETFIELD DROVE UP
WITH OUR LITTLE [BLEEP]
FOSTEX CASSETTE TAPE,
AND HE DID A GOOD JOB, BRIAN,
OF, LIKE, NOT VOMITING
AS HE WAS HEARING
OUR REALLY BADLY RECORDED
VERSION OF "HIT THE LIGHTS."
AND "HIT THE LIGHTS" ENDED UP
ON THE FIRS
"METAL MASSACRE" ALBUM,
EVEN IF THERE WAS
ONE ADDITIONAL "T"
IN THE SPELLING
OF "METALLICA."
THAT WAS SORT OF HOW METALLICA
GOT ITS START WAY BACK.
PLAY NICE
PLAY NI-I-I-I-CE
Dunn: THE METALLICA SONG
"HIT THE LIGHTS"
ON THE METAL MASSACRE
COMPILATION
MARKED THE BEGINNING
OF THRASH METAL,
BUT IN THE EARLY '80s,
L.A. WAS KNOWN FOR A TOTALLY
DIFFERENT STYLE OF METAL --
GLAM METAL.
SO, HOW DID THESE TWO STYLES
OF METAL CO-EXIST?
YOU HAD TO BE IN ONE CORNER
OR THE OTHER.
YOU'RE EITHER
IN THE GLAM METAL CATEGORY,
OR YOU'RE IN
THE HEAVIER CATEGORY.
THE HEAVIER CATEGORY JUS
KIND OF GOT HEAVIER AND HEAVIER.
YOU HAD METALLICA AND OMEN
AND, YOU KNOW, BITCH.
YEAH.
AND THEN SLAYER CAME ALONG
AFTER THAT.
King:
THE WAY THE HAIR METAL BANDS
PRESENTED THEMSELVES WAS ALIEN
TO US.
WE WANTED TO BE THE ANTI-RATT,
THE ANTI-POISON.
Dunn:
FUNNY STORY I'VE HEARD, TOO,
IS THAT YOU GUYS DID WEAR
A LITTLE BIT OF MAKEUP.
YEAH, WE DID.
BUT, YOU KNOW,
THAT'S PART OF BEING IN L.A.
YOU GOT TO WEAR MAKEUP
OF SOME SORT.
WE DIDN'T WAN
TO PRESENT OURSELVES LIKE THAT.
SO, WE SAID, "ALL RIGHT,
EYELINER, DEMONS."
NOT NECESSARILY ALICE COOPER,
BUT THE ANTITHESIS
OF WHAT WAS HAPPENING IN L.A.
YEAH, SLAYER WORE MAKEUP,
OKAY,
BUT, I MEAN, WE JUST WORE
BLACK EYELINER,
WHICH WHAT WE WERE DOING IS
COPYING OZZY AT THE TIME
'CAUSE IT LOOKED EVIL.
BUT IT WASN'T LONG AFTER THA
THAT WE WERE CONVINCED
THAT WE DIDN'T NEED THAT.
Dunn: IN THE FOLKLORE,
IT'S SUGGESTED THAT THERE WAS
A LOT OF ANIMOSITY BETWEEN
HAIR AND THRASH METAL CAMPS.
IS THAT TRUE?
THAT'S NOT --
THAT'S NOT FOLKLORE.
THAT'S REAL BECAUSE
THE HAIR BANDS STOOD FOR GLAM.
I MEAN,
I LOOK AT IT LIKE
GLAM IS THE FLEAS
ON THE CAMEL'S BALLS,
AND THRASH WAS KIND OF LIKE
A FLEA BOMB.
MOTLEY CRUE,
RATT, STEALER, SO ON,
THEY SORT OF REPRESENTED
EVERYTHING THAT WE WERE AGAINST.
THEY WERE LIKE
THE KINGS OF THE SUNSET STRIP.
IT WAS NOT EASY TRYING TO FORCE
OUR WAY INTO THAT WHOLE SETUP.
IT WAS VERY LONELY.
[ LAUGHS ]
I CAN TELL YOU,
IT WAS VERY LONELY
TO BE METALLICA IN L.A. IN 1982.
THERE WAS NOT A LOT OF LOVE
FOR THE TYPE OF THING
THAT WE WERE DOING.
AND SO, WE STARTED PLAYING
SOME SHOWS UP IN SAN FRANCISCO
EVERY THREE, FOUR WEEKS,
AND INSTANTLY,
THINGS STARTED HAPPENING.
WE GOT A FOLLOWING,
SO WE PACKED UP OUR [BLEEP]
AND FINISHED OUR DAY JOBS,
AND WE WERE IN SAN FRANCISCO
PERMANENTLY
FROM EARLY FEBRUARY OF 1983.
DO ALL YOUR AUDIENCES REAC
THE SAME
IN THE DIFFERENT PLACES
YOU PLAY?
UP IN SAN FRANCISCO,
THEY'RE A LOT BETTER.
A LOT BETTER.
THERE'S [BLEEP] IN L.A.
SUCKS.
L.A. SUCKS.
ONE, TWO, THREE --
All: L.A. SUCKS!
[ METAL MUSIC PLAYING ]
Dunn: A SMALL, UNDERGROUND METAL
SCENE WAS DEVELOPING
IN THE BAY AREA
DURING THE EARLY '80s,
BUT IT WASN'T UNTIL METALLICA
ARRIVED IN 1983
THAT THRASH STARTED TO EXPLODE.
Osegueda: I REMEMBER,
WE ALL WENT TO SEE
THIS BAND, METALLICA,
PLAY AT THE KEYSTONE BERKELEY.
AND WE WALKED IN,
AND I JUST [EXHALES SHARPLY]
NEVER SAW ENERGY LIKE THA
IN MY LIFE.
I JUST -- LIKE, THE CROWD EVEN
TRIPPED ME OUT. IT SCARED ME.
IT WAS
JUST TURBOCHARGED MUSIC.
IT WAS SO MUCH HEAVIER
THAN PUNK OR METAL
THAT WE'D HEARD
PUT TOGETHER.
SAN FRANCISCO WAS SO EMBRACING
OF THIS HEAVY MUSIC,
AND METALLICA FEL
THAT ACCEPTANCE
FROM THIS CROWD OF HUNGRY
METALHEADS UP HERE
THAT WEREN'T REALLY AFFECTED
BY WHAT WAS HAPPENING IN L.A.
AT THE TIME.
Holt: PEOPLE IN THE BAY AREA,
YOU KNOW --
THE FIRST TIME
WE PLAYED WITH SLAYER,
THEY HAD THE EYELINER.
THAT [BLEEP] HAD TO GO JUS
TO PLAY A SHOW WITH EXODUS
'CAUSE OUR FANS WERE NOT GONNA
STAND FOR IT.
THEY LOVED SLAYER,
BUT THEY WERE, LIKE,
"YOU CAN'T WEAR MAKEUP
AT AN EXODUS SHOW."
IT WAS JUST A WHOLE DIFFEREN
UNIVERSE UP THERE.
I MEAN, IT WAS
A WHOLE DIFFERENT VIBE.
THERE WAS PASSION.
THE KIDS WERE LIKE US.
THEY WERE JUST KIDS IN LEATHER
AND DENIM JACKETS.
WE JUST INSTANTLY FIT IN,
AND WE FELT SOAT HOME.
IT WAS LIKE SMALL PACK OF DOGS
WITH ALL OF US BANDS,
LIKE FORBIDDEN, EXODUS,
AND DEATH ANGEL, TESTAMENT.
THERE WAS 20 METAL BANDS, SO I
WAS LIKE A PACK OF RABID DOGS.
AND WE WERE ALL A
THE SAME PARTIES AND SAME SHOWS
AND TALKED ABOU
THE SAME THINGS.
Osegueda: RUTHIE'S INN BECAME
THIS MECCA FOR PEOPLE TO GO TO,
NO MATTER WHAT WAS PLAYING.
WHETHER IT WAS PUNK, METAL.
ANY NIGHT, IT'D BE CHOCK FULL
OF METALHEADS AND KIDS IN PUNK.
AND THIS LITTLE PLACE BECAME
THE MARRIAGE OF THE TWO GENRES.
Holt: I THINK THE ONE THING THE
BAY AREA DOESN'T GET ENOUGH OF
IS RECOGNITION FOR ACTUALLY
BEING THE FIRST CROSSOVER REGION
IN AMERICA, NOT NEW YORK.
IF YOU LOOK BACK AT SOME OF
THE OLD RUTHIE'S INN FLYERS,
THERE WAS CONSTANTLY, LIKE,
METAL BANDS PLAYING
WITH PUNK-ROCK GUYS.
WE WERE ON ONE
AT ONE TIME,
AND HE WAS CALLING IT,
"A CROSS-CULTURAL EVENT."
[ LAUGHS ]
IT EVEN SAID ON THE FLYER,
"A CROSS-CULTURAL EVENT."
AND IT WAS LIKE US,
AND THEN THERE WAS PUNK BANDS.
Geist: ONE OF THE HUGEST THINGS
I THINK ABOUT THRASH METAL
AND ITS CROSS FERTILIZATION
WITH PUNK ROCK AND HARD CORE
IS THE WAY THAT THE VIBE
OF A METAL SHOW CHANGED.
THRASH WAS WHEN METAL
DISCOVERED MOSHING, BASICALLY,
AND DISCOVERED STAGE DIVING.
YOU KNOW,
YOU GO TO A SLAYER SHOW,
AND IT'S LIKE BEING CAUGH
IN A PRISON RIOT.
BEFORE, YOU WOULD GO
TO A METAL SHOW,
AND IT'D BE A LO
OF HEAD BANGING, YOU KNOW,
MAYBE RAISE YOUR FIRST,
FLASH THE HORNS.
BUT YOU GO TO A THRASH SHOW --
THE FIRST THING
WITH A THRASH SHOW,
IS IF YOU'RE WEARING THESE,
YOU LEAVE THESE AT HOME
'CAUSE THESE ARE
GETTING BROKEN.
[ METAL MUSIC PLAYING ]
I'VE LISTENED TO THRASH METAL
SINCE THE EARLY '80s.
THE FIRST DEMO TAPE
I GOT FROM THE BAY AREA
WAS THE FIRST LEGACY DEMO.
AND I HEARD ABOUT IT IN A
MAGAZINE CALLED "METAL FORCES,"
THROUGH THIS SECTION CALLED
"PENBANGERS."
PENBANGERS WAS LIKE PEN PALS
FOR HEADBANGERS.
AND I GOT THE DEMO
THROUGH TAPE TRADE.
Weinstein:
IN THE ERA OF THE INTERNET,
PEOPLE WOULD NOT UNDERSTAND
GETTING MAGAZINES
AND 'ZINES THAT HAD ADS
IN THE BOTTOM,
TAPE TRADER INTO, AND YOU NAME,
LIKE, FOUR OR FIVE BANDS,
AND YOU GIVE YOUR ADDRESS,
AND PEOPLE WILL SEND YOU TAPES.
YOU SEND THEM TAPES.
YOU DIDN'T ASK
FOR MONEY.
YOU DIDN'T EXPEC
ANYTHING.
YOU SAT DOWN AND WROTE A LETTER.
[ LAUGHS ]
CAN YOU IMAGINE?
AND YOU PUT A CASSETTE TAPE IN
THERE THAT YOU DUBBED 37 TIMES
TO THE POINT WHERE YOU COULD
HARDLY HEAR WHAT WAS GOING ON,
BUT THAT'S HOW THE MUSIC
GOT AROUND.
IT WAS THE WAY THAT YOU COULD
SHARE THE STUFF
AND FIND OUT ABOUT NEW BANDS,
AND THEN THE GOOD STUFF
GOT LOTS OF NAME CHECKS
IN THOSE PEN PAL LETTERS
THAT WE ALL SA
AND WROTE TO EACH OTHER.
I MEAN, IT'S A LONG, LOST ART.
WE WERE ALREADY SENDING OU
LIVE TAPES OF US,
AND FROM THAT, WE WENT OUT THERE
ON THE "KILL AS ONE" DEMO,
AND WE HIT THE STAGE,
AND PEOPLE WERE YELLING
FOR DEATH ANGEL.
THEY SANG "KILL AS ONE."
THEY KNEW "THRASHERS."
IT'S CRAZY, AND THIS WAS ALL
FROM UNDERGROUND TAPE TRADING,
WHICH MADE THE SCENE.
IT WAS THE ORGANIC
ANALOG INTERNET.
[ DEATH ANGEL'S
"VORACIOUS SOULS" PLAYS ]
[ SINGING INDISTINCTLY ]
Dunn: THROUGH TAPE TRADING,
THRASH METAL'S FANBASE
WAS STARTING TO GROW ACROSS
AMERICA AND AROUND THE WORLD.
AND WHEN METALLICA'S
"NO LIFE 'TIL LEATHER" DEMO
LANDED IN A FLEA MARKE
IN THE SUBURBS OF NEW YORK,
THRASH METAL GO
ITS FIRST RECORD DEAL
THROUGH UPSTART LABEL
MEGAFORCE RECORDS.
THE FIRST TIME WE HEARD
METALLICA
WAS WHEN A FELLOW CAME
INTO OUR STORE
WHO JUST CAME BACK
FROM SAN FRANCISCO.
I THINK HE SAW THEM AT THE MAB,
AND HE HAD THESE TAPES
FROM THE SHOW.
THE FIRST SECOND WE HEARD IT,
YOU KNOW,
MARSHA AND I WERE BOTH,
LIKE, LIKE, STUNNED.
Marsha: IT JUST HAD SUCH BALLS,
SUCH GUTS.
I JUST REMEMBERED BEING
BLOWN AWAY BY IT,
REALLY JUST, HOLY [BLEEP]
SEE, AMERICA DIDN'T HAVE
A WAVE OF HEAVY METAL, REALLY.
METALLICA SURE ANSWERED THAT,
AND IT WAS LIKE THE NEW,
IMPROVED AMERICAN SOUND.
Ulrich: IT WAS ONE OF THOSE
LEGENDARY, HE HEARS IT,
DROPS WHAT HE'S DOING,
RUNS TO THE PAY PHONE, CALLS ME.
AND WITHIN A FEW MINUTES,
THERE'S JUST A LOVEFEST BREWING,
AND IT'S, "COME OUT EAST.
LET'S MAKE A RECORD TOGETHER,"
THE WHOLE NINE YARDS.
Dunn:
SO, YOU STARTED MEGAFORCE
'CAUSE NO ONE WOULD SIGN
METALLICA?
NOBODY WANTED METALLICA.
NOBODY KNEW
WHAT TO DO WITH IT.
WE WENT TO ALL THE MAJORS,
AND THEY JUST SQUIRMED.
THEY JUST DIDN'T KNOW
WHAT TO MAKE OF I
AND WHAT TO DO WITH IT.
JON AND I JUST REALLY BELIEVED
IN THAT RECORD.
I MEAN, WE'D SPENT EVERY MINUTE
IN THE STUDIO.
KNEW IT INSIDE OUT,
AND WE REALLY BELIEVED IN IT.
WE HAVE A DEBUT ALBUM
OUT ON MEGAFORCE RECORDS.
IT'S CALLED "KILL 'EM ALL."
WE'RE GLAD TO KILL ALL YOU
TONIGHT.
WHO WANTS THIS [BLEEP]
[ HORNS HONKING ]
Dunn: BY THE EARLY '80s,
MANY THRASH BANDS HAD RELEASED
INDEPENDENT RECORDS,
AND THE SCENE WAS EXPANDING
BEYOND THE BAY AREA.
BUT IN AUGUST 1984,
METALLICA, ANTHRAX, AND RAVEN
PLAYED NEW YORK'S
ROSELAND BALLROOM,
BRINGING THRASH
OUT OF THE UNDERGROUND
AND ONTO THE RADAR
OF MAJOR LABELS.
