Ugly Delicious (2018) s01e06 Episode Script
Fried Chicken
1 I remember when we first came to Tokyo, you took me to Lawson's and we bought a bunch of foods.
- It's one of my favorite things to eat.
- It's amazing.
- Wareheim.
- Oh! - Hey, what's going on? - Hey! - Just browsing.
- Fair enough.
Well, you wanna grab some tasty bites with us? Oh, I'd love to.
- Have you ever had a Calpis before? - What's that? It's like a milky, soda-y beverage.
- I always liked the name.
- I'll try some Calpis.
CALPIS REFRESH & HAPPY Calpis.
Japanese number one citrus milk.
The thing that I love the most about a convenient mart like this - is this.
- Wow! Wow! Wow! Do you get dippies for any of these nuggies? Yeah, we need some dippies.
Uh, dippies Wow! - It has a curry flavor.
- Mmm-hmm.
Gee! Really? It's a personal purchase for me.
They put your magazine in its own bag.
Separate bag.
Thank you.
I needed this.
Just keep on struttin' Keep on struttin' Just keep on struttin' Just keep on struttin' Just keep on struttin' Just keep on struttin' Just keep on struttin' Fell on you Just keep on struttin' Keep on struttin' Listen, okay? I'm really gonna offend every vegetarian or vegan right now, but I, you know, I can't help it.
Of all the animals that you could consume, a chicken seems like it was, like, brought into the world to be eaten.
I've never put chicken in my mouth, and said to myself, "This was a leap.
" You know? No.
This was the bird that you were supposed to have in the front yard and eat.
You sound like you're paraphrasing Ben Franklin.
Chicken is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.
This restaurant we're in, Dooky Chase's, has been the custodian of food for New Orleans for how many years? Probably 70.
This was the one place that black folks could go for a kinda fancy meal.
So this is where my father came to celebrate getting out of law school.
Fried chicken for you all.
- Oh, wow.
- Speak of the devil.
So we can agree it's delicious roasted, it's delicious poached.
Literally, every way you could cook a chicken, it's delicious.
- Right.
- But For me, fried chicken is something that is I can't It's something I have to eat, you know? I think it's something that is universal, it's approachable, it's quick, it's easy, it's inexpensive.
Let's do it.
I mean, you got fried chicken all over the world.
Korean fried chicken.
Chinese literally have, like, thousands of types.
And even in American South, there are all varieties.
The other thing that's funny is seeing how relatively new traditions become "traditions.
" Like Nashville hot chicken.
It wasn't like people were doing that 50, 60 years ago.
Like, a 20, 25-year-old tradition at best, you know? The story behind that is also very interesting, because it was the girlfriend that was being spiteful - to the boyfriend at the time - Is that really true? - Yes.
- Oh, you don't know the story? No.
Brother comes home a little later than he should've.
His wife, his girlfriend decides she gonna fix him.
She's gonna make some fried chicken, just put a whole lot of hot sauce on it.
And it backfires, 'cause he likes it.
This becomes a tradition.
Fried chicken is such an important thing in the South.
It tells a story, just like a lot of our food.
What's neat about hot chicken is there's so many different ways to do it.
You can travel all over and eat fried chicken and get lots of different perspectives.
And so this one is a collection of all my favorite fried chickens I've ever had.
This took about five years to develop before we served it, 'cause, you know, we're a Southern restaurant.
If we serve fried chicken that sucks, you know how embarrassing that is? Like, you can't do that.
- So, this has been in there overnight.
- It's hydrated it.
Yes, yes, yes.
So it's part of the chicken now.
This chicken you could kick across the damn parking lot - and the batter wouldn't come off.
- Again.
Again.
This is the dark arts.
This is sand baggery.
You're not trying to crack it all in there, right? Yeah.
See those cracks and crevices? Those are your crunchies.
See that? That is gonna be insane.
See, I literally just learned something.
'Cause I've never seen fried chicken with a cover on.
That's old-school.
You get those big cast iron chicken fryers they call them.
They come with a lid.
Once I hear it going crazy and I see the bubbles going crazy, I'm gonna take the lid off.
Because you don't want it to get soggy.
Now we want all that water to cook out and get crispy.
I got inspired by all this hot chicken here and, like, what an important part of the culture.
The thing that makes hot chicken hot chicken is that they take the fat out of the pan and mix it with cayenne, and roll the chicken in it.
So you're like frying in fat.
That's not enough, so we're gonna roll it in fat again, with spicy fat, and then hit it with more spices, so that it The spices stick.
So I thought, "Dude, that's awesome.
" So, we took a very similar Oh! Very similar approach.
You would think that he would not get so excited.
Every time we've cooked, this is what you do.
How can you not get pumped up about that? It never gets tired for you, man.
This is chicken fat, bacon fat, country ham, very aged country ham fat, butter and lard.
So that's This just looks Chinese to me now.
Man, that is straight up.
Look at that.
That's chili oil.
Glaze it like that.
This is like a secret mixture of vinegar, hot sauce and a couple other - Things.
Don't worry about it.
- Yeah, look at this.
It has enough acidity to balance out the fat.
Mmm-hmm.
- That's vinegar powder.
- That is really good.
That is outrageous.
Thanks.
Probably the number one variety of fried chicken is fried chicken based from the South.
Nashville hot chicken is a subset of Southern fried chicken unto itself and that has, like, spawned off all sorts of stuff.
There's been a massive boom.
I mean, everybody got If it's a burger place, they're gonna have a hot chicken.
It's crazy.
Every restaurant in town has to have some sort of hot chicken something.
Whether it's a hot chicken pizza, or a hot chicken taco, or a hot chicken pork bun.
But we sort of are the ones that put it on the map.
I will take credit as Bolton's, but we like the dry rub.
- And that's what makes ours different.
- Can you explain to me the dry rub? The dry rub consists of love, peace, joy and happiness.
I'm a little nervous about what's gonna happen.
Truthfully, I've only had the crazy-crazy hot here.
- You had the crazy-crazy hot? - The hottest hottest can go.
Didn't go so well? It was one of the worst, maybe the most painful experience I've ever had.
He says, "What is this hot chicken I've been I gotta check this out.
" I come here.
Knock on the door.
I was like, "Give me the hottest.
I can handle anything.
" Oh! I have, like, one piece in front of me and I eat it as fast as possible.
Really? We get in this truck.
Something's happening.
This is like, you know, ayahuasca or something.
I literally had an out-of-body experience.
I open the door and run out of the moving car.
And I run into the gas station, and I open up a bottle of chocolate milk and I start chugging it.
It's getting everywhere.
And I'm like, "I think I'm gonna literally explode.
" Mmm-hmm.
I've never felt this before in my life! All I know next is I'm rolling around in the grass.
I vomit.
One of the ladies that was inside, she was just shaking her head at me the entire time.
Tried to tell him! Next thing I know, I'm in his flatbed, biting on my belt.
And I burst every blood vessel in my face.
I don't recover for another, like, eight, ten hours.
- Oh, my God.
Bless your heart.
- So, that's what happened.
That's hilarious and awful at the same time.
- I want to try it again.
- Mmm-hmm.
But I want to eat your food without eating like a lunatic.
You want me to get you a knife and a fork and just let you slice off a little bit at a time? Or you gonna go for it the way we eat it? - I want you to teach me how to eat it.
- Okay.
One smoking hot.
One medium.
- Here it comes.
- Oh, beautiful.
This is the way we eat hot chicken.
Pinch it.
That way you don't get pepper on your fingers.
That is brilliant.
So delicious! - It is delicious, but it hurts.
- But we do it anyway.
You're okay over there? You know what I've learned, too, with this bread? It takes some of the heat away.
I'm gonna help you out.
Right when you register it's delicious, you're like, "Oh.
" You're in a battle for your life.
It gives you that rush.
It makes you want more.
And I'm loving life right now.
That's right.
Bolton Matthews cooked it and he spiced it.
And I told him, "Don't overdo it, have mercy today.
" Hey, there! When you hear KFC, what pops into your mind? Even though the idea of cooking chicken in grease certainly cannot be just one country's invention, Kentucky Fried Chicken, and even Chicken Licken, a chain I think is dead in the US, but very much alive in South Africa.
These places has helped inform culinary tastes in other parts of the world.
I also like that this is something we have in common and can enjoy.
One of the best chefs in Tokyo, one of the best chefs in the world has a dish that is inspired by Kentucky Fried Chicken.
Good things can happen out of lowbrow things.
I find Japanese are excellent at frying.
They're excellent at everything.
I mean, for any skill you can imagine, it's just a matter of time before some Japanese person gets obsessed with it and wants to do it and then they're gonna be really good at it.
Right.
You were telling me, though, that, like, you don't eat fried chicken.
I do, but I'm pretty critical of it, because of being from South Carolina.
Is it that much better in South Carolina? There's a huge variance among something that seems pretty simple.
Tell me about growing up eating in South Carolina.
Probably had one of the most unique diets of any person ever, because I would have either Indian food or Southern food cooked by this one woman that kind of took care of us most of the time we were growing up.
Her name was Miss Beulah.
Black woman from South Carolina, amazing cook.
I grew up eating that and then also my mom's Indian food.
What about you? Did you mainly just eat Korean food? Or was there American food that you ate at home? My dad had a business in Richmond, Virginia, so I'd go with him a lot.
Plus I played in lots of golf tournaments there.
And I would eat all these, like 'Cause, like, once you get down to Richmond, it's, like, the proper South, I think.
Beginning of.
So I'd eat all these weird At the time, very weird Southern meals.
Everything you grew up eating was very foreign to me.
And I was probably, like, eight or nine, ten years old when this was happening, so that, like, left a huge impression on me, so What? What? Do you know Kentucky Fried Chicken? Hai! For you.
Very special.
This is pretty amazing.
Take one of me holding mine.
That's such a funny idea.
