The New Yorker Presents (2015) s01e08 Episode Script
Episode 8
1 Hi.
I'm gonna be the moderator today.
We're all here for the same reason, so let's open the floor.
Man: I have a story, um, - my name is Will.
- All: Hi, Will.
I was at the Metropolitan Museum of Art with my brother, and, uh, we're just about to exit, and my brother hits me on the side and he says, uh, "Hey, man, I think that's I think that's Bill Murray.
" So we go over, we had to get a photo.
- We loved "Space Jam" growing up.
- [laughter.]
Uh, he says, "I'll take a photo with you, "but you have to find my kids.
" - And we're like - [laughter.]
"Where was the last place you saw your kids?" [laughing.]
And he's like, uh, "I don't know.
"They just kind of ran away.
" And we look at each other, we're like, we don't know what his kids look like.
- [laughing.]
- Thankfully, his kids found him, because everybody was shouting, "Hey, it's Bill Murray.
" - [laughing.]
- This Metropolitan agent tries to take the photo, and it's completely blurry.
Woman: Who is everyone's, like, Bill Murray? I generally think of "Stripes.
" I've been Foster for, like, four years in a row for Halloween.
I'm more of like the Wes Anderson route of Bill fan.
- Less "Space Jam", but - [laughing.]
My story's from about 35 years ago.
There's a girl in front of me, she must have seen Bill and she just stops, and she opens her arms wide and she says, "Darling, where have you been?" And he, without missing a beat, he goes, "Honey, I've missed you so much.
" And they and he grabs her and and they embrace, and then he dips her down and he kisses her on the mouth, and drops her and keeps walking.
[laughing.]
We're playing kick ball, and it was, like, our turn to kick, and, like, I look up, and I'm, like, "Guys, I think Bill Murray just kicked for our team.
" [laughing.]
We took this picture.
Somehow, it came out perfect.
And, like, he just, like, vanished.
- [laughing.]
- Man: I think the interesting thing is that you actually have proof.
Because for the longest time there's, like, these rumors that Bill Murray would just go up to people, and, like, cover their eyes and say, "Guess who?" And then when they would turn around, he'd just be, like, no one will ever believe you.
- [laughing.]
- I was at the bar having whiskey, and there's one table, I was, like, "Oh, that's Bill Murray having dinner with his parents.
"That's interesting.
" And then the music gets really loud, it's a Beach Boys song, and Bill stands up on his chair, and he's just, like, "Turn it up, like, turn it up.
" And his his parents are just sitting there, like, "This happens all the time.
" We are just There's no one in the whole restaurant, he's just putting on a show for nobody.
Then the whole kitchen comes out and starts singing with him.
And then it was over, and then he kind of just sat back down with his parents.
[laughing.]
Man: That's so great that's his life.
I think he's found a way to use his celebrity - to just have the most fun life ever.
- Woman: Yeah.
I worked on a commercial that he was in.
It was a real small crew.
They've all got, like, DVDs and memorabilia that they want to ask Bill to sign at the end of the shoot.
And I was like, "Don't do that.
" I got a great idea.
We love Wes Anderson films, we're gonna ask, "Hey, man, can you walk down the hall with me in slow motion?" And Bill thought we meant, like, actually walk slowly.
[laughing.]
He directed us and placed us.
When we get to the point where the camera cuts, Bill just keeps walkin' and he just leaves.
[laughing.]
I was out with a bunch of friends.
I saw, like, a figure coming towards me from the back of the bar.
My first thought was, like, "That guy's familiar.
"Like, is he like a college professor I had once, or like" And then all of a sudden it hit, and I was, like, "That's Bill Murray.
" My wife's, like, "Tell him we love his movies.
" And I was, like, "You know what? "We just got that gift from Bill Murray of seeing him.
"Let's give him the gift of just letting him go about his night.
" I don't think you can, like, find him.
You just have to just let it go.
And if you're pure of heart, Bill Murray will reveal himself to you in your life.
Man: A lot of these moments that we've had with Bill are just these little New York moments of joy.
[laughing.]
Man: I think he just gets to live a life where everyone's his friend.
Imagine if the whole world was friends with you.
It'd be the best way to live, you know? - Woman: Say "noogie.
" - All: Noogie.
[camera shutter clicks.]
I just heard a funny joke the other day.
Five letters.
"A rose is a rose is a rose.
" Writer.
Stein? Stein.
What was the big deal with Gertrude Stein, huh? It's gonna be tough to finish this if you keep talking.
So listen to this one.
What's the hardest part about rollerblading? I don't know.
