Making A Murderer (2015) s01e09 Episode Script
Lack of Humility
Well, if they framed Steven Avery the question is, is Brendan's case a whole charade too? I mean, that's ultimately gonna be the question.
Is his jury gonna believe that he confessed to a crime he never even commit a murder he never committed? The two questions that the State is gonna ask you to answer are these.
Number one: Was he there? And number two: Did he help? Was he there and did he help? Now, you're gonna hear in this case that there was nothing unique about the March 1st interrogation of Brendan Dassey.
We're gonna show you start to finish the entire admission.
I think it's about four hours long.
And some of the details may be disturbing.
Now we have to give you those details.
We have to play the entire statement for you.
Your job at the end of this case will decide whether that statement ought to be believed.
We're gonna briefly go through what Brendan Dassey says on March 1st.
Brendan's version of what happened to Teresa Halbach.
Brendan Dassey, in again, sometimes graphic detail, will talk about approaching Uncle Steve's trailer.
And before he even knocks on the door, he hears screaming.
Brendan actually sees Teresa shackled with handcuffs and leg irons to the bed.
And by force and by violence, he has sexual intercourse with Teresa Halbach.
After the rape, Steven Avery praises his nephew and says, "That's how you do it.
" Then Steven and Brendan discuss if they should and how they should kill Teresa Halbach.
Steven Avery stabs the victim.
Brendan Dassey, handed the knife by Uncle Steve, cuts Teresa Halbach's throat.
We're gonna be able to prove to you in this case things the public didn't know, things the police didn't know were provided by a young man who was at the scene.
Was he there? Absolutely.
Did he help? Absolutely.
It is important to remember who is on trial.
You'll hear days and days of evidence about Steven Avery, his DNA, his blood found in the SUV, the bullet fragment found in his garage, the ignition key found in his bedroom.
You won't hear the same evidence involving Brendan Dassey.
There won't be any DNA.
No blood.
No saliva.
No sweat.
No hair.
Nothing.
No science that's gonna point you to Brendan Dassey.
This is Brendan Dassey's trial, not Steven's trial.
It's about a 16-year-old high school student with below-average cognitive abilities a fourth-grade reading level.
It's about a shy introvert, socially inept, suggestible child.
You'll learn that Brendan will meet two highly-trained, intelligent, adult police officers.
At times they cozy up to Brendan to get the answer they want.
At times they pull back from Brendan when he's not giving them the answer they want and they expect.
It's like a new puppy dog.
When he does what he's supposed to do, he gets his pat on the head and a treat.
"Good job, Brendan.
Good job.
Good boy.
" But when it's not what they want, "We're leaving, Brendan.
Until you tell us what we want to hear.
" When you watch the videos carefully, they'll be exposed for what they are.
And I think they're just garbage.
Love you, Brendan! This first statement that you're gonna hear is going to be from an officer who was up in Marinette and spoke to Brendan in somewhere between November 4th and November 10th.
They actually spoke to him twice so they may have both statements.
One was written, one was actually audiotaped.
Last Monday, do you remember seeing this girl at all? - I was at school.
- OK.
After school you come home.
You ever see this girl before? I just knew about it on Thursday because my mom called me and told me to turn on channel 11.
- OK.
- She was missing.
And you're dropped off, it's such an event that someone's standing in your field taking a picture of that van that you remember that too, don't you? The bus driver remembers it, the kids on the school bus remember it, the girl taking pictures, you remember that? - Well, I wasn't looking at the - Huh? I wasn't looking in the field.
It's either a yes or no, I mean I'm not putting nothing in your mind.
Now, tell us generally about Mr.
Dassey's demeanor during the course of your interview with him.
Um I interview a lot of people and Mr.
Dassey's demeanor was, uh different.
When it came to specifics regarding Teresa Halbach, Steven Avery, what happened on that day, he'd sit there, head down, withdrawn, motionless.
It was a demeanor that I felt from all the years of training experience that I've had in dealing with people, an inner struggle, a conflict, he was hiding something.
It was not gonna be a ten-minute interview as to what he saw.
There was something more.
Detective, I guess you would agree with me that you you have no degrees of any sort, education or training, to evaluate why an individual may react to you in the way they do.
Is that a fair statement? You're not a psychologist.
- I'm not a psychologist, that's correct.
- OK.
And certainly not a child psychologist.
I am not a child psychologist, that's correct.
OK.
You had never been around this young man before, had you? - No.
- You had no idea what he acted like when he was dealing with a teacher, for example.
- No.
- You had no idea what he acted like when he was dealing with a person like yourself, an authoritative figure.
- Prior to our conversation, no.
- OK.
You had no idea whether you were dealing with what you might typically call an average teenager or a teenager with any type of limitations.
Is that a fair statement? - Yes.
- OK.
And you acknowledge there's nothing at all in your report about his demeanor.
No.
So you're having to rely entirely upon your memory - when you describe his demeanor.
- Yes.
OK, and that's about 16 months ago, right? - Yes.
- OK.
I think he's doing a damn good job.
Really good job.
Directing your attention to February 20th, 2006, what plans, if any, did you investigators have relative to speaking with other members of the Avery family? In order to do a thorough investigation, we needed to go back and talk to everybody who had access - or who lived on that property.
- All right.
Now who was the first one of the family members to be re-interviewed? By my recollection, it was probably Kayla, most likely.
The interview started out about Steve Avery and Kayla was talking about her relationship with Steve Avery.
And just about at the end of that interview, Kayla, out of the blue, basically came out and told us that, uh, she had a cousin by the name of Brendan and that Brendan was, quote, "acting up lately.
" Brendan would just start crying uncontrollably.
She also told us that Brendan had lost what she estimated to be about 40 pounds.
Now, based on this information, what did you decide to do? We decided that, um, we needed to talk to Brendan again.
And when did you talk to Brendan again? On February 27th of 2006.
Myself and Agent Fassbender had went to the Mishicot school system and that's where we met with Mr.
Dassey.
Brendan, we know that on Halloween, you were with him and helped him tend to a fire.
What did you see in the fire? Some branches, I saw a cabinet and some tires.
See any body parts? Well, some garbage bags on there.
Mark and I, yeah, we're cops.
But I'm not right now.
I'm a father that has a kid your age, too.
There's nothing I'd like more than to come over and give you a hug 'cause I know you're hurting.
'Cause I gotta believe you did see something in the fire.
Talk about it.
I promise, I will not leave you high and dry.
I'll stand behind you.
The burn pit, Brendan, was no bigger than this table.
I find it quite difficult to believe that if there was a body in there that you wouldn't have seen something, a hand, a foot, a head, hair, something.
You saw some body parts.
Tell us what you saw.
- It's OK to tell us.
- It's OK.
Tell us what you saw.
Toes.
After this interview, we contacted District Attorney Kratz to inform him of what we had learned from that interview.
Mr.
Kratz requested that we memorialize this interview in a better fashion, so at that point we made arrangements to go to Two Rivers Police Department where there would be a videotape interview done.
Where was the defendant's mother, Barb Janda, at that time? We had spoke to Barb prior to doing the interview and indicated she had every right to be in the interview if she wished to be.
At that time she declined.
She waited in a outer waiting area of the police department while we conducted the interview.
All right.
Now at that After those, um, two interviews that particular day, did you think that he was a suspect at that particular point? Well, at that time, that's the first time Brendan places himself at the crime scene, places himself at the fire.
In my thinking at that point, he's still a witness, a witness to something horrific.
He tells us that he sees body parts in a fire.
I mean So, we're thinking he's a witness to something at that point, yeah.
Earlier we heard from Special Agent Fassbender that the defendant and his mother were put up at the Fox Hills Hotel in Mishicot.
How did that come to pass? First and foremost, on any law enforcement's mind is safety.
I mean, our job is to protect people.
That's bottom line.
Because of the information he told us, if there was somebody else that lived out there on the Avery property that would've found out and may have also been involved, we were worried for his safety, that they would somehow get to him and maybe harm him.
So we thought, to be on the safe side, we needed to put him up somewhere off of that property.
Did you have any feeling as to whether or not the defendant had told you everything that he knew at that time? My feeling was no, he didn't.
