Louis Theroux s01e11 Episode Script
A Place for Paedophiles
1 Are you a paedophile? That's a very controversial subject as far as identifying people.
If I say that I am, it suggests I still have the interest, and I still am practising that.
If I say ex-paedophile, then, of course, that means it's somebody who has done it at one time, had that interest, and no longer does.
That's what I classify myself as.
With everything in society telling you that this is abhorrent behaviour, did that not affect your thinking at all? You must have known that was a huge I knew it was looked down upon.
As far as the legal aspect, I didn't know what the law specifically said.
Do you understand there's people out there, people who would watch this programme, and hear that you had molested a six-year-old, a seven-year-old, and there's a large number of people who'd want to kill you for that? Yes, I believe there are.
I don't wanna judge those people, but one wrong, or two wrongs don't make a right.
This is Coalinga, a mental hospital in California, built to contain and treat the state's most serious sex offenders.
What was your original conviction for? I was committed for lewd and lascivious acts on two minor children, females, ages 10 and 12.
These men all served prison time for child molestation and rape.
But since completing their sentences, instead of being released, they've been diagnosed with sexual disorders, and sent here against their will.
OK, let's be real clear, I want this on record.
I am not, now, attracted to children.
I don't seek out the affections of children, nor do I want to have sex with children.
Is that clear? Coalinga has been hailed by some as the best solution to the problem of paedophilia.
It has also been accused of being a kind of prison in disguise.
For the first time, it had opened its doors to a documentary crew.
Around 800 patients are confined at Coalinga.
Hospital policy is to refer to them as "individuals'; and address them by their surnames.
One of the individuals in treatment is Mr Rigby.
A former high school sports coach, he served ten years in prison for abusing some of his students.
Instead of being released, he was committed to hospital.
He'd let me see his file, and agreed to talk openly about his crimes in the company of one of his therapists.
- Louis.
- How you doing, Mr Rigby? - Fine, sir, thank you.
- Joe, are you Mr Rigby's social worker? - Yes.
- So you have a pretty close relationship? - Do you work closely together? - We work fairly close, yeah, I see him every month at his team, and we have groups together.
How long have you been working together, you two? Well, I've known Joe forwhat? Almost a year and a half now, since being at Coalinga.
How do you feel it's been going with Mr Rigby? Excellent.
He's doing quite well, he does everything that's asked of him.
And, er He'she's just You can't have a better client - any challenge, he is up to face it.
This is your room, Mr Rigby? This is our dorm, there are four men that share the dorm.
This is my room area here.
- This is your area? - Yes.
So you've got some pictures of classical statues there? - Oh, yes.
- And that is? Explain? - Pardon me? - What is that all about? Only my appreciation for art and culture.
There seems to be an interest in the male physical form there.
Yes.
Yes.
I'm an open gay homosexual man here.
I don't flaunt it, but I admire the male figure, so It's kind of something I identify with.
While other roommates might have pictures of surfing girls, we have an artist in the room, so we each kinda have our own unique, umtaste.
This seems a little risqué.
That's quite close to the to the prohibited? Oh, I think it's a little bit of my love for ballet, and I suppose it has a male eroticism to it.
With a youngish man, you know, could be 16, could be 18, could be Well, I suppose that has potential, yes.
I don't look at 'em - Say again? - I don't look at 'em as teenagers.
I look at 'em as, basically, ballet performers - they all look pretty mature to me.
Is it, OK, Joe, to have imagery that has a slightly erotic overtone that's in the area of what the offences were? Um Well, I've looked I've never seen that picture before, but they look like adults to me, aren't they? So, what was the question again? I'm sorry.
- Is that OK? - Is that OK? Yeah, as long as they're of age, that's OK.
One of the things I was reading in your file was that you'd started something, or there had been something called The Togas? - Right.
- A club which that you kind of organised, or ran, in which well, maybe you should say what it is.
Well, the club was the basis of an athletic club.
The problem with it - it ended up with a sexual initiation, which I encouraged which I certainly found arousing, and definitely was a way of sexualising boys through that initiation.
And these were boys aged? Those boys were aged, primarily, 11 and 12 years of age.
11 to 12? And what was the initiation? It was sticking their penis in a tube and it was a method of of getting through their boundaries of modesty.
That allowed you to? To sexualise them, to allow myself to receive gratification.
And you encouraged them to orally copulate each other? No, they didn't do that.
No.
That's in the that is in the clinical records.
That wasn't with The Togas - there were two other boys that were that I encouraged to do that.
Given that this was part of your thinking at one time, how will you - if and when you get out - how will you guard against that creeping back into your thinking? By guarding my environment.
By understanding againour high risk, and my number-one high risk is being around children, and I can respect that.
I don't probably expect society to accept me in the long run, but I'd like to show 'em I can be a better citizen.
- How are you? - How you doing? - How you doing? - Good, good.
Much of the treatment at Coalinga takes place in group sessions.
Like I said, one of the signs of sexual preoccupation is total sexual outlet of seven or more orgasms a week, for an extended period of time, found in one study.
So these are examples of too much the interest, the overall Individuals are encouraged to open up about their crimes and their ongoing thoughts and fantasies, in an attempt to recognise and repress any deviant urges.
For one thing, I'm reducing the sexual content of any materials that I produce.
I'm also masturbating less, and I'm working on trying to extend that period, um to be longer between masturbations.
One of the facilitators of these groups is Ernie Marshall.
You're a social worker here, and, um can you tell me, I mean, you get to know the guys that are under your care pretty well, would you say? That's your job in a way.
Yes.
I do.
The people that are I read their records, and I read their charts - I happen to be a hands-on type guy.
Do you have to like them? You don't have to.
Cos in a way, we're talking about a class of people that most people would regard as, you know, the least likeable of anyone in the world.
I don't define people by something they've done, so one part of all these guys here is their prior behaviour, their sexual behaviour, but there's a whole piece of a human being that's not that.
It's something I'm grappling with too, cos someone who's I'm attempting to form a kind of relationship for the sake of filming.
I'm also constantly aware that people at home will think, "Why are you being nice to that guy, given what he did?" Then, if that's what I am thinking, it must be, you know, in a way, isn't that something you have to deal with as well? I think all people, or everybody I try to find something likeable, and, in fact, these guys, a lot of 'em have a lot of likeable things.
I think that part of them that is unlikeable is something they didn't choose.
No-one woke up and said, "I'm gonna be" No-one grew up and at age five said, "I'm gonna be a paedophile.
"I'm gonna grow up and be a rapist.
" No-one chooses it.
This is a back area that contains vocational education, a music centre, and there's a specific area that we call, um the Golden Gate Centre, which is an area that's reserved for individuals that are involved in the programme here.
- And this is the Golden Gate Centre.
- OK.
Hi.
Here's our musician.
Me and this gentlemen share a common musical interest, so we have something to talk about.
- You play the guitar as well? - No, we are Grateful Dead fans.
- Really? - Yeah.
So we may have gone to concerts, to the same concert 20 years ago, it turns out.
How about that! And what are you in for? What are you doing here? What am I doing here today? Well, no, what do you, why, how come you've been? You mean what's my incarceration reason for incarceration? - I'm a child molester.
- Really? It doesdifferent levels of sexual contact.
Some had no sexual contact whatsoever, some of it was just like talking dirty, and those sorts of things, but it was nonetheless a violation of their their space, their soul, their sexuality.
How does it feel talking about it now? Oh, it's embarrassing.
Uncomfortable.
Nothing I'm proud of, that's for damn sure.
ButI did it.
Do you feel at this point you've got it under control? That you're no longer a risk to the public? I believe so, I believe I could be released, but, er With the understanding that I would continue in therapy out there.
That's something that I would not want to do without that kind of support.
What's likely to happen here? Will he get released any time soon? I believe that he will, um successfully reintegrate into society, actually.
That's my opinion of him.
He presents as committed to abstinence, I've no reason to doubt that.
He presents as committed to? - Abstinence from abusive behaviour.
- Right.
You say he presents as committed, you mean? Well, that's my little way of saying that's what he says! I feel a little I don't wanna offend ya, you know.
But that's what he says, and I have no reason to doubt that, there's no data to say that he's lying to me.
So I do believe he will be returned to the community.
There are five phases of treatment at Coalinga.
Patients are judged on their progress in therapy through regular tests.
These are either polygraphs - lie detector tests - or a form of sexual test called the PPG.
This is Abel Vierra.
In here, he's our PPG technician.
How do you? Louis.
- Nice to meet you.