IT WAS INCREDIBLE TO, LIKE,
GET ON STAGE
AND OPEN OUR SHOW
WITH "DEATHRIDER"
AND SEE 3,000 KIDS ALL --
ALL HEADBANGING AND SINGING
THE WORDS TO OUR SONGS.
WE COULDN'T BELIEVE IT.
IT WAS INSANE.
IT WAS A CULMINATION OF THREE
YEARS OF HARD WORK TO THAT POIN
AND REHEARSING SEVEN NIGHTS
A WEEK
AND JUST BUSTING OUR ASSES
AND JUST TRYING TO MAKE THIS
HAPPEN.
WE PROMOTED THAT SHOW.
IT WAS 3,500 PEOPLE,
AND EVERYBODY WAS THERE
FROM ALL THE RECORD LABELS,
AND THEY HAD TO SIT THERE
AND SEE THESE PEOPLE
WHO THEY NEVER HEARD OF
PLAY TO SUCH RADICAL DEVOTEES.
THE CROWD WAS NUTS.
AND WHEN JAMES CLIMBED UP
ON THE MONITORS
AND LOOKED AT THE CROWD, SAID,
"GUESS WHO'S BACK IN TOWN?"
THE WHOLE [EXHALES SHARPLY]
PLACE WENT NUCLEAR.
IT WAS THE BIGGEST SHOW
UP TILL THAT POINT.
CERTAINLY THE BIGGEST SHOW THA
ANY OF US HAD BEEN INVOLVED IN
AND THIS SUPER-FRIENDLY GUY
JUST SHOWS UP BACKSTAGE
AND GOT A BIG SMILE ON HIS FACE.
I JUST MADE A BEELINE BACKSTAGE,
WENT PAST SECURITY,
WENT PAST EVERYTHING.
PRACTICALLY BOLTED THE DOOR
TO BACKSTAGE.
THEY KNEW THAT I WAS ECSTATIC
ABOUT THE MUSIC,
AND THAT I WORKED
FOR A MAJOR LABEL.
AND HE, GOD BLESS HIM,
WANTED TO SIGN METALLICA
TO ELEKTRA RECORDS.
IMAGINE THAT.
THAT WAS THE BIGGEST THING
IN THE WORLD.
THE IDEA OF SIGNING
TO A MAJOR LABEL?
LIKE, YOU KNOW, THAT'S
A [BLEEP] DREAM COME TRUE.
AND RAVEN GOT THEIR DEAL
WITH ATLANTIC,
AND METALLICA GOT THEIR DEAL
WITH ELEKTRA.
WE WERE STILL ON MEGAFORCE.
WE DIDN'T GET A DEAL YET,
ALTHOUGH WE GOT SCOUTED
THAT NIGHT.
IT JUST TOOK A COUPLE
OF MORE MONTHS,
YOU KNOW, FOR US TO GET SIGNED.
BUT, YEAH, YOU COULD BASICALLY
SAY ALL THREE BANDS, YOU KNOW,
SIGNED THEIR MAJOR DEALS
FROM PLAYING THAT ROSELAND SHOW.
ALL OF A SUDDEN,
THE MAJOR LABELS BECAME,
"HEY, WHAT'S GOING ON HERE?
PEOPLE SELLING LOTS OF RECORDS.
WE SHOULD GET INVOLVED IN THIS."
SLAYER STARTED TO GE
PRETTY BIG, AND MAJOR LABELS,
THEY'RE ALL COMING, DESCENDING
UPON THEM LIKE CRAZY,
AND YOU KNOW, THEY EVENTUALLY
SIGNED WITH RICK RUBIN'S LABEL.
BUT WHEN SLAYER LEF
AND SIGNED WITH THE MAJORS,
LIKE, HEY, THIS IS A GREAT THING
FOR THESE GUYS
TO TAKE THAT NEXT STEP.
[ METAL MUSIC PLAYING ]
Dunn:
HOW DID THINGS CHANGE FOR YOU
IN TRANSITIONING
FROM METAL BLADE TO DEF JAM?
WE GOT A TOUR BUS.
YOU KNOW, WE WERE
TRAVELING AROUND IN A VAN,
AND GETTING INTO A TOUR BUS
WAS LUXURY.
THE HOTELS WERE MUCH NICER.
WE WEREN'T STAYING AT HOTELS
THAT WERE RENT HOURLY.
Ulrich:
IT WAS KIND OF A CRAZY TIME.
I DON'T THINK WE SLOWED DOWN
LONG ENOUGH TO EVEN TAKE IT IN.
ALL OF A SUDDEN, WE WERE EATING
AND DRINKING BETTER,
AND WE LIKED IT.
[ LAUGHS ]
Mustaine: ONE OF THE EXECUTIVES
OPENS UP HIS DRAWER,
AND THERE'S A MIRROR
FULL OF COKE,
AND I'M, LIKE,
"WE'VE ARRIVED, DAVID."
AND HE LOOKS AT ME AND, LIKE,
"YEAH, HIGH FIVE."
THEM GIVING US CHAMPAGNE
AND A BOX FULL OF NIKE HI-TOPS.
AND THAT'S WHY YOU LOOK
AT ANY OF THOSE PICTURES,
WE WERE IN THESE ROTTEN
BLUE JEANS
AND DISGUSTING, FILTHY,
STAINED T-SHIRTS,
BUT GOD DAMN IT,
WE HAD BRAND NEW SHOES.
WE GOT THEM FROM CAPITOL.
THEY GAVE US BRAND-NEW NIKES.
[ "PEACE SELLS BY MEGADETH"
PLAYING ]
IF THERE'S A NEW WAY
I'LL BE THE FIRST IN LINE
BUT IT BETTER WORK
THIS TIME
Dunn: BY THE MID-'80s,
THRASH WAS FLOURISHING.
BACKED BY MAJOR LABEL SUPPORT,
THRASH BANDS WERE TOURING
THE WORLD
AND CREATING THEIR BIGGEST,
BOLDEST,
AND MOST INFLUENTIAL RECORDS,
CULMINATING
IN WHAT MANY CONSIDER
THE GREATEST THRASH RECORD
OF ALL TIME,
SLAYER'S "REIGN IN BLOOD,"
AN ALBUM THAT REVOLUTIONIZED
THE SOUND OF THRASH METAL.
RIPPING APART,
SEVERING FLESH
GOUGING EYES,
TEARING LIMB FROM LIMB
EXPERIMENTATION, SLOW
INFECTION, INTERNAL DECAY
Lombardo: WE WERE TRYING TO FIND
OURSELVES AT THAT TIME,
AND FINDING OUR SOUND
WAS KEY TO THAT RECORD.
I MEAN, I DON'T WANT TO MAKE
ANY COMPARISONS,
BUT THAT RECORD HAS MAGIC,
LIKE, LET'S SAY AC/DC'S
"HIGHWAY TO HELL."
WHERE THAT ALBUM,
THERE'S SOMETHING ABOUT IT.
IT HAS SOME KIND OF LIFE
TO IT.
King: WE WERE SUCH FANS
OF MERCIFUL FATE AND VENOM.
WE DIDN'T KNOW YOU COULD DO
A RECORD WITHOUT REVERB,
AND ANDY AND RICK RUBIN
PUT EVERY SONG,
EVERY INSTRUMENT, RIGHT HERE
FROM BEGINNING TO END.
NO FRILLS,
NO BELLS AND WHISTLES.
YOU KNOW, IT'S, "HERE IT IS."
YOU'RE EITHER GONNA LIKE IT,
OR YOU'RE GONNA HATE IT.
AND LUCKILY,
WE WROTE GOOD ENOUGH SONGS
WHERE EVERYBODY LIKED IT.
THAT'S WHAT WE DID
ON THAT RECORD.
YOU KNOW, IT'S NO
A VERY AMBIENT RECORD.
IT'S ALL JUST RIGHT IN YOUR FACE
'CAUSE A LO
OF THE METAL RECORDS
THAT I'D HEARD UP TO THAT POINT,
THEY TENDED TO BE
A LITTLE THINNER ON THE LOW END.
A LOT OF THE DOUBLE KICK STUFF
WAS LIKE A TYPEWRITER,
LIKE [IMITATES TYPEWRITER KEYS
CLACKING]
BUT I ALWAYS FEL
THE WHOLE THING COULD
JUST BE BALLSIER AND HEAVIER.
THE IDEA WAS TO HAVE
THE LISTENER
KIND OF BE A PUNCHING BAG,
YOU KNOW?
AND TO HAVE THIS MUSIC GO,
"POW, POW, POW, POW, POW."
SKIN CONTORTION, BONE EROSION,
YOUR LIFE BECOMES YOUR FINE
NECROPHOBIC,
CAN'T CONTROL THE PARANOIA
SCARED TO DIE
THERE WAS MUSIC THAT WAS FINALLY
BEGINNING TO MAKE MONEY.
FOR THE BANDS,
FOR THE RECORD COMPANIES,
FOR THE CONCERT PROMOTERS.
METALLICA AND SLAYER MADE A LO
OF MONEY RIGHT FROM THE START.
SO, IT JUST BECAME NATURAL
THAT THE OTHER RECORD COMPANIES
WANTED THEIR OWN THRASH BAND.
YOU KNOW, I MEAN,
EVEN DEATH ANGEL
GOT SIGNED TO A MAJOR LABEL.
HOW DID THINGS CHANGE ONCE
YOU GUYS WERE ON A MAJOR LABEL?
WE JUST HAD
A MUCH BIGGER BUDGET,
AND WE WERE ABLE TO CREATE
A REALLY WELL-PRODUCED ALBUM.
WE HAD A LOT MORE DIRECTION.
WE RECORDED I
DOWN IN L.A.
WE HAD A FURNISHED APARTMEN
THAT WE LIVED IN, YOU KNOW,
THE WHOLE TIME ALL TOGETHER,
AND JUST CONCENTRATED ON THE --
IMMERSING THE PROJECTS.
IN A HUGE WAY,
AND IT WAS JUST AMAZING.
MAJOR LABELS WOULD SPEND A LO
OF MONEY TO RECORD RECORDS
AND DO VIDEOS AND TOUR SUPPORT,
YOU KNOW, PROMOTION.
IT'S ALWAYS
THIS GROWING PROCESS.
YOU'RE GONNA SELL MORE
AND MORE AND MORE.
TOUR MORE, TOURS GET BIGGER,
BIGGER PRODUCTION.
YOU KNOW, IT'S JUS
THIS BIG, GROWING MACHINE.
SO, METAL REALLY WAS
GOING PRETTY STRONG.
SUDDENLY, THIS HUGE SCENE
OF BANDS MAKING THIS
REALLY GREAT MUSIC,
AND THEY'RE ALL DOING I
AT A VERY HIGH LEVEL,
DOING IT VERY WELL.
ALL OF A SUDDEN,
I GOT A DEMO FROM VOIVOD.
OH, MY GOD,
THIS IS AMAZING.
I GOT A DEMO
FROM SACRIFICE.
I HEARD SODOM AND HELLHAMMER
AND CELTIC FROS
AND THOUGHT,
"OH, MY GOD, THESE ARE AMAZING."
WHEN YOU SEE THAT HAPPENING
ON A GLOBAL LABEL,
YOU SEE REALLY GOOD-QUALITY
BANDS COMING FROM EVERYWHERE.
IT'S, LIKE, "OH, OKAY,
THIS IS NOT JUS
OUR LITTLE THING IN OUR
BACKYARD. IT'S EVERYWHERE."
[ CHEERING ]
Dunn: THRASH WAS NOW METAL'S
FASTEST-GROWING SUBGENRE.
THRASH ALBUMS WERE GOING GOLD
AND PLATINUM.
VIDEOS WERE IN REGULAR ROTATION
ON MTV,
AND ITS FANS WERE NOW
AN INTERNATIONAL SUBCULTURE.
IT WAS EVEN GIVING THE OLD GUARD
OF METAL A RUN FOR ITS MONEY.
Man:
ALL RIGHT, WHO ARE YOU GUYS HERE
TO SEE -- OZZY OR METALLICA?
METALLICA.METALLICA.
HOW COME?
THEY'RE BETTER THAN OZZY.
THEY'RE BETTER
THAN OZZY, YEAH.
THEY'RE GONNA BLOW OZZY
OFF THE STAGE.
METALLICA!
All: METALLICA!
Young man: THEY'RE NEW.
THEY'RE HEAVY. DO HEAVY METAL.
THEY THRASH!
YEAH, THEY DEFINITELY THRASH.
THEY DEFINITELY THRASH.
[ CHEERING ]
[ METAL MUSIC PLAYS ]
[ METAL MUSIC PLAYING ]
I GOT TO HEAR YA!
Dunn: WHEN I WAS A TEENAGER,
THE ULTIMATE DREAM TOUR
WAS THE CLASH OF THE TITANS
FEATURING ANTHRAX, MEGADETH,
AND SLAYER ON THE SAME BILL.
BUT THIS TOUR ALSO FORESHADOWED
A MAJOR TRANSITION
IN HEAVY MUSIC IN AMERICA
BECAUSE THE OPENING BAND
WAS FUTURE GRUNGE SUPERSTARS
ALICE IN CHAINS.
NAME YOUR GOD
AND BLEED THE FREAK
I'D LIKE TO SEE
HOW YOU ALL WOULD BLEED
FOR ME
King: PROBABLY THE MOST IRONIC
THING ABOUT THAT TOUR IS,
ALICE IN CHAINS OPENED IT,
AND THEY BECAME THE NEXT THING,
BIGGER THAN THRASH
WILL EVER BECOME.
I DIDN'T SEE THE GRUNGE THING
OVERTURNING LIFE AS WE KNEW IT.
IT'S STRANGE BECAUSE THE CLASH
OF THE TITANS TOUR
WAS THE PEAK
AND ALSO THE GUILLOTINE
FOR THRASH METAL
BECAUSE IT'S AS BIG AS IT WAS
GONNA GET AT THAT POINT, REALLY.
I MEAN, YOU PU
THE THREE OF US TOGETHER --
ANTHRAX, SLAYER, MEGADETH --
YOU PUT US ON TOUR.
WE'RE SELLING OUT SHEDS
AND ARENAS.
AND THEN AT THE SAME TIME,
WHERE DO YOU GO FROM THERE?
WHERE DID YOU GO
WHEN YOU'VE CREATED
THIS INCREDIBLY FAST,
INTRICATE MUSIC?
BUT IT'S ALSO VERY DENSE.
IT DOESN'T SAY, OBVIOUSLY,
WHERE YOU GO NEXT.
AND I THINK
THE CLASH OF THE TITANS
REFLECTED THE POINT WHERE IT WAS
AS MOST COMMERCIALLY POPULAR,
BUT ALSO WHERE IT WAS JUS
STARTING TO RUN OUT OF IDEAS.
I THINK THE '90s WERE HARD ON
THRASH METAL BECAUSE,
YOU KNOW, BASICALLY,
IT HAD BEEN PLAYED OUT.
THERE'S ONLY SO MANY TIMES
YOU CAN REWRITE
THE SAME RECORD
OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN.
Dunn: HAVE YOU EVER FEL
CONFINED OR CONSTRAINED
BY THAT LABEL, "THRASH"?
YES, I BELIEVE THAT THAT LABEL,
WHILE IT FITS US VERY WELL,
I THINK IT'S LIKE A PAIR
OF TIGHT-FITTING SHOES.
I THINK THAT IT WOULD
BE MUCH COOLER FOR US TO BE
MONIKERED "MEGADETH,"
AND LEFT AT THAT.
IT'S DEFINITELY THRASH,
BUT IT'S SO MUCH MORE.
Ulrich: WE JUST FELT THAT THERE
WAS NOTHING MORE WE COULD DO.
WE HAD A FEAR OF REPETITION,
AND WE HAD A FEAR
OF GETTING STUCK.
AND WE SAW WITH SOME
OF THE OTHER METAL BANDS
THAT WERE OUR PEERS,
THAT THERE WAS A KIND OF
A STATUS QUO ELEMENT,
A SAMENESS TO IT THA
WE JUST FELT WAS NOT FOR US.