What? Telling your dad you're gay.
Who are you texting? A friend.
Can you hear me with your iPod in? What? Hold on.
Let me, uh Let me let me take this out.
Sorry.
[clicking.]
[exhales.]
- [creaking.]
- Oh, I see that you're exercising, huh? Yeah, trying to get into shape.
Plus, I'll be honest.
I'm a little bored.
Oh.
Well, that kind of leads into something I was thinking about.
Go on.
I'm thinking of ending it.
- Ending what? - Therapy.
Why? I think we're making progress.
I guess I feel like I'm better.
- Really.
- It's just that I'm well happy.
[sighs.]
Happy.
And you think that's what this is about? Well, isn't it? I mean, 20 years, it's It's been a long time, right? Who's to say.
Eh, it's been good.
It's been weird at times.
But it's been good.
Remember the vacation we took at Monument Valley? That was pretty great.
Except for the sunburn I got.
- Oh, yeah.
- That was fun.
- And the meds.
- Zoloft, Wellbutrin, Prozac.
That illegal one from Mexico.
Remember that estrogen drug you gave me by accident, and I started growing breasts? - Huh? - That was a typo.
Th-that that's on me.
If you really think you're ready, then all I can do is wish you the best.
I appreciate that.
That role play thing a while back got weird, right? - [chuckles.]
- The costumes, the whole astronaut thing.
Ugh.
Why judge it? All right, then.
All right indeed.
You know, I really hated you sometimes.
Ditto.
And now that it's ending, I I have to ask, there were times, I just know it, when you weren't listening to a word I was saying, right? - Not a word.
- Amazing.
Can you blame me? You never shut up.
It's like you were born without a filter.
The whining, mother, father, brother, girlfriend.
Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah Who cares? It's largely been a horrible waste, hasn't it? - Pretty much.
- All the time and money.
Three words: house in Nantucket.
Are you this way with all your patients or just me? - Just you.
- I see.
- Well - Good luck.
[sighs.]
You worry about being homosexual? What's that? N-nothing.
Did you just ask if I worry about being homosexual? No.
Yes.
What? What do you mean? You just asked if I worry about being homosexual.
- Do you? - No.
Why? - Your joke earlier.
- It was a joke.
- Was it? - Wasn't it? Let's pick up here next week.
Basil Twist: The idea of life is, in fact, much more powerful to people than just life itself.
That's why puppets are so powerful.
It's because they refer to the ideas of things, actually, rather than the things themselves.
When they see something as if it's alive it's an enormous existential moment for people.
I used to make shows totally by myself.
It was part of my "thing.
" I came to New York '88, I'd say, and started to look up puppeteers in the phone book, and call them and just put myself out there.
Now I go from the West Village to the East Village, I go through the lower east side, and then I cross Delancey Street, and I get even farther downtown.
I mean, I really feel that geography as I travel.
Someone had put a small aquarium up.
It was right outside my studio, so I brought it in, and filled it with water and put a piece of fabric in it.
On a stick.
And kind of swirled it around then looked at it.
And said, "Oh, yeah.
That's cool.
" Well, there are spirits in everything around.
Every rock.
Every chair.
Every object has a spirit in it.
I got hit.
And it's like it exists already.
Suddenly, you see it.
You're like an archaeologist, and you're brushing away the sand, and then you see the corner of the ear of some statue or something.
You're like, I got a hit, I see it, it's under here.
I could see that there was a show.
I was gonna make a show.
The show I made is called "Symphonie Fantastique," which was this underwater abstract puppet show, and that started a lot for me, that show.
Ultimately, we see life in things.
We all as children had that thing with our dolls or action figures or whatever, where you're in that world, it's completely alive.
You see it all, there in a little green plastic Army soldier.
As we get sort of pulled farther away into our little computer screens, we're even more blown away by the magic of piece of fabric on a stick.
It's way more magical to us than all that stuff you can do on your phone.
That thing that happens when a string picks up a piece of wood, and it spins and you and you actually lose yourself in that, this world of ideas and spirit is actually really who we are.
It's actually so important to to being alive.
[buzzing.]
Woman: Want to check it out? What do you think? It's beautiful.
Woman: Why are some people okay with the way things are for their whole life? Other people have, like, a restlessness.
Man: Almost everything Rob did came with some measure of controversy.
I think he sort of liked to ride that wave.
Rob Bell: I had heard these Jesus stories, and whenever there was an "in" group that had pushed somebody to the edges, Jesus always moved to the person on the edges.
And when there was somebody who no one would listen to, he would hear their cry.