- Nice to meet you.
He's responsible for administering the PPG, and the results, I help him interpret and write up.
What does PPG stand for? It stands for penile plethysmograph assessment.
It's a phallometric assessment.
Basically, it is literally measuring the penis size Correct.
in terms of how aroused a man is? Correct.
Do you have an extra gauge? OK.
So this gauge, it's it's clean, it's brand-new.
It's very soft, and it's filled with mercury inside.
So the individual places this gauge on the shaft of the penis.
Feel it, you can feel it.
- Like that? - Yeah.
Then they're shown, a mix of normative stimuli to consenting adult, either males or females, or a combination, as well as deviant stimuli - rape scenes involving adult women, as well as audio scenes involving children, or still slides or videos involving sexually suggestive scenes with children.
Not actual not actual child porn, then? No, they're not nude.
So they're clad in bathing suits, and it's sexually suggestive, such as playing in a pool, playing with water, a hose, um - Fruit.
- Eating fruit.
- Eating fruit.
- Umthings like that.
Do they sit in here when the thing is going on? - No.
- Can we see that room? - You sit in here? - I sit in here.
- Where does this go? - So that's a clean chuck, and what happens is the individual is asked to sit in this chair.
They're also asked to slide the table over them, and put their hands on top of the table, because one classic way of being deceptive is to put the gauge on your fingers and just sit there.
It's one method of determining whether they're answering honestly to the PPG stimuli.
There's lots of reasons why an individual might be deceptive during this test, and so we have different types of ways to reduce any deceptive activities.
Though in theory Coalinga exists to rehabilitate and release sex offenders, in the last ten years, out of the hundreds of individuals detained, only 13 have ever been approved for release in this way.
I had the opportunity to meet one, Mr Lamb, while being given a tour by the hospital's head psychologist, Dr D'Orazio.
Some guys check out some supplies during the day, and they do artwork, and they work on projects back here.
And here we have Mr Lamb, who's working on his project.
Mr Lamb, this is the BBC, and we thought we would check in with you.
- Hi, how you doing? - Good, thank you.
- I'm Louisfrom the BBC.
- Great, great.
What are you working on? I'm just putting the finishing touches on a little craft Ferris wheel that I've just concluded working with, and it's a company that puts out paper products, and I'm trying to put them together as best I can with the limited resources, but it's been a challenge, and it really works.
When it's finished, it's a good sign that the thing has been done well.
Yeah.
Dr D'Orazio said you're waiting for housing? In the outside world? Yes, I've been ordered out by a judge for more than a year now, and I think just the wait for housing can be so intense sometimes, because they really have to search hard and long for a place that would be suitable.
The problem is that people in the community have expressed they don't they just don't want a sex offender living among them, is that it? That's the issue? It seems to be the problem is getting one placed - who wants them next door? However, we try to instil upon them that this programme has changed us, and we're capable of truly living among people again, and certainly a lot of doctors endorse that, and we can carry out with this type of assurance that it's not just us going out there, we're not selling ourselves, but the programme will help us sell ourselves.
Has the Conditional Release Agency given you an estimate of how many properties that they've looked at, or they've solicited for people to rent to you? They have given me an idea of somewhere close to 1,100 places that have been looked into.
So we have our fingers crossed.
More than a thousand? So far, no landlord has stuck with it.
There has been one decline from a judge where there was a family - a group home setting - that was within the 2,000 feet, and it was found out late in the decision.
The other one was that the landlord was threatened, actually verbally, and left rattlesnakes on his porch, so it was a physical threat, and the person just didn't want to hang in with that.
What was the nature of your offence? My offence was molestation, primarily male - underage male.
And there were approximately 40 to 50 victims, some of them in the teens, with a few convictions, actual convictions, as adult, and so it's harder, somewhat, than some of the other types of cases.
Molestations are certainly looked upon more horridly.
So I canI certainly empathise with the public's thoughts and concerns over that, and their fears.
Did hedid he say 50 victims? Yeah, he estimates about 50 victims, male victims, child molestation, so we're talking about a deeply entrenched Not that he was convicted of? No, he was not convicted of 50 victims, but he's come to admit and take accountability for 50 victims, and certainly was his sexual preference for a long time - we're talking about a well-ingrained pattern of fantasies and urges around the objects of boys, so he really has come a long way.
Quite interesting.
Quite interesting.
Do you think, how soon do you think he might actually find somewhere? We've been hoping for the last year that a housing opportunity would come up, and it's just very difficult.
Most people are OK with the return of sex offenders, in some form, to the community, but just not in THEIR backyard, or their community, or their development.
It's very, very hard to place sexual offenders.
Coalinga cost almost $400 million to build.
To keep each patient costs a further $200,000 a year, so it's surprising that the vast majority of men boycott therapy, viewing it as window dressing for a place whose real intention is to keep them confined indefinitely.
Most prefer to try their chances with legal appeals.
In fact, many more individuals have gone out this way than through the phased therapy programme.
- Who are we about to meet? - You're about to meet Mr Kitchens.
He is one of the 70% of the individuals who's declining to participate in the sex offence treatment programme.
OK.
That's him out there? - Yep.
- How you doing? Come on in, Mr Kitchens.
Hi, how do you do? I'm Louis.
- Nice to meet you.
You're Mr Kitchens? - Yes, I am.
We're gonna go through here, I think.
So you're not in the programme.
Is that because you feel you don't have a problem? No, um It That's hard to answer.
I'll, er I've committed my crimes.
I've never denied committing my crimes.
May I ask what those were? One was, er, aer friend of mine's child.
We had been staying in a motel, me and my wife, and, er, I was babysitting at the time, and I was under the influence at the time.
And, ersome touching was involved.
Er - How old? - Er, six and seven.
Was it two? I'm not sure if the child was six or seven.
Between six and seven years old.
And in 1990, yeah, '89, I was convicted of the same offence - lewd and lascivious acts with a child under the age of 14.
Have there been other cases that didn't come to trial? - No.
- You're saying you've only been aroused by children those two times? Those are the only two times when molesting a child has made you, or the idea of it has made youaroused? Has seemed gratifying to you? I guess so.
That doesn't seem it doesn't seem likely to me.
What happens, what's going on in me un-subconsciously or unconsciously, I couldn't tell you.
It's very possible that I have an attraction to children that I don't know about.
Don't you know who, and what, you're attracted to, in general, in your life? Well SIGHS You know Yeah, I do.
I do know what I'm attracted to now.
I know a lot more about myself now than I ever did than I did 20 years ago.
And are you saying that's children or not children? OK, let's be real clear.
I want this on record.
I am not, now, attracted to children.
I don't seek out the affections of children, nor do I want to have sex with children.
Is that clear? - Well - Is that clear? - Please answer the question.
- No.
- That's not clear? - No, because you had just said it was possible you had an attraction to children that you weren't aware of.
At one time.
You may have an attraction to children that you're not aware of.
Did you know that? She could have an attraction to children, she could because they're not aware of it.
I find it hard to believe that you could have an attraction that you're completely not aware of, because we go through life as sexual beings, knowing what things we find attractive, and what things we don't.
Well, I can't answer that.
- I'm feeling a lot of intensity, and - There is.
and the energy in this corner of the room, it's palpable, so I mean, let's check in, are you OK doing the? - Yeah, I'm all right.
- Take a couple of deep breaths.
I justwhen I answer when I answer a question clearly, er, it kinda irks me a little to have somebody tell me I didn't.
At this point, is Mr Kitchens? He's in the kind of catch-22, where you're just sort of warehousing him, really, since he won't enter the programme, and it's not likely that he'll get out.
Yeah.
That's true, we're warehousing him, as well as, you know, the other 70% of the individuals who aren't in the programme.
I began to experience daily life at Coalinga.
One of the striking things for the outsider is the surprisingly high level of comfort on offer.
I had to remind myself that the men have already served their time in prison, and if they weren't here, they would be living in the outside world.
Though they've all been diagnosed with psychological and sexual disorders, a majority feel that they are completely sane.
What brought you here, may I ask? All of us are here for sexual-nature crimes, right? Mine was in 1988, when I got convicted and accused and convicted and - I was 22 at that time.
- And what was it? It was a child molest charge, right? - Which I've been contesting ever since.
- You say you didn't do it? - I've been contesting it and - But did you? - No, I did not.
- You say you didn't do it? I know I didn't do it.
And so you don't feel you have a mental disorder? I feel that most of the people here do not have a mental disorder.
Whether they did, or didn't do their crime, I'm not one to judge.