He knew more 'cause every time we would talk to him he'd give you a little bit more, give you a little bit more.
So then did you make arrangements to re-interview the defendant? We did.
Yes.
That would take us to March 1st.
Um, at that point we contacted Brendan's mother again, told her that we would like to take Brendan to the Manitowoc Sheriff's Department so we could do a videotaped interview of Brendan to see what else he maybe had known, see what else maybe he saw.
It was obvious that he knew more than he was telling us.
I just wanted to just go over this real quick again.
You remember these rights? Your Miranda rights that I read you? - Yeah.
- You still want to talk to us? - Yeah.
- OK.
Just wanted to make sure of that.
Brendan, I want you to relax.
- Brendan? There you go.
- Thank you.
You're welcome.
Your Honor, I believe we have agreed that the remainder of the discussion does not contain pertinent questioning of the defendant, and I think we agreed to stop the tape at this particular point.
To the Defense, is that true? It is, Your Honor.
All right.
The videotapes today it just shows me that - He wasn't - the police were trying to get him - to make up a story.
- Mm-hm.
- 'Cause it's personal.
- You know, it just comes across that way.
Well, he told me umpteen times that he didn't do nothing to her.
- That he's still a virgin.
Yeah, I know.
- And there's no DNA evidence.
There's no DNA evidence to prove that he was in the trailer, there's no evidence of hers in that, in Steven's trailer.
- Right.
- There's no DNA evidence.
And that was my biggest thing.
If she If it happened as Brendan supposedly said it did, there would've been DNA evidence in there.
Blood, something.
That's just like Mark Wiegert on the stand today.
He said that that I declined to go in with Brendan.
I wanted to go in with Brendan.
They wouldn't let me.
So he's lying up on the stand too.
Do you know how many times either you or Agent Fassbender on March 1st, the video one that we all watched today suggested to Brendan or told Brendan that he was a liar? No.
I don't know how many times.
Would it surprise you that it was in excess of 75 times during the course of the interview that either you or Fassbender said something to him suggesting or directly stating to him, that he was a liar? Several times we told him we did not believe what he was telling us.
Yes.
Do you know how many times after he was told that he was a liar that he changed his answer? No.
I don't know how many times.
Take a look at that middle paragraph.
"Fassbender is encouraging Brendan to say things that might make Brendan look a little bad in order for him to be believed.
" He tells him "to tell the whole truth, don't leave anything out, don't make anything up.
" But it was in fact said to him, "It might make you look a little bad or make you look like you were more involved than you want to be.
It's hard to do, but it's good from the vantage point to say, 'Hey, there's no doubt you're telling the truth.
'" Yes, that's what was said.
Part of breaking down those barriers.
But doesn't that encourage him to say something - irregardless of whether it's true or not? - No Because someone in a position of authority is telling him that, "If you say something that doesn't help you, then we might believe you.
" No, I wouldn't characterize it that way.
The police are actually taught a technique from this org this outfit out of Chicago, Reid.
And they're taught to elicit confessions, not get to the truth.
They The police believe it's the same thing.
Confession and truth are the same thing.
But it's not.
The truth is what happened.
A confession isn't necessarily what happened.
You accused him during the course of this interview of shooting Teresa, correct? Yep, and which he was able to resist every time we accused him.
Well, the truth of the matter is you don't know if it's right and you don't know if it's wrong, do you? - Whether or not he shot Teresa? - Correct.
I know he was there when she was shot.
- Whether he actually pulled the trigger - Well, let me stop you there.
You know he was there because he told you that, right? And because of the evidence.
Well The cuffs, the bullets, the shells, the shovels, the seat, everything that the government's paraded in here none of these items have fingerprints, DNA or any other scientific evidence connecting Brendan Dassey to the death of Teresa Halbach, yes or no? That's correct.
They had five days to clean up.
I thought Investigator Wiegert did a tremendous job.
I mean, we've been praising the police all along.
Uh we We love the police.
The other family obviously doesn't, so Um But, yeah, we owe a lot to them for their the work that they've done for my family and for Teresa.
He never got into trouble before.
At all.
He was always a good kid.
Even his school wants him to come back to school.
And my son always tells me, "Blame it on Mark.
Blame it on Mark.
" And that's who I'm blaming.
Did there come a time where you re-interviewed Kayla Avery? We did.
Um, shortly after Brendan was arrested, actually.
I believe it was March 7th of 2006.
Kayla came out and told us quite a few things at that point.
Basically she indicated to us that, um, Brendan had told Kayla that he had went and got the mail and went over to Steven Avery's residence.
And went into the residence and observed Teresa Halbach pinned up in Steve Avery's bedroom.
Kayla went on to tell us how Brendan described seeing body parts later that day, or that evening in the fire behind Steve Avery's residence.
Good morning.
- How old are you, Kayla? - Fifteen.
And how are you related to Brendan? We're first cousins.
My dad is Barbara's brother, and Brendan's Barbara's son.
OK, very good.
I want to direct your attention to a time in December of 2005.
Did you have a conversation with Brendan about Teresa Halbach? - Kinda, yeah.
- All right.
Would you tell us about that conversation with Brendan? Well, um Well, not in December, in November.
OK.
Tell us about it.
In November, um, we were having a birthday party.
He was sitting in our hallway and, um, he was just sitting there.
One of my friends looked out the door and seen him crying and then she came to me and then I went out there by him and I asked him what was wrong, - and all he did is shrugged his shoulders.
- OK.
And then what did you ask? And then I asked him if it was about the Steven thing.
And then he just shrugged his shoulders and I was like And then I was like, "You know you can talk to me," and then I just went back inside my room.
Tell us about the conversation you had with Brendan regarding Steven.
We didn't have a conversation about it.
Didn't you tell your counselors at school about a conversation you had with Brendan? - Yeah.
- All right.
And you told Officers Wiegert and Fassbender about that conversation as well, right? These two guys right here? You recognize those two guys? - Yeah? - Yes.
That's OK.
You told them about a conversation you had with Brendan about that bonfire and what was in the bonfire.
Tell us about that.
I really don't remember.
All right.
Now Kayla, did you give the officers a statement? - Uh, yeah.
- All right.
Kayla, I'm showing you what has been marked for identification as this exhibit 163.
Would you hold that for me, please? All right.
I'm gonna take my seat here and ask you questions.
And is that the statement that you gave to Officers Fassbender and Wiegert? - Yes.
- All right.
Does reviewing that statement help you remember? - Yes.
- All right.
What did Brendan tell you about the fire? You'll have to pull the microphone a little closer so we can hear you.
He didn't tell me anything.
I I kind of made up the statement and I'm sorry.
All right.
What did you make up? Tell us what you're saying you made up.
That he'd seen body parts in there.
I didn't He didn't see I didn't He didn't tell me anything like that or he didn't see Teresa's body or anything like that.
And you also told the officers in a separate conversation that day that Brendan had seen Teresa alive in Steven's trailer and that she was pinned up in a chair.
- Yes, but that's not true.
- All right.
So you're telling us you made something up to get Brendan into trouble? Not really.
I was just really confused about everything.
No further questions for this witness.
You'd heard some of the news that about what happened to Teresa Halbach? - Yes.
- Was it It was kind of hard to miss some of that, right? Yes.
Grim details were made public yesterday.
Bones and teeth of an adult female were found on the Avery property.
Investigators found pieces of bone and teeth on the Avery property.
According to Brendan Dassey's statements to police, he came home from school and went to Steven Avery's trailer to give him his mail.
Dassey told prosecutors that his uncle Steven had Teresa Halbach shackled to his bed naked.
The complaint says they continue to torture and manually strangle her.
They then put her body in a fire pit, investigators say, throwing bed sheets on top of the fire and scattering some of the remains in a nearby gravel pit.
Did you know about that burn pit behind Steven's garage? - Yes, I heard it on the news.
- Read it in the news? - Yes.
- OK.
Did you read that they found - body parts in the burn pit too? - Yes.
When they spoke to you, did they ask you specifically about the burn pit and the body parts? - Yes.
- OK.
So when you say you that you told them you saw body parts, it was in response to a question they asked you about that? Yes.