These stories seemed way more dangerous than people let on, 'cause they seemed to be saying, "Be wary of institutions, be wary of power.
" I just heard those stories and something rang true.
I remember him telling me that he wanted to be a pastor some day.
I really just thought, "He'll be a great one.
" My heart breaks for that text, where God says, "Where are you?" Like, I created you so that I could, like, hang out with you.
God, we're over here.
Kristen Bell: He got offered this job in Grand Rapids by somebody he really respected.
What he really wanted to do was be mentored by someone.
Worship literally means to bow down to the ground before the Lord.
Kent Dobson: My dad worked for Jerry Falwell, and helped start The Moral Majority.
You know, I was a kid.
I just know they were really passionate about Republicans and, uh, tryin' to trying to turn America into some sort of Christian nation.
18 million unborn babies have been aborted.
That is a satanic campaign.
Pastor Ed Dobson: Jerry Falwell understood that the only person that could beat the drum to get Christians out of their lethargy was a pastor.
The Massachusetts court ruled that two lesbians can adopt a child.
Now, you gotta be a gross idiot.
I don't know where you went to law school, your honor.
[chanting.]
Four more years.
Pastor Ed Dobson: I was really politically naive.
I assumed if you elected the right person, all your problems were solved, not realizing that the White House operates on throwing dog bones to the wild dogs out there, assuming that when the next election comes around that you'll vote for them.
Kent Dobson: My dad left his job with Falwell, and moved to Michigan.
Rob Bell: He's almost, like, detoxing from that experience, so when I was following him around and working with him, it was all about helping real people in real situations.
My dad had been sort of running a program where he would take, um, an intern, and mentor them, and then release them off into the wild to do a church plant.
And Rob, I believe, was either the second or third.
He had high hopes of sort of starting his own thing, and my dad really encouraged that.
He said, "Go for it.
" What would you do if you could start something that spoke a language that we actually speak? What if we talked about all this and expressed it how we would express it? We're gonna explore forever, and my own secret spiritual fantasy is God says, "Rob, I got all these beaches, "and I got all these point breaks, "and I need someone, like, to surf them and give them names.
" [crowd laughing.]
Shall I quote the prophet Isaiah? "Here am I, Lord, send me.
" [laughter.]
You know, Calvary was, uh, very conservative.
People still wore suits on Sunday, and Mars Hill was not going to be that.
It it seemed to arrive on the scene in Michigan, in west Michigan area, at just the right time.
Those of you who are struggling, who are thinking about ending it, who's lives and relationships are just unraveling, may you be reminded that God is on the throne, and we are going to make it.
It did balloon into something pretty big pretty quickly.
Rob Bell: Somebody gave us a mall.
I think it sat, like, 3,500 people.
We did three services throughout the day to fit everybody.
So 3,500 three times.
Worthy is the lamb! Crowd: Worthy is the lamb.
Who was slain! Crowd: Who was slain.
To receive power! Crowd: To receive power.
- And wealth! - Crowd: And wealth.
- And wisdom! - Crowd: And wisdom.
- Forever! - Crowd: Forever.
- And ever! - Crowd: And ever.
- Amen! - Crowd: Amen! Woo! I remember distinctly having this moment like, okay, I'm not gonna say anything in a sermon that I haven't actually seen in real life.
So do I think that being generous is a better way of living? Yes! I mean, I remember having, like, these talks, like, with myself.
Yes, I do.
Generosity is better.
Do I think it's better to forgive somebody who's wronged you? Yes, 'cause I have done that, and I've not done that, and I know that it's better when I set people free.
I remember the first time I did a series on women's equality.
God, I ask for my sisters.
I ask that this community will be the kind of place where they would hear truth, and it would give them life, and not strip them of their humanity, and turn them into something to be exploited or sold.
And a number of people in the church gathered to have me removed.
Of the church we'd started.
Kristen Bell: Sometimes he would teach things at Mars Hill and then the staff would come to him and they'd say, you have to understand when you say these things then we have to deal with all the letters that come in, and it makes our jobs really hard.
He started pushing against against some things in inside evangelical Christianity in a very clever, um, and optimistic way.
Rob Bell: When people unthinkingly, unflinchingly simply support the flag without asking what does this mean for the kingdom of God, something very, very dangerous has happened.
I did a Christmas series against the war in Iraq.
How dare we talk about peace on Earth when we're spending 10 billion dollars a month on a war that everybody's a bit fuzzy on what we're even doing over there.
And another round of people were, like, "We're out of here.
You can't talk about that.