It was a criminal act for most of these guys, you know what I mean? It wasn't a mental disorder act.
There'sthis is where the problem lies with the law.
When the time came for me to see treatment up close, one of the first sessions I attended turned out to be something I'd inadvertently triggered.
I guess we can start by talking about what were your thoughts about the issues we brought up in our last meeting? Well, the issues were were fair, considering, er When Louis actually saw the picture, it actually was kinda shocking, er, of his perception.
Cos even I didn't perceive it like that.
And then afterwards, I actually took the picture down and put myself in Louis' picture, and he's a guest here at the hospital, he knows my offending history, and he saw something that looked potentially adolescent.
And that's against my nature.
It was kinda shocking to me of his perception, and that's what bothered me the most.
There's two things.
One is the tightness of the tights, and the youthful look in his face, hishis face is actually very, very boyish, but that's my perception.
I would have to agree with Louis on that, and I think, um, if this were just hanging in an art museum, they're right.
But Mr Rigby, you're someone who has a history of sex offences.
This person could be 18, could be 15, could be 24.
And I think also the defensiveness and the measure that you went to to contact youryour sources, if you will.
Might I say to the camera that you contacted the, er? New York City Ballet.
He contacted the New York City Ballet for validation about the actual age of this particular person.
But it's a painting, not a photo.
It's a painting for Mr Balanchine on his retirement.
- The choreographer? - Correct.
Apparently, that's Peter Martin, who became one of the great - It's a real person? - Yes.
Every one of them represents a person in Mr Balanchine's life.
So it's fascinating.
And I did that, you're right, to be defensive and to almost validate myself.
And I realised I didn't really have to go to that step, it kinda made me feel, well, thank heavens, I wasn't looking at an adolescent.
But it doesn't change your perspective, it doesn't change the identity I wish to convey to you and anyone else who knows I was a sex offender, and they don't want me looking at adolescents.
A little later, and to illustrate the importance of patient honesty, Dr D'Orazio had arranged to debrief an individual about his test results.
- Hi, Mr Price, how are you doing? - Hello.
You remember us? Good to see you again.
Mr Price is also a paedophile in treatment, and though he'd been making good progress, Dr D'Orazio had told me there'd been a recent setback.
There was an issue about your polygraph, is that right? What was the issue, can you explain? The issue was that I was gonna lie, and I didn't wanna do that, so I left.
How were you going to lie? I had some things I was covering up at the time, that I didn't want known, and I felt I had reasons for that.
Then I realised the reasons were not as important as I thought.
You were going to try and cheat the test, is that right? - How were you gonna? - Partially, but I knew I couldn't.
I was gonna I had put antiperspirant on my hands, so that part of the test would be invalid.
- What were you trying to hide? - Some victims I had were relatives.
Some were more serious than I'd said they were, and I was afraid of prosecution if I gave out enough information - about them.
- Undiscovered crimes? Yeah, they were all undiscovered.
What compelled you to make the decision to be deceptive in the programme? Self-protection.
Yeah.
I felt, um completely, umexposed.
I had no orientation, I had no idea what they were gonna do.
I don't even know what they were gonna ask.
I could have the polygraph next month, I still haven't had an orientation, I've been asking for an orientation.
Nobody said there's orientations.
Let me just point out what you're doing right now.
I'm trying to offer you some constructive feedback, and your defences are getting up and you're starting to finger point.
I haven't even started to finger point, so don't go there.
I think we'd better leave it alone.
Let my clinicians deal with it.
This is not my clinician.
What can make you maybe feel better with interacting with myself and the BBC in this piece right now? I don't understand why I'm interacting with you at all, I don't understand why you're here.
Maybe somebody could tell me.
- Why Dr D'Orazio is here? - Mm-hm.
It's an interview with me and the BBC, you know.
If you wanna be there for background, I guess that makes sense, but why are you asking me questions at all? So you'd feel more comfortable if no provider was here, that you could have your time with the BBC on your own? - At this point, yes.
- Why is that? But it's mainly you that I don't want here right now, because of the attitude I'm hearing.
Well, what happens now? Well, I'm not sure.
I'm kind of at a loss of how Mr Price came to this place right now, and I'm not sure what's going on.
Maybe we'll draw a line under this for now, - if that's OK with both of you? - That's a good idea.
- Thank you very much.
- Thank you.
Thanks, Mr Price.
I found that quite odd.
How was that for you? I felt maybe that would be upsetting for youa little bit? I thinkI feel a little bit of disappointment about Mr Price's decisions.
I think that Butit felt like that was a kind of personal thing? I get a lot of that, it's one of the job hazards of being a clinician in this work.
If you go to the places where you believe that the patient needs to go to in their treatment, there's resistance cos they're very uncomfortable places within the person.
He became very, almost abusive and aggressive.
That's a very small microcosm of how he might be in the community, if he's faced with similar situations and similar stressors.
You know, he might have people like me, in various degrees in his life, and if that gets him unsettled, then he may act out towards that person, or it could be children.
One evening, I stayed late at the hospital, to attend one of their regular social events.
- What's the occasion today? - Halloween party.
Every month we have activities.
We have, like, Oktoberfest, karaoke night next month, and then December, we'll have a Christmas party.
Every month something's happening and every month we have birthday parties.
We give out cake, ice cream and gifts.
- Were you were in prison before this? - Yeah.
Is this something you do at prison? No, you don't get nothing like this in prison.
How do you like it in here? I don't like it here at all.
- I don't like being locked up! - Compared with prison? - I don't, honestly.
- You think it's worse than prison? - I like prison.
- Why? Cos you know where you stand, you know the ground you're on, the responsibilities, the respect you've got coming honestly, not dishonestly.
- And there was a - And there's a code, you know what's going on.
You're doing life just in case you do commit another crime.
That's not justice.
If that's the case, lock everybody up in society because tomorrow I might get in a car and run somebody over.
You're in here because there must be some sexual offence in your? - I had a date rape.
- A date rape? You guys wanna try some? Tell me if it tastes good! - Thank you.
- See if that's strong enough.
That tastes quite good.
I'd made another appointment with Mr Lamb.
Our first conversation had made an impression on me, and I wanted to know more about how he felt he'd changed.
Is there still for you a degree of attraction to small children? At this point there isn't, and I can safely and feel good about that accomplishment by saying that, and part of the reason is I chose to have personally chose to have a castration.
Very few people have gone that route, but it's relieved a great deal of the invasiveness of my deviancy, and allowed me to think and get into my soul, and my head, as to what I really did, and the hurt.
We're not talking about a chemical castration, it's a physical operation? It was physical.
I started with a chemical to seek that kind of relief, if that was possible, and when I started taking those shots, I said, "You know, I need this.
" And I chose the physical to make it permanent.
What no-one can really understand is why you would think at any time it would have been OK for you to molest a child, especially one as young as seven years old How could you have thought that that was something that it was OK to do? We do talk about this in our therapy groups.
"How can you do this?" and so forth.
We've answered that on and on again, with things like We're in an obsessive moment, things have gone wrong in life, and we've had early sexualisation, we've mid-molested ourselves, we've had lots of sexual encounters in early youth, and it's just something that seems to be necessary to pursue when things go wrong again.
In that mode, at that time, did it seem as though, um it was OK with the children, that the children would want it? Did it seem to you that was something they were seeking out? No.
I changed their normal life to make mine something, for that moment, some fun.
That is hard, and I can see that now, it's hindsight.
And in that moment, I'm nothing, I'm someone else.
I'm doing what I want, regardless of who is hurt.
That's why we've come to a place in the full line of treatment to see that and to really work with that, as you know, we can't go there again.
There is just tremendous pain.
What would you say to people who saw you now and said, "He's saying the right things now, how do we know he's changed? "Why should we be willing to take that risk "of allowing him back into the community?" Coming from the source, there may not be much credibility, but I can only say that in the last few years of the improved therapy and the responses from doctors and the work that I've done, the phrase that fits is "actions speak louder than words".
I can tell you anything, but if my actions show otherwise, then I'm not credible.
So I have to act well to be well, and then to be talked of in a better light.
It's gonna have to be proof in the pudding.
Little Star By now, I'd been in the hospital for several days.
More than ever, I was struck by the strangeness of the pleasant surroundings, and the fact that many, if not most, of these men would be living this way for the rest of their lives.
You're renting out DVDs? Yeah, for the Point Exchange Programme, we rent out DVDs and CDs Which ones have you got there? What have you got there? We've got all sorts Left Behind II, Nativity Story, Seven Years In Tibet Catch Me If You Can I was also becoming aware of a growing disgruntlement over the focus of the documentary.