Wait.
Why does it look like this? What? Mmm! It's so good.
- It's really taking me back to that - Miss Beulah's? Miss Beulah's fried chicken with, like, rice and gravy.
You love KFC? When I eat it, I think it's good.
Rice and Japanese plum is put in here.
Japanese plum I put with rice a lot.
It's sticky rice seasoned with shiso and black sesame.
And you stitch it up with the toothpick.
Weirdly seems like something Kentucky Fried Chicken would do.
"We put the rice in the chicken.
" Chef, what is it about America and fried chicken that you gravitate towards? Japanese people love KFC.
All Japanese people eat KFC at Christmas.
When they think of KFC, they think of Christmas.
- Yeah.
- That's the association.
Do your customers get upset when That you mess with tradition? At the beginning, there was a bit of that, yeah.
But now, everyone loves it.
I mean, I love tradition.
But, if you just keep doing it that way, they won't really like Japanese cuisine, so it's about making that a little more fun, and making it good.
KFC's amazing in Asia.
Mmm-hmm.
And it's a little bit Asian, but for the most part, they're eating Colonel's original recipe.
The reason why KFC crushes it in China is that they need to have a hamburger explained to them.
When they see a bucket of fried chicken - That's Chinese food.
It's communal.
- Right.
You're back to my point about seeing the bird in the yard and going, "That's food.
" - Yeah.
- Yeah.
From the moment we started walking upright, the chicken was doomed.
Check.
Check.
One, two.
One, two.
Check.
I've known Dave for a few years now.
Uh, this is rare, but I'm gonna compliment him right now.
Like, to me, he's actually an artist.
I mean, the guy is fucking He thinks he's fucking right about everything.
I don't know how you guys deal with him.
I mean, he's just arguing with everyone.
He's a table thumper.
He has so many, like, strong opinions about everything.
Sometimes he's right.
Most of the time, he's not.
I don't know, we got into a crazy fried chicken argument last night and now we're gonna test to see whose fast-food fried chicken place is better.
We're going to this Chinese place called Dico's.
It's actually right across from KFC.
- What's the red part? - It's seafood and pork.
- Seafood? - Seafood and pork.
- What? Let me get three of those.
- Three? Yeah.
But can you put it in the bucket? You don't even fuckin' know what's about to happen.
You want some chicken? You want chicken? Dicos? Do you like this chicken? It's good? I'm not as friendly as Choe.
You want chicken? No? They have so much stuff on the menu that they don't have in America.
What the fuck is that? Seafood fried in, like, hot Cheeto dust.
I'm definitely not gonna eat that.
It's no good.
Look at that.
Whole wheat bun with oatmeal on it.
I mean, we don't really need to do this.
I could already tell that KFC's better.
We don't support this.
I just think it's interesting.
I just know that people in China love KFC.
They're everywhere.
I want you to try this.
This is a revelation.
Whoa! Maybe the best commercially-made fried chicken.
- That's so fucking good, man.
- It's Szechuan.
It's, like, making your tongue numb.
- Right? - Amazing.
Amazing.
Is it true that Chinese people love chicken and watermelon? - Yeah.
- Yes? That's what I heard.
I was in Mississippi.
I was in Mississippi doing a show and I go to a restaurant to order some food, and I say to the guy, I say, "I would like to have" And before I even finish my sentence, he says, "The chicken.
" "What the fuck?" Remember Chappelle's angst when he shut down his show? You know, if you're doing that work of addressing these culturally iconic things, things that can either veer into authentic and stereotype in a moment's notice, and go from one to the other without you noticing it? There's that moment where he's using humor to critique racism.
Do you know what you'd like for your in-flight meal? What are you serving? Oh, we have fish or chicken.
I just heard the magic word.
Chicken.
Order you a big bucket, nigga, and take a bite.
You black motherfucker.
He's doing a character that is overtly stereotypic, trying to make a point.
And he sees what may or may not be, 'cause there's no way to know what's in the guy's head, a white guy laughing a little too hard.
And at that moment, he's like, "What am I doing?" And it's that precise moment of vulnerability, it's like, if you want to walk to that fence and deal with it, then you gotta be on the fence.
- Mmm-hmm.
- Fried chicken is kind of on that fence.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You're right.
In terms of its socio-political image, you know? Can you take the cultural history of fried chicken out of it? 'Cause most of the world doesn't even know it.
- Doesn't know, yeah.
- That's true.
When I first moved to the States, I made a dish.
I did fried chicken and watermelon, and my husband is like, "You cannot do that.
" He was like, "That is the most racist thing you can do.
" And for me, I didn't think it was offensive.
It's one of those foods that has sort of stereotypically been associated with us.
Black people during slavery were allowed to keep chickens when you couldn't keep cows and pigs.
- Yardbirds.
- Yeah, exactly.
Right.
So you're keeping chickens.
You're also able to sell them, sell chicken dinners et cetera to raise money for your freedom, or if you're free already, it's a way that you could earn a living.
So that kind of association between black folks and fried chicken goes back because of that.
One thing is for certain.
People love fried chicken, but it's like I didn't know about this stuff with fried chicken.
You're not supposed to link fried chicken, watermelon and black people, or African American culture or history.
You just don't talk about it.
What should we get? Some of my favorites.
I highly recommend the Southern pan-fried chicken.
It's delicious.
Dinners come with two sides.
- White? White.
Okay.
- White? I'll get all dark.
Yeah.
Okay.
Fried chicken white? Fried chicken dark? Right.
I knew it would be weird if I ordered fried chicken, but I wasn't If I ordered something else when we're dining, I didn't Right, right.
- Maybe that looks more weird.
Yeah.
- What does it mean? Yeah.
Everything is so powerful.
Right.
And it's these invisible assumptions we walk around with, or things we know, but don't really know why they're a problem.
Fried chicken dark with black, cornbread dressing.
- Fried chicken white.
- Thanks.
- Beautiful.
That looks great.
- Mmm-hmm.
So you don't feel like Fried chicken explosion around the world.
People are eating a lot of it right now.
- I sell a lot of it.
- Cool.
And, um - Why do people order it? - It's delicious.
It's dawned on me that I've actually never known why black people don't want to be associated with fried chicken.
During enslavement, African Americans weren't frying up buckets of chicken for ourselves, right? Platters of chicken.
We were cooking that for those who enslaved us.
So, black people started being associated with chicken and chicken products in popular culture, right? Big lips, bulging eyes.
The ways that those images are described as cute, as fun, that's what makes them insidious.
That's what makes them evil.
And this is the only perception that you have of black people and chicken.
What's present-day examples of something like this, which is horrifically sad? Well Popeyes.
Are you ready for a cooking lesson, honey? She's a happy, African American woman talking in a very Southern dialect, and the goal is to make everyone happy with the fried chicken.
This is a meal that will make your mama shout.
So that's the modern day version, really, of this kind of thing.
- I love Popeyes' chicken.
- Yeah.
But should I never eat this stuff? I mean, you could also see it as the modern picture of this.
Of black women selling chicken.
You can't tell me that these women, though they were some of the first African American female entrepreneurs in Orange County, Virginia, probably didn't also smile and play the role in order to get their food sold, right? So some of it is playing to the strength, playing to the stereotype.
Where'd you hear about it? I was doing a fried chicken special on TV.
Before we went on, my friend is like, "You're never gonna catch me eating fried chicken on national TV.
" - And I didn't get it.
- Yeah.
I didn't understand it and I don't think I was really aware until I was - Mmm-hmm.
Mmm-hmm.
- You know? Like, eating fried chicken or, like, being told by You know? "Don't eat fried chicken, I will never eat fried chicken in public.
" A single black person carries the weight of the black community on their back.
Because part of being black in America is you get often reduced to the stereotype of angry, lazy, shiftless, chicken-eating black person, and nobody wants to put themselves out there in that way.
Busy Bee is in a historically black area of Atlanta, doing traditional soul food as you could imagine it being served, say, 30 years ago.
But the feel of that place is modern.
Busy Bee exemplifies the ideal of the new South.
Of not abandoning who we were in order to become what someone else thinks we should be.
Fried chicken over here.
- Hello.
- Hi.
I love Pressure fryers are the coolest thing to me.
It's been brined 12 hours, and we don't dip it in milk batter or egg batter or anything.
Giving away your secrets.
Not all of them! You don't close the lid? Not yet.
I let it sit for a little bit because usually when I close it, right when I put the chicken in there, everything sticks together.
Too much moisture, right? Yeah, I let it get a little dry a little bit, then I close it.
- That's just experience there.
- Yeah.
What's appropriate for me to say, black food or soul food? Um, I would say soul food.
If I invite you over and I say, "Hey, Lolis, come over to my apartment.
I'm gonna cook some soul food.
" You're gonna give me a strange look.
You'd be like, "The fuck you saying?" Well, it depends on how you spell "soul.
" So do all big cities in the South have, like, a version of a Busy Bee? All these cities had these places.
The question is, how many of these places have survived? The way I first heard about this place, when a friend of mine did research on the Black Travelers' Green Book.
This was the book that would tell you where, as a black traveler in the South, where you could find lodging, where you could find food, where you could find a hairdresser.
Because you couldn't just stop anywhere.
It could literally be fatal if you went to the wrong place asking to go to the bathroom.
That's just a tremendously good fried chicken.
Mmm-hmm.
This is a black community restaurant that maintains quality and freshness.
Go to these places, they say, "We make the food just like our grandmother made it.
" Well, their grandmother came up in the era of cans and frozen stuff and sometimes the food tastes like the way their grandmother made it in a bad sense.
So my hope is that we're moving back into this direction, and that some of these young black chefs will appreciate these traditions and expand on them in the way that we see people of other traditions expanding on their own indigenous ingredients.
I knew that I wanted to open a restaurant.
Yeah, that was the goal.