" I was, like, is there anything more rooted in our tradition, the Christian tradition coming out of the Jewish tradition, than challenging the use of power? In 2011, I wrote a book called "Love Wins.
" At the heart of "Love Wins", I'm simply trying to expose the idea that when someone says to you billions of people are going to die and burn forever in Hell, and be tortured by an all-loving God, that's not good news, that's a horror story.
Let's say a 17-year-old rejects Christ, dies, and 17 million years from now, or however you want to say that, that's obviously sort of over the top language, God is still punishing that person, is God like that? And I think it's a totally legitimate question.
- Do you think God is like that, Rob? - No.
When I first read "Love Wins" before it came out, I said to Rob on the phone, I said, "Well, they're gonna string you up.
" "They're gonna They're gonna "They're gonna crucify you on this one.
" I believe the the man, uh, is a false teacher.
I believe he's a heretic, because the Bible's very clear that there is a Hell.
When people think they're defending God, all sorts of normal decorum gets tossed out the window.
He holds no evangelical convictions, and it's pretty clear that he doesn't regard the Bible as any kind of authority.
Don't you mess with my higher power.
There's a specific kind of venom that comes up, and in some senses it's just the terror that the foundation, the ground they've been walking on might not be as absolute as they think it is.
We human beings have this tremendous propensity to create hells on Earth.
That's why we're here.
To help each other, rescue each other from the very hells on Earth that we create right now.
You're amending the Gospel, the Christian message so that it's palatable to contemporary people who find, for example, the idea of Hell and Heaven very difficult to stomach.
Rob Bell: I remember there was a family that had been going to the church that were the heirs of a very, very large business.
I remember one of them saying, "You know, we're all leaving.
" Um, and I said, "Why?" And he said, "Because, [sighs.]
we've studied the scriptures.
" And it was this sort of, you are goin' down the wrong road.
And they all they would all sit in the very front row, in the first, like, four rows, and they all just left.
Um, and I I remember, "Oh, that's how this works.
" Now, it broke me, it broke me, and it built like this nuclear engine of resolve, like, stay on your journey and just keep going, and keep bringing good news, and keep telling people what you're seeing, and keep trying to paint beautiful pictures of what might be possible for all of us.
Kent Dobson: Rob was not pushed out.
I think he just outgrew this place.
It was just time for him to move on.
The congregation gets an email saying, "Rob and Kristen are going to be leaving us "to explore new possibilities and projects in Los Angeles.
"Rob will tell you more on Sunday.
" That's what they got.
And I remember walking up onto the stage, and the whole place immediately leapt to their feet, and started cheering.
And they just cheered for, like, five or ten minutes.
So many people said, we love you but you have to keep going.
And so many people said you've always taught us take risks.
Keep going, keep exploring.
Now you're just having to do You know what I mean? The thing you've always told us we need to do.
And it was like my word, yeah.
I'm, like, Oprah-ing myself right now.
[laughing.]
My mascara's gonna run.
[laughing.]
Rob Bell: What if you could take the stuff you're doing and you could broadcast bigger and wider? Every time I hear about an unarmed American being shot by a police officer, I grieve for that person, for their family, for a police officer in a system that's that sort of jacked up.
Feels like it's just a mess all the way around.
This was, like, a collective trauma that we're all experiencing.
This has gone down in history.
Rob Bell: Some people are gay, and you're our brothers.
And you're our sisters.
And we love you.
- We love you.
- [applause.]
Rob Bell: I have a more expanded view of church.
But I love the idea that Jesus said, wherever two or three are gathered, something's goin' down.
I added that last part.
But the idea that, like, one hour on a Sunday somehow is church is completely ridiculous.
[applause.]
You and I were raised in an educational system in a culture, in a country, that was driven by this one single idea.
We may not understand it yet, but give us time, and we will come up with an explanation.
But the problem is every explanation merely moves the mystery down a layer.
There is more joy right here right now than any of us could begin to taste.
And may grace and peace be with you every step of the way.
- Thank you.
- [applause.]
- Oh, I know you.
- Hi! - Thank you.
- Woman: No, no, you were fantastic.
Rob Bell: People need good news They need to know we're gonna make it.
They need to know we have each other.
I would hope that I'm bringing people good news.
That's what I gets me up in the morning.
Yeah.
Rob Bell: David Foster Wallace talks about the sub-surface unity of all things.
There are these certain places, and there are geographic places, and then there are places in our own lives where, when you're there, people will say, like, I go to such-and-such mountain, or take a walk in such-and-such place.
Somehow I'm reminded that I have received this gift.
What I do matters.
Yeah.