Numerous individuals had approached me complaining I was spending too much time with the small minority involved in treatment.
How would you feel about spending the rest of your life in this hospital? Well, I don't like it, but I really have no choice.
This is the most corrupt programme, OK, that I've ever seen in my life, OK? The Phased Programme is nothing more than a sham that's here to hold us indefinitely.
This is nothing but a warehouse.
Look at the big money they get, they get $200,000 a year for keeping us in here, OK? Nobody wants us on the streets.
Among those who came up to me was a man who'd exhausted his legal appeals, and whose unwillingness to embrace treatment now meant that he would die at Coalinga.
His name was Mr Yahn.
How do you do? Louis.
Nice to meet you.
George is my middle name.
- That's generally what I go by.
- OK, George.
- Are you in the Phased Programme? - No, I am not.
For what reason? As many times as I have been asked that question, there's probably as many answers that are different, but the most important thing is there is nobody that can tell what's going on inside my head, period.
- Nobody knows.
- What about you? I do.
And I can tell you, I can tell anybody, I can tell your audience that I'm not a threat to anybody, other than I'm NOT a threat.
So you feel like, at this point, you're you don't need any kind of treatment? I haven't done anything to any of these people so far, and there's little tiny All due respect, there's individuals here that look like little kids that would probably be great targets, but it's like, "Why?" - In here? - Absolutely.
There's an RT running around here, looks like she's 12 years old.
- What's an RT? - Oh, rehabilitation therapist.
You know, you sit and look at her and sometimes I think she's a plant just to see if somebody would go off.
And it justin passing thought, I used to sit and think that, but she's just a person.
Can you see, though, that because your crimes were so serious that, um that the community at large in the state, as an institution, might feel that you need some treatment? Would you go into treatment if you had a headache? I'm curious, would you? I'm not trying to trap you.
At any point, was there any time where I actually physically raped a kid? Did you see anything like that? No, you did not.
My big thing was masturbation.
Big thing.
That was my big thing.
I mean, in a sense, the sex acts that you performed or were involved with, with children, would constitute a form of rape, wouldn't they? Because, I mean, wasn't there a nine-year-old girl who performed a sex act upon you? Sheshe gave me, she used her hand, and yes, she did.
In the notes it said, "oral copulation.
" That was my In the 1979 one? That's what I'm looking for? - Yes, '79.
- That is true.
And did you, you got your son to masturbate you? Yes.
No.
No, I didn't.
He was in the same room while I was masturbating.
Did I encourage them to do the same? Yes, I did.
And you masturbated him as well? - No.
- In the notes, it did say I know, I know that.
Given that you did these terrible things and you found them arousing, that implies that that's part of your make-up, to find those kinds of acts arousing.
At the time, that is correct.
At the time.
But you're asking me to believe that's stopped being your orientation? - Sure.
- How? How would you say that ended? For the simple fact that, when I said My kids were like this tall and here I am treating 'em like crap, OK? Now they're this big, and they're not only this big, but, all of a sudden, they've got this mind, and all of a sudden they're not just a kid, they're actually people.
And I never thought for a second that these little kids were actually people.
They are little people.
They have feelings, they have desires, they have wants, they need to be loved.
Is there anything that could induce you to enter into the Phased Programme? Promise me that I go home.
Promise me that they will show that anybody that goes through that Phased Programme will never, ever do anything again.
I was close to the end of my time at Coalinga.
One of the things that had struck me, given the awfulness of their crimes, was how relatively normal the people in the Phased Programme could come across, but I was also aware that having a plausible manner was one of the qualities that had enabled them to groom their victims, and I was keen not to be taken in.
I went back to see Mr Rigby.
He'd just had the results of his latest clinical tests.
I'd had the impression during our time together that he'd been honest with me.
I wondered whether I could trust my instincts.
- What happened? - Well, there were two polygraphs, the sexual history and the thoughts and fantasies.
And to pass the polygraph here, you actually have to get 100%.
You have to pass every question.
And it's important because it proves my state of abstinence, that I'm dedicated, that I don't, er look at pictures or movies and think deviant arousals or still think of kids as sexual objects.
At this point, could you say that Mr Rigby iscured? - Would you say you're cured? - No.
- I'll let him answer that.
- No.
I would say at this point, frankly, I am going to recommend his permanent facilitator refers him for staffing, which means that he will go to a panel, led by the medical director, that will determine his suitability for treatment in the community.
And I do believe that he is treatable in the community at this time.
One of the things that's been weird and difficult for me as a journalist, is balancing the idea of the treatment that exists here with the very real and understandable grievance that people feel here, that this is not a just or legitimate institution.
So how does that all balance up in your mind, Ernie? If I was in Alan's shoes, and I made a deal with a Government that said, "If you sign on this piece of paper, "we will put you in the penitentiary for ten years "and then you'll have parole, if you do right," and I did that, and then at the end of it the Government comes back and says, "We're changing the deal," I'd be outraged, and I would feel like my Constitutional rights were violated.
In our society, there's a lot of people that wanna You know, sexual offending is a loaded thing, to me too.
I mean, if I think about I think your behaviour was awful, and you already know that.
I'm not saying, you know - Have we had this discussion ever? - Certainly.
And I'm pretty skilled at separating that from judging this human being.
Not everybody in our society is.
Is that why this facility exists, do you think? Because of people's inability to separate, because of that sense of outrage? I honestly believe - and this is my opinion - that there's probably a significant component of that.
A little later, I was on my way to see Mr Price.
Since his heated exchange with Dr D'Orazio, over his polygraph results, he'd evidently had some second thoughts.
And he'd got word to me that he wanted to make amends.
We had an interesting conversation yesterday.
It seemed like you got a little annoyed with Dr D'Orazio.
- How're you feeling today? - I'm better.
Some residual feelings, but I also, you know, have taken stock of what was going on, what I was doing and realised how unacceptable it was, inappropriate.
And basically, what you got on film is a patient having emotional dysfunction, you know, just basically, just not regulating his emotions very well.
Will the incident yesterday have set Mr Price back in his treatment in any way, or in the Phased Programme? Be taken into account in some way? Well, I think that the team will That decision is not mine to make.
I think that, ultimately, that incident will serve as a great springboard for Mr Price to grow, and that will be the elements of great change for him.
However, if you do that stuff with other people, there's not gonna be all this processing and understanding, there's gonna be, "OK, you're outta here, buddy.
" Or even worse, a formal complaint, that kind of stuff.
The way he interacted yesterday could have led to a formal complaint in a different context? Sure.
Absolutely.
It was verbal assault.
It's actually probably a penal code violation of some sort, and I think a jury, you know, with the testimony that would come forward, would probablyconvict me of that.
Mr Price didn't raise his voice, as far as I remember, and he wasn't directly abusive, was he? I mean, what was he worst thing that he did? You're right, he didn't raise his voice and he didn't act out aggressively, physically in any way.
I think there was some purposefully intentional demeaning statements and some belittling statements, and some He made some statements to suggest that I wasn't being sincere in what I was offering.
When you tell someone that you don't believe what they're saying is sincere, you're basically cutting them off as a credible source.
So you're eliminating me from the conversation and the room, and that to me is a form of abuse.
I just wanna clarify for you, in case you have any concern in your mind, or any worry about this.
I am OK with myself and I don't feel I don't feel upset about the situation that occurred.
If anything, it's given me more empathy towards you and more awareness, and I do not allow myself to be victimised by you in that sense, so I will not be carrying that with me.
So know that I'm OK with it.
I had one last appointment with Mr Lamb.
I'd heard he had a new housing option in his sights.
I realised I'd started to feel he might be a changed person, but since our last meeting, I'd also had an opportunity to see his file for the first time, and I'd been shocked by the details of the abuse.
I'd begun to worry I hadn't questioned him closely enough to be sure he was being honest with me.
Well, I just got off the phone, as I said with, um a friend that's out there, that's on liberty, and he's allowed to call me.
His news was that he'd just got off the phone with his co-ordinator and mentioned to call me and say that there is some property, and they would establish a little trailer on that property and it's a little bit rural, so it's not right in the midst of the community, you know, which is a good thing for all parties concerned, I think.
Good to hear news like that.
Mim, you're Mr Lamb's clinician, his chief, what is it, chief clinician, or? - His primary phase provider.
- Is that's what it's called? Are you familiar with the details of the offences he committed? - Yes.