For me, it's been a hard road in figuring out my identity as a chef, because I was raised in the South, but what if I wasn't from the South? What if I was from the Midwest? A black guy from the Midwest cooking.
Like - Am I supposed to do Midwest cuisine? - Mmm-hmm.
No.
I'm doing what represents what I feel as a chef should be on my menu, and I wanted people to experience that first and foremost.
My French training, my Italian training and my love for Southern cuisine.
You know, if you're a Southern chef, they figure all you can make - is ham hock and fried chicken.
- And fried chicken.
And If you're a black chef - That's what I wanted to avoid.
- Right.
This dish is kind of like my take on fried chicken without being fried chicken.
I actually didn't want to put fried chicken on my menu.
It's the leg of duck.
We confit it, then we deep fry it.
We're serving it with quinoa, a little bit of duck liver mousse huckleberry gastrique.
Gonna finish it with pickled rhubarb, some shaved rhubarb, and then flowers and herbs from the garden.
You spent a lot of time at the Thomas Keller Group, one of the premier dining groups in the world.
The people of Seattle have embraced you.
You were named best new chef.
One of the best new chefs in the country.
So it seems that your path has been, if not easy, then untainted by racism, or the implications of racism and racial prejudice.
Yes, no, maybe so.
You know, I wanted people to respect me as a chef, and not see me as a chef of color, in the sense, yeah, it's obvious I'm a chef of color, but respect me that I can be one of the best chefs, uh, and point blank, not the best chef of color, but one of the best chefs.
I grew up playing competitive golf.
In 1997, Fuzzy Zoeller made this comment about Tiger Woods to reporters.
It was at Augusta National.
One of the greatest, if not greatest course in the world.
In Georgia, by a white guy, talking about fried chicken.
Uh, little boy's driving it well, and he's putting well.
He's doing everything it takes to win.
So, you know what you guys do when he gets in here? Pat him on the back.
Say congratulations, enjoy it, and tell him not to serve fried chicken next year.
Got it.
All right.
Or collard greens, or whatever the hell they serve.
But check this out, Fuzzy Zoeller did not use any word that applied to race.
He didn't say "black.
" He didn't say "African American.
" He didn't say that and he didn't have to.
You talk about fried chicken, you talk about chitlins, you talk about watermelon.
You're talking about black people.
And then that way, you don't necessarily have to say it and you can code your racism.
And by saying they should serve him fried chicken, he's basically saying, "Well, he might be a great golfer, but he's still a nigger.
" Even if you're the best golfer in the world.
Even if we play golf better than you, even if we're the main ones frying the chicken, somehow we're still three-fifths of a person.
I was in Atlanta and my wife was a youth pastor and we came here as missionaries.
So you decide to open up, I'm gonna say it, "Soul Food?" Actual soul food.
Yeah.
Actual soul food in The Land of the Rising Sun.
- You got fried chicken everywhere.
- Oh, yeah.
But, like, it seems to me that the thing that is still misunderstood is Southern fried chicken.
Mmm Especially with the loaded meaning of it all.
That's a part of why I love living in Japan, because that stereotype is taken so far away from what it used to be.
Yes, it was demeaning in the US, because that's what idiot people thought that black people ate.
And then you come to Japan and it's like, "Welcome to Japan.
Would you like some fried chicken and watermelon?" - Oh, my God.
- But I do like it.
Should people be eating fried chicken without knowing the history behind it? Whether the meaning is known or not, it's knowing that when people walk through these doors, what's most important is that they can taste the love every single time they taste.
That's soul food.
Why am I talking to you, man? I don't know.
Tennessee-style hot chicken.
It's delicious.
Thank you very much.
Having lived here myself, and being Korean And Koreans, I've always felt, historically in Japan, have been seen as second-class citizens, for the most part.
How does it feel to be a black American in Japan? I found out that a lot of Japanese people love black people.
Hmm.
But as for the black community, it was always more, uh, Jamaican, African and African American together.
Half the people, even Africans think I'm African.
Do you wanna be, "No, I'm American.
" Does that matter here? Right now? Probably a good thing.
I'm Canadian.
This is the picture of America that we enjoy seeing.
Because so many different races come here and they eat and, you know, we all just enjoy each other's time.
And that's it.
And that's the way it should be.
Introducing Chicken McNuggets.
- Ooh.
McNuggets.
- McDonald's Okay, so, the reason that I feel like you need to taste nuggets is that you have a history of nugget-eating public Of secret nugget eating.
Uh, I do eat a lot of, like, trash food.
Do you know the origins of the nugget? There were a lot of studies that were released in the '80s about how beef is really bad for you and people stopped going to McDonald's, and McDonald's wanted to retain these customers, and so they had an idea that they would use chicken to bring them back in, which was, like, you know, a healthier, white meat.
So McDonald's commissioned Tyson to build a nugget for them.
So Tyson makes the McDonald's nugget? Yeah.
It's, like, an incredibly automated process.
And when it comes out, the chicken is cut out into the shapes, and they get frozen and shipped.
McDonald's claims that they have four different shapes.
The bell and the boot.
Then it's the ball and the bow, but I mean like, these all look like boots.
We have two batches of nuggets ready.
We have so many chicken nuggets and you guys are gonna cut this down into, like, a 30-second thing where I'm just going Do I need to do this with you, or Yeah.
You need to feed me.
- The whole thing? - That's the gluten-free chicken nugget.
It's very dry.
Is there I should grab water, right? These nuggets are shaped like dinosaurs.
It's like spray foam that's been flavored with chicken.
Why are you throwing away these perfectly good nuggets? This is the crucible of your sadness here.
These are the ones you eat the most frequently? Some would call it sad, but, uh You know.
They're so unoffensive that you could scarf down 30.
Cordon Bleu Chicken Poppers.
- I just don't want to touch it.
- Ew.
Why are you able to press it down? There's no resistance from any chicken.
- Let's move on.
- To hell with that nugget.
I feel like nuggets are a factory of regret.
How could they call this chicken fry? Look.
It's more like a finger.
Wake up, people.
These aren't chicken fries.
They're chicken fingers.
In summary no one should eat chicken nuggets.
Eat something else.
Just prepare a different thing.
Thank you for doing this.
- Sorry.
- No problem.
Let's hug it out.
I just never expected that you would live in Koreatown.
Uh-huh.
And I feel like a real idiot for assuming that someone like you would never live here.
That's okay.
To assume is to make an ass out of you and me.
- So I guess you shouldn't assume anything.
- Yes.
Yeah, I love living in Koreatown.
The food in Koreatown is so goddamn good.
This is just the whole fried chicken, it comes plain with no sauce.
Would you say that is a spatchcocked chicken? It is a spatchcocked fried chicken.
Without the bone in the center.
I just wanted you to know that I knew what spatchcock is.
It's a great name.
- This is delicious.
- Mmm-hmm.
Before the invention of the modern-day Korean fried chicken, - this was Korean fried chicken.
- Yeah.
Exactly.
- Are you guys doing anything to the skin? - Oh, wow.
- Um, it's only just coated in flour.
- It is.
Flour, salt, pepper, that's it.
And this restaurant has been around how long? Um, since, like, the mid-'90s.
Well before the Korean fried chicken craze.
- Exactly.
So it's kinda one of the OGs.
- Mmm.
Hot wings.
It's got, like, a sweet and spicy sauce coated around it.
People come in mostly for this one now, right? - Yeah.
- All right, I'm gonna eat the wing.
Yeah, that's really good.
- Which one do you like? - Well, I like them both.
It's hard to invent something new, and somehow the Koreans invented a new kind of fried chicken.
How would you describe What's the difference? What was the innovation? - It's a double-fried type of thing.
- Uh-huh.
Very thin crust that shatters when you bite into it, with a sweet soy glaze or something that's really spicy.
The weird thing is, I have a version of this in sandwich form.
It's basically a spicy fried chicken sandwich with Korean dressing on it.
But I don't have a Korean name with it.
So maybe I'm part of the problem right now.
Do you miss that? Like, is that a weird thing about becoming a successful chef, - is that you end up cooking less? - Very hot.
I do miss it.
- You're only worried about your station.
- Yeah.
You know everything you need to do.
You can control it.
When you're really good at your job, you can almost intentionally get in the weeds.
- Yeah.
- 'Cause that's fun.
Yeah, it's an interesting thing.
Like, I don't get scared on set to act anymore in the way that I used to.
It's sort of like where you're talking about mastering your station, where, when you first start, it's completely overwhelming.
You're fucking up all the time, you're getting yelled at, and then at a certain point, maybe you could go on autopilot? I don't know what's it like to be a cook.
You can.
And that's where you get in trouble.
If you're not nervous or nauseous every day, - then you're gonna regress.
- Yeah.
So there are a lot of similarities in cooking and acting.
I think there are.
Because, like, this innovation happens because someone does it every day.
It's like, "Well, I can make this a little bit better or a little bit different.
" And then it just keeps on going.
Where do you think it's gonna go? If kimchi can become popular in my lifetime, then anything can happen with Korean food.
But I think it's inevitable that you're gonna see Korean fried chicken - on menus at Ruby Tuesdays or TGI Fridays.
- Mmm-hmm.
Um, I don't know how I feel about that.
I think it's One hand, it's fantastic, and another hand, it makes me sad.
- Yeah.
- Yeah.
I guess that's the whole thing, right? - Yeah, progress.
- Progress, is it? If I grew up in Nashville, and I ate Bolton's fried chicken as a kid, and then I got into cooking, and I left fine dining, and I wanted to open up a restaurant, my initial reaction, first thing, 'cause comedians or actors or writers, you always go to your first things in your life.
I'd probably be like, "Oh, I want to make a fried chicken shop.
And I want to do it as a homage to Bolton's.
I love it so much and I respect it so much, I want to make the best damn version possible.
" So, can you tell me a little about the history of it? My father opened a meat and three in Franklin, Cool Springs, kind of a south suburb of Nashville.