Man: Where's that place for you? Rob Bell: The ocean.
I'm gonna be the moderator today.
We're all here for the same reason, so let's open the floor.
Man: I have a story, um, - my name is Will.
- All: Hi, Will.
I was at the Metropolitan Museum of Art with my brother, and, uh, we're just about to exit, and my brother hits me on the side and he says, uh, "Hey, man, I think that's I think that's Bill Murray.
" So we go over, we had to get a photo.
- We loved "Space Jam" growing up.
- [laughter.]
Uh, he says, "I'll take a photo with you, "but you have to find my kids.
" - And we're like - [laughter.]
"Where was the last place you saw your kids?" [laughing.]
And he's like, uh, "I don't know.
"They just kind of ran away.
" And we look at each other, we're like, we don't know what his kids look like.
- [laughing.]
- Thankfully, his kids found him, because everybody was shouting, "Hey, it's Bill Murray.
" - [laughing.]
- This Metropolitan agent tries to take the photo, and it's completely blurry.
Woman: Who is everyone's, like, Bill Murray? I generally think of "Stripes.
" I've been Foster for, like, four years in a row for Halloween.
I'm more of like the Wes Anderson route of Bill fan.
- Less "Space Jam", but - [laughing.]
My story's from about 35 years ago.
There's a girl in front of me, she must have seen Bill and she just stops, and she opens her arms wide and she says, "Darling, where have you been?" And he, without missing a beat, he goes, "Honey, I've missed you so much.
" And they and he grabs her and and they embrace, and then he dips her down and he kisses her on the mouth, and drops her and keeps walking.
[laughing.]
We're playing kick ball, and it was, like, our turn to kick, and, like, I look up, and I'm, like, "Guys, I think Bill Murray just kicked for our team.
" [laughing.]
We took this picture.
Somehow, it came out perfect.
And, like, he just, like, vanished.
- [laughing.]
- Man: I think the interesting thing is that you actually have proof.
Because for the longest time there's, like, these rumors that Bill Murray would just go up to people, and, like, cover their eyes and say, "Guess who?" And then when they would turn around, he'd just be, like, no one will ever believe you.
- [laughing.]
- I was at the bar having whiskey, and there's one table, I was, like, "Oh, that's Bill Murray having dinner with his parents.
"That's interesting.
" And then the music gets really loud, it's a Beach Boys song, and Bill stands up on his chair, and he's just, like, "Turn it up, like, turn it up.
" And his his parents are just sitting there, like, "This happens all the time.
" We are just There's no one in the whole restaurant, he's just putting on a show for nobody.
Then the whole kitchen comes out and starts singing with him.
And then it was over, and then he kind of just sat back down with his parents.
[laughing.]
Man: That's so great that's his life.
I think he's found a way to use his celebrity - to just have the most fun life ever.
- Woman: Yeah.
I worked on a commercial that he was in.
It was a real small crew.
They've all got, like, DVDs and memorabilia that they want to ask Bill to sign at the end of the shoot.
And I was like, "Don't do that.
" I got a great idea.
We love Wes Anderson films, we're gonna ask, "Hey, man, can you walk down the hall with me in slow motion?" And Bill thought we meant, like, actually walk slowly.
[laughing.]
He directed us and placed us.
When we get to the point where the camera cuts, Bill just keeps walkin' and he just leaves.
[laughing.]
I was out with a bunch of friends.
I saw, like, a figure coming towards me from the back of the bar.
My first thought was, like, "That guy's familiar.
"Like, is he like a college professor I had once, or like" And then all of a sudden it hit, and I was, like, "That's Bill Murray.
" My wife's, like, "Tell him we love his movies.
" And I was, like, "You know what? "We just got that gift from Bill Murray of seeing him.
"Let's give him the gift of just letting him go about his night.
" I don't think you can, like, find him.
You just have to just let it go.
And if you're pure of heart, Bill Murray will reveal himself to you in your life.
Man: A lot of these moments that we've had with Bill are just these little New York moments of joy.
[laughing.]
Man: I think he just gets to live a life where everyone's his friend.
Imagine if the whole world was friends with you.
It'd be the best way to live, you know? - Woman: Say "noogie.
" - All: Noogie.
[camera shutter clicks.]
I just heard a funny joke the other day.
Five letters.
"A rose is a rose is a rose.
" Writer.
Stein? Stein.
What was the big deal with Gertrude Stein, huh? It's gonna be tough to finish this if you keep talking.
So listen to this one.
What's the hardest part about rollerblading? I don't know.
What? Telling your dad you're gay.
Who are you texting? A friend.