[ "ENTER SANDMAN" BY METALLICA
PLAYING ]
Dunn: IN THE EARLY '90s,
THRASH BANDS STARTED TO CHANGE
THEIR SOUND,
AND METALLICA'S "BLACK" ALBUM
WAS THE BAND'S MOST ACCESSIBLE
RECORD TO DATE
AND WAS
A HUGE COMMERCIAL SUCCESS,
SELLING OVER 22 MILLION COPIES.
[ "ENTER SANDMAN" PLAYING ]
SAY YOUR PRAYERS, LITTLE ONE
DON'T FORGET, MY SON
TO INCLUDE EVERYONE
I'LL TUCK YOU IN,
WARM WITHIN
KEEP YOU FREE FROM SIN
TILL THE SANDMAN, HE COMES
THE FIRST NOTES OF
"ENTER SANDMAN," MY JAW DROPPED,
AND I SAID, "THRASH HAS NOW
TO ITS CREDI
"A CLASSIC, ALL-TIME RECORD.
ALL-TIME, YOU KNOW?
THAT COULD COMPETE WITH ANYTHING
ELSE THAT WAS CLASSIC."
ANYBODY THAT SAYS
THE "BLACK" ALBUM
IS NOT A GOOD RECORD IS HIGH,
YOU KNOW?
I MEAN, IT WAS AWESOME.
THEY MADE A RECORD THAT SOUNDED
AS BIG AS ANY POP ALBUM.
Billy:
I CAN REMEMBER THE DAY WHEN I
FIRST HEARD "ENTER SANDMAN."
WOW, YOU KNOW?
IT JUST, LIKE, BLEW ME AWAY.
IT WAS ALL THERE.
SO, WHY DID I FEEL
BETRAYED?
BECAUSE YOU WERE BETRAYED.
[ LAUGHS ]
YOU COULD FEEL
WHAT THEY DID.
I MEAN,
THEY WENT FOR THE GOLD.
THEY GOT THE GOLD,
BUT YOUR SENSE OF WHAT METAL WAS
WASN'T EXACTLY IN THE SOUND.
THEY BROUGHT IN
AN AUDIENCE
WHO DIDN'T HAVE A CLUE
ABOUT METAL.
WHY YOU USE THE WORD "BETRAYAL,"
THAT'S A VERY STRONG WORD.
I CAN CERTAINLY UNDERSTAND THA
PEOPLE WOULD FEEL, YOU KNOW,
"OH, MY GOD, 'ENTER SANDMAN,'
NOTHING ELSE MATTERS.
WHAT HAPPENED?"
BUT IT WAS WHAT WE NEEDED TO DO
FOR OUR OWN SANITY
BECAUSE IF WE HAD MADE
"AND JUSTICE FOR ALL PART TWO,"
THEN THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN
THE SELLOUT, I'M TELLING YOU.
HONESTLY, I WAS -- I DON'T --
I SHOULD SAY IT, WHAT THE HECK?
YEAH, I THREW IT --
I THREW IT DOWN THE STAIRS.
SAID, "WHAT THE HELL'S THIS?"
I COULDN'T BELIEVE IT.
I FELT THAT THE "THRASH"
IN THRASH METAL WAS GONE.
WHEN I SAW THAT,
I FELT IT NOW CONFORM
TO THE MTV STYLE
OF MUSIC PROMOTION.
I NEVER OPENED MYSELF
THIS WAY
LIFE IS OURS,
WE LIVE IT OUR WAY
Dunn: WHAT RULES OF THRASH DID
THEY BREAK ON THE "BLACK" ALBUM?
Weinstein: BALLADS.
WELL, FOR THRASH,
BALLAD'S NO GOOD.
THAT'S AGAINST THE LAW.
THEY MIGHT AS WELL USE KEYBOARDS
AND HAVE A VIOLIN, TOO.
YOU DON'T DO BALLADS.
I REMEMBER GOING WITH MY BUDDY
TO SOME DANCE CLUB.
DON'T ASK ME WHY.
AND I'M, LIKE, FREAKING OUT.
I'M GOING, "THIS IS METALLICA.
"THEY'RE PLAYING METALLICA
AT A DANCE CLUB.
WHAT THE HELL'S GOING ON HERE?
THIS ISN'T RIGHT."
FOREVER TRUSTING YOU AND I
NO, NOTHING ELSE MATTERS
WHEN THE "BLACK" ALBUM CAME OU
AND SOLD 5 BAJILLION COPIES,
THAT BECAME -- FOR ALL THESE
OTHER MAJOR LABELS,
THAT BECAME
THE BENCHMARK FOR,
"OKAY,
WE HAVE A HEAVY-METAL BAND.
HOW DO WE MAKE THEM
METALLICA?"
I THINK MANY OF US TRIED TO
FOLLOW THAT FORK IN THE ROAD,
THE METALLICA FORK.
EVERYBODY, YOU KNOW, THOUGHT IF
WE'D GO A LITTLE MORE LIKE THAT,
WE'LL GARNER THAT AUDIENCE,
AND WE MIGHT, YOU KNOW,
BE ABLE TO FOLLOW
THAT SAME CAREER TRAJECTORY.
SLAYER STAYED TRUE
TO WHAT THEY DID.
IT ABSOLUTELY SHOWS
THAT IT WORKED.
Lombardo: THE RECORD COMPANY DID
COME UP TO US
AND DISCUSS THINGS
IN WHAT THEY WANTED TO DO.
BUT IF IT DIDN'T SIT WELL
WITH THE GUYS IN THE BAND,
WITH ALL OF US,
WE WOULDN'T GO WITH IT.
WE DON'T WANT TO CHANGE.
WE ARE WHO WE ARE.
THIS IS THE WAY WE PLAY.
THIS IS THE STYLE OF SONGS
THAT WE LIKE TO WRITE.
IF YOU'RE GONNA TELL US
TO DO OTHER, YOU KNOW,
WE'RE GONNA TELL YOU
TO [BLEEP] OFF.
THIS WHOLE THING ABOU
THE SELLOUT AND THE, YOU KNOW,
BEING TRUE AND ALL THIS STUFF,
I FELT THAT THERE WERE A LO
OF CONTRADICTIONS IN THA
BECAUSE I FELT THAT THERE WERE
PEOPLE THAT WERE SELLING OU
BY BEING THE SAME,
AND THAT WERE SELLING OU
BY JUST GIVING THE FANS
WHAT THEY WANTED.
I KNOW LARS MENTIONED
YEARS AGO --
AND I THINK HE REFERENCED US --
ABOUT PAINTING YOURSELF INTO A
CORNER AND HAVING NOWHERE TO GO.
AND THAT'S WHY METALLICA KIND OF
BECAME A ROCK BAND FOR A WHILE.
BUT IF I'M IN A CORNER,
I LIKE MY CORNER.
IT'S THE COOLEST CORNER
I'VE EVER BEEN IN.
[ "WAR ENSEMBLE" BY SLAYER
PLAYING ]
PROPAGANDA DEATH ENSEMBLE,
BURIAL TO BE
CORPSES ROTTING
THROUGH THE NIGHT
IN BLOOD LACED MISERY
SCORCHED EARTH THE POLICY
THE REASON FOR THE SIEGE
THE PENDULUM,
IT SHAVES THE BLADE
THE STRAFING AIR BLOOD RAID
Dunn: WHILE SLAYER STAYED
THE COURSE THROUGH THE '90s
MAINTAINING THEIR THRASH STYLE,
MANY THRASH BANDS CHANGED
THEIR SOUND,
BOWING TO THE PRESSURE
OF MAJOR LABELS.
USUALLY THE FIRST LABEL FOR
THE MAJOR WOULD BE PRETTY GOOD
BECAUSE THEY'RE KIND OF LEF
TO THEIR OWN TO MAKE.
AND THEN AFTER THEY DID THAT,
ALL OF A SUDDEN,
THOSE INFLUENCES,
"WELL, YOU KNOW,
YOU NEED TO HAVE A HIT SONG.
"YOU NEED TO LOOK THIS WAY.
YOUR VIDEO NEEDS TO LOOK
THIS WAY."
Holt: MY LEAST FAVORITE ALBUM,
"FORCE OF HABIT,"
WE ACTUALLY DID,
FOR THE FIRST TIME IN MY CAREER,
TRIED TO WRITE MORE FOR
WHAT I THOUGHT THE LABEL WANTED.
IT'S THE FIRST TIME
I DIDN'T WRITE FOR MYSELF.
THE SONGS WE THINK ARE COOL AND
HIP, THEY'RE, LIKE, "NO, NO, NO,
IT'S THE BALLAD WE'RE GONNA PUSH
AND DO THE VIDEO."
WE'RE, LIKE, "WHAT?"
THAT WAS THE BIG CHANGE
BECAUSE THERE'S SOMEONE WHO
HAS THE MONEY WHO'S TELLING US
WHAT PRODUCT THEY WANT US TO DO,
AND HOW THEY WANT US TO WRITE,
HOW THEY WANT US
TO BE PRESENTED.
[ "THE BALLAD" BY TESTAMEN
PLAYING ]
I'M NOT ONE TO SAY
WHERE MY FEELINGS ARE GOING
WHEN THEY WITHER AWAY
I PRAY TO SEE ANOTHER DAY
Skolnick: SOME WRONG DECISIONS
WERE MADE ALONG THE WAY.
IT ALWAYS FELT LIKE
WE WEREN'T QUITE
WHERE WE WERE SUPPOSED TO BE.
IT'S NOT GOOD MUSICIANSHIP
THAT MAKES A SUCCESSFUL BAND.
IT'S GOOD DECISION MAKING.
BANDS WERE GETTING DROPPED OFF
MAJOR LABELS,
AND WE'RE BREAKING UP.
AND WE'RE, LIKE,
"OH, GREAT," YOU KNOW?
WE'RE GONNA PROBABLY BE
OFF ATLANTIC SOON, ANYHOW.
SO AT THAT TIME, IT WAS A BAD,
DARK TIME FOR US AS A BAND
BECAUSE SOMETHING WE HAD STARTED
WAS ENDING.
I ALWAYS SAID IF THIS BECAME,
LIKE, A JOB I DIDN'T LIKE,
I WOULDN'T DO IT, YOU KNOW?
AND I DIDN'T LIKE IT ANYMORE.
SO I STAYED HOME,
JOINED THE PTA.
[ CHUCKLES ]
SCARED THE [BLEEP]
OUT OF THE OTHER PARENTS
AT THE PTA MEETINGS.
IF I HAD IT ALL TO DO OVER
AGAIN, YOU KNOW,
I WOULD HAVE JUST CONTINUED
WRITING SONGS
ABOUT KILLING PEOPLE.
Dunn: BY THE MID-'90s,
MANY THRASH BANDS
HAD ABANDONED THE MOVEMENT,
AND THE GENRE HAD STAGNATED.
THIS GAVE RISE TO SEVERAL
NEW SUBGENRES
THAT WERE EVEN MORE EXTREME
THAN THRASH,
LIKE DEATH METAL, GRINDCORE,
AND BLACK METAL.
STYLES THAT WERE COMPLETELY
VOID OF MELODY
AND FEATURED BLAST BEAT DRUMMING
AND ULTRA LOW, GUTTURAL VOCALS.
BUT JUST WHEN YOU THOUGH
THRASH METAL WAS DEAD,
IT RE-EMERGED
IN A PLACE YOU'D LEAST EXPECT.
[ HEAVY METAL MUSIC PLAYING ]
[ MUSIC CONTINUES ]
WHEN WE STARTED TO START OU
PUTTING OUT RECORDS
AND GETTING THE CHANCE
TO RECORD STUFF,
THE THRASH STUFF WAS
STAYING OUT, IN ONE WAY.
THERE WAS A BIT OF STAGNATION
IN THAT SCENE.
THERE WAS SOMETHING THERE
THAT WAS LOS
THAT WE DIDN'T FIND ANYMORE,
YOU KNOW,
AND THAT WAS THE EAGERNESS
OF THE EARLY THRASH STUFF.
IT WAS MISSING FOR US,
IN A WAY.
AND WE WERE TRYING
TO INCORPORATE
EVERYTHING WE LIKED
INTO WHAT WE DID.
"DARKNESS DESCENDS," "REIGN IN
BLOOD," "MASTER OF PUPPETS,"
WE WOULD LISTEN
TO ALL THOSE CLASSIC RECORDS
AND TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHA
MADE THEM BIG IN OUR HEARTS,
TRYING TO MAKE I
OUR OWN PRODUCT,
BUT STILL, YOU KNOW,
WITH THIS GOAL
TO BE IMPORTANT IN ONE WAY,
TO MAKE THEM ART.
Dunn: WHAT ARE THE ELEMENTS
OF THE GOTHENBERG SOUND
BORROWED
FROM WHAT THRASH ESTABLISHED?
WELL, IT BORROWS THE SPEED
OF THRASH,
AND IT PEDALS BACK A BI
FROM DEATH METAL'S
COMPLETE ELIMINATION OF MELODY
AND HARMONY
AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
TO A CERTAIN EXTENT,
THE GOTHENBERG THRASH,
MELODIC DEATH-METAL SOUND
IS A REINTERPRETATION,
IF YOU LIKE,
OF AN EARLIER PERIOD
IN METAL HISTORY
WHEN THRASH STILL HAD
ITS CONNECTION
WITH MAINSTREAM HEAVY METAL.
[ IN FLAMES' "ONLY FOR THE WEAK"
PLAYS ]
IT IS ONLY FOR THE WEAK
ON BLEEDING KNEES
I ACCEPT MY FATE
[ MUSIC CONTINUES ]
Dunn: WHY IS THAT SO IMPORTAN
TO YOU, TO HAVE METAL MUSIC
THAT CAN BE PRETTY HEAVY
AND PRETTY EXTREME AT TIMES,
BUT ALSO HAVE
THAT MELODIC ASPECT?
I GUESS IT'S ALWAYS BEEN
SOMETHING THAT --
THAT SWEDES LIKE.
FOLK MUSIC IS VERY MELODIC.
IT'S ALWAYS BEEN
A VERY IMPORTANT PAR
OF THE MUSIC
THAT WE HAVE HERE.
AND IF YOU CAN INCORPORATE
THAT WITH THE FEELING YOU GE
WHEN YOU LISTEN
TO AN AWESOME SLAYER SONG
OR A GREAT METALLICA SONG,
I REALLY, REALLY LOVE
THE AGGRESSION.
IT GETS ME PUMPED UP.
THAT FEELING, IF YOU CAN MIX
THAT WITH THE MELODIES IN THERE,
AND PUT SOME HOOKS IN THERE.
IT'S IN EVERYTHING
THAT WE WRITE,
WE ALWAYS THINK ABOUT THAT.
YOU CAN'T ONLY BE
RHYTHM-BASED.
IT NEEDS TO BE MELODIES
IN THERE.
WHILE ALL THE SWEDISH
OR GOTHENBERG THRASH SCENE
WAS INCORPORATING A LO
OF THE INFLUENCE OF DEATH METAL,
IT IS SORT OF TAKING METAL BACK
TO THAT UNDERLYING THEME
IN THRASH THAT,
WE'RE NOT JUST THE HEAVIEST,
UGLIEST, MEANEST BAND,
BUT WE CAN ACTUALLY PLAY,
AND WE GOT CHOPS.
[ ARCH ENEMY'S
"REVOLUTION BEGINS" PLAYS ]
[ MUSIC CONTINUES ]
Dunn: SWEDISH BANDS WEREN'
THE ONLY ONES
TO PUT THRASH BACK
ON THE METAL MAP.
BY THE EARLY 2000s, LAMB OF GOD,
A BAND FROM RICHMOND, VIRGINIA,
BECAME THE NEXT FORCE
IN EXTREME MUSIC
AND HELPED REINVIGORATE THRASH
IN AMERICA.