Do you think there's some sort of talk in the family or collusion going on where these people are kind of rosying up their stories to each other? I mean, I think, yeah, she's trying to protect a family member just like, uh I think the rest of the family, or most families would, so But the seriousness of I mean, if she is trying to protect Brendan by not telling the whole truth on the witness stand, I mean, that's that's pretty serious business.
I agree that is very serious.
Um She should be telling what she knows, but she didn't.
Um She chose to um, basically lie on the stand.
So that was her choice and I think that came across to the jury, and there's really not much we can do about it anymore.
We believe Brendan's gonna testify.
If at the last second, he says, "I'm not testifying," that's his choice.
But how Brendan stands up to cross-examination is anyone's guess.
He might just roll up into a shell.
I mean, I can see where he might just not even answer any questions, so that could be interesting.
I mean, I think I don't think Brendan's the key to this, but the person you see in the courtroom every day, sitting there staring at his fingers? Um That's Brendan.
There's That's not an act.
That really is Brendan, so Like I say, he's not a sophisticated person.
He's not gonna put on a show for anyone.
Raise your right hand.
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you give now before the court will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth so help you God? - I do.
- Please be seated.
Please state your name and spell your last name for the record.
Brendan Dassey.
D-a-s-s-e-y.
- Morning, Brendan.
- Morning.
- How old are you, Brendan? - Seventeen.
Where were you living on October 31, 2005? With my mom.
Who all lived in that general area? Me and my family, - Steven, Chuckie, my grandma and grandpa.
- OK.
Now you said that Steven, that's your uncle, right? - Yes.
- And he lived where exactly - in relation to your house? - Next door.
About how far from your house? A few hundred A hundred or two hundred or three hundred yards away.
OK.
Yards or feet? Do you know the difference between the two? - Not really.
- OK.
Was it farther than a football field away from you? - No.
- OK.
So less than a football field away from you.
Yeah.
On October 31, 2005, was it a normal day for you? Yes.
Now did you go directly home from getting off the bus that day? Yes.
What'd you do when you got home that day? I played video games.
What did you do after you were done playing video games? I ate something.
Food.
OK.
What was Blaine doing? He was in the kitchen holding his duffel bag.
- Was he going somewhere? - Yeah.
- Where was he going? - Trick-or-treating.
OK.
What did you do after you were done eating? I went into my mom's room and talked to her about that she was I asked her She told me that she was going with Scott to the hospital to see his mom.
What did you do after your mom left? Watched TV.
Do you know how long you watched TV? Until around 6:00 when I got a phone call.
Who called? Blaine's boss.
Do you know for certain it was 6:00 or around 6:00 he called? Yeah.
And how do you know that for certain? 'Cause he called after my mom left.
- OK, so sometime after 5:30 he called? - Yes.
OK.
What'd you do then? I watched TV until I got another phone call at around seven.
OK, and who called you around seven? Steven.
What did Steven call you about? He asked me if I wanted to come over to the bonfire.
What did you do when you got down to the fire? He told me that he wanted to pick up the yard and we drove around in the golf cart and picked up stuff.
OK.
What kind of stuff did you pick up? Wood, tires, an old cabinet and a van seat.
Now is this stuff that's just lying around your yard? Yes.
Did you throw them on the fire? - Some of it.
- What'd you do with the rest? Piled it or Pined it Piled it right by the fire.
So now you're watching the fire for a while, right? - Yes.
- What are you doing? I only can recall that Steven was talking to me about a phone call that he got from Jodi.
When you got home was anyone else home? No.
Did you talk to your mom at all? - Yeah.
- How'd you talk to her? She called on the house phone.
What time did you go to bed? After I got done talking to my mom.
Now, following October 31, 2005 did you lose any weight? - Yes.
- How much did you lose? Five, ten pounds.
Were you doing this on purpose or? - No.
- You weren't trying to lose weight? - Well, I was trying to.
- OK.
Why were you trying to lose weight? 'Cause people were calling me fat and because I thought that my first girlfriend broke up me with me because of my weight.
- You mean first ever? - Yeah.
OK.
- Have you ever seen Teresa Halbach before? - No.
Now you obviously know that name, correct? Yes.
When was the first time that you recall hearing the name or seeing her picture? When she was reported missing.
And how did you come about hearing about her being missing? My mom called, she told me to turn on the news.
- OK, so you watched TV? - Yes.
I have nothing else, Judge.
Just to see the chains on him, it just Yeah.
It just makes me sick.
Because I know what kind of boy he is.
You know.
I'm glad I'm going to see him because, you know, I mean, he appreciates me coming down and, you know.
I know that 'cause I can see it in his eyes.
He had a dream that, um, when he goes up on the stand and everything and he says just as it was ending, somebody came out with a black robe on and they flipped the top out and it was Teresa and she was alive.
And it was all a joke.
Mr.
Dassey, let me, um, play something for you and I want to ask you a couple of questions, all right? OK.
Can I ask you a question? Why would you even go over there? - I don't know.
- Why didn't you just call 911? Or tell me at 5:00 when I got home? Were you afraid of him? Well, yeah.
He just kept You have one minute left.
- What? - He's stronger than me.
Yeah, well, if you would've came home and told me.
Yeah, but then I thought that I would have to go to jail, too.
- No, you wouldn't have.
- Yeah, for knowing about it.
You wouldn't have gotten much out of it then, Brendan.
You would've been more or less a hero.
She would have probably still been alive.
- Yeah? - Yes.
Well, look at that one on TV where that alligator ate this one girl.
- Yeah? - Yeah.
I'm just saying, all you would That's all you would've had to done because I would've put you in the truck and we would've left.
Why didn't you tell your mother at 5:00 what you had seen earlier? - 'Cause it really didn't happen.
- OK.
Was Teresa Halbach alive at 5:00, Mr.
Dassey? She was never there at when I was there.
Never where, sir? I never seen her there.
Mr.
Dassey, you told the officers that you were there and Teresa was alive.
Yes.
She was alive.
But it really didn't happen.
- You made that all up? - Yes.
You just happened to know Teresa's words? No.
How do you know what she said? - I made it up.
- You made it up? Yes.
- You made up the part that you raped her? - Yes.
You made up the part that she told you not to do it? - Yes.
- To do the right thing? Yes.
- And to tell your uncle not to do it? - Yes.
- You made that up? - Yes.
Mr.
Dassey, didn't you tell your mother in a phone call on May 13th that you had gone over to your uncle Steven's after school - and before she came home? - Yes.
And on May 15th, she's asking you why you didn't tell her.
Why didn't you? 'Cause it didn't happen.
Why did you tell her you went over there, sir? I don't know.
- You lied to your mother as well? - Yes.
- And you lied to the police.
- Yes.
- Are you lying You're lying today? - No.
How is it that you were able to tell the police officers so much detail about what happened to Teresa if you weren't there? I don't know.
What do you mean, sir, you don't know? I could've got it out of books.
- Out of books? - Yeah.
What book that you read ever had the story of a woman chained to a bed, raped, stabbed and then her body thrown on a fire? What book was that, sir? I believe it was called Kiss the Girls.
All right.
Who wrote the book? I don't remember his name.
Mr.
Dassey, please look at exhibit 208.
Yeah? - You drew that, correct? - Yes.
- That's your depiction - Yes.
of Teresa Halbach chained to the bed.
I don't understand.
Is that your Is that your description? Is that how she looked when you saw her on the bed in your uncle Steven's bedroom? I didn't see it.
You just made that up? As I said, I got it out of that book.
Exhibit 210.
You drew this as well, sir, correct? Yes.
That is your description of Teresa on the fire in the burn pit.
Yes.
- You made that up? - Yes.
Well, you told the officers on February 27th you saw body parts.
- Yes.
- All right.
You told your cousin Kayla you saw body parts in December.
- No.
- No.
She just made that up? - Yes.
- OK.
How is it that you and Kayla both came up with telling and seeing body parts in the fire if you never talked about it? She could've heard it on the news.
What newscast would that have been, sir? I don't know.
Your seeing body parts in the fire, what newscast was that? I don't know, but I heard that they found bones.
How do you feel about this today? Right now? That I just want to go home.
That's all you feel right now? You just want to go home? And scared.
All right.