- I have to level about one thing, for me, as a journalist, the one challenge that I'm presented with with Mr Lamb, is that because he seems so upset about what he's done, it makes it difficult for me to pry into the details of his crimes.
I've sensed a little resistance to that, would that be fair to say? Sure.
There's a great deal of shame and grief when I've made it real for me.
But I'm not ashamed as much to tell people what I did, it's just, it doesn't seem to I mean, I can't see what telling every small detail and every victim and what awful things that were done to them, matter, or can help any journalism, or anybody other than a clinician.
I'm coming from a non-clinical perspective and I think there's viewers who would feel, not that every detail needs to be gone into, but there's also a sense that because the crimes are so serious, that people would feel they kind of need you to own up to what you did um, to some extent.
I'm not too sure how much more that I could actually own up to them.
Going through 11 years of treatment, after six years of prison, just to cover where I'm feeling about this.
What would you, as a representative of the community, feel Mr Lamb would need to do to "own up", to use your words, to own up to what he's done? I think it's by saying, "Here's the transparency, "and here's where I am now.
" If it's important to you to know the details of the crime, I'd be thrilled, truly, to tell you, but the important thing is that is my past.
I want that absolutely understood.
Most of the crimes were as a teenager, about 35 of them before I was 18.
I was just running willy-nilly in the neighbourhood, trying to befriend younger boys, under ten, generally.
If I could convince them to be orally copulated, that was my fetish, if you will.
The 15 that were as an adult, it was fondling and oral copulating, if it could get to that point.
That is justit's awful, it's awful to me now, but those are the things I did, the contact, sitting them on my lap, playing computer games, trying tohug, it's just constant contact obsession.
I sensed a certain amount of irritation from you, when we started talking about some of the crimes, and I just wondered, when he goes out into the community, he may face a large amount of publicity and journalists door-stepping him, I think would be a possibility.
TV crews turning up on his doorstep, I think might be a possibility.
If he finds that really annoying, that may be an issue for him.
You know, it's less annoying, than it is hurtful.
And perhaps the public would think, well, I need to be hurt over and over again, I can find ways to, to bring up stuff and make me feel bad about this for the rest of my life, but I do need to get over it too, and the treatment has let me do that.
In fact, the judge asked me, when he ordered the release um He said "Is this just a bunch of" What was it? Oh, "clinical buzz words you're telling me?" I said, "No, it's just a new way of life.
" My time at Coalinga was done.
I left impressed by the sincerity of some of the individuals and their commitment to change and baffled by the continuing self-delusion of others.
There were one or two I'd come to believe were reformed men but the awkward truth about Coalinga is that, despite the best intentions of the psychologists and social workers, most of the people here, even those in treatment, will never get out.
And so the main function of this hospital has become less about treating sex offenders than containing them.
Here, most of them will live, in comfort and confinement, until the end of their days.
If I say that I am, it suggests I still have the interest, and I still am practising that.
If I say ex-paedophile, then, of course, that means it's somebody who has done it at one time, had that interest, and no longer does.
That's what I classify myself as.
With everything in society telling you that this is abhorrent behaviour, did that not affect your thinking at all? You must have known that was a huge I knew it was looked down upon.
As far as the legal aspect, I didn't know what the law specifically said.
Do you understand there's people out there, people who would watch this programme, and hear that you had molested a six-year-old, a seven-year-old, and there's a large number of people who'd want to kill you for that? Yes, I believe there are.
I don't wanna judge those people, but one wrong, or two wrongs don't make a right.
This is Coalinga, a mental hospital in California, built to contain and treat the state's most serious sex offenders.
What was your original conviction for? I was committed for lewd and lascivious acts on two minor children, females, ages 10 and 12.
These men all served prison time for child molestation and rape.
But since completing their sentences, instead of being released, they've been diagnosed with sexual disorders, and sent here against their will.
OK, let's be real clear, I want this on record.
I am not, now, attracted to children.
I don't seek out the affections of children, nor do I want to have sex with children.
Is that clear? Coalinga has been hailed by some as the best solution to the problem of paedophilia.
It has also been accused of being a kind of prison in disguise.
For the first time, it had opened its doors to a documentary crew.
Around 800 patients are confined at Coalinga.
Hospital policy is to refer to them as "individuals'; and address them by their surnames.
One of the individuals in treatment is Mr Rigby.
A former high school sports coach, he served ten years in prison for abusing some of his students.
Instead of being released, he was committed to hospital.
He'd let me see his file, and agreed to talk openly about his crimes in the company of one of his therapists.
- Louis.
- How you doing, Mr Rigby? - Fine, sir, thank you.
- Joe, are you Mr Rigby's social worker? - Yes.
- So you have a pretty close relationship? - Do you work closely together? - We work fairly close, yeah, I see him every month at his team, and we have groups together.
How long have you been working together, you two? Well, I've known Joe forwhat? Almost a year and a half now, since being at Coalinga.
How do you feel it's been going with Mr Rigby? Excellent.
He's doing quite well, he does everything that's asked of him.
And, er He'she's just You can't have a better client - any challenge, he is up to face it.
This is your room, Mr Rigby? This is our dorm, there are four men that share the dorm.
This is my room area here.
- This is your area? - Yes.
So you've got some pictures of classical statues there? - Oh, yes.
- And that is? Explain? - Pardon me? - What is that all about? Only my appreciation for art and culture.
There seems to be an interest in the male physical form there.
Yes.
Yes.
I'm an open gay homosexual man here.
I don't flaunt it, but I admire the male figure, so It's kind of something I identify with.
While other roommates might have pictures of surfing girls, we have an artist in the room, so we each kinda have our own unique, umtaste.
This seems a little risqué.
That's quite close to the to the prohibited? Oh, I think it's a little bit of my love for ballet, and I suppose it has a male eroticism to it.
With a youngish man, you know, could be 16, could be 18, could be Well, I suppose that has potential, yes.
I don't look at 'em - Say again? - I don't look at 'em as teenagers.
I look at 'em as, basically, ballet performers - they all look pretty mature to me.
Is it, OK, Joe, to have imagery that has a slightly erotic overtone that's in the area of what the offences were? Um Well, I've looked I've never seen that picture before, but they look like adults to me, aren't they? So, what was the question again? I'm sorry.
- Is that OK? - Is that OK? Yeah, as long as they're of age, that's OK.
One of the things I was reading in your file was that you'd started something, or there had been something called The Togas? - Right.
- A club which that you kind of organised, or ran, in which well, maybe you should say what it is.
Well, the club was the basis of an athletic club.
The problem with it - it ended up with a sexual initiation, which I encouraged which I certainly found arousing, and definitely was a way of sexualising boys through that initiation.
And these were boys aged? Those boys were aged, primarily, 11 and 12 years of age.
11 to 12? And what was the initiation? It was sticking their penis in a tube and it was a method of of getting through their boundaries of modesty.
That allowed you to? To sexualise them, to allow myself to receive gratification.
And you encouraged them to orally copulate each other? No, they didn't do that.
No.
That's in the that is in the clinical records.
That wasn't with The Togas - there were two other boys that were that I encouraged to do that.
Given that this was part of your thinking at one time, how will you - if and when you get out - how will you guard against that creeping back into your thinking? By guarding my environment.
By understanding againour high risk, and my number-one high risk is being around children, and I can respect that.
I don't probably expect society to accept me in the long run, but I'd like to show 'em I can be a better citizen.
- How are you? - How you doing? - How you doing? - Good, good.
Much of the treatment at Coalinga takes place in group sessions.
Like I said, one of the signs of sexual preoccupation is total sexual outlet of seven or more orgasms a week, for an extended period of time, found in one study.
So these are examples of too much the interest, the overall Individuals are encouraged to open up about their crimes and their ongoing thoughts and fantasies, in an attempt to recognise and repress any deviant urges.
For one thing, I'm reducing the sexual content of any materials that I produce.
I'm also masturbating less, and I'm working on trying to extend that period, um to be longer between masturbations.
One of the facilitators of these groups is Ernie Marshall.
You're a social worker here, and, um can you tell me, I mean, you get to know the guys that are under your care pretty well, would you say? That's your job in a way.
Yes.
I do.
The people that are I read their records, and I read their charts - I happen to be a hands-on type guy.
Do you have to like them? You don't have to.
Cos in a way, we're talking about a class of people that most people would regard as, you know, the least likeable of anyone in the world.
I don't define people by something they've done, so one part of all these guys here is their prior behaviour, their sexual behaviour, but there's a whole piece of a human being that's not that.