LET'S GET THE DANCE FLOOR
STARTED!
[ METAL MUSIC PLAYING ]
Adler: WE WERE ALL HUGE FANS
OF THE THRASH MOVEMENT.
THAT'S WHAT WE GREW UP ON.
WE WERE ALL KIND
OF THESE SUBURBAN WHITE KIDS
THAT, YOU KNOW, SOMEHOW FOUND
THIS MUSIC
AND FELT LIKE WE WERE A PAR
OF SOMETHING.
INSTEAD OF PLAYING SOCCER
OR BEING ON THE CHESS TEAM,
THIS WAS OUR GROUP OF PEOPLE
THAT WE FIT IN WITH.
VERY MUCH,
THAT WAS WHAT WE WERE EMULATING,
BANDS LIKE MEGADETH
AND TESTAMENT AND SLAYER.
THE ORIGINAL THRASH MOVEMENT,
WE CAME LONG AFTER THA
AND LONG AFTER THE SUPPOR
FOR THAT HAD DIED DOWN.
BUT I THINK WE'VE BEEN
A BIG PART OF THE REVIVAL
OF THAT MOVEMENT IN
BRINGING SOME OF THOSE
ELEMENTS BACK INTO METAL
THAT HAVEN'T REALLY BEEN HEARD
IN THE SAME WAY IN 20 YEARS.
Dunn: WAS IT EXCITING TO HEAR
YOUNGER BANDS LIKE LAMB OF GOD
CREATE MUSIC THAT HAD
THAT INTENSITY?
I HAVEN'T HEARD ANYTHING AWESOME
IN A LONG TIME,
AND IT MIGHT HAVE JUST LI
MY FIRE AGAIN.
HAVING A SECOND AWAKENING
OR A REAWAKENING GOING,
I JUST BEEN ASLEEP
FOR 12 YEARS.
AND I GOT TO, LIKE, GET BACK
TO WHAT THE [BLEEP] I WAS DOING
TO START WITH.
LAMB OF GOD TRACKED ME DOWN
AND ASKED ME TO PLAY ON THEIR
ALBUM, "ASHES OF THE WAKE."
AND I THOUGHT, "OKAY,
THIS COULD BE INTERESTING."
AND HE COMES DOWN TO THE STUDIO,
AND HE'S LOOKING AROUND.
HE'S LIKE,
"YEAH, I JUST EXPECTED, LIKE,
"A BUNCH OF DUDES IN JUMPSUITS
AND MAKEUP AND A MESS."
HE'S LIKE,
"YOU GUYS LOOK LIKE WE DID."
[ LAUGHS ]
"LIKE YOU'RE DOING IT AGAIN."
HE'S LIKE, "I CAN'T WAI
TO GET IN THERE AND DO THIS."
IT'S EXCITING TO FEEL
LIKE YOU'VE ACTUALLY
HAD AN INFLUENCE,
THAT SOMEBODY WAS LISTENING
THAT WHOLE TIME.
IT DOES MAKE YOU FEEL GOOD,
THOUGH, YOU KNOW,
TO HAVE PEOPLE YOU RESPEC
AS MUSICIANS
TELL YOU THA
YOUR MUSIC ACTUALLY HAD
SOMETHING TO DO WITH
SHAPING THEM MUSICALLY.
IT MAKES IT FEEL LIKE
YOU WERE DOING IT FOR A REASON.
Dunn:
WHERE IS EXODUS AT TODAY?
IN A GOOD PLACE.
THE BAND'S HUNGRY.
THE BAND'S HEALTHY
AND DRUG FREE.
WE'RE DRIVEN, MOTIVATED,
AND OUT TO PROVE A POIN
THAT WE'RE ONE OF THE VERY
FIRST TWO THAT DID THIS,
AND WE'RE THE BEST AT DOING I
TODAY.
[ METAL MUSIC PLAYING ]
WHY DO YOU THINK THRASH
CONTINUES TO BE
Dunn: A VIABLE FORM OF MUSIC
TODAY?
Osegueda: IT'S JUS
SUCH AN AMAZING RELEASE
TO PLAY, TO LISTEN TO,
AND IT'S UNDENIABLE.
AS LONG AS THERE'S GENERATIONS
COMING UP
THAT ARE INTO REBELLION,
THIS GENRE WILL ALWAYS HAVE
SOME VALIDITY TO IT.
I THINK THE MUSIC IS
FIRST AND FOREMOST.
I THINK THE LYRICS ARE
SOCIALLY RELEVANT.
IF YOU PAY ATTENTION,
YOU GET SOMETHING OUT OF IT.
YOU KNOW, AND IF YOU DON'T CARE,
YOU GET SOMETHING OUT OF I
BECAUSE IT'S GREAT MUSIC.
WE'RE GONNA GO COMPLETELY
FULL CIRCLE HERE.
REBELLION.
AS LONG AS YOUNG PEOPLE
ARE ANGRY AND CONFUSED
AND DON'T KNOW WHO THEY ARE --
AND THAT WILL PROBABLY BE
FOREVER --
THEN SOME OF THEM ARE GONNA BE
ATTRACTED TO MUSIC
THAT MAKES YOU BANG YOUR HEAD
AND MAKES YOU FEEL
THAT YOUR ANGER'S OKAY,
AND THAT YOU CAN DEAL
WITH YOUR ANGER
WHILE STILL EXPRESSING I
AT THE SAME TIME.
IN THAT RESPECT,
THRASH METAL IS AGELESS.
THE THRASH STUFF AND
THE HARDER METAL STUFF SURVIVED
BECAUSE WHEN YOU'RE
FORTUNATE ENOUGH
TO NOT BE PART OF ANYTHING
THAT'S TOO FASHIONABLE,
YOU HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY
TO STICK AROUND
AS ALL THE OTHER FASHIONS AND
THINGS WITHER AWAY, YOU KNOW?
LAST MAN STANDING.
[ METALLICA'S "CYANIDE" PLAYS ]
SUICIDE, I'VE ALREADY DIED
YOU'RE JUST THE FUNERAL
I'VE BEEN WAITING FOR
CYANIDE, LIVING DEAD INSIDE
BREAK THIS EMPTY SHELL
FOREVERMORE
FOREVERMORE
FOREVERMORE
JUST THE FUNERAL
I'VE BEEN WAITING FOR
CYANIDE
[ CHEERS AND APPLAUSE ]
[ "THE TROOPER" BY IRON MAIDEN
PLAYING ]
[ MUSIC CONTINUES
[ WOMAN SPEAKING INDISTINCTLY
OVER P.A. ]
Dunn: SO, WE'RE HERE
AT SOUNDWAVE STUDIOS.
THIS IS THE REHEARSAL STUDIO
WHERE MANY OF
THE BAY AREA THRASH BANDS
HAVE JAMMED FOR A LOT OF YEARS.
AND I'VE WANTED TO COME HERE
AND SEE IT FOR MYSELF
FOR A LONG TIME,
SO LET'S GO IN.
[ METAL MUSIC PLAYING ]
[ TESTAMENT'S "INTO THE PIT"
PLAYS ]
TESTAMENT.
THAT'S A GOOD START.
EXODUS.
[ MUSIC CONTINUES ]
EN VOGUE.
NOT VERY THRASH.
[ MUSIC CONTINUES ]
[ SINGING INDISTINCTLY ]
THRASH IS ONE OF THE FASTEST AND
MOST AGGRESSIVE METAL SUBGENRES,
AND FOR MANY PEOPLE, IT DOESN'
EVEN SOUND LIKE MUSIC.
EVEN FOR SOME DIE-HARD
METAL FANS, IT'S TOO HEAVY.
SO, HOW DID THIS EXTREME STYLE
OF MUSIC
GAIN SUCH A HUGE FANBASE,
PRODUCING SOME OF METAL'S
BIGGEST BANDS
LIKE METALLICA, MEGADETH,
AND SLAYER?
AND WHY DOES IT REMAIN SO VITAL
WHILE OTHER SUBGENRES
HAVE BECOME EXTINCT?
[ SONG ENDS ]
[ "THE TROOPER" BY IRON MAIDEN
PLAYING ]
YOU TAKE MY LIFE,
BUT I'LL TAKE YOURS, TOO
YOU'LL FIRE YOUR MUSKET,
BUT I'LL RUN YOU THROUGH
SO WHEN YOU'RE WAITING
FOR THE NEXT ATTACK
YOU BETTER STAND,
THERE'S NO TURNING BACK
THE BUGLE SOUNDS,
THE CHARGE BEGINS
BUT ON THIS BATTLEFIELD,
NO ONE WINS
THE SMELL OF ACRID SMOKE
AND HORSES' BREATH
AS I PLUNGE
INTO CERTAIN DEATH
OH, OH, OH, OH,
OH, OH, OH, OH, OH
OH, OH, OH, OH,
OH, OH, OH, OH, OH
[ METAL MUSIC PLAYS ]
Dunn: THRASH EMERGED FROM THE
UNDERGROUND IN THE EARLY '80s
AND WAS MUCH MORE EXTREME THAN
METAL STYLES THAT CAME BEFORE I
CONTAINING GRAPHIC LYRICS
ABOUT WARFARE, HUMAN SUFFERING,
AND EVEN SERIAL KILLERS.
BUT BEFORE I EXPLORE
THE EVOLUTION OF THRASH,
I WANT TO KNOW
WHAT KIND OF PEOPLE
WERE INSPIRED TO CREATE
THIS MUSIC.
WE WERE JUST LIVING OU
OUR TWISTED FANTASIES
THAT WERE ILLEGAL TO CARRY OU
IN REAL LIFE.
[ LAUGHS ]
IT'S NOT A DAY GOES BY
I DON'T WANT TO KILL SOMEBODY.
FORTUNATELY,
THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM
FROWNS UPON SUCH THINGS.
I'M ONE OF THE EASIEST-GOING
DUDES YOU'LL EVER SEE
HANGING OUT --
AND YOU KNOW THIS --
BUT YOU PUT ME IN TRAFFIC,
AND I'M -- DUDE,
I'M A DEATH-ROW CRIMINAL.
[ LAUGHS ]
AND I SAVE THAT -- THAT HATRED
AND APPLY IT TO SLAYER LYRICS
IN THE WEIRDEST WAYS, YOU KNOW.
Dunn: WAS YOUR EXPERIENCE
AS A YOUNGSTER FEEDING INTO
THE NEED TO CREATE FASTER,
AGGRESSIVE, INTENSE MUSIC?
I DON'T KNOW THAT WHAT HAPPENED
TO ME AS A KID
CAN DRIVE ANYBODY TO DO ANYTHING
BUT KILL THEIR PARENTS.
FOR ME, WHAT DROVE ME TO WAN
TO PLAY METAL MUSIC
WAS SIMPLY,
I JUST WANTED TOFIT IN.
I JUST WANTED TO BE
A PART OF THINGS.
MY NICKNAME IS A.D. DAVE,
YOU KNOW,
'CAUSE I'M,
LIKE -- I'M A LITTLE HYPER.
IF I'M STILL HYPERACTIVE
AT 45,
AT 16, 17,
I MUST'VE BEEN WHACKED.
I THINK A COMBINATION OF THA
AND THE ENJOYMENT OF PUNK MUSIC,
WHETHER IT WAS CIRCLE JERKS,
DEAD KENNEDYS, MINOR THREAT,
THAT JUST FUELS
WHAT I THINK I HAD ALREADY.
[ METAL MUSIC PLAYING ]
[ SINGING INDISTINCTLY ]
Kahn-Harris:
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT DEFINES
THRASH METAL IN THE EARLY '80s
IS A SENSE OF SERIOUSNESS,
A KIND OF AUSTERITY,
INFLUENCED BY PUNK.
NOT NECESSARILY ALWAYS
BY THE MUSIC OF PUNK,
BUT PERHAPS BY SOME OF
THE ATTITUDE OF PUNK.
PUNK WAS BORN, IN PART,
FROM FRUSTRATION.
PUNK EMERGED AT A TIME
OF GREAT LOSS OF CONFIDENCE
IN THE WES
ABOUT WHERE THE WORLD WAS GOING.
Weinstein: WHEN THRASH STARTED
IN THE EARLY '80s,
THATCHER AND REAGAN
WERE IN CHARGE,
AND WE HAD
A HIGHLY CONSERVATIVE,
VERY RESTRICTIVE KIND
OF SOCIETY.
AND IF YOU'RE A TEENAGER,
ESPECIALLY A TEENAGED MALE,
YUCK,
YOU DON'T WANT TO LIVE IN A
PLACE WHERE THEY ARE IN CHARGE.
THIS MADE MALES FEEL LIKE
THEY HAD TO FIGHT AGAINS
THE SYSTEM
JUST TO STAY IN PLACE,
AND THAT KIND OF AGGRESSION
LEADS TO A SENSE
OF WANTING TO BE LOUDER
AND FASTER.
Dunn: IF YOU LOVED PUNK,
WHY WAS IT THAT YOU DECIDED
TO PLAY THRASH METAL INSTEAD OF
JUST BECOMING A PUNK GUITARIST?
WELL, FOR ME, MUSICIANSHIP
WAS REALLY IMPORTANT.
YOU DIDN'T REALLY HAVE
GREAT GUITAR PLAYERS IN PUNK.
YOU DIDN'T REALLY HAVE
GREAT MUSICIANS IN PUNK.
YOU HAD GREAT SONGS,
BUT AS A MUSICIAN,
I WANTED TO DO MORE,
AND IT SEEMED LIKE THRASH
PROVIDED THE POSSIBILITY
TO APPLY THE MUSICIANSHIP
THAT I'D WORKED SO HARD ON
TO THE ATTITUDE OF PUNK.
[ METAL MUSIC PLAYING ]
THRASH METAL REQUIRES
DEXTERITY AND VIRTUOSITY,
BUT THRASH MUSICIANS DIDN'T FIND
THESE QUALITIES IN PUNK MUSIC.
THE OTHER MAIN INFLUENCE
ON THRASH WAS A GROUP OF BANDS
THAT EMERGED FROM ENGLAND
IN THE LATE '70s
CALLED THE NEW WAVE
OF BRITISH HEAVY METAL.
I KNOW THA
YOU'RE GONNA SCRATCH ME
AND MAIN ME AND MA-A-A-A-UL
YOU KNOW I'M HELPLESS
FROM YOUR MESMERIZING CAT CALL
Dunn: WHAT WAS IT ABOUT THE NEW
WAVE OF BRITISH HEAVY METAL
THAT YOU WERE ATTRACTED TO?
WELL, IT WAS THE ENERGY.
FIRST AND FOREMOST,
THERE WAS A DIFFERENT ENERGY.
THE NEW WAVE OF BRITISH HEAVY
METAL WAS BASICALLY HARD ROCK,
METAL'S ANSWER
TO THE PUNK MOVEMENT.
THERE WERE A BUNCH
OF THE METAL DUDES
THAT TOOK THE ENERGY
AND THE SPIRIT OF PUNK
AND MADE THE RIFTS HEAVIER,
MADE THE RIFTS MORE INTRICATE,
AND THERE WAS JUS
A DIFFERENT LEVEL
OF -- OF JUST KIND
OF MUSICAL WEIGHT TO IT.
I ACTUALLY STARTED
AS A MUSICIAN,
WAS WITH
THE BRITISH INVASION.
AS FAR AS MY GUITAR-PLAYING
STYLE, IT WAS PRETTY MUCH
CRAFTED AROUND THE NEW WAVE
OF BRITISH HEAVY METAL.
THANK GOD FOR ENGLAND, OR I
WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO PLAY A NOTE.
[ LAUGHS ]
THERE WAS CERTAINLY
AN AGGRESSION AND INTENSITY TO,
LIKE, PRIEST AND MAIDEN
AND MOTORHEAD
THAT HADN'T EXISTED IN MUSIC
UNTIL THOSE BANDS CAME.