I started working with him out there.
And so he'd go to Bolton's or Prince's or Pepperfire, and he'd bring it back, and we just put together our own blend, and then people started ordering it.
I think that's kind of when he realized we had something.
And so it was kind of this sort of falling back in love with something that, uh, you grew up eating and always knew was very much a Nashville thing.
People are queued up outside.
They love your restaurant, and from what I've tasted so far, I want to crush this.
Another point is, are you aware of what critics say about you guys? Yeah, yeah, yes.
You guys are white guys selling something that was based on something that was not of your culture.
Well, we're gonna do it right, and we're gonna be respectful of it.
And I don't think the way that people may have 20 years ago, 100 years ago, 200 years ago, so Yeah, I have to live for today and to try to be a good person.
As someone that is crushing your food, and loves your food This is really good, man, by the way.
- I don't have that burden, right? - Mmm-hmm.
- But you do, and you do.
- Yeah.
How do you be respectful? I can't tackle all of the bigger stuff by myself, I just know that as long as we're good sort of tenants of it, um, that's the best we can do.
I'll always pay an homage to the Prince's and being able to tell that story of Bolton's, and kinda the people that paved the way before we ever were even thought of.
You're adding value, you're adding to the community, but what if you start killing the very thing that inspired this? - You kill Prince's, you kill Bolton's.
- Yeah, that's the scary part.
When we take it on as our obsession and passion, there's a lot of stuff that comes along with that.
You know? There's a lot of stuff that comes along with that.
And that's a lot more complex than just cooking food.
Stuff that on the front end, you would have never thought about, 'cause you just wanted to make good food, right? Progress is change and change is progress.
You hope for the best.
Right.
Now, do you eat hot chicken anywhere else outside of Bolton's? No.
How do you feel about other establishments selling hot chicken? I think everybody has something to offer.
Some people came in on a commercial end, and benefited off of it.
But they don't have an idea of what authentic hot chicken is, but they go for it, and to each his own.
It cuts a little bit but, you know, you just shake it off and go on.
'Cause we know what we got, we know what we do.
Would you ever open up in a more traditionally more affluent community? Yes, but everybody can't afford that $4,000, $5,000 rent.
I like Hattie B's.
It's delicious.
I think though, that one of the things is, you've never marketed for, intentionally, a whiter, more affluent audience.
That's what they come for though.
They wanted a place where they could feel comfortable and have beer and enjoy hot chicken.
And they jumped on the opportunity.
- Do you begrudge them for that? - No.
I'm amazed that you're able to keep it as calm and cool and loving as you are.
Well, that comes from just having love in your heart, and knowing when you do what's right, and do the best that you can do, in what you do, you're gonna always be maintained and sustained.
So we just go with the flow.
Whoever comes through that door gets the same respect.
I guess with fried chicken, then, or just soul food in general, too, how to If I was, for instance I see a lot of white guys making Korean food, and I'll be honest, it pisses the shit out of me.
'Cause it's everywhere now.
Kimchi this, kimchi that.
I'm like, "You weren't ostracized in elementary school, 'cause everyone thought, when they visited your house, it smelled like garbage.
" Right? Like, they didn't have to endure emotional hardship.
And now it's cool, and But when you close your eyes and taste it, does it always taste like it lacks that? I can't like it.
It's impossible for me to like.
- I am sorry.
I can't like it.
- See, but that I will pick that fight with you, 'cause I actually think that the American experience is actually an experience of cultural appropriation.
It's what we do best.
We are the greatest mutts that history ever put together.
And we drag everything through the collective, and it comes out different.
We wouldn't have anything without it.
So, we're at the Buford Highway Farmers Market.
For me and my fellow chefs in Atlanta, it's like a dream market.
The global world is literally at your fingertips here.
I never thought that I would have access to the ingredients that I have access to today.
It's really a thing of beauty for a chef who is an immigrant chef like me.
I showcase very regional Indian cuisine.
It's the region that I come from, which is the southern tip of India.
I was raised Roman Catholic.
I grew up eating beef and pork.
So it's very different than the natural assumption that Americans have of Indian cuisine.
So an important part of my fried chicken recipe is the coconut oil.
I have a lot of herbs that goes into my brine.
I do a buttermilk brine with mint, cilantro, green chili.
Ah! Yes.
Every time I make this fried chicken, people tend to think it's my Southern American influence, and I have to let them know that every culture figured out if you drenched a bird in flour and deep fried it, it was probably gonna be good.
I think everybody has a fried bird, and this is my mama's fried bird.
Is it always boneless? I only do boneless, skinless chicken thigh.
Why? You tell me if I need to leave the skin on for next time.
No, I'm excited to try it.
Can I taste the marinade? - Um, it's raw chicken.
- I'm okay.
Okay.
People are probably freaking out right now, but I'm scared of raw chicken.
- That almost tastes like kimchi to me.
- Really? Because of the ginger and the garlic and the salt.
And it's heavy on the garlic.
That coconut oil is awesome.
It does everything to this chicken, I'm telling you.
And then this is a mixture of garam masala, chili and salt.
But if I'm not familiar with garam masala, most people will probably think it tastes like some kind of curry powder, right? - Exactly, and it's not.
- But it's not.
We don't have anything called curry powder in India.
- All right, you guys ready to dig in? - I'm so excited.
- Mmm.
- Oh, yeah! - That's so good.
- Yes? Man, boy, slow down.
The chicken dead, it ain't going nowhere.
This is really unique.
Have you ever tasted anything like this? - I have not.
- All Kerala, all the way here.
I did not expect this.
It's very good.
I'm gonna try really hard not to steal any ideas.
I always say, what I put on a plate is the sum total of my life experience, right? You know, don't call my food "fusion.
" I hate that word.
It's the other F word.
Let me ask you this though, 'cause you're doing all this cooking in Atlanta.
Which calls itself something "the New South," the sort of international South.
Do you see that? Do you see the sense of other countries and cultures coming to land and prosper here? Absolutely.
Yeah, I see it among my fellow American chefs in the way their cooking has been influenced.
This is where it is good to have some authenticity, right? 'Cause I'm always, like, trying to push any boundary, but at some point there's too much mixture, right? - We are there.
- I think it's about telling a story.
It's great if it's supporting it, but if people can't own the story, then I think it loses its power.
Salare is its own identity now.
It is me, but how do I top Salare? And how do I present myself to the fullest? My Southern roots just kept calling, saying, "All right, let's do a Southern restaurant.
Let's do a Southern Restaurant.
" Ended up finding this space that became available right down the street.
What I did is I named it, actually, after my father.
It's called Junebaby.
And so this is my new baby here.
One of the things that's been striking to me is that so many of the emblematic Southern chefs now are white.
That was honestly one of the driving forces which made me want to open up Junebaby.
I noticed that a lot of people of color who did all the cooking were forgotten about.
And now Southern food became popular because white chefs were cooking Southern food.
I'm like, "What happened to the Willie Mae's and the Chase?" Why aren't they getting that same highlight as these new up and coming hipster stars cooking the food we've been cooking for years? It's important to know our history.
Let's talk about it, let's celebrate it.
To understand, like, this food is built on the struggle.
So these have been soaking overnight, 12 to 16 hours.
A little bit of buttermilk and salt.
You told me that y'all only do fried chicken on Sunday night.
But the roots of it starts with West African slaves coming over, cooking it in palm oil over an open fire.
It didn't happen every day.
And these franchised restaurants make us assume that fried chicken can be enjoyed every day.
And it shouldn't be, but it's delicious and you want to be enjoying it.
Seems like you got two missions here.
You're trying to serve people food they like, but it also looks like you're trying to educate people.
I'm not trying to be like a teacher or a political activist for Southern food right now.
If it happens, it happens, but I want to be able to cook good food.
I want to be able to tell the story on it, so that people can understand the significance of it.
I'm tripping on seeing tweezers in the kitchen these days as well.
It's just to toss and turn, but we don't do tweezer work.
That was that fine dining that I started out with.
As I found myself, I knew I actually didn't want to be a tweezer restaurant.
There's no plucking.
We cooking food for flavor here.
I guess I am living up to tradition, cooking fried chicken, Southern restaurant.
I'm gonna live up to tradition eating it.
You're damn right you should.
All right, all right.
I'm going for the wings.
I'm going for the thigh.
Whoo! That's juicy.
Did you see that? It's all over me.
Oh, man.
I was too busy listening to the music of the crust.
Mmm-hmm.
- Oh, yeah.
- Mmm-hmm.
I'm happy with that.
- Mmm-hmm.
- Mmm-hmm.
We've come full circle.
Things African American are being appreciated in ways that they haven't been before.
The hope is that we can realize that we can embrace each other across our differences, and not necessarily use these things as cudgels to beat each other over the head.
What would you like to see happen with these powerful subjects in food with black culture? Do you want them to Is the goal eventually they'll just go away? What I really want is for people, African American people in particular, to not be ashamed of their histories.
We tend to want to bury it.
And yet, it's the root of everything that we experience in today's society.
It's this harmless little bird that is packed with some horrific stuff.
The three of us understand some things about this country most white Americans cannot teach themselves.
The idea of the immigrants defining and redefining America has been going on since at least the 1600s, when the British first came here without no goddamn papers, and nobody arrested their ass.
Preach.
Go on and get that spicy piece.
I know you want that last spicy piece.
Go ahead.
It's like My passion for Southern food is very intense.
And food is the gateway, is the link, is the connecting piece that allows people to share their realities and perspectives.
So, hopefully, the racism Hopefully, that behavior changes when there's more knowledge there, there's more compassion there, there's more empathy there.
Everything done here is done by the heart.
People of all nationalities, creed, color, origin break bread together and be happy together.
Full of love, peace, joy and happiness.