It's something I'm grappling with too, cos someone who's I'm attempting to form a kind of relationship for the sake of filming.
I'm also constantly aware that people at home will think, "Why are you being nice to that guy, given what he did?" Then, if that's what I am thinking, it must be, you know, in a way, isn't that something you have to deal with as well? I think all people, or everybody I try to find something likeable, and, in fact, these guys, a lot of 'em have a lot of likeable things.
I think that part of them that is unlikeable is something they didn't choose.
No-one woke up and said, "I'm gonna be" No-one grew up and at age five said, "I'm gonna be a paedophile.
"I'm gonna grow up and be a rapist.
" No-one chooses it.
This is a back area that contains vocational education, a music centre, and there's a specific area that we call, um the Golden Gate Centre, which is an area that's reserved for individuals that are involved in the programme here.
- And this is the Golden Gate Centre.
- OK.
Hi.
Here's our musician.
Me and this gentlemen share a common musical interest, so we have something to talk about.
- You play the guitar as well? - No, we are Grateful Dead fans.
- Really? - Yeah.
So we may have gone to concerts, to the same concert 20 years ago, it turns out.
How about that! And what are you in for? What are you doing here? What am I doing here today? Well, no, what do you, why, how come you've been? You mean what's my incarceration reason for incarceration? - I'm a child molester.
- Really? It doesdifferent levels of sexual contact.
Some had no sexual contact whatsoever, some of it was just like talking dirty, and those sorts of things, but it was nonetheless a violation of their their space, their soul, their sexuality.
How does it feel talking about it now? Oh, it's embarrassing.
Uncomfortable.
Nothing I'm proud of, that's for damn sure.
ButI did it.
Do you feel at this point you've got it under control? That you're no longer a risk to the public? I believe so, I believe I could be released, but, er With the understanding that I would continue in therapy out there.
That's something that I would not want to do without that kind of support.
What's likely to happen here? Will he get released any time soon? I believe that he will, um successfully reintegrate into society, actually.
That's my opinion of him.
He presents as committed to abstinence, I've no reason to doubt that.
He presents as committed to? - Abstinence from abusive behaviour.
- Right.
You say he presents as committed, you mean? Well, that's my little way of saying that's what he says! I feel a little I don't wanna offend ya, you know.
But that's what he says, and I have no reason to doubt that, there's no data to say that he's lying to me.
So I do believe he will be returned to the community.
There are five phases of treatment at Coalinga.
Patients are judged on their progress in therapy through regular tests.
These are either polygraphs - lie detector tests - or a form of sexual test called the PPG.
This is Abel Vierra.
In here, he's our PPG technician.
How do you? Louis.
- Nice to meet you.
- Nice to meet you.
He's responsible for administering the PPG, and the results, I help him interpret and write up.
What does PPG stand for? It stands for penile plethysmograph assessment.
It's a phallometric assessment.
Basically, it is literally measuring the penis size Correct.
in terms of how aroused a man is? Correct.
Do you have an extra gauge? OK.
So this gauge, it's it's clean, it's brand-new.
It's very soft, and it's filled with mercury inside.
So the individual places this gauge on the shaft of the penis.
Feel it, you can feel it.
- Like that? - Yeah.
Then they're shown, a mix of normative stimuli to consenting adult, either males or females, or a combination, as well as deviant stimuli - rape scenes involving adult women, as well as audio scenes involving children, or still slides or videos involving sexually suggestive scenes with children.
Not actual not actual child porn, then? No, they're not nude.
So they're clad in bathing suits, and it's sexually suggestive, such as playing in a pool, playing with water, a hose, um - Fruit.
- Eating fruit.
- Eating fruit.
- Umthings like that.
Do they sit in here when the thing is going on? - No.
- Can we see that room? - You sit in here? - I sit in here.
- Where does this go? - So that's a clean chuck, and what happens is the individual is asked to sit in this chair.
They're also asked to slide the table over them, and put their hands on top of the table, because one classic way of being deceptive is to put the gauge on your fingers and just sit there.
It's one method of determining whether they're answering honestly to the PPG stimuli.
There's lots of reasons why an individual might be deceptive during this test, and so we have different types of ways to reduce any deceptive activities.
Though in theory Coalinga exists to rehabilitate and release sex offenders, in the last ten years, out of the hundreds of individuals detained, only 13 have ever been approved for release in this way.
I had the opportunity to meet one, Mr Lamb, while being given a tour by the hospital's head psychologist, Dr D'Orazio.
Some guys check out some supplies during the day, and they do artwork, and they work on projects back here.
And here we have Mr Lamb, who's working on his project.
Mr Lamb, this is the BBC, and we thought we would check in with you.
- Hi, how you doing? - Good, thank you.
- I'm Louisfrom the BBC.
- Great, great.
What are you working on? I'm just putting the finishing touches on a little craft Ferris wheel that I've just concluded working with, and it's a company that puts out paper products, and I'm trying to put them together as best I can with the limited resources, but it's been a challenge, and it really works.
When it's finished, it's a good sign that the thing has been done well.
Yeah.
Dr D'Orazio said you're waiting for housing? In the outside world? Yes, I've been ordered out by a judge for more than a year now, and I think just the wait for housing can be so intense sometimes, because they really have to search hard and long for a place that would be suitable.
The problem is that people in the community have expressed they don't they just don't want a sex offender living among them, is that it? That's the issue? It seems to be the problem is getting one placed - who wants them next door? However, we try to instil upon them that this programme has changed us, and we're capable of truly living among people again, and certainly a lot of doctors endorse that, and we can carry out with this type of assurance that it's not just us going out there, we're not selling ourselves, but the programme will help us sell ourselves.
Has the Conditional Release Agency given you an estimate of how many properties that they've looked at, or they've solicited for people to rent to you? They have given me an idea of somewhere close to 1,100 places that have been looked into.
So we have our fingers crossed.
More than a thousand? So far, no landlord has stuck with it.
There has been one decline from a judge where there was a family - a group home setting - that was within the 2,000 feet, and it was found out late in the decision.
The other one was that the landlord was threatened, actually verbally, and left rattlesnakes on his porch, so it was a physical threat, and the person just didn't want to hang in with that.
What was the nature of your offence? My offence was molestation, primarily male - underage male.
And there were approximately 40 to 50 victims, some of them in the teens, with a few convictions, actual convictions, as adult, and so it's harder, somewhat, than some of the other types of cases.
Molestations are certainly looked upon more horridly.
So I canI certainly empathise with the public's thoughts and concerns over that, and their fears.
Did hedid he say 50 victims? Yeah, he estimates about 50 victims, male victims, child molestation, so we're talking about a deeply entrenched Not that he was convicted of? No, he was not convicted of 50 victims, but he's come to admit and take accountability for 50 victims, and certainly was his sexual preference for a long time - we're talking about a well-ingrained pattern of fantasies and urges around the objects of boys, so he really has come a long way.
Quite interesting.
Quite interesting.
Do you think, how soon do you think he might actually find somewhere? We've been hoping for the last year that a housing opportunity would come up, and it's just very difficult.
Most people are OK with the return of sex offenders, in some form, to the community, but just not in THEIR backyard, or their community, or their development.
It's very, very hard to place sexual offenders.
Coalinga cost almost $400 million to build.
To keep each patient costs a further $200,000 a year, so it's surprising that the vast majority of men boycott therapy, viewing it as window dressing for a place whose real intention is to keep them confined indefinitely.
Most prefer to try their chances with legal appeals.
In fact, many more individuals have gone out this way than through the phased therapy programme.
- Who are we about to meet? - You're about to meet Mr Kitchens.
He is one of the 70% of the individuals who's declining to participate in the sex offence treatment programme.
OK.
That's him out there? - Yep.
- How you doing? Come on in, Mr Kitchens.
Hi, how do you do? I'm Louis.
- Nice to meet you.
You're Mr Kitchens? - Yes, I am.
We're gonna go through here, I think.
So you're not in the programme.
Is that because you feel you don't have a problem? No, um It That's hard to answer.
I'll, er I've committed my crimes.
I've never denied committing my crimes.
May I ask what those were? One was, er, aer friend of mine's child.
We had been staying in a motel, me and my wife, and, er, I was babysitting at the time, and I was under the influence at the time.
And, ersome touching was involved.
Er - How old? - Er, six and seven.
Was it two? I'm not sure if the child was six or seven.
Between six and seven years old.
And in 1990, yeah, '89, I was convicted of the same offence - lewd and lascivious acts with a child under the age of 14.