LISTENING TO SABBATH,
THE GODFATHERS OF HEAVY METAL,
STILL SOME OF THEIR MUSIC WAS
REALLY ROOTED IN THE BLUES.
FOR ME, PRIEST SWEPT ALL
THE BLUES OUT OF THEIR MUSIC.
THAT WAS HEAVY METAL.
WHY WERE YOU DRIVEN TO TAKE
THESE INFLUENCES
AND TURN I
INTO SOMETHING NEW?
DID I KNOW WE WERE DOING
ANYTHING NEW? NO.
WE WERE JUST BASICALLY
RIDING THE COATTAILS OF GIANTS
LIKE MAIDEN AND PRIES
AND THEM
AND JUST DO OUR OWN LITTLE
TWISTED BAY-AREA VERSION OF IT,
YOU KNOW, WHICH WAS TAKE
THE EPIC SONGS OF THEM,
AND WE CHANGED IT ABOUT KILLING
PEOPLE AND [BLEEP] LIKE THAT.
[ METAL MUSIC PLAYING,
SINGING INDISTINCTLY ]
Dunn: THRASH WASN'T JUS
A MIXTURE OF PUNK
IN THE NEW WAVE
OF BRITISH HEAVY METAL.
ITS SCREECHING VOCALS
AND ULTRA-FAST RHYTHM GUITAR
MADE IT A UNIQUE MUSICAL STYLE.
BUT PERHAPS
ITS MOST UNIQUE CHARACTERISTIC
WAS THE RELENTLESS BEA
OF THE DOUBLE BASS DRUM.
SO WHERE DID THIS COME FROM,
AND WHY DID IT BECOME ESSENTIAL
TO THE SOUND OF THRASH?
MAYBE YOU COULD TELL ME
WHY THE DOUBLE BASS
IS IMPORTAN
TO THE SOUND OF THRASH?
Bostaph:
I THINK IT BRINGS A LEVEL
OF EXCITEMENT TO THE MUSIC.
INSTEAD OF JUST GOING,
"BOOM, GAH, DOO, GAH."
I MEAN, GOING --
[ TAPPING FAST BEAT ]
IT'S JUST MORE INTENSE.
AND YOU HEAR
THAT LOW-END THUMP IN,
ESPECIALLY WITH THE GUITARS,
OR IF IT'S COMPLEMENTING
WHAT'S GOING ON,
I THINK THAT'S THE TRUE IDENTITY
OF THRASH MYSELF.
ONE OF THE THINGS THA
THE DOUBLE BASS DRUM DOES
IS IT BREAKS THE MONOTONY
OF THAT VERY FAST BASS SNARE,
BASS SNARE, BASS SNARE,
BASS SNARE.
ADDING DOUBLE BASS CREATES A
SENSE OF VARIETY INTO THE MUSIC,
AND IT CREATES
A RHYTHMIC COMPLEXITY,
AND IT CREATES
A SENSE OF PACE.
IT ADDS RELENTLESSNESS
AND PROPULSION TO THE MUSIC.
[ METAL MUSIC PLAYING ]
Dunn: WHERE DID YOU HEAR
THE DOUBLE-BASS STYLE
BEFORE YOU STARTED
CREATING IT YOURSELF?
FROM MOTORHEAD --
WAS THE FIRST TIME I HEARD
DOUBLE BASS DONE
AT THAT PATTERN.
I'VE HEARD OF
OTHER DOUBLE-BASS DRUMMERS,
BUT I DON'T THINK
THEY DID ANYTHING LIKE THA
AT THAT TEMPO
AND THAT STYLE OF BEAT.
THE DRUMMER
THAT INTRODUCED ME
TO THAT DOUBLE-BASS
TYPE OF THING
WAS PHIL TAYLOR FROM MOTORHEAD
WHEN I FIRST HEARD "OVERKILL"
IN EARLY 1979.
THAT WAS JUS
WHAT BLEW MY HEAD OFF.
[ "OVERKILL" BY MOTORHEAD
PLAYING ]
ONLY WAY TO FEEL THE NOISE
IS WHEN IT'S GOOD AND LOUD
SO COOL I CAN'T BELIEVE IT,
SCREAMING WITH THE CROWD
DON'T SWEAT IT
GET IT BACK TO YOU
Dunn:
THE DOUBLE BASS CLAIM
THAT YOU USED
ON THE SONG "OVERKILL."
Taylor: YEAH.
CAN YOU TELL ME HOW YOU CAME UP
WITH THAT?
I JUST GOT A BRAND-NEW KIT,
AND SO I WAS PRACTICING
ON MY DUAL BASS DRUMS.
AND I WAS JUST GOING --
[TAPPING FEET]
YOU KNOW, LIKE THAT.
AND EDDIE AND LEMMY HAPPENED TO
ARRIVE WHILE I WAS DOING THAT,
AND ACCORDING TO THEM,
THEY SAID THEY STOOD OUTSIDE
THE ROOM,
AND THEY BOTH SAID, "THAT'S
[BLEEP] GOOD" TO EACH OTHER.
AND ONE DAY, ME AND EDDIE
JUST CAME IN THE ROOM
WHILE HE WAS PRACTICING
HIS DOUBLE BASS DRUMS
AND WROTE "OVERKILL."
YOU KNOW.
Dunn:
MOTORHEAD KIND OF SET IN MOTION
THIS KIND OF IMPULSE OR DRIVE
TO PLAY FASTER, LOUDER.
WELL, WE CERTAINLY HELPED A LOT,
YEAH.
WHY DID YOU WAN
TO PLAY FAST?
I DON'T KNOW.
IT WAS JUST, LIKE, IT SEEMED
LIKE A GOOD IDEA AT THE TIME.
YOU PLAY IT ABOU
A THOUSAND MILES AN HOUR.
I CAN TELL YOU THAT.
SO, YOU GUYS ARE GETTING FASTER
WITH AGE.
SEEMS TO BE, YEAH.
I MEAN, WE WANT TO GET OFF STAGE
AND HAVE A REST, YOU KNOW.
GET BACK
IN OUR WHEELCHAIRS.
[ "OVERKILL" PLAYING ]
Dunn: SOME PEOPLE CALL MOTORHEAD
A THRASH METAL BAND.
YES, THEY DO, INDEED.
AND WHY DO YOU THINK
THEY DO THAT?
[ LAUGHS ]
I HAVEN'T GOT A CLUE, REALLY.
I DON'T KNOW.
[ LAUGHS ]
I MEAN, I ONLY EVER ASSOCIATE
THE WORD THRASH
WITH WHAT YOUR DAD DID TO YOU,
YOU KNOW,
WHEN HE WEN
AND TOOK HIS BELT OFF. WHACK!
I MEAN,
I STILL DON'T QUITE KNOW
HOW IT WORKED ITS WAY
INTO THE MUSIC GENRE.
I DID SEE AND HEAR
ALL THE BANDS
THAT SEEM TO BE PLAYING
INCREDIBLY FAST.
WHEN WE FIRST SAW METALLICA
WAS WHEN THEY SUPPORTED US.
CHRIST,
I THINK IT WAS 1982.
AND I REMEMBER AT THE TIME
THINKING,
"[BLEEP], WHAT KIND OF MUSIC
ARE THEY PLAYING?"
'CAUSE IT WAS,
LIKE, SO FAST.
[ METALLICA'S
"PHANTOM LORD" PLAYS ]
Dunn:
MANY PEOPLE REGARD METALLICA
AS THE FIRST THRASH METAL BAND,
SO HOW DID THEY GET STARTED,
AND WHY DID THEIR SOUND CONNEC
WITH SO MANY FANS?
Dunn:
WHEN PEOPLE THINK OF THRASH,
THEY GENERALLY THINK
OF THE BAY AREA,
BUT THAT'S NOT WHERE IT STARTED.
I'VE COME TO L.A.
TO MEET WITH BRIAN SLAGEL,
HEAD OF METAL BLADE RECORDS,
TO FIND OUT HOW HE
AND METALLICA'S LARS ULRICH
HELPED KICKSTART THRASH METAL
IN THIS CITY.
WE ALL LIVED, BREATHED, EAT,
SLEPT, 24 HOURS A DAY, METAL.
IT WAS A SCENE.
IT WAS A CULTURE.
IT WAS A MOVEMENT.
MM-HMM.
AND WE ALL DID
ANYTHING WE COULD.
I COULDN'T PLAY
AN INSTRUMENT.
I WAS TERRIBLE AT IT,
SO THE ONE THING I COULD DO
WAS TRY TO HELP EXPOSE THIS
TO OTHER PEOPLE.
Ulrich: LOS ANGELES,
AT THAT TIME,
WAS FULL OF FM RADIO,
AND IT WASN'T MY BAG.
SO, THERE WAS
A MICHAEL SCHENKER SHOW
UP AT THE PLACE CALLED
THE COUNTRY CLUB
UP BY WHERE BRIAN SLAGEL
LIVED.
SO, I WENT TO THE SHOW,
AND AFTER THE SHOW,
I WAS IN THE PARKING LO
AND SAW A KID
WEARING
A SAXON EUROPEAN TOUR SHIRT.
NOW, NOBODY IN L.A. A
THAT POINT KNEW WHO SAXON WAS.
SO, I RAN UP TO THE KID
AND SAID,
"WHERE'D YOU GET THAT T-SHIRT?"
HE SAID, "OH, I JUST MOVED HERE
FROM EUROPE.
I'M INTO THIS SCENE."
I SAID, "OH, MY GOD,
I'M INTO THIS SCENE, TOO."
BRIAN WAS A MOGUL
IN THE MAKING,
AND HE WANTED TO MAKE
A COMPILATION RECORD
OF THE HEAVIER LOCAL L.A. BANDS,
AND ME AND HETFIELD DROVE UP
WITH OUR LITTLE [BLEEP]
FOSTEX CASSETTE TAPE,
AND HE DID A GOOD JOB, BRIAN,
OF, LIKE, NOT VOMITING
AS HE WAS HEARING
OUR REALLY BADLY RECORDED
VERSION OF "HIT THE LIGHTS."
AND "HIT THE LIGHTS" ENDED UP
ON THE FIRS
"METAL MASSACRE" ALBUM,
EVEN IF THERE WAS
ONE ADDITIONAL "T"
IN THE SPELLING
OF "METALLICA."
THAT WAS SORT OF HOW METALLICA
GOT ITS START WAY BACK.
PLAY NICE
PLAY NI-I-I-I-CE
Dunn: THE METALLICA SONG
"HIT THE LIGHTS"
ON THE METAL MASSACRE
COMPILATION
MARKED THE BEGINNING
OF THRASH METAL,
BUT IN THE EARLY '80s,
L.A. WAS KNOWN FOR A TOTALLY
DIFFERENT STYLE OF METAL --
GLAM METAL.
SO, HOW DID THESE TWO STYLES
OF METAL CO-EXIST?
YOU HAD TO BE IN ONE CORNER
OR THE OTHER.
YOU'RE EITHER
IN THE GLAM METAL CATEGORY,
OR YOU'RE IN
THE HEAVIER CATEGORY.
THE HEAVIER CATEGORY JUS
KIND OF GOT HEAVIER AND HEAVIER.
YOU HAD METALLICA AND OMEN
AND, YOU KNOW, BITCH.
YEAH.
AND THEN SLAYER CAME ALONG
AFTER THAT.
King:
THE WAY THE HAIR METAL BANDS
PRESENTED THEMSELVES WAS ALIEN
TO US.
WE WANTED TO BE THE ANTI-RATT,
THE ANTI-POISON.
Dunn:
FUNNY STORY I'VE HEARD, TOO,
IS THAT YOU GUYS DID WEAR
A LITTLE BIT OF MAKEUP.
YEAH, WE DID.
BUT, YOU KNOW,
THAT'S PART OF BEING IN L.A.
YOU GOT TO WEAR MAKEUP
OF SOME SORT.
WE DIDN'T WAN
TO PRESENT OURSELVES LIKE THAT.
SO, WE SAID, "ALL RIGHT,
EYELINER, DEMONS."
NOT NECESSARILY ALICE COOPER,
BUT THE ANTITHESIS
OF WHAT WAS HAPPENING IN L.A.
YEAH, SLAYER WORE MAKEUP,
OKAY,
BUT, I MEAN, WE JUST WORE
BLACK EYELINER,
WHICH WHAT WE WERE DOING IS
COPYING OZZY AT THE TIME
'CAUSE IT LOOKED EVIL.
BUT IT WASN'T LONG AFTER THA
THAT WE WERE CONVINCED
THAT WE DIDN'T NEED THAT.
Dunn: IN THE FOLKLORE,
IT'S SUGGESTED THAT THERE WAS
A LOT OF ANIMOSITY BETWEEN
HAIR AND THRASH METAL CAMPS.
IS THAT TRUE?
THAT'S NOT --
THAT'S NOT FOLKLORE.
THAT'S REAL BECAUSE
THE HAIR BANDS STOOD FOR GLAM.
I MEAN,
I LOOK AT IT LIKE
GLAM IS THE FLEAS
ON THE CAMEL'S BALLS,
AND THRASH WAS KIND OF LIKE
A FLEA BOMB.
MOTLEY CRUE,
RATT, STEALER, SO ON,
THEY SORT OF REPRESENTED
EVERYTHING THAT WE WERE AGAINST.
THEY WERE LIKE
THE KINGS OF THE SUNSET STRIP.
IT WAS NOT EASY TRYING TO FORCE
OUR WAY INTO THAT WHOLE SETUP.
IT WAS VERY LONELY.
[ LAUGHS ]
I CAN TELL YOU,
IT WAS VERY LONELY
TO BE METALLICA IN L.A. IN 1982.
THERE WAS NOT A LOT OF LOVE
FOR THE TYPE OF THING
THAT WE WERE DOING.
AND SO, WE STARTED PLAYING
SOME SHOWS UP IN SAN FRANCISCO
EVERY THREE, FOUR WEEKS,
AND INSTANTLY,
THINGS STARTED HAPPENING.
WE GOT A FOLLOWING,
SO WE PACKED UP OUR [BLEEP]
AND FINISHED OUR DAY JOBS,
AND WE WERE IN SAN FRANCISCO
PERMANENTLY
FROM EARLY FEBRUARY OF 1983.
DO ALL YOUR AUDIENCES REAC
THE SAME
IN THE DIFFERENT PLACES
YOU PLAY?
UP IN SAN FRANCISCO,
THEY'RE A LOT BETTER.
A LOT BETTER.
THERE'S [BLEEP] IN L.A.
SUCKS.
L.A. SUCKS.
ONE, TWO, THREE --
All: L.A. SUCKS!
[ METAL MUSIC PLAYING ]
Dunn: A SMALL, UNDERGROUND METAL
SCENE WAS DEVELOPING
IN THE BAY AREA
DURING THE EARLY '80s,
BUT IT WASN'T UNTIL METALLICA
ARRIVED IN 1983
THAT THRASH STARTED TO EXPLODE.
Osegueda: I REMEMBER,
WE ALL WENT TO SEE
THIS BAND, METALLICA,
PLAY AT THE KEYSTONE BERKELEY.
AND WE WALKED IN,
AND I JUST [EXHALES SHARPLY]
NEVER SAW ENERGY LIKE THA
IN MY LIFE.
I JUST -- LIKE, THE CROWD EVEN
TRIPPED ME OUT. IT SCARED ME.
IT WAS
JUST TURBOCHARGED MUSIC.
IT WAS SO MUCH HEAVIER
THAN PUNK OR METAL
THAT WE'D HEARD
PUT TOGETHER.
SAN FRANCISCO WAS SO EMBRACING
OF THIS HEAVY MUSIC,
AND METALLICA FEL
THAT ACCEPTANCE
FROM THIS CROWD OF HUNGRY
METALHEADS UP HERE
THAT WEREN'T REALLY AFFECTED
BY WHAT WAS HAPPENING IN L.A.
AT THE TIME.
Holt: PEOPLE IN THE BAY AREA,
YOU KNOW --
THE FIRST TIME
WE PLAYED WITH SLAYER,
THEY HAD THE EYELINER.