And the best you can do, maybe, is by using it as inspiration, an homage, and giving credit where credit is due, and doing your best to execute the best goddamn thing you can possibly do.
- It's one of my favorite things to eat.
- It's amazing.
- Wareheim.
- Oh! - Hey, what's going on? - Hey! - Just browsing.
- Fair enough.
Well, you wanna grab some tasty bites with us? Oh, I'd love to.
- Have you ever had a Calpis before? - What's that? It's like a milky, soda-y beverage.
- I always liked the name.
- I'll try some Calpis.
CALPIS REFRESH & HAPPY Calpis.
Japanese number one citrus milk.
The thing that I love the most about a convenient mart like this - is this.
- Wow! Wow! Wow! Do you get dippies for any of these nuggies? Yeah, we need some dippies.
Uh, dippies Wow! - It has a curry flavor.
- Mmm-hmm.
Gee! Really? It's a personal purchase for me.
They put your magazine in its own bag.
Separate bag.
Thank you.
I needed this.
Just keep on struttin' Keep on struttin' Just keep on struttin' Just keep on struttin' Just keep on struttin' Just keep on struttin' Just keep on struttin' Fell on you Just keep on struttin' Keep on struttin' Listen, okay? I'm really gonna offend every vegetarian or vegan right now, but I, you know, I can't help it.
Of all the animals that you could consume, a chicken seems like it was, like, brought into the world to be eaten.
I've never put chicken in my mouth, and said to myself, "This was a leap.
" You know? No.
This was the bird that you were supposed to have in the front yard and eat.
You sound like you're paraphrasing Ben Franklin.
Chicken is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.
This restaurant we're in, Dooky Chase's, has been the custodian of food for New Orleans for how many years? Probably 70.
This was the one place that black folks could go for a kinda fancy meal.
So this is where my father came to celebrate getting out of law school.
Fried chicken for you all.
- Oh, wow.
- Speak of the devil.
So we can agree it's delicious roasted, it's delicious poached.
Literally, every way you could cook a chicken, it's delicious.
- Right.
- But For me, fried chicken is something that is I can't It's something I have to eat, you know? I think it's something that is universal, it's approachable, it's quick, it's easy, it's inexpensive.
Let's do it.
I mean, you got fried chicken all over the world.
Korean fried chicken.
Chinese literally have, like, thousands of types.
And even in American South, there are all varieties.
The other thing that's funny is seeing how relatively new traditions become "traditions.
" Like Nashville hot chicken.
It wasn't like people were doing that 50, 60 years ago.
Like, a 20, 25-year-old tradition at best, you know? The story behind that is also very interesting, because it was the girlfriend that was being spiteful - to the boyfriend at the time - Is that really true? - Yes.
- Oh, you don't know the story? No.
Brother comes home a little later than he should've.
His wife, his girlfriend decides she gonna fix him.
She's gonna make some fried chicken, just put a whole lot of hot sauce on it.
And it backfires, 'cause he likes it.
This becomes a tradition.
Fried chicken is such an important thing in the South.
It tells a story, just like a lot of our food.
What's neat about hot chicken is there's so many different ways to do it.
You can travel all over and eat fried chicken and get lots of different perspectives.
And so this one is a collection of all my favorite fried chickens I've ever had.
This took about five years to develop before we served it, 'cause, you know, we're a Southern restaurant.
If we serve fried chicken that sucks, you know how embarrassing that is? Like, you can't do that.
- So, this has been in there overnight.
- It's hydrated it.
Yes, yes, yes.
So it's part of the chicken now.
This chicken you could kick across the damn parking lot - and the batter wouldn't come off.
- Again.
Again.
This is the dark arts.
This is sand baggery.
You're not trying to crack it all in there, right? Yeah.
See those cracks and crevices? Those are your crunchies.
See that? That is gonna be insane.
See, I literally just learned something.
'Cause I've never seen fried chicken with a cover on.
That's old-school.
You get those big cast iron chicken fryers they call them.
They come with a lid.
Once I hear it going crazy and I see the bubbles going crazy, I'm gonna take the lid off.
Because you don't want it to get soggy.
Now we want all that water to cook out and get crispy.
I got inspired by all this hot chicken here and, like, what an important part of the culture.
The thing that makes hot chicken hot chicken is that they take the fat out of the pan and mix it with cayenne, and roll the chicken in it.
So you're like frying in fat.
That's not enough, so we're gonna roll it in fat again, with spicy fat, and then hit it with more spices, so that it The spices stick.
So I thought, "Dude, that's awesome.
" So, we took a very similar Oh! Very similar approach.
You would think that he would not get so excited.
Every time we've cooked, this is what you do.
How can you not get pumped up about that? It never gets tired for you, man.
This is chicken fat, bacon fat, country ham, very aged country ham fat, butter and lard.
So that's This just looks Chinese to me now.
Man, that is straight up.
Look at that.
That's chili oil.
Glaze it like that.
This is like a secret mixture of vinegar, hot sauce and a couple other - Things.
Don't worry about it.
- Yeah, look at this.
It has enough acidity to balance out the fat.
Mmm-hmm.
- That's vinegar powder.
- That is really good.
That is outrageous.
Thanks.
Probably the number one variety of fried chicken is fried chicken based from the South.
Nashville hot chicken is a subset of Southern fried chicken unto itself and that has, like, spawned off all sorts of stuff.
There's been a massive boom.
I mean, everybody got If it's a burger place, they're gonna have a hot chicken.
It's crazy.
Every restaurant in town has to have some sort of hot chicken something.
Whether it's a hot chicken pizza, or a hot chicken taco, or a hot chicken pork bun.
But we sort of are the ones that put it on the map.
I will take credit as Bolton's, but we like the dry rub.
- And that's what makes ours different.
- Can you explain to me the dry rub? The dry rub consists of love, peace, joy and happiness.
I'm a little nervous about what's gonna happen.
Truthfully, I've only had the crazy-crazy hot here.
- You had the crazy-crazy hot? - The hottest hottest can go.
Didn't go so well? It was one of the worst, maybe the most painful experience I've ever had.
He says, "What is this hot chicken I've been I gotta check this out.
" I come here.
Knock on the door.
I was like, "Give me the hottest.
I can handle anything.
" Oh! I have, like, one piece in front of me and I eat it as fast as possible.
Really? We get in this truck.
Something's happening.
This is like, you know, ayahuasca or something.
I literally had an out-of-body experience.
I open the door and run out of the moving car.
And I run into the gas station, and I open up a bottle of chocolate milk and I start chugging it.
It's getting everywhere.
And I'm like, "I think I'm gonna literally explode.
" Mmm-hmm.
I've never felt this before in my life! All I know next is I'm rolling around in the grass.
I vomit.
One of the ladies that was inside, she was just shaking her head at me the entire time.
Tried to tell him! Next thing I know, I'm in his flatbed, biting on my belt.
And I burst every blood vessel in my face.
I don't recover for another, like, eight, ten hours.
- Oh, my God.
Bless your heart.
- So, that's what happened.
That's hilarious and awful at the same time.
- I want to try it again.
- Mmm-hmm.
But I want to eat your food without eating like a lunatic.
You want me to get you a knife and a fork and just let you slice off a little bit at a time? Or you gonna go for it the way we eat it? - I want you to teach me how to eat it.
- Okay.
One smoking hot.
One medium.
- Here it comes.
- Oh, beautiful.
This is the way we eat hot chicken.
Pinch it.
That way you don't get pepper on your fingers.
That is brilliant.
So delicious! - It is delicious, but it hurts.
- But we do it anyway.
You're okay over there? You know what I've learned, too, with this bread? It takes some of the heat away.
I'm gonna help you out.
Right when you register it's delicious, you're like, "Oh.
" You're in a battle for your life.
It gives you that rush.
It makes you want more.
And I'm loving life right now.
That's right.
Bolton Matthews cooked it and he spiced it.
And I told him, "Don't overdo it, have mercy today.
" Hey, there! When you hear KFC, what pops into your mind? Even though the idea of cooking chicken in grease certainly cannot be just one country's invention, Kentucky Fried Chicken, and even Chicken Licken, a chain I think is dead in the US, but very much alive in South Africa.
These places has helped inform culinary tastes in other parts of the world.
I also like that this is something we have in common and can enjoy.
One of the best chefs in Tokyo, one of the best chefs in the world has a dish that is inspired by Kentucky Fried Chicken.
Good things can happen out of lowbrow things.
I find Japanese are excellent at frying.
They're excellent at everything.
I mean, for any skill you can imagine, it's just a matter of time before some Japanese person gets obsessed with it and wants to do it and then they're gonna be really good at it.
Right.
You were telling me, though, that, like, you don't eat fried chicken.
I do, but I'm pretty critical of it, because of being from South Carolina.
Is it that much better in South Carolina? There's a huge variance among something that seems pretty simple.
Tell me about growing up eating in South Carolina.
Probably had one of the most unique diets of any person ever, because I would have either Indian food or Southern food cooked by this one woman that kind of took care of us most of the time we were growing up.
Her name was Miss Beulah.
Black woman from South Carolina, amazing cook.
I grew up eating that and then also my mom's Indian food.
What about you? Did you mainly just eat Korean food? Or was there American food that you ate at home? My dad had a business in Richmond, Virginia, so I'd go with him a lot.
Plus I played in lots of golf tournaments there.
And I would eat all these, like 'Cause, like, once you get down to Richmond, it's, like, the proper South, I think.
Beginning of.
So I'd eat all these weird At the time, very weird Southern meals.
Everything you grew up eating was very foreign to me.
And I was probably, like, eight or nine, ten years old when this was happening, so that, like, left a huge impression on me, so What? What? Do you know Kentucky Fried Chicken? Hai! For you.
Very special.
This is pretty amazing.
Take one of me holding mine.
That's such a funny idea.
Wait.
Why does it look like this? What? Mmm! It's so good.