Do you feel sorry for Teresa? Well, I know everybody feels sorry for losing someone.
Well, what do you feel? I feel sorry for them.
Why? Why? 'Cause I know how it feels to lose someone that you love.
And you're telling us today that you had nothing to do with the - with the death of Teresa Halbach? - No.
All right.
Why did you tell the officers that you did? I don't know.
- That's all.
- Redirect.
What was the part that you made up? Well, the stuff that didn't really happen is the stuff that I made up.
And what stuff didn't really happen? Where I was over there before 5:00.
Where I helped him kill her and rape her and that.
Why should this jury believe you today? 'Cause I didn't really do it.
When the officers would tell you, "This is not your fault," how did that question or how did that comment in the question make you feel? That I wouldn't be That I wouldn't be taken away from my family and put in jail.
- No matter what you said? - Yeah.
I have nothing else, Judge.
I was just wondering if he was gonna tell the truth or not.
I didn't expect him to.
I was hoping he would, uh slip up a little bit.
Um I don't know.
It was just kind of a weird feeling seeing him up there.
You know, when a question he didn't have an answer to, he would say "I don't know.
" He said nothing about being suggested answers.
He just said he didn't know why he answered things the way he did, so it's kind of foolish to be here when we have a taped confession.
Hi.
You're gonna hear an argument about, "Well, this is just good proper technique.
And that might be true if you're dealing with someone of average, normal, typical intelligence, demeanor and memory.
But this is not the typical young man.
He might have been on this earth for 16 years at the time but he didn't act like it and he didn't think like it.
And isn't it incumbent upon the government when they bring these type of allegations to be able to satisfy you beyond a reasonable doubt that the evidence that they're asking you to rely upon is in fact credible? Don't convict him because this was a horrible thing.
Don't convict him because he couldn't pick his parents.
Don't convict him because he simply doesn't know and he's honest about it.
We are here and we're here for one reason.
There's no issue, there's no doubt.
We are here because the defendant has a constitutional right to have us prove him guilty.
That's why we're here, that's what we've done.
Now, if you were 16 years old, if we were in a situation like this what would be the most disturbing images for the experience if you really had experienced it? It would be those images of a woman pinned up, of body parts in a fire of blood coming out of a concrete floor.
Those are the things that would stick with you in your memory.
And I tell you that because you know what? That's why he confessed.
'Cause he couldn't live with it.
And it started to eke out in his discussion, little by little, to his cousin first, his peer, followed by all that trauma that winter.
The loss of weight, the tearful sessions, sitting at a birthday party and he's in tears because he's by himself.
Why? It's not because he lost a girlfriend, it's because he couldn't live with it.
That's why he confessed.
People who are innocent don't confess.
The defendant confessed because he was guilty, because he did it.
Just as Teresa's lifeless body was consumed by that fire, the defendant's presumption of innocence has been consumed by the fires of his own sexual desire.
He wanted to know what it was like.
There's only one verdict here and that's a verdict of guilty.
And we ask you to bring that verdict.
We ask you to bring justice for Teresa.
Thank you.
Members of the jury, you will not be swayed by sympathy, prejudice or passion.
You will be very careful and deliberate in weighing the evidence.
I charge you to keep your duties steadfastly in mind and as upright citizens, to render a just and true verdict.
The verdict must be reached unanimously.
It's really all about whether the jury believes that taped confession or whether they believe what Brendan Dassey said himself when he testified on Monday that he made up that whole confession.
- Who do you believe? - That's right, Shelby.
After nine days of testimony, evidence and arguments, the jury now has the case in their hands.
They've only been deliberating for about 30 minutes.
We of course have no idea how long it's gonna take for them to come back with a verdict.
The judge simply gave them the case and did not give them any direction as to how long they should deliberate tonight.
So all indications are is that we'll sit here and wait until we hear from them as to whether A: they have a verdict or B: they just want to call it a night, go home and start tomorrow morning.
What's that? - The verdict - Verdict? Here we go! Hey, Brendan.
How are you feeling? Are you nervous? Brendan.
I want to remind all those present that this is a court of law.
The court recognizes the emotional nature of this case, its importance to all parties involved.
However, vocal outbursts or displays of emotion will not be tolerated.
Any violation will result in removal from the courtroom.
As to count one: "We the jury find the defendant, Brendan R.
Dassey, guilty of first degree intentional homicide as party to a crime.
" As to count two: "We the jury find the defendant, Brendan R.
Dassey, guilty of mutilating a corpse as party to a crime.
" As to count three: "We the jury find the defendant, Brendan R.
Dassey, guilty of second degree sexual assault as party to a crime on October 31st, 2005.
" - No.
- Why not? Because they sent my kid away for life.
Was it all Steve's fault? - Did you get that? - Yeah.
We lost! We lost! We lost! Stop! What the fuck? Would youse people get the fuck outta here? Goddamn it! Give the fucking lady some peace! All youse guys are ignorant motherfuckers.
Leave her be! This lady Get the fuck out of here already! You give the Halbachs respect, but you won't give her respect? What the fuck's wrong with youse? You want something for me to say? You want me to say something? I think the Halbachs set this shit all up! I really do! You know Um I can't imagine Brendan Dassey did the things he was convicted of doing.
I just can't imagine he did them.
And I don't believe he did them.
Here's a 17-year-old boy who's who's lost his life.
In a real sense.
He lost everything that makes life worth living and that life might have held for him.
Um Again, the forces that caused that I understand and I don't think are driven by malice Um I think are just are just expressions of ordinary human failing.
But the consequences are what are so sad and awful.
I love youse guys and I know you're innocent.
I love hugs.
I love making people laugh.
I love laughing.
I love my sisters, my mom, my whole family, of course.
I don't hate anyone.
I love a lot of people.
I feel loved.
Mike Halbach, Teresa's younger brother.
Honorable Judge Willis, my family and I would never choose to be involved in a situation like this.
We never chose to feel heartbreak, to feel loss.
But Steven Avery chose my sister Teresa.
He thought only of himself.
He chose to end her life.
He chose to retain his sins inside himself and to point blame at everyone else.
He chose not to hold himself accountable and ask for forgiveness, but to make a jury of 12 of his peers decide if he was accountable or not.
They did that and in doing so, have put you in the position you're in now.
As God guided Teresa's life, let him guide your decision now.
It's your choice.
I ask that you sentence Steven Avery to life in prison without parole.
Thank you.
Mr.
Avery, do you You have the right to allocution if you wish to speak now.
Well, Your Honor, I'm sorry for the Halbach family Teresa Halbach's family, what they're going through, the pain the hate they got.
There's nothing else gonna bring her back.
You know? And my family, what they're going through and everybody's friends and the community.
You know, it's hurting everybody.
And for myself Teresa Halbach I didn't kill.
I am innocent of all of this.
And I figure later on, I'll prove myself innocent.
And I'll take it from there.
That's all I got.
Thank you.
I have to say, Mr.
Avery, that what particularly strikes the court, as I was preparing for today's proceedings, is the is the continuing danger that you pose to those around you, evidenced not only by the homicide in this case, but by its timing in your life.
Whatever crimes may have been a part of your past, at the time you committed this homicide, everything suggested that your life was poised to take a turn for the better.
However, despite having the widespread sympathy of the public and the prospects for a significant financial award, you committed the horrible crime that brings you here to be sentenced today.
In terms of assessing your danger to society, the evidence forces me to conclude that you are probably the most dangerous individual ever to set foot in this courtroom.
Your attorney has argued eloquently that the court should make you eligible for release at some point in the future.
But from what I see, nothing in your life suggests that society would ever be safe from your behavior.
One of the things that strikes me the most is that as you've grown older, your crimes have increased in severity.
This crime was committed at a time when you were 43 years old.
Given the trend of your crimes, uh society has a legitimate right to be concerned that there is a serious risk you would reoffend and commit serious offenses if you're ever permitted to be released from prison.
Most of what ails our criminal justice system lie in unwarranted certitude on the part of police officers and prosecutors and defense lawyers and judges and jurors that they're getting it right.
That they simply are right.
Just a a tragic lack of humility of everyone who participates in our criminal justice system.
We could all say that we're never gonna commit a crime.