Can you hear me with your iPod in? What? Hold on.
Let me, uh Let me let me take this out.
Sorry.
[clicking.]
[exhales.]
- [creaking.]
- Oh, I see that you're exercising, huh? Yeah, trying to get into shape.
Plus, I'll be honest.
I'm a little bored.
Oh.
Well, that kind of leads into something I was thinking about.
Go on.
I'm thinking of ending it.
- Ending what? - Therapy.
Why? I think we're making progress.
I guess I feel like I'm better.
- Really.
- It's just that I'm well happy.
[sighs.]
Happy.
And you think that's what this is about? Well, isn't it? I mean, 20 years, it's It's been a long time, right? Who's to say.
Eh, it's been good.
It's been weird at times.
But it's been good.
Remember the vacation we took at Monument Valley? That was pretty great.
Except for the sunburn I got.
- Oh, yeah.
- That was fun.
- And the meds.
- Zoloft, Wellbutrin, Prozac.
That illegal one from Mexico.
Remember that estrogen drug you gave me by accident, and I started growing breasts? - Huh? - That was a typo.
Th-that that's on me.
If you really think you're ready, then all I can do is wish you the best.
I appreciate that.
That role play thing a while back got weird, right? - [chuckles.]
- The costumes, the whole astronaut thing.
Ugh.
Why judge it? All right, then.
All right indeed.
You know, I really hated you sometimes.
Ditto.
And now that it's ending, I I have to ask, there were times, I just know it, when you weren't listening to a word I was saying, right? - Not a word.
- Amazing.
Can you blame me? You never shut up.
It's like you were born without a filter.
The whining, mother, father, brother, girlfriend.
Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah Who cares? It's largely been a horrible waste, hasn't it? - Pretty much.
- All the time and money.
Three words: house in Nantucket.
Are you this way with all your patients or just me? - Just you.
- I see.
- Well - Good luck.
[sighs.]
You worry about being homosexual? What's that? N-nothing.
Did you just ask if I worry about being homosexual? No.
Yes.
What? What do you mean? You just asked if I worry about being homosexual.
- Do you? - No.
Why? - Your joke earlier.
- It was a joke.
- Was it? - Wasn't it? Let's pick up here next week.
Basil Twist: The idea of life is, in fact, much more powerful to people than just life itself.
That's why puppets are so powerful.
It's because they refer to the ideas of things, actually, rather than the things themselves.
When they see something as if it's alive it's an enormous existential moment for people.
I used to make shows totally by myself.
It was part of my "thing.
" I came to New York '88, I'd say, and started to look up puppeteers in the phone book, and call them and just put myself out there.
Now I go from the West Village to the East Village, I go through the lower east side, and then I cross Delancey Street, and I get even farther downtown.
I mean, I really feel that geography as I travel.
Someone had put a small aquarium up.
It was right outside my studio, so I brought it in, and filled it with water and put a piece of fabric in it.
On a stick.
And kind of swirled it around then looked at it.
And said, "Oh, yeah.
That's cool.
" Well, there are spirits in everything around.
Every rock.
Every chair.
Every object has a spirit in it.
I got hit.
And it's like it exists already.
Suddenly, you see it.
You're like an archaeologist, and you're brushing away the sand, and then you see the corner of the ear of some statue or something.
You're like, I got a hit, I see it, it's under here.
I could see that there was a show.
I was gonna make a show.
The show I made is called "Symphonie Fantastique," which was this underwater abstract puppet show, and that started a lot for me, that show.
Ultimately, we see life in things.
We all as children had that thing with our dolls or action figures or whatever, where you're in that world, it's completely alive.
You see it all, there in a little green plastic Army soldier.
As we get sort of pulled farther away into our little computer screens, we're even more blown away by the magic of piece of fabric on a stick.
It's way more magical to us than all that stuff you can do on your phone.
That thing that happens when a string picks up a piece of wood, and it spins and you and you actually lose yourself in that, this world of ideas and spirit is actually really who we are.
It's actually so important to to being alive.
[buzzing.]
Woman: Want to check it out? What do you think? It's beautiful.
Woman: Why are some people okay with the way things are for their whole life? Other people have, like, a restlessness.
Man: Almost everything Rob did came with some measure of controversy.
I think he sort of liked to ride that wave.
Rob Bell: I had heard these Jesus stories, and whenever there was an "in" group that had pushed somebody to the edges, Jesus always moved to the person on the edges.
And when there was somebody who no one would listen to, he would hear their cry.
These stories seemed way more dangerous than people let on, 'cause they seemed to be saying, "Be wary of institutions, be wary of power.