- It's really taking me back to that - Miss Beulah's? Miss Beulah's fried chicken with, like, rice and gravy.
You love KFC? When I eat it, I think it's good.
Rice and Japanese plum is put in here.
Japanese plum I put with rice a lot.
It's sticky rice seasoned with shiso and black sesame.
And you stitch it up with the toothpick.
Weirdly seems like something Kentucky Fried Chicken would do.
"We put the rice in the chicken.
" Chef, what is it about America and fried chicken that you gravitate towards? Japanese people love KFC.
All Japanese people eat KFC at Christmas.
When they think of KFC, they think of Christmas.
- Yeah.
- That's the association.
Do your customers get upset when That you mess with tradition? At the beginning, there was a bit of that, yeah.
But now, everyone loves it.
I mean, I love tradition.
But, if you just keep doing it that way, they won't really like Japanese cuisine, so it's about making that a little more fun, and making it good.
KFC's amazing in Asia.
Mmm-hmm.
And it's a little bit Asian, but for the most part, they're eating Colonel's original recipe.
The reason why KFC crushes it in China is that they need to have a hamburger explained to them.
When they see a bucket of fried chicken - That's Chinese food.
It's communal.
- Right.
You're back to my point about seeing the bird in the yard and going, "That's food.
" - Yeah.
- Yeah.
From the moment we started walking upright, the chicken was doomed.
Check.
Check.
One, two.
One, two.
Check.
I've known Dave for a few years now.
Uh, this is rare, but I'm gonna compliment him right now.
Like, to me, he's actually an artist.
I mean, the guy is fucking He thinks he's fucking right about everything.
I don't know how you guys deal with him.
I mean, he's just arguing with everyone.
He's a table thumper.
He has so many, like, strong opinions about everything.
Sometimes he's right.
Most of the time, he's not.
I don't know, we got into a crazy fried chicken argument last night and now we're gonna test to see whose fast-food fried chicken place is better.
We're going to this Chinese place called Dico's.
It's actually right across from KFC.
- What's the red part? - It's seafood and pork.
- Seafood? - Seafood and pork.
- What? Let me get three of those.
- Three? Yeah.
But can you put it in the bucket? You don't even fuckin' know what's about to happen.
You want some chicken? You want chicken? Dicos? Do you like this chicken? It's good? I'm not as friendly as Choe.
You want chicken? No? They have so much stuff on the menu that they don't have in America.
What the fuck is that? Seafood fried in, like, hot Cheeto dust.
I'm definitely not gonna eat that.
It's no good.
Look at that.
Whole wheat bun with oatmeal on it.
I mean, we don't really need to do this.
I could already tell that KFC's better.
We don't support this.
I just think it's interesting.
I just know that people in China love KFC.
They're everywhere.
I want you to try this.
This is a revelation.
Whoa! Maybe the best commercially-made fried chicken.
- That's so fucking good, man.
- It's Szechuan.
It's, like, making your tongue numb.
- Right? - Amazing.
Amazing.
Is it true that Chinese people love chicken and watermelon? - Yeah.
- Yes? That's what I heard.
I was in Mississippi.
I was in Mississippi doing a show and I go to a restaurant to order some food, and I say to the guy, I say, "I would like to have" And before I even finish my sentence, he says, "The chicken.
" "What the fuck?" Remember Chappelle's angst when he shut down his show? You know, if you're doing that work of addressing these culturally iconic things, things that can either veer into authentic and stereotype in a moment's notice, and go from one to the other without you noticing it? There's that moment where he's using humor to critique racism.
Do you know what you'd like for your in-flight meal? What are you serving? Oh, we have fish or chicken.
I just heard the magic word.
Chicken.
Order you a big bucket, nigga, and take a bite.
You black motherfucker.
He's doing a character that is overtly stereotypic, trying to make a point.
And he sees what may or may not be, 'cause there's no way to know what's in the guy's head, a white guy laughing a little too hard.
And at that moment, he's like, "What am I doing?" And it's that precise moment of vulnerability, it's like, if you want to walk to that fence and deal with it, then you gotta be on the fence.
- Mmm-hmm.
- Fried chicken is kind of on that fence.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You're right.
In terms of its socio-political image, you know? Can you take the cultural history of fried chicken out of it? 'Cause most of the world doesn't even know it.
- Doesn't know, yeah.
- That's true.
When I first moved to the States, I made a dish.
I did fried chicken and watermelon, and my husband is like, "You cannot do that.
" He was like, "That is the most racist thing you can do.
" And for me, I didn't think it was offensive.
It's one of those foods that has sort of stereotypically been associated with us.
Black people during slavery were allowed to keep chickens when you couldn't keep cows and pigs.
- Yardbirds.
- Yeah, exactly.
Right.
So you're keeping chickens.
You're also able to sell them, sell chicken dinners et cetera to raise money for your freedom, or if you're free already, it's a way that you could earn a living.
So that kind of association between black folks and fried chicken goes back because of that.
One thing is for certain.
People love fried chicken, but it's like I didn't know about this stuff with fried chicken.
You're not supposed to link fried chicken, watermelon and black people, or African American culture or history.
You just don't talk about it.
What should we get? Some of my favorites.
I highly recommend the Southern pan-fried chicken.
It's delicious.
Dinners come with two sides.
- White? White.
Okay.
- White? I'll get all dark.
Yeah.
Okay.
Fried chicken white? Fried chicken dark? Right.
I knew it would be weird if I ordered fried chicken, but I wasn't If I ordered something else when we're dining, I didn't Right, right.
- Maybe that looks more weird.
Yeah.
- What does it mean? Yeah.
Everything is so powerful.
Right.
And it's these invisible assumptions we walk around with, or things we know, but don't really know why they're a problem.
Fried chicken dark with black, cornbread dressing.
- Fried chicken white.
- Thanks.
- Beautiful.
That looks great.
- Mmm-hmm.
So you don't feel like Fried chicken explosion around the world.
People are eating a lot of it right now.
- I sell a lot of it.
- Cool.
And, um - Why do people order it? - It's delicious.
It's dawned on me that I've actually never known why black people don't want to be associated with fried chicken.
During enslavement, African Americans weren't frying up buckets of chicken for ourselves, right? Platters of chicken.
We were cooking that for those who enslaved us.
So, black people started being associated with chicken and chicken products in popular culture, right? Big lips, bulging eyes.
The ways that those images are described as cute, as fun, that's what makes them insidious.
That's what makes them evil.
And this is the only perception that you have of black people and chicken.
What's present-day examples of something like this, which is horrifically sad? Well Popeyes.
Are you ready for a cooking lesson, honey? She's a happy, African American woman talking in a very Southern dialect, and the goal is to make everyone happy with the fried chicken.
This is a meal that will make your mama shout.
So that's the modern day version, really, of this kind of thing.
- I love Popeyes' chicken.
- Yeah.
But should I never eat this stuff? I mean, you could also see it as the modern picture of this.
Of black women selling chicken.
You can't tell me that these women, though they were some of the first African American female entrepreneurs in Orange County, Virginia, probably didn't also smile and play the role in order to get their food sold, right? So some of it is playing to the strength, playing to the stereotype.
Where'd you hear about it? I was doing a fried chicken special on TV.
Before we went on, my friend is like, "You're never gonna catch me eating fried chicken on national TV.
" - And I didn't get it.
- Yeah.
I didn't understand it and I don't think I was really aware until I was - Mmm-hmm.
Mmm-hmm.
- You know? Like, eating fried chicken or, like, being told by You know? "Don't eat fried chicken, I will never eat fried chicken in public.
" A single black person carries the weight of the black community on their back.
Because part of being black in America is you get often reduced to the stereotype of angry, lazy, shiftless, chicken-eating black person, and nobody wants to put themselves out there in that way.
Busy Bee is in a historically black area of Atlanta, doing traditional soul food as you could imagine it being served, say, 30 years ago.
But the feel of that place is modern.
Busy Bee exemplifies the ideal of the new South.
Of not abandoning who we were in order to become what someone else thinks we should be.
Fried chicken over here.
- Hello.
- Hi.
I love Pressure fryers are the coolest thing to me.
It's been brined 12 hours, and we don't dip it in milk batter or egg batter or anything.
Giving away your secrets.
Not all of them! You don't close the lid? Not yet.
I let it sit for a little bit because usually when I close it, right when I put the chicken in there, everything sticks together.
Too much moisture, right? Yeah, I let it get a little dry a little bit, then I close it.
- That's just experience there.
- Yeah.
What's appropriate for me to say, black food or soul food? Um, I would say soul food.
If I invite you over and I say, "Hey, Lolis, come over to my apartment.
I'm gonna cook some soul food.
" You're gonna give me a strange look.
You'd be like, "The fuck you saying?" Well, it depends on how you spell "soul.
" So do all big cities in the South have, like, a version of a Busy Bee? All these cities had these places.
The question is, how many of these places have survived? The way I first heard about this place, when a friend of mine did research on the Black Travelers' Green Book.
This was the book that would tell you where, as a black traveler in the South, where you could find lodging, where you could find food, where you could find a hairdresser.
Because you couldn't just stop anywhere.
It could literally be fatal if you went to the wrong place asking to go to the bathroom.
That's just a tremendously good fried chicken.
Mmm-hmm.
This is a black community restaurant that maintains quality and freshness.
Go to these places, they say, "We make the food just like our grandmother made it.
" Well, their grandmother came up in the era of cans and frozen stuff and sometimes the food tastes like the way their grandmother made it in a bad sense.
So my hope is that we're moving back into this direction, and that some of these young black chefs will appreciate these traditions and expand on them in the way that we see people of other traditions expanding on their own indigenous ingredients.
I knew that I wanted to open a restaurant.
Yeah, that was the goal.
For me, it's been a hard road in figuring out my identity as a chef, because I was raised in the South, but what if I wasn't from the South? What if I was from the Midwest? A black guy from the Midwest cooking.