Have there been other cases that didn't come to trial? - No.
- You're saying you've only been aroused by children those two times? Those are the only two times when molesting a child has made you, or the idea of it has made youaroused? Has seemed gratifying to you? I guess so.
That doesn't seem it doesn't seem likely to me.
What happens, what's going on in me un-subconsciously or unconsciously, I couldn't tell you.
It's very possible that I have an attraction to children that I don't know about.
Don't you know who, and what, you're attracted to, in general, in your life? Well SIGHS You know Yeah, I do.
I do know what I'm attracted to now.
I know a lot more about myself now than I ever did than I did 20 years ago.
And are you saying that's children or not children? OK, let's be real clear.
I want this on record.
I am not, now, attracted to children.
I don't seek out the affections of children, nor do I want to have sex with children.
Is that clear? - Well - Is that clear? - Please answer the question.
- No.
- That's not clear? - No, because you had just said it was possible you had an attraction to children that you weren't aware of.
At one time.
You may have an attraction to children that you're not aware of.
Did you know that? She could have an attraction to children, she could because they're not aware of it.
I find it hard to believe that you could have an attraction that you're completely not aware of, because we go through life as sexual beings, knowing what things we find attractive, and what things we don't.
Well, I can't answer that.
- I'm feeling a lot of intensity, and - There is.
and the energy in this corner of the room, it's palpable, so I mean, let's check in, are you OK doing the? - Yeah, I'm all right.
- Take a couple of deep breaths.
I justwhen I answer when I answer a question clearly, er, it kinda irks me a little to have somebody tell me I didn't.
At this point, is Mr Kitchens? He's in the kind of catch-22, where you're just sort of warehousing him, really, since he won't enter the programme, and it's not likely that he'll get out.
Yeah.
That's true, we're warehousing him, as well as, you know, the other 70% of the individuals who aren't in the programme.
I began to experience daily life at Coalinga.
One of the striking things for the outsider is the surprisingly high level of comfort on offer.
I had to remind myself that the men have already served their time in prison, and if they weren't here, they would be living in the outside world.
Though they've all been diagnosed with psychological and sexual disorders, a majority feel that they are completely sane.
What brought you here, may I ask? All of us are here for sexual-nature crimes, right? Mine was in 1988, when I got convicted and accused and convicted and - I was 22 at that time.
- And what was it? It was a child molest charge, right? - Which I've been contesting ever since.
- You say you didn't do it? - I've been contesting it and - But did you? - No, I did not.
- You say you didn't do it? I know I didn't do it.
And so you don't feel you have a mental disorder? I feel that most of the people here do not have a mental disorder.
Whether they did, or didn't do their crime, I'm not one to judge.
It was a criminal act for most of these guys, you know what I mean? It wasn't a mental disorder act.
There'sthis is where the problem lies with the law.
When the time came for me to see treatment up close, one of the first sessions I attended turned out to be something I'd inadvertently triggered.
I guess we can start by talking about what were your thoughts about the issues we brought up in our last meeting? Well, the issues were were fair, considering, er When Louis actually saw the picture, it actually was kinda shocking, er, of his perception.
Cos even I didn't perceive it like that.
And then afterwards, I actually took the picture down and put myself in Louis' picture, and he's a guest here at the hospital, he knows my offending history, and he saw something that looked potentially adolescent.
And that's against my nature.
It was kinda shocking to me of his perception, and that's what bothered me the most.
There's two things.
One is the tightness of the tights, and the youthful look in his face, hishis face is actually very, very boyish, but that's my perception.
I would have to agree with Louis on that, and I think, um, if this were just hanging in an art museum, they're right.
But Mr Rigby, you're someone who has a history of sex offences.
This person could be 18, could be 15, could be 24.
And I think also the defensiveness and the measure that you went to to contact youryour sources, if you will.
Might I say to the camera that you contacted the, er? New York City Ballet.
He contacted the New York City Ballet for validation about the actual age of this particular person.
But it's a painting, not a photo.
It's a painting for Mr Balanchine on his retirement.
- The choreographer? - Correct.
Apparently, that's Peter Martin, who became one of the great - It's a real person? - Yes.
Every one of them represents a person in Mr Balanchine's life.
So it's fascinating.
And I did that, you're right, to be defensive and to almost validate myself.
And I realised I didn't really have to go to that step, it kinda made me feel, well, thank heavens, I wasn't looking at an adolescent.
But it doesn't change your perspective, it doesn't change the identity I wish to convey to you and anyone else who knows I was a sex offender, and they don't want me looking at adolescents.
A little later, and to illustrate the importance of patient honesty, Dr D'Orazio had arranged to debrief an individual about his test results.
- Hi, Mr Price, how are you doing? - Hello.
You remember us? Good to see you again.
Mr Price is also a paedophile in treatment, and though he'd been making good progress, Dr D'Orazio had told me there'd been a recent setback.
There was an issue about your polygraph, is that right? What was the issue, can you explain? The issue was that I was gonna lie, and I didn't wanna do that, so I left.
How were you going to lie? I had some things I was covering up at the time, that I didn't want known, and I felt I had reasons for that.
Then I realised the reasons were not as important as I thought.
You were going to try and cheat the test, is that right? - How were you gonna? - Partially, but I knew I couldn't.
I was gonna I had put antiperspirant on my hands, so that part of the test would be invalid.
- What were you trying to hide? - Some victims I had were relatives.
Some were more serious than I'd said they were, and I was afraid of prosecution if I gave out enough information - about them.
- Undiscovered crimes? Yeah, they were all undiscovered.
What compelled you to make the decision to be deceptive in the programme? Self-protection.
Yeah.
I felt, um completely, umexposed.
I had no orientation, I had no idea what they were gonna do.
I don't even know what they were gonna ask.
I could have the polygraph next month, I still haven't had an orientation, I've been asking for an orientation.
Nobody said there's orientations.
Let me just point out what you're doing right now.
I'm trying to offer you some constructive feedback, and your defences are getting up and you're starting to finger point.
I haven't even started to finger point, so don't go there.
I think we'd better leave it alone.
Let my clinicians deal with it.
This is not my clinician.
What can make you maybe feel better with interacting with myself and the BBC in this piece right now? I don't understand why I'm interacting with you at all, I don't understand why you're here.
Maybe somebody could tell me.
- Why Dr D'Orazio is here? - Mm-hm.
It's an interview with me and the BBC, you know.
If you wanna be there for background, I guess that makes sense, but why are you asking me questions at all? So you'd feel more comfortable if no provider was here, that you could have your time with the BBC on your own? - At this point, yes.
- Why is that? But it's mainly you that I don't want here right now, because of the attitude I'm hearing.
Well, what happens now? Well, I'm not sure.
I'm kind of at a loss of how Mr Price came to this place right now, and I'm not sure what's going on.
Maybe we'll draw a line under this for now, - if that's OK with both of you? - That's a good idea.
- Thank you very much.
- Thank you.
Thanks, Mr Price.
I found that quite odd.
How was that for you? I felt maybe that would be upsetting for youa little bit? I thinkI feel a little bit of disappointment about Mr Price's decisions.
I think that Butit felt like that was a kind of personal thing? I get a lot of that, it's one of the job hazards of being a clinician in this work.
If you go to the places where you believe that the patient needs to go to in their treatment, there's resistance cos they're very uncomfortable places within the person.
He became very, almost abusive and aggressive.
That's a very small microcosm of how he might be in the community, if he's faced with similar situations and similar stressors.
You know, he might have people like me, in various degrees in his life, and if that gets him unsettled, then he may act out towards that person, or it could be children.
One evening, I stayed late at the hospital, to attend one of their regular social events.
- What's the occasion today? - Halloween party.
Every month we have activities.
We have, like, Oktoberfest, karaoke night next month, and then December, we'll have a Christmas party.
Every month something's happening and every month we have birthday parties.
We give out cake, ice cream and gifts.
- Were you were in prison before this? - Yeah.
Is this something you do at prison? No, you don't get nothing like this in prison.
How do you like it in here? I don't like it here at all.
- I don't like being locked up! - Compared with prison? - I don't, honestly.
- You think it's worse than prison? - I like prison.
- Why? Cos you know where you stand, you know the ground you're on, the responsibilities, the respect you've got coming honestly, not dishonestly.
- And there was a - And there's a code, you know what's going on.
You're doing life just in case you do commit another crime.
That's not justice.
If that's the case, lock everybody up in society because tomorrow I might get in a car and run somebody over.