But we can never guarantee that someone will never accuse us of a crime.
And if that happens, then, you know, good luck in this criminal justice system.
Is his jury gonna believe that he confessed to a crime he never even commit a murder he never committed? The two questions that the State is gonna ask you to answer are these.
Number one: Was he there? And number two: Did he help? Was he there and did he help? Now, you're gonna hear in this case that there was nothing unique about the March 1st interrogation of Brendan Dassey.
We're gonna show you start to finish the entire admission.
I think it's about four hours long.
And some of the details may be disturbing.
Now we have to give you those details.
We have to play the entire statement for you.
Your job at the end of this case will decide whether that statement ought to be believed.
We're gonna briefly go through what Brendan Dassey says on March 1st.
Brendan's version of what happened to Teresa Halbach.
Brendan Dassey, in again, sometimes graphic detail, will talk about approaching Uncle Steve's trailer.
And before he even knocks on the door, he hears screaming.
Brendan actually sees Teresa shackled with handcuffs and leg irons to the bed.
And by force and by violence, he has sexual intercourse with Teresa Halbach.
After the rape, Steven Avery praises his nephew and says, "That's how you do it.
" Then Steven and Brendan discuss if they should and how they should kill Teresa Halbach.
Steven Avery stabs the victim.
Brendan Dassey, handed the knife by Uncle Steve, cuts Teresa Halbach's throat.
We're gonna be able to prove to you in this case things the public didn't know, things the police didn't know were provided by a young man who was at the scene.
Was he there? Absolutely.
Did he help? Absolutely.
It is important to remember who is on trial.
You'll hear days and days of evidence about Steven Avery, his DNA, his blood found in the SUV, the bullet fragment found in his garage, the ignition key found in his bedroom.
You won't hear the same evidence involving Brendan Dassey.
There won't be any DNA.
No blood.
No saliva.
No sweat.
No hair.
Nothing.
No science that's gonna point you to Brendan Dassey.
This is Brendan Dassey's trial, not Steven's trial.
It's about a 16-year-old high school student with below-average cognitive abilities a fourth-grade reading level.
It's about a shy introvert, socially inept, suggestible child.
You'll learn that Brendan will meet two highly-trained, intelligent, adult police officers.
At times they cozy up to Brendan to get the answer they want.
At times they pull back from Brendan when he's not giving them the answer they want and they expect.
It's like a new puppy dog.
When he does what he's supposed to do, he gets his pat on the head and a treat.
"Good job, Brendan.
Good job.
Good boy.
" But when it's not what they want, "We're leaving, Brendan.
Until you tell us what we want to hear.
" When you watch the videos carefully, they'll be exposed for what they are.
And I think they're just garbage.
Love you, Brendan! This first statement that you're gonna hear is going to be from an officer who was up in Marinette and spoke to Brendan in somewhere between November 4th and November 10th.
They actually spoke to him twice so they may have both statements.
One was written, one was actually audiotaped.
Last Monday, do you remember seeing this girl at all? - I was at school.
- OK.
After school you come home.
You ever see this girl before? I just knew about it on Thursday because my mom called me and told me to turn on channel 11.
- OK.
- She was missing.
And you're dropped off, it's such an event that someone's standing in your field taking a picture of that van that you remember that too, don't you? The bus driver remembers it, the kids on the school bus remember it, the girl taking pictures, you remember that? - Well, I wasn't looking at the - Huh? I wasn't looking in the field.
It's either a yes or no, I mean I'm not putting nothing in your mind.
Now, tell us generally about Mr.
Dassey's demeanor during the course of your interview with him.
Um I interview a lot of people and Mr.
Dassey's demeanor was, uh different.
When it came to specifics regarding Teresa Halbach, Steven Avery, what happened on that day, he'd sit there, head down, withdrawn, motionless.
It was a demeanor that I felt from all the years of training experience that I've had in dealing with people, an inner struggle, a conflict, he was hiding something.
It was not gonna be a ten-minute interview as to what he saw.
There was something more.
Detective, I guess you would agree with me that you you have no degrees of any sort, education or training, to evaluate why an individual may react to you in the way they do.
Is that a fair statement? You're not a psychologist.
- I'm not a psychologist, that's correct.
- OK.
And certainly not a child psychologist.
I am not a child psychologist, that's correct.
OK.
You had never been around this young man before, had you? - No.
- You had no idea what he acted like when he was dealing with a teacher, for example.
- No.
- You had no idea what he acted like when he was dealing with a person like yourself, an authoritative figure.
- Prior to our conversation, no.
- OK.
You had no idea whether you were dealing with what you might typically call an average teenager or a teenager with any type of limitations.
Is that a fair statement? - Yes.
- OK.
And you acknowledge there's nothing at all in your report about his demeanor.
No.
So you're having to rely entirely upon your memory - when you describe his demeanor.
- Yes.
OK, and that's about 16 months ago, right? - Yes.
- OK.
I think he's doing a damn good job.
Really good job.
Directing your attention to February 20th, 2006, what plans, if any, did you investigators have relative to speaking with other members of the Avery family? In order to do a thorough investigation, we needed to go back and talk to everybody who had access - or who lived on that property.
- All right.
Now who was the first one of the family members to be re-interviewed? By my recollection, it was probably Kayla, most likely.
The interview started out about Steve Avery and Kayla was talking about her relationship with Steve Avery.
And just about at the end of that interview, Kayla, out of the blue, basically came out and told us that, uh, she had a cousin by the name of Brendan and that Brendan was, quote, "acting up lately.
" Brendan would just start crying uncontrollably.
She also told us that Brendan had lost what she estimated to be about 40 pounds.
Now, based on this information, what did you decide to do? We decided that, um, we needed to talk to Brendan again.
And when did you talk to Brendan again? On February 27th of 2006.
Myself and Agent Fassbender had went to the Mishicot school system and that's where we met with Mr.
Dassey.
Brendan, we know that on Halloween, you were with him and helped him tend to a fire.
What did you see in the fire? Some branches, I saw a cabinet and some tires.
See any body parts? Well, some garbage bags on there.
Mark and I, yeah, we're cops.
But I'm not right now.
I'm a father that has a kid your age, too.
There's nothing I'd like more than to come over and give you a hug 'cause I know you're hurting.
'Cause I gotta believe you did see something in the fire.
Talk about it.
I promise, I will not leave you high and dry.
I'll stand behind you.
The burn pit, Brendan, was no bigger than this table.
I find it quite difficult to believe that if there was a body in there that you wouldn't have seen something, a hand, a foot, a head, hair, something.
You saw some body parts.
Tell us what you saw.
- It's OK to tell us.
- It's OK.
Tell us what you saw.
Toes.
After this interview, we contacted District Attorney Kratz to inform him of what we had learned from that interview.
Mr.
Kratz requested that we memorialize this interview in a better fashion, so at that point we made arrangements to go to Two Rivers Police Department where there would be a videotape interview done.
Where was the defendant's mother, Barb Janda, at that time? We had spoke to Barb prior to doing the interview and indicated she had every right to be in the interview if she wished to be.
At that time she declined.
She waited in a outer waiting area of the police department while we conducted the interview.
All right.
Now at that After those, um, two interviews that particular day, did you think that he was a suspect at that particular point? Well, at that time, that's the first time Brendan places himself at the crime scene, places himself at the fire.
In my thinking at that point, he's still a witness, a witness to something horrific.
He tells us that he sees body parts in a fire.
I mean So, we're thinking he's a witness to something at that point, yeah.
Earlier we heard from Special Agent Fassbender that the defendant and his mother were put up at the Fox Hills Hotel in Mishicot.
How did that come to pass? First and foremost, on any law enforcement's mind is safety.
I mean, our job is to protect people.
That's bottom line.
Because of the information he told us, if there was somebody else that lived out there on the Avery property that would've found out and may have also been involved, we were worried for his safety, that they would somehow get to him and maybe harm him.
So we thought, to be on the safe side, we needed to put him up somewhere off of that property.
Did you have any feeling as to whether or not the defendant had told you everything that he knew at that time? My feeling was no, he didn't.
He knew more 'cause every time we would talk to him he'd give you a little bit more, give you a little bit more.