Like - Am I supposed to do Midwest cuisine? - Mmm-hmm.
No.
I'm doing what represents what I feel as a chef should be on my menu, and I wanted people to experience that first and foremost.
My French training, my Italian training and my love for Southern cuisine.
You know, if you're a Southern chef, they figure all you can make - is ham hock and fried chicken.
- And fried chicken.
And If you're a black chef - That's what I wanted to avoid.
- Right.
This dish is kind of like my take on fried chicken without being fried chicken.
I actually didn't want to put fried chicken on my menu.
It's the leg of duck.
We confit it, then we deep fry it.
We're serving it with quinoa, a little bit of duck liver mousse huckleberry gastrique.
Gonna finish it with pickled rhubarb, some shaved rhubarb, and then flowers and herbs from the garden.
You spent a lot of time at the Thomas Keller Group, one of the premier dining groups in the world.
The people of Seattle have embraced you.
You were named best new chef.
One of the best new chefs in the country.
So it seems that your path has been, if not easy, then untainted by racism, or the implications of racism and racial prejudice.
Yes, no, maybe so.
You know, I wanted people to respect me as a chef, and not see me as a chef of color, in the sense, yeah, it's obvious I'm a chef of color, but respect me that I can be one of the best chefs, uh, and point blank, not the best chef of color, but one of the best chefs.
I grew up playing competitive golf.
In 1997, Fuzzy Zoeller made this comment about Tiger Woods to reporters.
It was at Augusta National.
One of the greatest, if not greatest course in the world.
In Georgia, by a white guy, talking about fried chicken.
Uh, little boy's driving it well, and he's putting well.
He's doing everything it takes to win.
So, you know what you guys do when he gets in here? Pat him on the back.
Say congratulations, enjoy it, and tell him not to serve fried chicken next year.
Got it.
All right.
Or collard greens, or whatever the hell they serve.
But check this out, Fuzzy Zoeller did not use any word that applied to race.
He didn't say "black.
" He didn't say "African American.
" He didn't say that and he didn't have to.
You talk about fried chicken, you talk about chitlins, you talk about watermelon.
You're talking about black people.
And then that way, you don't necessarily have to say it and you can code your racism.
And by saying they should serve him fried chicken, he's basically saying, "Well, he might be a great golfer, but he's still a nigger.
" Even if you're the best golfer in the world.
Even if we play golf better than you, even if we're the main ones frying the chicken, somehow we're still three-fifths of a person.
I was in Atlanta and my wife was a youth pastor and we came here as missionaries.
So you decide to open up, I'm gonna say it, "Soul Food?" Actual soul food.
Yeah.
Actual soul food in The Land of the Rising Sun.
- You got fried chicken everywhere.
- Oh, yeah.
But, like, it seems to me that the thing that is still misunderstood is Southern fried chicken.
Mmm Especially with the loaded meaning of it all.
That's a part of why I love living in Japan, because that stereotype is taken so far away from what it used to be.
Yes, it was demeaning in the US, because that's what idiot people thought that black people ate.
And then you come to Japan and it's like, "Welcome to Japan.
Would you like some fried chicken and watermelon?" - Oh, my God.
- But I do like it.
Should people be eating fried chicken without knowing the history behind it? Whether the meaning is known or not, it's knowing that when people walk through these doors, what's most important is that they can taste the love every single time they taste.
That's soul food.
Why am I talking to you, man? I don't know.
Tennessee-style hot chicken.
It's delicious.
Thank you very much.
Having lived here myself, and being Korean And Koreans, I've always felt, historically in Japan, have been seen as second-class citizens, for the most part.
How does it feel to be a black American in Japan? I found out that a lot of Japanese people love black people.
Hmm.
But as for the black community, it was always more, uh, Jamaican, African and African American together.
Half the people, even Africans think I'm African.
Do you wanna be, "No, I'm American.
" Does that matter here? Right now? Probably a good thing.
I'm Canadian.
This is the picture of America that we enjoy seeing.
Because so many different races come here and they eat and, you know, we all just enjoy each other's time.
And that's it.
And that's the way it should be.
Introducing Chicken McNuggets.
- Ooh.
McNuggets.
- McDonald's Okay, so, the reason that I feel like you need to taste nuggets is that you have a history of nugget-eating public Of secret nugget eating.
Uh, I do eat a lot of, like, trash food.
Do you know the origins of the nugget? There were a lot of studies that were released in the '80s about how beef is really bad for you and people stopped going to McDonald's, and McDonald's wanted to retain these customers, and so they had an idea that they would use chicken to bring them back in, which was, like, you know, a healthier, white meat.
So McDonald's commissioned Tyson to build a nugget for them.
So Tyson makes the McDonald's nugget? Yeah.
It's, like, an incredibly automated process.
And when it comes out, the chicken is cut out into the shapes, and they get frozen and shipped.
McDonald's claims that they have four different shapes.
The bell and the boot.
Then it's the ball and the bow, but I mean like, these all look like boots.
We have two batches of nuggets ready.
We have so many chicken nuggets and you guys are gonna cut this down into, like, a 30-second thing where I'm just going Do I need to do this with you, or Yeah.
You need to feed me.
- The whole thing? - That's the gluten-free chicken nugget.
It's very dry.
Is there I should grab water, right? These nuggets are shaped like dinosaurs.
It's like spray foam that's been flavored with chicken.
Why are you throwing away these perfectly good nuggets? This is the crucible of your sadness here.
These are the ones you eat the most frequently? Some would call it sad, but, uh You know.
They're so unoffensive that you could scarf down 30.
Cordon Bleu Chicken Poppers.
- I just don't want to touch it.
- Ew.
Why are you able to press it down? There's no resistance from any chicken.
- Let's move on.
- To hell with that nugget.
I feel like nuggets are a factory of regret.
How could they call this chicken fry? Look.
It's more like a finger.
Wake up, people.
These aren't chicken fries.
They're chicken fingers.
In summary no one should eat chicken nuggets.
Eat something else.
Just prepare a different thing.
Thank you for doing this.
- Sorry.
- No problem.
Let's hug it out.
I just never expected that you would live in Koreatown.
Uh-huh.
And I feel like a real idiot for assuming that someone like you would never live here.
That's okay.
To assume is to make an ass out of you and me.
- So I guess you shouldn't assume anything.
- Yes.
Yeah, I love living in Koreatown.
The food in Koreatown is so goddamn good.
This is just the whole fried chicken, it comes plain with no sauce.
Would you say that is a spatchcocked chicken? It is a spatchcocked fried chicken.
Without the bone in the center.
I just wanted you to know that I knew what spatchcock is.
It's a great name.
- This is delicious.
- Mmm-hmm.
Before the invention of the modern-day Korean fried chicken, - this was Korean fried chicken.
- Yeah.
Exactly.
- Are you guys doing anything to the skin? - Oh, wow.
- Um, it's only just coated in flour.
- It is.
Flour, salt, pepper, that's it.
And this restaurant has been around how long? Um, since, like, the mid-'90s.
Well before the Korean fried chicken craze.
- Exactly.
So it's kinda one of the OGs.
- Mmm.
Hot wings.
It's got, like, a sweet and spicy sauce coated around it.
People come in mostly for this one now, right? - Yeah.
- All right, I'm gonna eat the wing.
Yeah, that's really good.
- Which one do you like? - Well, I like them both.
It's hard to invent something new, and somehow the Koreans invented a new kind of fried chicken.
How would you describe What's the difference? What was the innovation? - It's a double-fried type of thing.
- Uh-huh.
Very thin crust that shatters when you bite into it, with a sweet soy glaze or something that's really spicy.
The weird thing is, I have a version of this in sandwich form.
It's basically a spicy fried chicken sandwich with Korean dressing on it.
But I don't have a Korean name with it.
So maybe I'm part of the problem right now.
Do you miss that? Like, is that a weird thing about becoming a successful chef, - is that you end up cooking less? - Very hot.
I do miss it.
- You're only worried about your station.
- Yeah.
You know everything you need to do.
You can control it.
When you're really good at your job, you can almost intentionally get in the weeds.
- Yeah.
- 'Cause that's fun.
Yeah, it's an interesting thing.
Like, I don't get scared on set to act anymore in the way that I used to.
It's sort of like where you're talking about mastering your station, where, when you first start, it's completely overwhelming.
You're fucking up all the time, you're getting yelled at, and then at a certain point, maybe you could go on autopilot? I don't know what's it like to be a cook.
You can.
And that's where you get in trouble.
If you're not nervous or nauseous every day, - then you're gonna regress.
- Yeah.
So there are a lot of similarities in cooking and acting.
I think there are.
Because, like, this innovation happens because someone does it every day.
It's like, "Well, I can make this a little bit better or a little bit different.
" And then it just keeps on going.
Where do you think it's gonna go? If kimchi can become popular in my lifetime, then anything can happen with Korean food.
But I think it's inevitable that you're gonna see Korean fried chicken - on menus at Ruby Tuesdays or TGI Fridays.
- Mmm-hmm.
Um, I don't know how I feel about that.
I think it's One hand, it's fantastic, and another hand, it makes me sad.
- Yeah.
- Yeah.
I guess that's the whole thing, right? - Yeah, progress.
- Progress, is it? If I grew up in Nashville, and I ate Bolton's fried chicken as a kid, and then I got into cooking, and I left fine dining, and I wanted to open up a restaurant, my initial reaction, first thing, 'cause comedians or actors or writers, you always go to your first things in your life.
I'd probably be like, "Oh, I want to make a fried chicken shop.
And I want to do it as a homage to Bolton's.
I love it so much and I respect it so much, I want to make the best damn version possible.
" So, can you tell me a little about the history of it? My father opened a meat and three in Franklin, Cool Springs, kind of a south suburb of Nashville.
I started working with him out there.