THAT [BLEEP] HAD TO GO JUS
TO PLAY A SHOW WITH EXODUS
'CAUSE OUR FANS WERE NOT GONNA
STAND FOR IT.
THEY LOVED SLAYER,
BUT THEY WERE, LIKE,
"YOU CAN'T WEAR MAKEUP
AT AN EXODUS SHOW."
IT WAS JUST A WHOLE DIFFEREN
UNIVERSE UP THERE.
I MEAN, IT WAS
A WHOLE DIFFERENT VIBE.
THERE WAS PASSION.
THE KIDS WERE LIKE US.
THEY WERE JUST KIDS IN LEATHER
AND DENIM JACKETS.
WE JUST INSTANTLY FIT IN,
AND WE FELT SOAT HOME.
IT WAS LIKE SMALL PACK OF DOGS
WITH ALL OF US BANDS,
LIKE FORBIDDEN, EXODUS,
AND DEATH ANGEL, TESTAMENT.
THERE WAS 20 METAL BANDS, SO I
WAS LIKE A PACK OF RABID DOGS.
AND WE WERE ALL A
THE SAME PARTIES AND SAME SHOWS
AND TALKED ABOU
THE SAME THINGS.
Osegueda: RUTHIE'S INN BECAME
THIS MECCA FOR PEOPLE TO GO TO,
NO MATTER WHAT WAS PLAYING.
WHETHER IT WAS PUNK, METAL.
ANY NIGHT, IT'D BE CHOCK FULL
OF METALHEADS AND KIDS IN PUNK.
AND THIS LITTLE PLACE BECAME
THE MARRIAGE OF THE TWO GENRES.
Holt: I THINK THE ONE THING THE
BAY AREA DOESN'T GET ENOUGH OF
IS RECOGNITION FOR ACTUALLY
BEING THE FIRST CROSSOVER REGION
IN AMERICA, NOT NEW YORK.
IF YOU LOOK BACK AT SOME OF
THE OLD RUTHIE'S INN FLYERS,
THERE WAS CONSTANTLY, LIKE,
METAL BANDS PLAYING
WITH PUNK-ROCK GUYS.
WE WERE ON ONE
AT ONE TIME,
AND HE WAS CALLING IT,
"A CROSS-CULTURAL EVENT."
[ LAUGHS ]
IT EVEN SAID ON THE FLYER,
"A CROSS-CULTURAL EVENT."
AND IT WAS LIKE US,
AND THEN THERE WAS PUNK BANDS.
Geist: ONE OF THE HUGEST THINGS
I THINK ABOUT THRASH METAL
AND ITS CROSS FERTILIZATION
WITH PUNK ROCK AND HARD CORE
IS THE WAY THAT THE VIBE
OF A METAL SHOW CHANGED.
THRASH WAS WHEN METAL
DISCOVERED MOSHING, BASICALLY,
AND DISCOVERED STAGE DIVING.
YOU KNOW,
YOU GO TO A SLAYER SHOW,
AND IT'S LIKE BEING CAUGH
IN A PRISON RIOT.
BEFORE, YOU WOULD GO
TO A METAL SHOW,
AND IT'D BE A LO
OF HEAD BANGING, YOU KNOW,
MAYBE RAISE YOUR FIRST,
FLASH THE HORNS.
BUT YOU GO TO A THRASH SHOW --
THE FIRST THING
WITH A THRASH SHOW,
IS IF YOU'RE WEARING THESE,
YOU LEAVE THESE AT HOME
'CAUSE THESE ARE
GETTING BROKEN.
[ METAL MUSIC PLAYING ]
I'VE LISTENED TO THRASH METAL
SINCE THE EARLY '80s.
THE FIRST DEMO TAPE
I GOT FROM THE BAY AREA
WAS THE FIRST LEGACY DEMO.
AND I HEARD ABOUT IT IN A
MAGAZINE CALLED "METAL FORCES,"
THROUGH THIS SECTION CALLED
"PENBANGERS."
PENBANGERS WAS LIKE PEN PALS
FOR HEADBANGERS.
AND I GOT THE DEMO
THROUGH TAPE TRADE.
Weinstein:
IN THE ERA OF THE INTERNET,
PEOPLE WOULD NOT UNDERSTAND
GETTING MAGAZINES
AND 'ZINES THAT HAD ADS
IN THE BOTTOM,
TAPE TRADER INTO, AND YOU NAME,
LIKE, FOUR OR FIVE BANDS,
AND YOU GIVE YOUR ADDRESS,
AND PEOPLE WILL SEND YOU TAPES.
YOU SEND THEM TAPES.
YOU DIDN'T ASK
FOR MONEY.
YOU DIDN'T EXPEC
ANYTHING.
YOU SAT DOWN AND WROTE A LETTER.
[ LAUGHS ]
CAN YOU IMAGINE?
AND YOU PUT A CASSETTE TAPE IN
THERE THAT YOU DUBBED 37 TIMES
TO THE POINT WHERE YOU COULD
HARDLY HEAR WHAT WAS GOING ON,
BUT THAT'S HOW THE MUSIC
GOT AROUND.
IT WAS THE WAY THAT YOU COULD
SHARE THE STUFF
AND FIND OUT ABOUT NEW BANDS,
AND THEN THE GOOD STUFF
GOT LOTS OF NAME CHECKS
IN THOSE PEN PAL LETTERS
THAT WE ALL SA
AND WROTE TO EACH OTHER.
I MEAN, IT'S A LONG, LOST ART.
WE WERE ALREADY SENDING OU
LIVE TAPES OF US,
AND FROM THAT, WE WENT OUT THERE
ON THE "KILL AS ONE" DEMO,
AND WE HIT THE STAGE,
AND PEOPLE WERE YELLING
FOR DEATH ANGEL.
THEY SANG "KILL AS ONE."
THEY KNEW "THRASHERS."
IT'S CRAZY, AND THIS WAS ALL
FROM UNDERGROUND TAPE TRADING,
WHICH MADE THE SCENE.
IT WAS THE ORGANIC
ANALOG INTERNET.
[ DEATH ANGEL'S
"VORACIOUS SOULS" PLAYS ]
[ SINGING INDISTINCTLY ]
Dunn: THROUGH TAPE TRADING,
THRASH METAL'S FANBASE
WAS STARTING TO GROW ACROSS
AMERICA AND AROUND THE WORLD.
AND WHEN METALLICA'S
"NO LIFE 'TIL LEATHER" DEMO
LANDED IN A FLEA MARKE
IN THE SUBURBS OF NEW YORK,
THRASH METAL GO
ITS FIRST RECORD DEAL
THROUGH UPSTART LABEL
MEGAFORCE RECORDS.
THE FIRST TIME WE HEARD
METALLICA
WAS WHEN A FELLOW CAME
INTO OUR STORE
WHO JUST CAME BACK
FROM SAN FRANCISCO.
I THINK HE SAW THEM AT THE MAB,
AND HE HAD THESE TAPES
FROM THE SHOW.
THE FIRST SECOND WE HEARD IT,
YOU KNOW,
MARSHA AND I WERE BOTH,
LIKE, LIKE, STUNNED.
Marsha: IT JUST HAD SUCH BALLS,
SUCH GUTS.
I JUST REMEMBERED BEING
BLOWN AWAY BY IT,
REALLY JUST, HOLY [BLEEP]
SEE, AMERICA DIDN'T HAVE
A WAVE OF HEAVY METAL, REALLY.
METALLICA SURE ANSWERED THAT,
AND IT WAS LIKE THE NEW,
IMPROVED AMERICAN SOUND.
Ulrich: IT WAS ONE OF THOSE
LEGENDARY, HE HEARS IT,
DROPS WHAT HE'S DOING,
RUNS TO THE PAY PHONE, CALLS ME.
AND WITHIN A FEW MINUTES,
THERE'S JUST A LOVEFEST BREWING,
AND IT'S, "COME OUT EAST.
LET'S MAKE A RECORD TOGETHER,"
THE WHOLE NINE YARDS.
Dunn:
SO, YOU STARTED MEGAFORCE
'CAUSE NO ONE WOULD SIGN
METALLICA?
NOBODY WANTED METALLICA.
NOBODY KNEW
WHAT TO DO WITH IT.
WE WENT TO ALL THE MAJORS,
AND THEY JUST SQUIRMED.
THEY JUST DIDN'T KNOW
WHAT TO MAKE OF I
AND WHAT TO DO WITH IT.
JON AND I JUST REALLY BELIEVED
IN THAT RECORD.
I MEAN, WE'D SPENT EVERY MINUTE
IN THE STUDIO.
KNEW IT INSIDE OUT,
AND WE REALLY BELIEVED IN IT.
WE HAVE A DEBUT ALBUM
OUT ON MEGAFORCE RECORDS.
IT'S CALLED "KILL 'EM ALL."
WE'RE GLAD TO KILL ALL YOU
TONIGHT.
WHO WANTS THIS [BLEEP]
[ HORNS HONKING ]
Dunn: BY THE EARLY '80s,
MANY THRASH BANDS HAD RELEASED
INDEPENDENT RECORDS,
AND THE SCENE WAS EXPANDING
BEYOND THE BAY AREA.
BUT IN AUGUST 1984,
METALLICA, ANTHRAX, AND RAVEN
PLAYED NEW YORK'S
ROSELAND BALLROOM,
BRINGING THRASH
OUT OF THE UNDERGROUND
AND ONTO THE RADAR
OF MAJOR LABELS.
IT WAS INCREDIBLE TO, LIKE,
GET ON STAGE
AND OPEN OUR SHOW
WITH "DEATHRIDER"
AND SEE 3,000 KIDS ALL --
ALL HEADBANGING AND SINGING
THE WORDS TO OUR SONGS.
WE COULDN'T BELIEVE IT.
IT WAS INSANE.
IT WAS A CULMINATION OF THREE
YEARS OF HARD WORK TO THAT POIN
AND REHEARSING SEVEN NIGHTS
A WEEK
AND JUST BUSTING OUR ASSES
AND JUST TRYING TO MAKE THIS
HAPPEN.
WE PROMOTED THAT SHOW.
IT WAS 3,500 PEOPLE,
AND EVERYBODY WAS THERE
FROM ALL THE RECORD LABELS,
AND THEY HAD TO SIT THERE
AND SEE THESE PEOPLE
WHO THEY NEVER HEARD OF
PLAY TO SUCH RADICAL DEVOTEES.
THE CROWD WAS NUTS.
AND WHEN JAMES CLIMBED UP
ON THE MONITORS
AND LOOKED AT THE CROWD, SAID,
"GUESS WHO'S BACK IN TOWN?"
THE WHOLE [EXHALES SHARPLY]
PLACE WENT NUCLEAR.
IT WAS THE BIGGEST SHOW
UP TILL THAT POINT.
CERTAINLY THE BIGGEST SHOW THA
ANY OF US HAD BEEN INVOLVED IN
AND THIS SUPER-FRIENDLY GUY
JUST SHOWS UP BACKSTAGE
AND GOT A BIG SMILE ON HIS FACE.
I JUST MADE A BEELINE BACKSTAGE,
WENT PAST SECURITY,
WENT PAST EVERYTHING.
PRACTICALLY BOLTED THE DOOR
TO BACKSTAGE.
THEY KNEW THAT I WAS ECSTATIC
ABOUT THE MUSIC,
AND THAT I WORKED
FOR A MAJOR LABEL.
AND HE, GOD BLESS HIM,
WANTED TO SIGN METALLICA
TO ELEKTRA RECORDS.
IMAGINE THAT.
THAT WAS THE BIGGEST THING
IN THE WORLD.
THE IDEA OF SIGNING
TO A MAJOR LABEL?
LIKE, YOU KNOW, THAT'S
A [BLEEP] DREAM COME TRUE.
AND RAVEN GOT THEIR DEAL
WITH ATLANTIC,
AND METALLICA GOT THEIR DEAL
WITH ELEKTRA.
WE WERE STILL ON MEGAFORCE.
WE DIDN'T GET A DEAL YET,
ALTHOUGH WE GOT SCOUTED
THAT NIGHT.
IT JUST TOOK A COUPLE
OF MORE MONTHS,
YOU KNOW, FOR US TO GET SIGNED.
BUT, YEAH, YOU COULD BASICALLY
SAY ALL THREE BANDS, YOU KNOW,
SIGNED THEIR MAJOR DEALS
FROM PLAYING THAT ROSELAND SHOW.
ALL OF A SUDDEN,
THE MAJOR LABELS BECAME,
"HEY, WHAT'S GOING ON HERE?
PEOPLE SELLING LOTS OF RECORDS.
WE SHOULD GET INVOLVED IN THIS."
SLAYER STARTED TO GE
PRETTY BIG, AND MAJOR LABELS,
THEY'RE ALL COMING, DESCENDING
UPON THEM LIKE CRAZY,
AND YOU KNOW, THEY EVENTUALLY
SIGNED WITH RICK RUBIN'S LABEL.
BUT WHEN SLAYER LEF
AND SIGNED WITH THE MAJORS,
LIKE, HEY, THIS IS A GREAT THING
FOR THESE GUYS
TO TAKE THAT NEXT STEP.
[ METAL MUSIC PLAYING ]
Dunn:
HOW DID THINGS CHANGE FOR YOU
IN TRANSITIONING
FROM METAL BLADE TO DEF JAM?
WE GOT A TOUR BUS.
YOU KNOW, WE WERE
TRAVELING AROUND IN A VAN,
AND GETTING INTO A TOUR BUS
WAS LUXURY.
THE HOTELS WERE MUCH NICER.
WE WEREN'T STAYING AT HOTELS
THAT WERE RENT HOURLY.
Ulrich:
IT WAS KIND OF A CRAZY TIME.
I DON'T THINK WE SLOWED DOWN
LONG ENOUGH TO EVEN TAKE IT IN.
ALL OF A SUDDEN, WE WERE EATING
AND DRINKING BETTER,
AND WE LIKED IT.
[ LAUGHS ]
Mustaine: ONE OF THE EXECUTIVES
OPENS UP HIS DRAWER,
AND THERE'S A MIRROR
FULL OF COKE,
AND I'M, LIKE,
"WE'VE ARRIVED, DAVID."
AND HE LOOKS AT ME AND, LIKE,
"YEAH, HIGH FIVE."
THEM GIVING US CHAMPAGNE
AND A BOX FULL OF NIKE HI-TOPS.
AND THAT'S WHY YOU LOOK
AT ANY OF THOSE PICTURES,
WE WERE IN THESE ROTTEN
BLUE JEANS
AND DISGUSTING, FILTHY,
STAINED T-SHIRTS,
BUT GOD DAMN IT,
WE HAD BRAND NEW SHOES.
WE GOT THEM FROM CAPITOL.
THEY GAVE US BRAND-NEW NIKES.
[ "PEACE SELLS BY MEGADETH"
PLAYING ]
IF THERE'S A NEW WAY
I'LL BE THE FIRST IN LINE
BUT IT BETTER WORK
THIS TIME
Dunn: BY THE MID-'80s,
THRASH WAS FLOURISHING.
BACKED BY MAJOR LABEL SUPPORT,
THRASH BANDS WERE TOURING
THE WORLD
AND CREATING THEIR BIGGEST,
BOLDEST,
AND MOST INFLUENTIAL RECORDS,
CULMINATING
IN WHAT MANY CONSIDER
THE GREATEST THRASH RECORD
OF ALL TIME,
SLAYER'S "REIGN IN BLOOD,"
AN ALBUM THAT REVOLUTIONIZED
THE SOUND OF THRASH METAL.
RIPPING APART,
SEVERING FLESH
GOUGING EYES,
TEARING LIMB FROM LIMB
EXPERIMENTATION, SLOW
INFECTION, INTERNAL DECAY
Lombardo: WE WERE TRYING TO FIND
OURSELVES AT THAT TIME,
AND FINDING OUR SOUND
WAS KEY TO THAT RECORD.