So then did you make arrangements to re-interview the defendant? We did.
Yes.
That would take us to March 1st.
Um, at that point we contacted Brendan's mother again, told her that we would like to take Brendan to the Manitowoc Sheriff's Department so we could do a videotaped interview of Brendan to see what else he maybe had known, see what else maybe he saw.
It was obvious that he knew more than he was telling us.
I just wanted to just go over this real quick again.
You remember these rights? Your Miranda rights that I read you? - Yeah.
- You still want to talk to us? - Yeah.
- OK.
Just wanted to make sure of that.
Brendan, I want you to relax.
- Brendan? There you go.
- Thank you.
You're welcome.
Your Honor, I believe we have agreed that the remainder of the discussion does not contain pertinent questioning of the defendant, and I think we agreed to stop the tape at this particular point.
To the Defense, is that true? It is, Your Honor.
All right.
The videotapes today it just shows me that - He wasn't - the police were trying to get him - to make up a story.
- Mm-hm.
- 'Cause it's personal.
- You know, it just comes across that way.
Well, he told me umpteen times that he didn't do nothing to her.
- That he's still a virgin.
Yeah, I know.
- And there's no DNA evidence.
There's no DNA evidence to prove that he was in the trailer, there's no evidence of hers in that, in Steven's trailer.
- Right.
- There's no DNA evidence.
And that was my biggest thing.
If she If it happened as Brendan supposedly said it did, there would've been DNA evidence in there.
Blood, something.
That's just like Mark Wiegert on the stand today.
He said that that I declined to go in with Brendan.
I wanted to go in with Brendan.
They wouldn't let me.
So he's lying up on the stand too.
Do you know how many times either you or Agent Fassbender on March 1st, the video one that we all watched today suggested to Brendan or told Brendan that he was a liar? No.
I don't know how many times.
Would it surprise you that it was in excess of 75 times during the course of the interview that either you or Fassbender said something to him suggesting or directly stating to him, that he was a liar? Several times we told him we did not believe what he was telling us.
Yes.
Do you know how many times after he was told that he was a liar that he changed his answer? No.
I don't know how many times.
Take a look at that middle paragraph.
"Fassbender is encouraging Brendan to say things that might make Brendan look a little bad in order for him to be believed.
" He tells him "to tell the whole truth, don't leave anything out, don't make anything up.
" But it was in fact said to him, "It might make you look a little bad or make you look like you were more involved than you want to be.
It's hard to do, but it's good from the vantage point to say, 'Hey, there's no doubt you're telling the truth.
'" Yes, that's what was said.
Part of breaking down those barriers.
But doesn't that encourage him to say something - irregardless of whether it's true or not? - No Because someone in a position of authority is telling him that, "If you say something that doesn't help you, then we might believe you.
" No, I wouldn't characterize it that way.
The police are actually taught a technique from this org this outfit out of Chicago, Reid.
And they're taught to elicit confessions, not get to the truth.
They The police believe it's the same thing.
Confession and truth are the same thing.
But it's not.
The truth is what happened.
A confession isn't necessarily what happened.
You accused him during the course of this interview of shooting Teresa, correct? Yep, and which he was able to resist every time we accused him.
Well, the truth of the matter is you don't know if it's right and you don't know if it's wrong, do you? - Whether or not he shot Teresa? - Correct.
I know he was there when she was shot.
- Whether he actually pulled the trigger - Well, let me stop you there.
You know he was there because he told you that, right? And because of the evidence.
Well The cuffs, the bullets, the shells, the shovels, the seat, everything that the government's paraded in here none of these items have fingerprints, DNA or any other scientific evidence connecting Brendan Dassey to the death of Teresa Halbach, yes or no? That's correct.
They had five days to clean up.
I thought Investigator Wiegert did a tremendous job.
I mean, we've been praising the police all along.
Uh we We love the police.
The other family obviously doesn't, so Um But, yeah, we owe a lot to them for their the work that they've done for my family and for Teresa.
He never got into trouble before.
At all.
He was always a good kid.
Even his school wants him to come back to school.
And my son always tells me, "Blame it on Mark.
Blame it on Mark.
" And that's who I'm blaming.
Did there come a time where you re-interviewed Kayla Avery? We did.
Um, shortly after Brendan was arrested, actually.
I believe it was March 7th of 2006.
Kayla came out and told us quite a few things at that point.
Basically she indicated to us that, um, Brendan had told Kayla that he had went and got the mail and went over to Steven Avery's residence.
And went into the residence and observed Teresa Halbach pinned up in Steve Avery's bedroom.
Kayla went on to tell us how Brendan described seeing body parts later that day, or that evening in the fire behind Steve Avery's residence.
Good morning.
- How old are you, Kayla? - Fifteen.
And how are you related to Brendan? We're first cousins.
My dad is Barbara's brother, and Brendan's Barbara's son.
OK, very good.
I want to direct your attention to a time in December of 2005.
Did you have a conversation with Brendan about Teresa Halbach? - Kinda, yeah.
- All right.
Would you tell us about that conversation with Brendan? Well, um Well, not in December, in November.
OK.
Tell us about it.
In November, um, we were having a birthday party.
He was sitting in our hallway and, um, he was just sitting there.
One of my friends looked out the door and seen him crying and then she came to me and then I went out there by him and I asked him what was wrong, - and all he did is shrugged his shoulders.
- OK.
And then what did you ask? And then I asked him if it was about the Steven thing.
And then he just shrugged his shoulders and I was like And then I was like, "You know you can talk to me," and then I just went back inside my room.
Tell us about the conversation you had with Brendan regarding Steven.
We didn't have a conversation about it.
Didn't you tell your counselors at school about a conversation you had with Brendan? - Yeah.
- All right.
And you told Officers Wiegert and Fassbender about that conversation as well, right? These two guys right here? You recognize those two guys? - Yeah? - Yes.
That's OK.
You told them about a conversation you had with Brendan about that bonfire and what was in the bonfire.
Tell us about that.
I really don't remember.
All right.
Now Kayla, did you give the officers a statement? - Uh, yeah.
- All right.
Kayla, I'm showing you what has been marked for identification as this exhibit 163.
Would you hold that for me, please? All right.
I'm gonna take my seat here and ask you questions.
And is that the statement that you gave to Officers Fassbender and Wiegert? - Yes.
- All right.
Does reviewing that statement help you remember? - Yes.
- All right.
What did Brendan tell you about the fire? You'll have to pull the microphone a little closer so we can hear you.
He didn't tell me anything.
I I kind of made up the statement and I'm sorry.
All right.
What did you make up? Tell us what you're saying you made up.
That he'd seen body parts in there.
I didn't He didn't see I didn't He didn't tell me anything like that or he didn't see Teresa's body or anything like that.
And you also told the officers in a separate conversation that day that Brendan had seen Teresa alive in Steven's trailer and that she was pinned up in a chair.
- Yes, but that's not true.
- All right.
So you're telling us you made something up to get Brendan into trouble? Not really.
I was just really confused about everything.
No further questions for this witness.
You'd heard some of the news that about what happened to Teresa Halbach? - Yes.
- Was it It was kind of hard to miss some of that, right? Yes.
Grim details were made public yesterday.
Bones and teeth of an adult female were found on the Avery property.
Investigators found pieces of bone and teeth on the Avery property.
According to Brendan Dassey's statements to police, he came home from school and went to Steven Avery's trailer to give him his mail.
Dassey told prosecutors that his uncle Steven had Teresa Halbach shackled to his bed naked.
The complaint says they continue to torture and manually strangle her.
They then put her body in a fire pit, investigators say, throwing bed sheets on top of the fire and scattering some of the remains in a nearby gravel pit.
Did you know about that burn pit behind Steven's garage? - Yes, I heard it on the news.
- Read it in the news? - Yes.
- OK.
Did you read that they found - body parts in the burn pit too? - Yes.
When they spoke to you, did they ask you specifically about the burn pit and the body parts? - Yes.
- OK.
So when you say you that you told them you saw body parts, it was in response to a question they asked you about that? Yes.