" I just heard those stories and something rang true.
I remember him telling me that he wanted to be a pastor some day.
I really just thought, "He'll be a great one.
" My heart breaks for that text, where God says, "Where are you?" Like, I created you so that I could, like, hang out with you.
God, we're over here.
Kristen Bell: He got offered this job in Grand Rapids by somebody he really respected.
What he really wanted to do was be mentored by someone.
Worship literally means to bow down to the ground before the Lord.
Kent Dobson: My dad worked for Jerry Falwell, and helped start The Moral Majority.
You know, I was a kid.
I just know they were really passionate about Republicans and, uh, tryin' to trying to turn America into some sort of Christian nation.
18 million unborn babies have been aborted.
That is a satanic campaign.
Pastor Ed Dobson: Jerry Falwell understood that the only person that could beat the drum to get Christians out of their lethargy was a pastor.
The Massachusetts court ruled that two lesbians can adopt a child.
Now, you gotta be a gross idiot.
I don't know where you went to law school, your honor.
[chanting.]
Four more years.
Pastor Ed Dobson: I was really politically naive.
I assumed if you elected the right person, all your problems were solved, not realizing that the White House operates on throwing dog bones to the wild dogs out there, assuming that when the next election comes around that you'll vote for them.
Kent Dobson: My dad left his job with Falwell, and moved to Michigan.
Rob Bell: He's almost, like, detoxing from that experience, so when I was following him around and working with him, it was all about helping real people in real situations.
My dad had been sort of running a program where he would take, um, an intern, and mentor them, and then release them off into the wild to do a church plant.
And Rob, I believe, was either the second or third.
He had high hopes of sort of starting his own thing, and my dad really encouraged that.
He said, "Go for it.
" What would you do if you could start something that spoke a language that we actually speak? What if we talked about all this and expressed it how we would express it? We're gonna explore forever, and my own secret spiritual fantasy is God says, "Rob, I got all these beaches, "and I got all these point breaks, "and I need someone, like, to surf them and give them names.
" [crowd laughing.]
Shall I quote the prophet Isaiah? "Here am I, Lord, send me.
" [laughter.]
You know, Calvary was, uh, very conservative.
People still wore suits on Sunday, and Mars Hill was not going to be that.
It it seemed to arrive on the scene in Michigan, in west Michigan area, at just the right time.
Those of you who are struggling, who are thinking about ending it, who's lives and relationships are just unraveling, may you be reminded that God is on the throne, and we are going to make it.
It did balloon into something pretty big pretty quickly.
Rob Bell: Somebody gave us a mall.
I think it sat, like, 3,500 people.
We did three services throughout the day to fit everybody.
So 3,500 three times.
Worthy is the lamb! Crowd: Worthy is the lamb.
Who was slain! Crowd: Who was slain.
To receive power! Crowd: To receive power.
- And wealth! - Crowd: And wealth.
- And wisdom! - Crowd: And wisdom.
- Forever! - Crowd: Forever.
- And ever! - Crowd: And ever.
- Amen! - Crowd: Amen! Woo! I remember distinctly having this moment like, okay, I'm not gonna say anything in a sermon that I haven't actually seen in real life.
So do I think that being generous is a better way of living? Yes! I mean, I remember having, like, these talks, like, with myself.
Yes, I do.
Generosity is better.
Do I think it's better to forgive somebody who's wronged you? Yes, 'cause I have done that, and I've not done that, and I know that it's better when I set people free.
I remember the first time I did a series on women's equality.
God, I ask for my sisters.
I ask that this community will be the kind of place where they would hear truth, and it would give them life, and not strip them of their humanity, and turn them into something to be exploited or sold.
And a number of people in the church gathered to have me removed.
Of the church we'd started.
Kristen Bell: Sometimes he would teach things at Mars Hill and then the staff would come to him and they'd say, you have to understand when you say these things then we have to deal with all the letters that come in, and it makes our jobs really hard.
He started pushing against against some things in inside evangelical Christianity in a very clever, um, and optimistic way.
Rob Bell: When people unthinkingly, unflinchingly simply support the flag without asking what does this mean for the kingdom of God, something very, very dangerous has happened.
I did a Christmas series against the war in Iraq.
How dare we talk about peace on Earth when we're spending 10 billion dollars a month on a war that everybody's a bit fuzzy on what we're even doing over there.
And another round of people were, like, "We're out of here.
You can't talk about that.
" I was, like, is there anything more rooted in our tradition, the Christian tradition coming out of the Jewish tradition, than challenging the use of power? In 2011, I wrote a book called "Love Wins.