I MEAN, I DON'T WANT TO MAKE
ANY COMPARISONS,
BUT THAT RECORD HAS MAGIC,
LIKE, LET'S SAY AC/DC'S
"HIGHWAY TO HELL."
WHERE THAT ALBUM,
THERE'S SOMETHING ABOUT IT.
IT HAS SOME KIND OF LIFE
TO IT.
King: WE WERE SUCH FANS
OF MERCIFUL FATE AND VENOM.
WE DIDN'T KNOW YOU COULD DO
A RECORD WITHOUT REVERB,
AND ANDY AND RICK RUBIN
PUT EVERY SONG,
EVERY INSTRUMENT, RIGHT HERE
FROM BEGINNING TO END.
NO FRILLS,
NO BELLS AND WHISTLES.
YOU KNOW, IT'S, "HERE IT IS."
YOU'RE EITHER GONNA LIKE IT,
OR YOU'RE GONNA HATE IT.
AND LUCKILY,
WE WROTE GOOD ENOUGH SONGS
WHERE EVERYBODY LIKED IT.
THAT'S WHAT WE DID
ON THAT RECORD.
YOU KNOW, IT'S NO
A VERY AMBIENT RECORD.
IT'S ALL JUST RIGHT IN YOUR FACE
'CAUSE A LO
OF THE METAL RECORDS
THAT I'D HEARD UP TO THAT POINT,
THEY TENDED TO BE
A LITTLE THINNER ON THE LOW END.
A LOT OF THE DOUBLE KICK STUFF
WAS LIKE A TYPEWRITER,
LIKE [IMITATES TYPEWRITER KEYS
CLACKING]
BUT I ALWAYS FEL
THE WHOLE THING COULD
JUST BE BALLSIER AND HEAVIER.
THE IDEA WAS TO HAVE
THE LISTENER
KIND OF BE A PUNCHING BAG,
YOU KNOW?
AND TO HAVE THIS MUSIC GO,
"POW, POW, POW, POW, POW."
SKIN CONTORTION, BONE EROSION,
YOUR LIFE BECOMES YOUR FINE
NECROPHOBIC,
CAN'T CONTROL THE PARANOIA
SCARED TO DIE
THERE WAS MUSIC THAT WAS FINALLY
BEGINNING TO MAKE MONEY.
FOR THE BANDS,
FOR THE RECORD COMPANIES,
FOR THE CONCERT PROMOTERS.
METALLICA AND SLAYER MADE A LO
OF MONEY RIGHT FROM THE START.
SO, IT JUST BECAME NATURAL
THAT THE OTHER RECORD COMPANIES
WANTED THEIR OWN THRASH BAND.
YOU KNOW, I MEAN,
EVEN DEATH ANGEL
GOT SIGNED TO A MAJOR LABEL.
HOW DID THINGS CHANGE ONCE
YOU GUYS WERE ON A MAJOR LABEL?
WE JUST HAD
A MUCH BIGGER BUDGET,
AND WE WERE ABLE TO CREATE
A REALLY WELL-PRODUCED ALBUM.
WE HAD A LOT MORE DIRECTION.
WE RECORDED I
DOWN IN L.A.
WE HAD A FURNISHED APARTMEN
THAT WE LIVED IN, YOU KNOW,
THE WHOLE TIME ALL TOGETHER,
AND JUST CONCENTRATED ON THE --
IMMERSING THE PROJECTS.
IN A HUGE WAY,
AND IT WAS JUST AMAZING.
MAJOR LABELS WOULD SPEND A LO
OF MONEY TO RECORD RECORDS
AND DO VIDEOS AND TOUR SUPPORT,
YOU KNOW, PROMOTION.
IT'S ALWAYS
THIS GROWING PROCESS.
YOU'RE GONNA SELL MORE
AND MORE AND MORE.
TOUR MORE, TOURS GET BIGGER,
BIGGER PRODUCTION.
YOU KNOW, IT'S JUS
THIS BIG, GROWING MACHINE.
SO, METAL REALLY WAS
GOING PRETTY STRONG.
SUDDENLY, THIS HUGE SCENE
OF BANDS MAKING THIS
REALLY GREAT MUSIC,
AND THEY'RE ALL DOING I
AT A VERY HIGH LEVEL,
DOING IT VERY WELL.
ALL OF A SUDDEN,
I GOT A DEMO FROM VOIVOD.
OH, MY GOD,
THIS IS AMAZING.
I GOT A DEMO
FROM SACRIFICE.
I HEARD SODOM AND HELLHAMMER
AND CELTIC FROS
AND THOUGHT,
"OH, MY GOD, THESE ARE AMAZING."
WHEN YOU SEE THAT HAPPENING
ON A GLOBAL LABEL,
YOU SEE REALLY GOOD-QUALITY
BANDS COMING FROM EVERYWHERE.
IT'S, LIKE, "OH, OKAY,
THIS IS NOT JUS
OUR LITTLE THING IN OUR
BACKYARD. IT'S EVERYWHERE."
[ CHEERING ]
Dunn: THRASH WAS NOW METAL'S
FASTEST-GROWING SUBGENRE.
THRASH ALBUMS WERE GOING GOLD
AND PLATINUM.
VIDEOS WERE IN REGULAR ROTATION
ON MTV,
AND ITS FANS WERE NOW
AN INTERNATIONAL SUBCULTURE.
IT WAS EVEN GIVING THE OLD GUARD
OF METAL A RUN FOR ITS MONEY.
Man:
ALL RIGHT, WHO ARE YOU GUYS HERE
TO SEE -- OZZY OR METALLICA?
METALLICA.METALLICA.
HOW COME?
THEY'RE BETTER THAN OZZY.
THEY'RE BETTER
THAN OZZY, YEAH.
THEY'RE GONNA BLOW OZZY
OFF THE STAGE.
METALLICA!
All: METALLICA!
Young man: THEY'RE NEW.
THEY'RE HEAVY. DO HEAVY METAL.
THEY THRASH!
YEAH, THEY DEFINITELY THRASH.
THEY DEFINITELY THRASH.
[ CHEERING ]
[ METAL MUSIC PLAYS ]
[ METAL MUSIC PLAYING ]
I GOT TO HEAR YA!
Dunn: WHEN I WAS A TEENAGER,
THE ULTIMATE DREAM TOUR
WAS THE CLASH OF THE TITANS
FEATURING ANTHRAX, MEGADETH,
AND SLAYER ON THE SAME BILL.
BUT THIS TOUR ALSO FORESHADOWED
A MAJOR TRANSITION
IN HEAVY MUSIC IN AMERICA
BECAUSE THE OPENING BAND
WAS FUTURE GRUNGE SUPERSTARS
ALICE IN CHAINS.
NAME YOUR GOD
AND BLEED THE FREAK
I'D LIKE TO SEE
HOW YOU ALL WOULD BLEED
FOR ME
King: PROBABLY THE MOST IRONIC
THING ABOUT THAT TOUR IS,
ALICE IN CHAINS OPENED IT,
AND THEY BECAME THE NEXT THING,
BIGGER THAN THRASH
WILL EVER BECOME.
I DIDN'T SEE THE GRUNGE THING
OVERTURNING LIFE AS WE KNEW IT.
IT'S STRANGE BECAUSE THE CLASH
OF THE TITANS TOUR
WAS THE PEAK
AND ALSO THE GUILLOTINE
FOR THRASH METAL
BECAUSE IT'S AS BIG AS IT WAS
GONNA GET AT THAT POINT, REALLY.
I MEAN, YOU PU
THE THREE OF US TOGETHER --
ANTHRAX, SLAYER, MEGADETH --
YOU PUT US ON TOUR.
WE'RE SELLING OUT SHEDS
AND ARENAS.
AND THEN AT THE SAME TIME,
WHERE DO YOU GO FROM THERE?
WHERE DID YOU GO
WHEN YOU'VE CREATED
THIS INCREDIBLY FAST,
INTRICATE MUSIC?
BUT IT'S ALSO VERY DENSE.
IT DOESN'T SAY, OBVIOUSLY,
WHERE YOU GO NEXT.
AND I THINK
THE CLASH OF THE TITANS
REFLECTED THE POINT WHERE IT WAS
AS MOST COMMERCIALLY POPULAR,
BUT ALSO WHERE IT WAS JUS
STARTING TO RUN OUT OF IDEAS.
I THINK THE '90s WERE HARD ON
THRASH METAL BECAUSE,
YOU KNOW, BASICALLY,
IT HAD BEEN PLAYED OUT.
THERE'S ONLY SO MANY TIMES
YOU CAN REWRITE
THE SAME RECORD
OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN.
Dunn: HAVE YOU EVER FEL
CONFINED OR CONSTRAINED
BY THAT LABEL, "THRASH"?
YES, I BELIEVE THAT THAT LABEL,
WHILE IT FITS US VERY WELL,
I THINK IT'S LIKE A PAIR
OF TIGHT-FITTING SHOES.
I THINK THAT IT WOULD
BE MUCH COOLER FOR US TO BE
MONIKERED "MEGADETH,"
AND LEFT AT THAT.
IT'S DEFINITELY THRASH,
BUT IT'S SO MUCH MORE.
Ulrich: WE JUST FELT THAT THERE
WAS NOTHING MORE WE COULD DO.
WE HAD A FEAR OF REPETITION,
AND WE HAD A FEAR
OF GETTING STUCK.
AND WE SAW WITH SOME
OF THE OTHER METAL BANDS
THAT WERE OUR PEERS,
THAT THERE WAS A KIND OF
A STATUS QUO ELEMENT,
A SAMENESS TO IT THA
WE JUST FELT WAS NOT FOR US.
[ "ENTER SANDMAN" BY METALLICA
PLAYING ]
Dunn: IN THE EARLY '90s,
THRASH BANDS STARTED TO CHANGE
THEIR SOUND,
AND METALLICA'S "BLACK" ALBUM
WAS THE BAND'S MOST ACCESSIBLE
RECORD TO DATE
AND WAS
A HUGE COMMERCIAL SUCCESS,
SELLING OVER 22 MILLION COPIES.
[ "ENTER SANDMAN" PLAYING ]
SAY YOUR PRAYERS, LITTLE ONE
DON'T FORGET, MY SON
TO INCLUDE EVERYONE
I'LL TUCK YOU IN,
WARM WITHIN
KEEP YOU FREE FROM SIN
TILL THE SANDMAN, HE COMES
THE FIRST NOTES OF
"ENTER SANDMAN," MY JAW DROPPED,
AND I SAID, "THRASH HAS NOW
TO ITS CREDI
"A CLASSIC, ALL-TIME RECORD.
ALL-TIME, YOU KNOW?
THAT COULD COMPETE WITH ANYTHING
ELSE THAT WAS CLASSIC."
ANYBODY THAT SAYS
THE "BLACK" ALBUM
IS NOT A GOOD RECORD IS HIGH,
YOU KNOW?
I MEAN, IT WAS AWESOME.
THEY MADE A RECORD THAT SOUNDED
AS BIG AS ANY POP ALBUM.
Billy:
I CAN REMEMBER THE DAY WHEN I
FIRST HEARD "ENTER SANDMAN."
WOW, YOU KNOW?
IT JUST, LIKE, BLEW ME AWAY.
IT WAS ALL THERE.
SO, WHY DID I FEEL
BETRAYED?
BECAUSE YOU WERE BETRAYED.
[ LAUGHS ]
YOU COULD FEEL
WHAT THEY DID.
I MEAN,
THEY WENT FOR THE GOLD.
THEY GOT THE GOLD,
BUT YOUR SENSE OF WHAT METAL WAS
WASN'T EXACTLY IN THE SOUND.
THEY BROUGHT IN
AN AUDIENCE
WHO DIDN'T HAVE A CLUE
ABOUT METAL.
WHY YOU USE THE WORD "BETRAYAL,"
THAT'S A VERY STRONG WORD.
I CAN CERTAINLY UNDERSTAND THA
PEOPLE WOULD FEEL, YOU KNOW,
"OH, MY GOD, 'ENTER SANDMAN,'
NOTHING ELSE MATTERS.
WHAT HAPPENED?"
BUT IT WAS WHAT WE NEEDED TO DO
FOR OUR OWN SANITY
BECAUSE IF WE HAD MADE
"AND JUSTICE FOR ALL PART TWO,"
THEN THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN
THE SELLOUT, I'M TELLING YOU.
HONESTLY, I WAS -- I DON'T --
I SHOULD SAY IT, WHAT THE HECK?
YEAH, I THREW IT --
I THREW IT DOWN THE STAIRS.
SAID, "WHAT THE HELL'S THIS?"
I COULDN'T BELIEVE IT.
I FELT THAT THE "THRASH"
IN THRASH METAL WAS GONE.
WHEN I SAW THAT,
I FELT IT NOW CONFORM
TO THE MTV STYLE
OF MUSIC PROMOTION.
I NEVER OPENED MYSELF
THIS WAY
LIFE IS OURS,
WE LIVE IT OUR WAY
Dunn: WHAT RULES OF THRASH DID
THEY BREAK ON THE "BLACK" ALBUM?
Weinstein: BALLADS.
WELL, FOR THRASH,
BALLAD'S NO GOOD.
THAT'S AGAINST THE LAW.
THEY MIGHT AS WELL USE KEYBOARDS
AND HAVE A VIOLIN, TOO.
YOU DON'T DO BALLADS.
I REMEMBER GOING WITH MY BUDDY
TO SOME DANCE CLUB.
DON'T ASK ME WHY.
AND I'M, LIKE, FREAKING OUT.
I'M GOING, "THIS IS METALLICA.
"THEY'RE PLAYING METALLICA
AT A DANCE CLUB.
WHAT THE HELL'S GOING ON HERE?
THIS ISN'T RIGHT."
FOREVER TRUSTING YOU AND I
NO, NOTHING ELSE MATTERS
WHEN THE "BLACK" ALBUM CAME OU
AND SOLD 5 BAJILLION COPIES,
THAT BECAME -- FOR ALL THESE
OTHER MAJOR LABELS,
THAT BECAME
THE BENCHMARK FOR,
"OKAY,
WE HAVE A HEAVY-METAL BAND.
HOW DO WE MAKE THEM
METALLICA?"
I THINK MANY OF US TRIED TO
FOLLOW THAT FORK IN THE ROAD,
THE METALLICA FORK.
EVERYBODY, YOU KNOW, THOUGHT IF
WE'D GO A LITTLE MORE LIKE THAT,
WE'LL GARNER THAT AUDIENCE,
AND WE MIGHT, YOU KNOW,
BE ABLE TO FOLLOW
THAT SAME CAREER TRAJECTORY.
SLAYER STAYED TRUE
TO WHAT THEY DID.
IT ABSOLUTELY SHOWS
THAT IT WORKED.
Lombardo: THE RECORD COMPANY DID
COME UP TO US
AND DISCUSS THINGS
IN WHAT THEY WANTED TO DO.
BUT IF IT DIDN'T SIT WELL
WITH THE GUYS IN THE BAND,
WITH ALL OF US,
WE WOULDN'T GO WITH IT.
WE DON'T WANT TO CHANGE.
WE ARE WHO WE ARE.
THIS IS THE WAY WE PLAY.
THIS IS THE STYLE OF SONGS
THAT WE LIKE TO WRITE.
IF YOU'RE GONNA TELL US
TO DO OTHER, YOU KNOW,
WE'RE GONNA TELL YOU
TO [BLEEP] OFF.
THIS WHOLE THING ABOU
THE SELLOUT AND THE, YOU KNOW,
BEING TRUE AND ALL THIS STUFF,
I FELT THAT THERE WERE A LO
OF CONTRADICTIONS IN THA
BECAUSE I FELT THAT THERE WERE
PEOPLE THAT WERE SELLING OU
BY BEING THE SAME,
AND THAT WERE SELLING OU
BY JUST GIVING THE FANS
WHAT THEY WANTED.