Do you think there's some sort of talk in the family or collusion going on where these people are kind of rosying up their stories to each other? I mean, I think, yeah, she's trying to protect a family member just like, uh I think the rest of the family, or most families would, so But the seriousness of I mean, if she is trying to protect Brendan by not telling the whole truth on the witness stand, I mean, that's that's pretty serious business.
I agree that is very serious.
Um She should be telling what she knows, but she didn't.
Um She chose to um, basically lie on the stand.
So that was her choice and I think that came across to the jury, and there's really not much we can do about it anymore.
We believe Brendan's gonna testify.
If at the last second, he says, "I'm not testifying," that's his choice.
But how Brendan stands up to cross-examination is anyone's guess.
He might just roll up into a shell.
I mean, I can see where he might just not even answer any questions, so that could be interesting.
I mean, I think I don't think Brendan's the key to this, but the person you see in the courtroom every day, sitting there staring at his fingers? Um That's Brendan.
There's That's not an act.
That really is Brendan, so Like I say, he's not a sophisticated person.
He's not gonna put on a show for anyone.
Raise your right hand.
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you give now before the court will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth so help you God? - I do.
- Please be seated.
Please state your name and spell your last name for the record.
Brendan Dassey.
D-a-s-s-e-y.
- Morning, Brendan.
- Morning.
- How old are you, Brendan? - Seventeen.
Where were you living on October 31, 2005? With my mom.
Who all lived in that general area? Me and my family, - Steven, Chuckie, my grandma and grandpa.
- OK.
Now you said that Steven, that's your uncle, right? - Yes.
- And he lived where exactly - in relation to your house? - Next door.
About how far from your house? A few hundred A hundred or two hundred or three hundred yards away.
OK.
Yards or feet? Do you know the difference between the two? - Not really.
- OK.
Was it farther than a football field away from you? - No.
- OK.
So less than a football field away from you.
Yeah.
On October 31, 2005, was it a normal day for you? Yes.
Now did you go directly home from getting off the bus that day? Yes.
What'd you do when you got home that day? I played video games.
What did you do after you were done playing video games? I ate something.
Food.
OK.
What was Blaine doing? He was in the kitchen holding his duffel bag.
- Was he going somewhere? - Yeah.
- Where was he going? - Trick-or-treating.
OK.
What did you do after you were done eating? I went into my mom's room and talked to her about that she was I asked her She told me that she was going with Scott to the hospital to see his mom.
What did you do after your mom left? Watched TV.
Do you know how long you watched TV? Until around 6:00 when I got a phone call.
Who called? Blaine's boss.
Do you know for certain it was 6:00 or around 6:00 he called? Yeah.
And how do you know that for certain? 'Cause he called after my mom left.
- OK, so sometime after 5:30 he called? - Yes.
OK.
What'd you do then? I watched TV until I got another phone call at around seven.
OK, and who called you around seven? Steven.
What did Steven call you about? He asked me if I wanted to come over to the bonfire.
What did you do when you got down to the fire? He told me that he wanted to pick up the yard and we drove around in the golf cart and picked up stuff.
OK.
What kind of stuff did you pick up? Wood, tires, an old cabinet and a van seat.
Now is this stuff that's just lying around your yard? Yes.
Did you throw them on the fire? - Some of it.
- What'd you do with the rest? Piled it or Pined it Piled it right by the fire.
So now you're watching the fire for a while, right? - Yes.
- What are you doing? I only can recall that Steven was talking to me about a phone call that he got from Jodi.
When you got home was anyone else home? No.
Did you talk to your mom at all? - Yeah.
- How'd you talk to her? She called on the house phone.
What time did you go to bed? After I got done talking to my mom.
Now, following October 31, 2005 did you lose any weight? - Yes.
- How much did you lose? Five, ten pounds.
Were you doing this on purpose or? - No.
- You weren't trying to lose weight? - Well, I was trying to.
- OK.
Why were you trying to lose weight? 'Cause people were calling me fat and because I thought that my first girlfriend broke up me with me because of my weight.
- You mean first ever? - Yeah.
OK.
- Have you ever seen Teresa Halbach before? - No.
Now you obviously know that name, correct? Yes.
When was the first time that you recall hearing the name or seeing her picture? When she was reported missing.
And how did you come about hearing about her being missing? My mom called, she told me to turn on the news.
- OK, so you watched TV? - Yes.
I have nothing else, Judge.
Just to see the chains on him, it just Yeah.
It just makes me sick.
Because I know what kind of boy he is.
You know.
I'm glad I'm going to see him because, you know, I mean, he appreciates me coming down and, you know.
I know that 'cause I can see it in his eyes.
He had a dream that, um, when he goes up on the stand and everything and he says just as it was ending, somebody came out with a black robe on and they flipped the top out and it was Teresa and she was alive.
And it was all a joke.
Mr.
Dassey, let me, um, play something for you and I want to ask you a couple of questions, all right? OK.
Can I ask you a question? Why would you even go over there? - I don't know.
- Why didn't you just call 911? Or tell me at 5:00 when I got home? Were you afraid of him? Well, yeah.
He just kept You have one minute left.
- What? - He's stronger than me.
Yeah, well, if you would've came home and told me.
Yeah, but then I thought that I would have to go to jail, too.
- No, you wouldn't have.
- Yeah, for knowing about it.
You wouldn't have gotten much out of it then, Brendan.
You would've been more or less a hero.
She would have probably still been alive.
- Yeah? - Yes.
Well, look at that one on TV where that alligator ate this one girl.
- Yeah? - Yeah.
I'm just saying, all you would That's all you would've had to done because I would've put you in the truck and we would've left.
Why didn't you tell your mother at 5:00 what you had seen earlier? - 'Cause it really didn't happen.
- OK.
Was Teresa Halbach alive at 5:00, Mr.
Dassey? She was never there at when I was there.
Never where, sir? I never seen her there.
Mr.
Dassey, you told the officers that you were there and Teresa was alive.
Yes.
She was alive.
But it really didn't happen.
- You made that all up? - Yes.
You just happened to know Teresa's words? No.
How do you know what she said? - I made it up.
- You made it up? Yes.
- You made up the part that you raped her? - Yes.
You made up the part that she told you not to do it? - Yes.
- To do the right thing? Yes.
- And to tell your uncle not to do it? - Yes.
- You made that up? - Yes.
Mr.
Dassey, didn't you tell your mother in a phone call on May 13th that you had gone over to your uncle Steven's after school - and before she came home? - Yes.
And on May 15th, she's asking you why you didn't tell her.
Why didn't you? 'Cause it didn't happen.
Why did you tell her you went over there, sir? I don't know.
- You lied to your mother as well? - Yes.
- And you lied to the police.
- Yes.
- Are you lying You're lying today? - No.
How is it that you were able to tell the police officers so much detail about what happened to Teresa if you weren't there? I don't know.
What do you mean, sir, you don't know? I could've got it out of books.
- Out of books? - Yeah.
What book that you read ever had the story of a woman chained to a bed, raped, stabbed and then her body thrown on a fire? What book was that, sir? I believe it was called Kiss the Girls.
All right.
Who wrote the book? I don't remember his name.
Mr.
Dassey, please look at exhibit 208.
Yeah? - You drew that, correct? - Yes.
- That's your depiction - Yes.
of Teresa Halbach chained to the bed.
I don't understand.
Is that your Is that your description? Is that how she looked when you saw her on the bed in your uncle Steven's bedroom? I didn't see it.
You just made that up? As I said, I got it out of that book.
Exhibit 210.
You drew this as well, sir, correct? Yes.
That is your description of Teresa on the fire in the burn pit.
Yes.
- You made that up? - Yes.
Well, you told the officers on February 27th you saw body parts.
- Yes.
- All right.
You told your cousin Kayla you saw body parts in December.
- No.
- No.
She just made that up? - Yes.
- OK.
How is it that you and Kayla both came up with telling and seeing body parts in the fire if you never talked about it? She could've heard it on the news.
What newscast would that have been, sir? I don't know.
Your seeing body parts in the fire, what newscast was that? I don't know, but I heard that they found bones.
How do you feel about this today? Right now? That I just want to go home.
That's all you feel right now? You just want to go home? And scared.
All right.
Do you feel sorry for Teresa? Well, I know everybody feels sorry for losing someone.
Well, what do you feel? I feel sorry for them.