" At the heart of "Love Wins", I'm simply trying to expose the idea that when someone says to you billions of people are going to die and burn forever in Hell, and be tortured by an all-loving God, that's not good news, that's a horror story.
Let's say a 17-year-old rejects Christ, dies, and 17 million years from now, or however you want to say that, that's obviously sort of over the top language, God is still punishing that person, is God like that? And I think it's a totally legitimate question.
- Do you think God is like that, Rob? - No.
When I first read "Love Wins" before it came out, I said to Rob on the phone, I said, "Well, they're gonna string you up.
" "They're gonna They're gonna "They're gonna crucify you on this one.
" I believe the the man, uh, is a false teacher.
I believe he's a heretic, because the Bible's very clear that there is a Hell.
When people think they're defending God, all sorts of normal decorum gets tossed out the window.
He holds no evangelical convictions, and it's pretty clear that he doesn't regard the Bible as any kind of authority.
Don't you mess with my higher power.
There's a specific kind of venom that comes up, and in some senses it's just the terror that the foundation, the ground they've been walking on might not be as absolute as they think it is.
We human beings have this tremendous propensity to create hells on Earth.
That's why we're here.
To help each other, rescue each other from the very hells on Earth that we create right now.
You're amending the Gospel, the Christian message so that it's palatable to contemporary people who find, for example, the idea of Hell and Heaven very difficult to stomach.
Rob Bell: I remember there was a family that had been going to the church that were the heirs of a very, very large business.
I remember one of them saying, "You know, we're all leaving.
" Um, and I said, "Why?" And he said, "Because, [sighs.]
we've studied the scriptures.
" And it was this sort of, you are goin' down the wrong road.
And they all they would all sit in the very front row, in the first, like, four rows, and they all just left.
Um, and I I remember, "Oh, that's how this works.
" Now, it broke me, it broke me, and it built like this nuclear engine of resolve, like, stay on your journey and just keep going, and keep bringing good news, and keep telling people what you're seeing, and keep trying to paint beautiful pictures of what might be possible for all of us.
Kent Dobson: Rob was not pushed out.
I think he just outgrew this place.
It was just time for him to move on.
The congregation gets an email saying, "Rob and Kristen are going to be leaving us "to explore new possibilities and projects in Los Angeles.
"Rob will tell you more on Sunday.
" That's what they got.
And I remember walking up onto the stage, and the whole place immediately leapt to their feet, and started cheering.
And they just cheered for, like, five or ten minutes.
So many people said, we love you but you have to keep going.
And so many people said you've always taught us take risks.
Keep going, keep exploring.
Now you're just having to do You know what I mean? The thing you've always told us we need to do.
And it was like my word, yeah.
I'm, like, Oprah-ing myself right now.
[laughing.]
My mascara's gonna run.
[laughing.]
Rob Bell: What if you could take the stuff you're doing and you could broadcast bigger and wider? Every time I hear about an unarmed American being shot by a police officer, I grieve for that person, for their family, for a police officer in a system that's that sort of jacked up.
Feels like it's just a mess all the way around.
This was, like, a collective trauma that we're all experiencing.
This has gone down in history.
Rob Bell: Some people are gay, and you're our brothers.
And you're our sisters.
And we love you.
- We love you.
- [applause.]
Rob Bell: I have a more expanded view of church.
But I love the idea that Jesus said, wherever two or three are gathered, something's goin' down.
I added that last part.
But the idea that, like, one hour on a Sunday somehow is church is completely ridiculous.
[applause.]
You and I were raised in an educational system in a culture, in a country, that was driven by this one single idea.
We may not understand it yet, but give us time, and we will come up with an explanation.
But the problem is every explanation merely moves the mystery down a layer.
There is more joy right here right now than any of us could begin to taste.
And may grace and peace be with you every step of the way.
- Thank you.
- [applause.]
- Oh, I know you.
- Hi! - Thank you.
- Woman: No, no, you were fantastic.
Rob Bell: People need good news They need to know we're gonna make it.
They need to know we have each other.
I would hope that I'm bringing people good news.
That's what I gets me up in the morning.
Yeah.
Rob Bell: David Foster Wallace talks about the sub-surface unity of all things.
There are these certain places, and there are geographic places, and then there are places in our own lives where, when you're there, people will say, like, I go to such-and-such mountain, or take a walk in such-and-such place.
Somehow I'm reminded that I have received this gift.
What I do matters.
Yeah.
Man: Where's that place for you? Rob Bell: The ocean.