I KNOW LARS MENTIONED
YEARS AGO --
AND I THINK HE REFERENCED US --
ABOUT PAINTING YOURSELF INTO A
CORNER AND HAVING NOWHERE TO GO.
AND THAT'S WHY METALLICA KIND OF
BECAME A ROCK BAND FOR A WHILE.
BUT IF I'M IN A CORNER,
I LIKE MY CORNER.
IT'S THE COOLEST CORNER
I'VE EVER BEEN IN.
[ "WAR ENSEMBLE" BY SLAYER
PLAYING ]
PROPAGANDA DEATH ENSEMBLE,
BURIAL TO BE
CORPSES ROTTING
THROUGH THE NIGHT
IN BLOOD LACED MISERY
SCORCHED EARTH THE POLICY
THE REASON FOR THE SIEGE
THE PENDULUM,
IT SHAVES THE BLADE
THE STRAFING AIR BLOOD RAID
Dunn: WHILE SLAYER STAYED
THE COURSE THROUGH THE '90s
MAINTAINING THEIR THRASH STYLE,
MANY THRASH BANDS CHANGED
THEIR SOUND,
BOWING TO THE PRESSURE
OF MAJOR LABELS.
USUALLY THE FIRST LABEL FOR
THE MAJOR WOULD BE PRETTY GOOD
BECAUSE THEY'RE KIND OF LEF
TO THEIR OWN TO MAKE.
AND THEN AFTER THEY DID THAT,
ALL OF A SUDDEN,
THOSE INFLUENCES,
"WELL, YOU KNOW,
YOU NEED TO HAVE A HIT SONG.
"YOU NEED TO LOOK THIS WAY.
YOUR VIDEO NEEDS TO LOOK
THIS WAY."
Holt: MY LEAST FAVORITE ALBUM,
"FORCE OF HABIT,"
WE ACTUALLY DID,
FOR THE FIRST TIME IN MY CAREER,
TRIED TO WRITE MORE FOR
WHAT I THOUGHT THE LABEL WANTED.
IT'S THE FIRST TIME
I DIDN'T WRITE FOR MYSELF.
THE SONGS WE THINK ARE COOL AND
HIP, THEY'RE, LIKE, "NO, NO, NO,
IT'S THE BALLAD WE'RE GONNA PUSH
AND DO THE VIDEO."
WE'RE, LIKE, "WHAT?"
THAT WAS THE BIG CHANGE
BECAUSE THERE'S SOMEONE WHO
HAS THE MONEY WHO'S TELLING US
WHAT PRODUCT THEY WANT US TO DO,
AND HOW THEY WANT US TO WRITE,
HOW THEY WANT US
TO BE PRESENTED.
[ "THE BALLAD" BY TESTAMEN
PLAYING ]
I'M NOT ONE TO SAY
WHERE MY FEELINGS ARE GOING
WHEN THEY WITHER AWAY
I PRAY TO SEE ANOTHER DAY
Skolnick: SOME WRONG DECISIONS
WERE MADE ALONG THE WAY.
IT ALWAYS FELT LIKE
WE WEREN'T QUITE
WHERE WE WERE SUPPOSED TO BE.
IT'S NOT GOOD MUSICIANSHIP
THAT MAKES A SUCCESSFUL BAND.
IT'S GOOD DECISION MAKING.
BANDS WERE GETTING DROPPED OFF
MAJOR LABELS,
AND WE'RE BREAKING UP.
AND WE'RE, LIKE,
"OH, GREAT," YOU KNOW?
WE'RE GONNA PROBABLY BE
OFF ATLANTIC SOON, ANYHOW.
SO AT THAT TIME, IT WAS A BAD,
DARK TIME FOR US AS A BAND
BECAUSE SOMETHING WE HAD STARTED
WAS ENDING.
I ALWAYS SAID IF THIS BECAME,
LIKE, A JOB I DIDN'T LIKE,
I WOULDN'T DO IT, YOU KNOW?
AND I DIDN'T LIKE IT ANYMORE.
SO I STAYED HOME,
JOINED THE PTA.
[ CHUCKLES ]
SCARED THE [BLEEP]
OUT OF THE OTHER PARENTS
AT THE PTA MEETINGS.
IF I HAD IT ALL TO DO OVER
AGAIN, YOU KNOW,
I WOULD HAVE JUST CONTINUED
WRITING SONGS
ABOUT KILLING PEOPLE.
Dunn: BY THE MID-'90s,
MANY THRASH BANDS
HAD ABANDONED THE MOVEMENT,
AND THE GENRE HAD STAGNATED.
THIS GAVE RISE TO SEVERAL
NEW SUBGENRES
THAT WERE EVEN MORE EXTREME
THAN THRASH,
LIKE DEATH METAL, GRINDCORE,
AND BLACK METAL.
STYLES THAT WERE COMPLETELY
VOID OF MELODY
AND FEATURED BLAST BEAT DRUMMING
AND ULTRA LOW, GUTTURAL VOCALS.
BUT JUST WHEN YOU THOUGH
THRASH METAL WAS DEAD,
IT RE-EMERGED
IN A PLACE YOU'D LEAST EXPECT.
[ HEAVY METAL MUSIC PLAYING ]
[ MUSIC CONTINUES ]
WHEN WE STARTED TO START OU
PUTTING OUT RECORDS
AND GETTING THE CHANCE
TO RECORD STUFF,
THE THRASH STUFF WAS
STAYING OUT, IN ONE WAY.
THERE WAS A BIT OF STAGNATION
IN THAT SCENE.
THERE WAS SOMETHING THERE
THAT WAS LOS
THAT WE DIDN'T FIND ANYMORE,
YOU KNOW,
AND THAT WAS THE EAGERNESS
OF THE EARLY THRASH STUFF.
IT WAS MISSING FOR US,
IN A WAY.
AND WE WERE TRYING
TO INCORPORATE
EVERYTHING WE LIKED
INTO WHAT WE DID.
"DARKNESS DESCENDS," "REIGN IN
BLOOD," "MASTER OF PUPPETS,"
WE WOULD LISTEN
TO ALL THOSE CLASSIC RECORDS
AND TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHA
MADE THEM BIG IN OUR HEARTS,
TRYING TO MAKE I
OUR OWN PRODUCT,
BUT STILL, YOU KNOW,
WITH THIS GOAL
TO BE IMPORTANT IN ONE WAY,
TO MAKE THEM ART.
Dunn: WHAT ARE THE ELEMENTS
OF THE GOTHENBERG SOUND
BORROWED
FROM WHAT THRASH ESTABLISHED?
WELL, IT BORROWS THE SPEED
OF THRASH,
AND IT PEDALS BACK A BI
FROM DEATH METAL'S
COMPLETE ELIMINATION OF MELODY
AND HARMONY
AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
TO A CERTAIN EXTENT,
THE GOTHENBERG THRASH,
MELODIC DEATH-METAL SOUND
IS A REINTERPRETATION,
IF YOU LIKE,
OF AN EARLIER PERIOD
IN METAL HISTORY
WHEN THRASH STILL HAD
ITS CONNECTION
WITH MAINSTREAM HEAVY METAL.
[ IN FLAMES' "ONLY FOR THE WEAK"
PLAYS ]
IT IS ONLY FOR THE WEAK
ON BLEEDING KNEES
I ACCEPT MY FATE
[ MUSIC CONTINUES ]
Dunn: WHY IS THAT SO IMPORTAN
TO YOU, TO HAVE METAL MUSIC
THAT CAN BE PRETTY HEAVY
AND PRETTY EXTREME AT TIMES,
BUT ALSO HAVE
THAT MELODIC ASPECT?
I GUESS IT'S ALWAYS BEEN
SOMETHING THAT --
THAT SWEDES LIKE.
FOLK MUSIC IS VERY MELODIC.
IT'S ALWAYS BEEN
A VERY IMPORTANT PAR
OF THE MUSIC
THAT WE HAVE HERE.
AND IF YOU CAN INCORPORATE
THAT WITH THE FEELING YOU GE
WHEN YOU LISTEN
TO AN AWESOME SLAYER SONG
OR A GREAT METALLICA SONG,
I REALLY, REALLY LOVE
THE AGGRESSION.
IT GETS ME PUMPED UP.
THAT FEELING, IF YOU CAN MIX
THAT WITH THE MELODIES IN THERE,
AND PUT SOME HOOKS IN THERE.
IT'S IN EVERYTHING
THAT WE WRITE,
WE ALWAYS THINK ABOUT THAT.
YOU CAN'T ONLY BE
RHYTHM-BASED.
IT NEEDS TO BE MELODIES
IN THERE.
WHILE ALL THE SWEDISH
OR GOTHENBERG THRASH SCENE
WAS INCORPORATING A LO
OF THE INFLUENCE OF DEATH METAL,
IT IS SORT OF TAKING METAL BACK
TO THAT UNDERLYING THEME
IN THRASH THAT,
WE'RE NOT JUST THE HEAVIEST,
UGLIEST, MEANEST BAND,
BUT WE CAN ACTUALLY PLAY,
AND WE GOT CHOPS.
[ ARCH ENEMY'S
"REVOLUTION BEGINS" PLAYS ]
[ MUSIC CONTINUES ]
Dunn: SWEDISH BANDS WEREN'
THE ONLY ONES
TO PUT THRASH BACK
ON THE METAL MAP.
BY THE EARLY 2000s, LAMB OF GOD,
A BAND FROM RICHMOND, VIRGINIA,
BECAME THE NEXT FORCE
IN EXTREME MUSIC
AND HELPED REINVIGORATE THRASH
IN AMERICA.
LET'S GET THE DANCE FLOOR
STARTED!
[ METAL MUSIC PLAYING ]
Adler: WE WERE ALL HUGE FANS
OF THE THRASH MOVEMENT.
THAT'S WHAT WE GREW UP ON.
WE WERE ALL KIND
OF THESE SUBURBAN WHITE KIDS
THAT, YOU KNOW, SOMEHOW FOUND
THIS MUSIC
AND FELT LIKE WE WERE A PAR
OF SOMETHING.
INSTEAD OF PLAYING SOCCER
OR BEING ON THE CHESS TEAM,
THIS WAS OUR GROUP OF PEOPLE
THAT WE FIT IN WITH.
VERY MUCH,
THAT WAS WHAT WE WERE EMULATING,
BANDS LIKE MEGADETH
AND TESTAMENT AND SLAYER.
THE ORIGINAL THRASH MOVEMENT,
WE CAME LONG AFTER THA
AND LONG AFTER THE SUPPOR
FOR THAT HAD DIED DOWN.
BUT I THINK WE'VE BEEN
A BIG PART OF THE REVIVAL
OF THAT MOVEMENT IN
BRINGING SOME OF THOSE
ELEMENTS BACK INTO METAL
THAT HAVEN'T REALLY BEEN HEARD
IN THE SAME WAY IN 20 YEARS.
Dunn: WAS IT EXCITING TO HEAR
YOUNGER BANDS LIKE LAMB OF GOD
CREATE MUSIC THAT HAD
THAT INTENSITY?
I HAVEN'T HEARD ANYTHING AWESOME
IN A LONG TIME,
AND IT MIGHT HAVE JUST LI
MY FIRE AGAIN.
HAVING A SECOND AWAKENING
OR A REAWAKENING GOING,
I JUST BEEN ASLEEP
FOR 12 YEARS.
AND I GOT TO, LIKE, GET BACK
TO WHAT THE [BLEEP] I WAS DOING
TO START WITH.
LAMB OF GOD TRACKED ME DOWN
AND ASKED ME TO PLAY ON THEIR
ALBUM, "ASHES OF THE WAKE."
AND I THOUGHT, "OKAY,
THIS COULD BE INTERESTING."
AND HE COMES DOWN TO THE STUDIO,
AND HE'S LOOKING AROUND.
HE'S LIKE,
"YEAH, I JUST EXPECTED, LIKE,
"A BUNCH OF DUDES IN JUMPSUITS
AND MAKEUP AND A MESS."
HE'S LIKE,
"YOU GUYS LOOK LIKE WE DID."
[ LAUGHS ]
"LIKE YOU'RE DOING IT AGAIN."
HE'S LIKE, "I CAN'T WAI
TO GET IN THERE AND DO THIS."
IT'S EXCITING TO FEEL
LIKE YOU'VE ACTUALLY
HAD AN INFLUENCE,
THAT SOMEBODY WAS LISTENING
THAT WHOLE TIME.
IT DOES MAKE YOU FEEL GOOD,
THOUGH, YOU KNOW,
TO HAVE PEOPLE YOU RESPEC
AS MUSICIANS
TELL YOU THA
YOUR MUSIC ACTUALLY HAD
SOMETHING TO DO WITH
SHAPING THEM MUSICALLY.
IT MAKES IT FEEL LIKE
YOU WERE DOING IT FOR A REASON.
Dunn:
WHERE IS EXODUS AT TODAY?
IN A GOOD PLACE.
THE BAND'S HUNGRY.
THE BAND'S HEALTHY
AND DRUG FREE.
WE'RE DRIVEN, MOTIVATED,
AND OUT TO PROVE A POIN
THAT WE'RE ONE OF THE VERY
FIRST TWO THAT DID THIS,
AND WE'RE THE BEST AT DOING I
TODAY.
[ METAL MUSIC PLAYING ]
WHY DO YOU THINK THRASH
CONTINUES TO BE
Dunn: A VIABLE FORM OF MUSIC
TODAY?
Osegueda: IT'S JUS
SUCH AN AMAZING RELEASE
TO PLAY, TO LISTEN TO,
AND IT'S UNDENIABLE.
AS LONG AS THERE'S GENERATIONS
COMING UP
THAT ARE INTO REBELLION,
THIS GENRE WILL ALWAYS HAVE
SOME VALIDITY TO IT.
I THINK THE MUSIC IS
FIRST AND FOREMOST.
I THINK THE LYRICS ARE
SOCIALLY RELEVANT.
IF YOU PAY ATTENTION,
YOU GET SOMETHING OUT OF IT.
YOU KNOW, AND IF YOU DON'T CARE,
YOU GET SOMETHING OUT OF I
BECAUSE IT'S GREAT MUSIC.
WE'RE GONNA GO COMPLETELY
FULL CIRCLE HERE.
REBELLION.
AS LONG AS YOUNG PEOPLE
ARE ANGRY AND CONFUSED
AND DON'T KNOW WHO THEY ARE --
AND THAT WILL PROBABLY BE
FOREVER --
THEN SOME OF THEM ARE GONNA BE
ATTRACTED TO MUSIC
THAT MAKES YOU BANG YOUR HEAD
AND MAKES YOU FEEL
THAT YOUR ANGER'S OKAY,
AND THAT YOU CAN DEAL
WITH YOUR ANGER
WHILE STILL EXPRESSING I
AT THE SAME TIME.
IN THAT RESPECT,
THRASH METAL IS AGELESS.
THE THRASH STUFF AND
THE HARDER METAL STUFF SURVIVED
BECAUSE WHEN YOU'RE
FORTUNATE ENOUGH
TO NOT BE PART OF ANYTHING
THAT'S TOO FASHIONABLE,
YOU HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY
TO STICK AROUND
AS ALL THE OTHER FASHIONS AND
THINGS WITHER AWAY, YOU KNOW?
LAST MAN STANDING.
[ METALLICA'S "CYANIDE" PLAYS ]
SUICIDE, I'VE ALREADY DIED
YOU'RE JUST THE FUNERAL
I'VE BEEN WAITING FOR
CYANIDE, LIVING DEAD INSIDE
BREAK THIS EMPTY SHELL
FOREVERMORE
FOREVERMORE
FOREVERMORE
JUST THE FUNERAL
I'VE BEEN WAITING FOR
CYANIDE
[ CHEERS AND APPLAUSE ]
[ "THE TROOPER" BY IRON MAIDEN
PLAYING ]
[ MUSIC CONTINUES