Why? Why? 'Cause I know how it feels to lose someone that you love.
And you're telling us today that you had nothing to do with the - with the death of Teresa Halbach? - No.
All right.
Why did you tell the officers that you did? I don't know.
- That's all.
- Redirect.
What was the part that you made up? Well, the stuff that didn't really happen is the stuff that I made up.
And what stuff didn't really happen? Where I was over there before 5:00.
Where I helped him kill her and rape her and that.
Why should this jury believe you today? 'Cause I didn't really do it.
When the officers would tell you, "This is not your fault," how did that question or how did that comment in the question make you feel? That I wouldn't be That I wouldn't be taken away from my family and put in jail.
- No matter what you said? - Yeah.
I have nothing else, Judge.
I was just wondering if he was gonna tell the truth or not.
I didn't expect him to.
I was hoping he would, uh slip up a little bit.
Um I don't know.
It was just kind of a weird feeling seeing him up there.
You know, when a question he didn't have an answer to, he would say "I don't know.
" He said nothing about being suggested answers.
He just said he didn't know why he answered things the way he did, so it's kind of foolish to be here when we have a taped confession.
Hi.
You're gonna hear an argument about, "Well, this is just good proper technique.
And that might be true if you're dealing with someone of average, normal, typical intelligence, demeanor and memory.
But this is not the typical young man.
He might have been on this earth for 16 years at the time but he didn't act like it and he didn't think like it.
And isn't it incumbent upon the government when they bring these type of allegations to be able to satisfy you beyond a reasonable doubt that the evidence that they're asking you to rely upon is in fact credible? Don't convict him because this was a horrible thing.
Don't convict him because he couldn't pick his parents.
Don't convict him because he simply doesn't know and he's honest about it.
We are here and we're here for one reason.
There's no issue, there's no doubt.
We are here because the defendant has a constitutional right to have us prove him guilty.
That's why we're here, that's what we've done.
Now, if you were 16 years old, if we were in a situation like this what would be the most disturbing images for the experience if you really had experienced it? It would be those images of a woman pinned up, of body parts in a fire of blood coming out of a concrete floor.
Those are the things that would stick with you in your memory.
And I tell you that because you know what? That's why he confessed.
'Cause he couldn't live with it.
And it started to eke out in his discussion, little by little, to his cousin first, his peer, followed by all that trauma that winter.
The loss of weight, the tearful sessions, sitting at a birthday party and he's in tears because he's by himself.
Why? It's not because he lost a girlfriend, it's because he couldn't live with it.
That's why he confessed.
People who are innocent don't confess.
The defendant confessed because he was guilty, because he did it.
Just as Teresa's lifeless body was consumed by that fire, the defendant's presumption of innocence has been consumed by the fires of his own sexual desire.
He wanted to know what it was like.
There's only one verdict here and that's a verdict of guilty.
And we ask you to bring that verdict.
We ask you to bring justice for Teresa.
Thank you.
Members of the jury, you will not be swayed by sympathy, prejudice or passion.
You will be very careful and deliberate in weighing the evidence.
I charge you to keep your duties steadfastly in mind and as upright citizens, to render a just and true verdict.
The verdict must be reached unanimously.
It's really all about whether the jury believes that taped confession or whether they believe what Brendan Dassey said himself when he testified on Monday that he made up that whole confession.
- Who do you believe? - That's right, Shelby.
After nine days of testimony, evidence and arguments, the jury now has the case in their hands.
They've only been deliberating for about 30 minutes.
We of course have no idea how long it's gonna take for them to come back with a verdict.
The judge simply gave them the case and did not give them any direction as to how long they should deliberate tonight.
So all indications are is that we'll sit here and wait until we hear from them as to whether A: they have a verdict or B: they just want to call it a night, go home and start tomorrow morning.
What's that? - The verdict - Verdict? Here we go! Hey, Brendan.
How are you feeling? Are you nervous? Brendan.
I want to remind all those present that this is a court of law.
The court recognizes the emotional nature of this case, its importance to all parties involved.
However, vocal outbursts or displays of emotion will not be tolerated.
Any violation will result in removal from the courtroom.
As to count one: "We the jury find the defendant, Brendan R.
Dassey, guilty of first degree intentional homicide as party to a crime.
" As to count two: "We the jury find the defendant, Brendan R.
Dassey, guilty of mutilating a corpse as party to a crime.
" As to count three: "We the jury find the defendant, Brendan R.
Dassey, guilty of second degree sexual assault as party to a crime on October 31st, 2005.
" - No.
- Why not? Because they sent my kid away for life.
Was it all Steve's fault? - Did you get that? - Yeah.
We lost! We lost! We lost! Stop! What the fuck? Would youse people get the fuck outta here? Goddamn it! Give the fucking lady some peace! All youse guys are ignorant motherfuckers.
Leave her be! This lady Get the fuck out of here already! You give the Halbachs respect, but you won't give her respect? What the fuck's wrong with youse? You want something for me to say? You want me to say something? I think the Halbachs set this shit all up! I really do! You know Um I can't imagine Brendan Dassey did the things he was convicted of doing.
I just can't imagine he did them.
And I don't believe he did them.
Here's a 17-year-old boy who's who's lost his life.
In a real sense.
He lost everything that makes life worth living and that life might have held for him.
Um Again, the forces that caused that I understand and I don't think are driven by malice Um I think are just are just expressions of ordinary human failing.
But the consequences are what are so sad and awful.
I love youse guys and I know you're innocent.
I love hugs.
I love making people laugh.
I love laughing.
I love my sisters, my mom, my whole family, of course.
I don't hate anyone.
I love a lot of people.
I feel loved.
Mike Halbach, Teresa's younger brother.
Honorable Judge Willis, my family and I would never choose to be involved in a situation like this.
We never chose to feel heartbreak, to feel loss.
But Steven Avery chose my sister Teresa.
He thought only of himself.
He chose to end her life.
He chose to retain his sins inside himself and to point blame at everyone else.
He chose not to hold himself accountable and ask for forgiveness, but to make a jury of 12 of his peers decide if he was accountable or not.
They did that and in doing so, have put you in the position you're in now.
As God guided Teresa's life, let him guide your decision now.
It's your choice.
I ask that you sentence Steven Avery to life in prison without parole.
Thank you.
Mr.
Avery, do you You have the right to allocution if you wish to speak now.
Well, Your Honor, I'm sorry for the Halbach family Teresa Halbach's family, what they're going through, the pain the hate they got.
There's nothing else gonna bring her back.
You know? And my family, what they're going through and everybody's friends and the community.
You know, it's hurting everybody.
And for myself Teresa Halbach I didn't kill.
I am innocent of all of this.
And I figure later on, I'll prove myself innocent.
And I'll take it from there.
That's all I got.
Thank you.
I have to say, Mr.
Avery, that what particularly strikes the court, as I was preparing for today's proceedings, is the is the continuing danger that you pose to those around you, evidenced not only by the homicide in this case, but by its timing in your life.
Whatever crimes may have been a part of your past, at the time you committed this homicide, everything suggested that your life was poised to take a turn for the better.
However, despite having the widespread sympathy of the public and the prospects for a significant financial award, you committed the horrible crime that brings you here to be sentenced today.
In terms of assessing your danger to society, the evidence forces me to conclude that you are probably the most dangerous individual ever to set foot in this courtroom.
Your attorney has argued eloquently that the court should make you eligible for release at some point in the future.
But from what I see, nothing in your life suggests that society would ever be safe from your behavior.
One of the things that strikes me the most is that as you've grown older, your crimes have increased in severity.
This crime was committed at a time when you were 43 years old.
Given the trend of your crimes, uh society has a legitimate right to be concerned that there is a serious risk you would reoffend and commit serious offenses if you're ever permitted to be released from prison.
Most of what ails our criminal justice system lie in unwarranted certitude on the part of police officers and prosecutors and defense lawyers and judges and jurors that they're getting it right.
That they simply are right.
Just a a tragic lack of humility of everyone who participates in our criminal justice system.
We could all say that we're never gonna commit a crime.
But we can never guarantee that someone will never accuse us of a crime.
And if that happens, then, you know, good luck in this criminal justice system.