And so he'd go to Bolton's or Prince's or Pepperfire, and he'd bring it back, and we just put together our own blend, and then people started ordering it.
I think that's kind of when he realized we had something.
And so it was kind of this sort of falling back in love with something that, uh, you grew up eating and always knew was very much a Nashville thing.
People are queued up outside.
They love your restaurant, and from what I've tasted so far, I want to crush this.
Another point is, are you aware of what critics say about you guys? Yeah, yeah, yes.
You guys are white guys selling something that was based on something that was not of your culture.
Well, we're gonna do it right, and we're gonna be respectful of it.
And I don't think the way that people may have 20 years ago, 100 years ago, 200 years ago, so Yeah, I have to live for today and to try to be a good person.
As someone that is crushing your food, and loves your food This is really good, man, by the way.
- I don't have that burden, right? - Mmm-hmm.
- But you do, and you do.
- Yeah.
How do you be respectful? I can't tackle all of the bigger stuff by myself, I just know that as long as we're good sort of tenants of it, um, that's the best we can do.
I'll always pay an homage to the Prince's and being able to tell that story of Bolton's, and kinda the people that paved the way before we ever were even thought of.
You're adding value, you're adding to the community, but what if you start killing the very thing that inspired this? - You kill Prince's, you kill Bolton's.
- Yeah, that's the scary part.
When we take it on as our obsession and passion, there's a lot of stuff that comes along with that.
You know? There's a lot of stuff that comes along with that.
And that's a lot more complex than just cooking food.
Stuff that on the front end, you would have never thought about, 'cause you just wanted to make good food, right? Progress is change and change is progress.
You hope for the best.
Right.
Now, do you eat hot chicken anywhere else outside of Bolton's? No.
How do you feel about other establishments selling hot chicken? I think everybody has something to offer.
Some people came in on a commercial end, and benefited off of it.
But they don't have an idea of what authentic hot chicken is, but they go for it, and to each his own.
It cuts a little bit but, you know, you just shake it off and go on.
'Cause we know what we got, we know what we do.
Would you ever open up in a more traditionally more affluent community? Yes, but everybody can't afford that $4,000, $5,000 rent.
I like Hattie B's.
It's delicious.
I think though, that one of the things is, you've never marketed for, intentionally, a whiter, more affluent audience.
That's what they come for though.
They wanted a place where they could feel comfortable and have beer and enjoy hot chicken.
And they jumped on the opportunity.
- Do you begrudge them for that? - No.
I'm amazed that you're able to keep it as calm and cool and loving as you are.
Well, that comes from just having love in your heart, and knowing when you do what's right, and do the best that you can do, in what you do, you're gonna always be maintained and sustained.
So we just go with the flow.
Whoever comes through that door gets the same respect.
I guess with fried chicken, then, or just soul food in general, too, how to If I was, for instance I see a lot of white guys making Korean food, and I'll be honest, it pisses the shit out of me.
'Cause it's everywhere now.
Kimchi this, kimchi that.
I'm like, "You weren't ostracized in elementary school, 'cause everyone thought, when they visited your house, it smelled like garbage.
" Right? Like, they didn't have to endure emotional hardship.
And now it's cool, and But when you close your eyes and taste it, does it always taste like it lacks that? I can't like it.
It's impossible for me to like.
- I am sorry.
I can't like it.
- See, but that I will pick that fight with you, 'cause I actually think that the American experience is actually an experience of cultural appropriation.
It's what we do best.
We are the greatest mutts that history ever put together.
And we drag everything through the collective, and it comes out different.
We wouldn't have anything without it.
So, we're at the Buford Highway Farmers Market.
For me and my fellow chefs in Atlanta, it's like a dream market.
The global world is literally at your fingertips here.
I never thought that I would have access to the ingredients that I have access to today.
It's really a thing of beauty for a chef who is an immigrant chef like me.
I showcase very regional Indian cuisine.
It's the region that I come from, which is the southern tip of India.
I was raised Roman Catholic.
I grew up eating beef and pork.
So it's very different than the natural assumption that Americans have of Indian cuisine.
So an important part of my fried chicken recipe is the coconut oil.
I have a lot of herbs that goes into my brine.
I do a buttermilk brine with mint, cilantro, green chili.
Ah! Yes.
Every time I make this fried chicken, people tend to think it's my Southern American influence, and I have to let them know that every culture figured out if you drenched a bird in flour and deep fried it, it was probably gonna be good.
I think everybody has a fried bird, and this is my mama's fried bird.
Is it always boneless? I only do boneless, skinless chicken thigh.
Why? You tell me if I need to leave the skin on for next time.
No, I'm excited to try it.
Can I taste the marinade? - Um, it's raw chicken.
- I'm okay.
Okay.
People are probably freaking out right now, but I'm scared of raw chicken.
- That almost tastes like kimchi to me.
- Really? Because of the ginger and the garlic and the salt.
And it's heavy on the garlic.
That coconut oil is awesome.
It does everything to this chicken, I'm telling you.
And then this is a mixture of garam masala, chili and salt.
But if I'm not familiar with garam masala, most people will probably think it tastes like some kind of curry powder, right? - Exactly, and it's not.
- But it's not.
We don't have anything called curry powder in India.
- All right, you guys ready to dig in? - I'm so excited.
- Mmm.
- Oh, yeah! - That's so good.
- Yes? Man, boy, slow down.
The chicken dead, it ain't going nowhere.
This is really unique.
Have you ever tasted anything like this? - I have not.
- All Kerala, all the way here.
I did not expect this.
It's very good.
I'm gonna try really hard not to steal any ideas.
I always say, what I put on a plate is the sum total of my life experience, right? You know, don't call my food "fusion.
" I hate that word.
It's the other F word.
Let me ask you this though, 'cause you're doing all this cooking in Atlanta.
Which calls itself something "the New South," the sort of international South.
Do you see that? Do you see the sense of other countries and cultures coming to land and prosper here? Absolutely.
Yeah, I see it among my fellow American chefs in the way their cooking has been influenced.
This is where it is good to have some authenticity, right? 'Cause I'm always, like, trying to push any boundary, but at some point there's too much mixture, right? - We are there.
- I think it's about telling a story.
It's great if it's supporting it, but if people can't own the story, then I think it loses its power.
Salare is its own identity now.
It is me, but how do I top Salare? And how do I present myself to the fullest? My Southern roots just kept calling, saying, "All right, let's do a Southern restaurant.
Let's do a Southern Restaurant.
" Ended up finding this space that became available right down the street.
What I did is I named it, actually, after my father.
It's called Junebaby.
And so this is my new baby here.
One of the things that's been striking to me is that so many of the emblematic Southern chefs now are white.
That was honestly one of the driving forces which made me want to open up Junebaby.
I noticed that a lot of people of color who did all the cooking were forgotten about.
And now Southern food became popular because white chefs were cooking Southern food.
I'm like, "What happened to the Willie Mae's and the Chase?" Why aren't they getting that same highlight as these new up and coming hipster stars cooking the food we've been cooking for years? It's important to know our history.
Let's talk about it, let's celebrate it.
To understand, like, this food is built on the struggle.
So these have been soaking overnight, 12 to 16 hours.
A little bit of buttermilk and salt.
You told me that y'all only do fried chicken on Sunday night.
But the roots of it starts with West African slaves coming over, cooking it in palm oil over an open fire.
It didn't happen every day.
And these franchised restaurants make us assume that fried chicken can be enjoyed every day.
And it shouldn't be, but it's delicious and you want to be enjoying it.
Seems like you got two missions here.
You're trying to serve people food they like, but it also looks like you're trying to educate people.
I'm not trying to be like a teacher or a political activist for Southern food right now.
If it happens, it happens, but I want to be able to cook good food.
I want to be able to tell the story on it, so that people can understand the significance of it.
I'm tripping on seeing tweezers in the kitchen these days as well.
It's just to toss and turn, but we don't do tweezer work.
That was that fine dining that I started out with.
As I found myself, I knew I actually didn't want to be a tweezer restaurant.
There's no plucking.
We cooking food for flavor here.
I guess I am living up to tradition, cooking fried chicken, Southern restaurant.
I'm gonna live up to tradition eating it.
You're damn right you should.
All right, all right.
I'm going for the wings.
I'm going for the thigh.
Whoo! That's juicy.
Did you see that? It's all over me.
Oh, man.
I was too busy listening to the music of the crust.
Mmm-hmm.
- Oh, yeah.
- Mmm-hmm.
I'm happy with that.
- Mmm-hmm.
- Mmm-hmm.
We've come full circle.
Things African American are being appreciated in ways that they haven't been before.
The hope is that we can realize that we can embrace each other across our differences, and not necessarily use these things as cudgels to beat each other over the head.
What would you like to see happen with these powerful subjects in food with black culture? Do you want them to Is the goal eventually they'll just go away? What I really want is for people, African American people in particular, to not be ashamed of their histories.
We tend to want to bury it.
And yet, it's the root of everything that we experience in today's society.
It's this harmless little bird that is packed with some horrific stuff.
The three of us understand some things about this country most white Americans cannot teach themselves.
The idea of the immigrants defining and redefining America has been going on since at least the 1600s, when the British first came here without no goddamn papers, and nobody arrested their ass.
Preach.
Go on and get that spicy piece.
I know you want that last spicy piece.
Go ahead.
It's like My passion for Southern food is very intense.
And food is the gateway, is the link, is the connecting piece that allows people to share their realities and perspectives.
So, hopefully, the racism Hopefully, that behavior changes when there's more knowledge there, there's more compassion there, there's more empathy there.
Everything done here is done by the heart.
People of all nationalities, creed, color, origin break bread together and be happy together.
Full of love, peace, joy and happiness.
And the best you can do, maybe, is by using it as inspiration, an homage, and giving credit where credit is due, and doing your best to execute the best goddamn thing you can possibly do.