You're in here because there must be some sexual offence in your? - I had a date rape.
- A date rape? You guys wanna try some? Tell me if it tastes good! - Thank you.
- See if that's strong enough.
That tastes quite good.
I'd made another appointment with Mr Lamb.
Our first conversation had made an impression on me, and I wanted to know more about how he felt he'd changed.
Is there still for you a degree of attraction to small children? At this point there isn't, and I can safely and feel good about that accomplishment by saying that, and part of the reason is I chose to have personally chose to have a castration.
Very few people have gone that route, but it's relieved a great deal of the invasiveness of my deviancy, and allowed me to think and get into my soul, and my head, as to what I really did, and the hurt.
We're not talking about a chemical castration, it's a physical operation? It was physical.
I started with a chemical to seek that kind of relief, if that was possible, and when I started taking those shots, I said, "You know, I need this.
" And I chose the physical to make it permanent.
What no-one can really understand is why you would think at any time it would have been OK for you to molest a child, especially one as young as seven years old How could you have thought that that was something that it was OK to do? We do talk about this in our therapy groups.
"How can you do this?" and so forth.
We've answered that on and on again, with things like We're in an obsessive moment, things have gone wrong in life, and we've had early sexualisation, we've mid-molested ourselves, we've had lots of sexual encounters in early youth, and it's just something that seems to be necessary to pursue when things go wrong again.
In that mode, at that time, did it seem as though, um it was OK with the children, that the children would want it? Did it seem to you that was something they were seeking out? No.
I changed their normal life to make mine something, for that moment, some fun.
That is hard, and I can see that now, it's hindsight.
And in that moment, I'm nothing, I'm someone else.
I'm doing what I want, regardless of who is hurt.
That's why we've come to a place in the full line of treatment to see that and to really work with that, as you know, we can't go there again.
There is just tremendous pain.
What would you say to people who saw you now and said, "He's saying the right things now, how do we know he's changed? "Why should we be willing to take that risk "of allowing him back into the community?" Coming from the source, there may not be much credibility, but I can only say that in the last few years of the improved therapy and the responses from doctors and the work that I've done, the phrase that fits is "actions speak louder than words".
I can tell you anything, but if my actions show otherwise, then I'm not credible.
So I have to act well to be well, and then to be talked of in a better light.
It's gonna have to be proof in the pudding.
Little Star By now, I'd been in the hospital for several days.
More than ever, I was struck by the strangeness of the pleasant surroundings, and the fact that many, if not most, of these men would be living this way for the rest of their lives.
You're renting out DVDs? Yeah, for the Point Exchange Programme, we rent out DVDs and CDs Which ones have you got there? What have you got there? We've got all sorts Left Behind II, Nativity Story, Seven Years In Tibet Catch Me If You Can I was also becoming aware of a growing disgruntlement over the focus of the documentary.
Numerous individuals had approached me complaining I was spending too much time with the small minority involved in treatment.
How would you feel about spending the rest of your life in this hospital? Well, I don't like it, but I really have no choice.
This is the most corrupt programme, OK, that I've ever seen in my life, OK? The Phased Programme is nothing more than a sham that's here to hold us indefinitely.
This is nothing but a warehouse.
Look at the big money they get, they get $200,000 a year for keeping us in here, OK? Nobody wants us on the streets.
Among those who came up to me was a man who'd exhausted his legal appeals, and whose unwillingness to embrace treatment now meant that he would die at Coalinga.
His name was Mr Yahn.
How do you do? Louis.
Nice to meet you.
George is my middle name.
- That's generally what I go by.
- OK, George.
- Are you in the Phased Programme? - No, I am not.
For what reason? As many times as I have been asked that question, there's probably as many answers that are different, but the most important thing is there is nobody that can tell what's going on inside my head, period.
- Nobody knows.
- What about you? I do.
And I can tell you, I can tell anybody, I can tell your audience that I'm not a threat to anybody, other than I'm NOT a threat.
So you feel like, at this point, you're you don't need any kind of treatment? I haven't done anything to any of these people so far, and there's little tiny All due respect, there's individuals here that look like little kids that would probably be great targets, but it's like, "Why?" - In here? - Absolutely.
There's an RT running around here, looks like she's 12 years old.
- What's an RT? - Oh, rehabilitation therapist.
You know, you sit and look at her and sometimes I think she's a plant just to see if somebody would go off.
And it justin passing thought, I used to sit and think that, but she's just a person.
Can you see, though, that because your crimes were so serious that, um that the community at large in the state, as an institution, might feel that you need some treatment? Would you go into treatment if you had a headache? I'm curious, would you? I'm not trying to trap you.
At any point, was there any time where I actually physically raped a kid? Did you see anything like that? No, you did not.
My big thing was masturbation.
Big thing.
That was my big thing.
I mean, in a sense, the sex acts that you performed or were involved with, with children, would constitute a form of rape, wouldn't they? Because, I mean, wasn't there a nine-year-old girl who performed a sex act upon you? Sheshe gave me, she used her hand, and yes, she did.
In the notes it said, "oral copulation.
" That was my In the 1979 one? That's what I'm looking for? - Yes, '79.
- That is true.
And did you, you got your son to masturbate you? Yes.
No.
No, I didn't.
He was in the same room while I was masturbating.
Did I encourage them to do the same? Yes, I did.
And you masturbated him as well? - No.
- In the notes, it did say I know, I know that.
Given that you did these terrible things and you found them arousing, that implies that that's part of your make-up, to find those kinds of acts arousing.
At the time, that is correct.
At the time.
But you're asking me to believe that's stopped being your orientation? - Sure.
- How? How would you say that ended? For the simple fact that, when I said My kids were like this tall and here I am treating 'em like crap, OK? Now they're this big, and they're not only this big, but, all of a sudden, they've got this mind, and all of a sudden they're not just a kid, they're actually people.
And I never thought for a second that these little kids were actually people.
They are little people.
They have feelings, they have desires, they have wants, they need to be loved.
Is there anything that could induce you to enter into the Phased Programme? Promise me that I go home.
Promise me that they will show that anybody that goes through that Phased Programme will never, ever do anything again.
I was close to the end of my time at Coalinga.
One of the things that had struck me, given the awfulness of their crimes, was how relatively normal the people in the Phased Programme could come across, but I was also aware that having a plausible manner was one of the qualities that had enabled them to groom their victims, and I was keen not to be taken in.
I went back to see Mr Rigby.
He'd just had the results of his latest clinical tests.
I'd had the impression during our time together that he'd been honest with me.
I wondered whether I could trust my instincts.
- What happened? - Well, there were two polygraphs, the sexual history and the thoughts and fantasies.
And to pass the polygraph here, you actually have to get 100%.
You have to pass every question.
And it's important because it proves my state of abstinence, that I'm dedicated, that I don't, er look at pictures or movies and think deviant arousals or still think of kids as sexual objects.
At this point, could you say that Mr Rigby iscured? - Would you say you're cured? - No.
- I'll let him answer that.
- No.
I would say at this point, frankly, I am going to recommend his permanent facilitator refers him for staffing, which means that he will go to a panel, led by the medical director, that will determine his suitability for treatment in the community.
And I do believe that he is treatable in the community at this time.
One of the things that's been weird and difficult for me as a journalist, is balancing the idea of the treatment that exists here with the very real and understandable grievance that people feel here, that this is not a just or legitimate institution.
So how does that all balance up in your mind, Ernie? If I was in Alan's shoes, and I made a deal with a Government that said, "If you sign on this piece of paper, "we will put you in the penitentiary for ten years "and then you'll have parole, if you do right," and I did that, and then at the end of it the Government comes back and says, "We're changing the deal," I'd be outraged, and I would feel like my Constitutional rights were violated.
In our society, there's a lot of people that wanna You know, sexual offending is a loaded thing, to me too.
I mean, if I think about I think your behaviour was awful, and you already know that.
I'm not saying, you know - Have we had this discussion ever? - Certainly.
And I'm pretty skilled at separating that from judging this human being.
Not everybody in our society is.
Is that why this facility exists, do you think? Because of people's inability to separate, because of that sense of outrage? I honestly believe - and this is my opinion - that there's probably a significant component of that.
A little later, I was on my way to see Mr Price.
Since his heated exchange with Dr D'Orazio, over his polygraph results, he'd evidently had some second thoughts.
And he'd got word to me that he wanted to make amends.
We had an interesting conversation yesterday.
It seemed like you got a little annoyed with Dr D'Orazio.
- How're you feeling today? - I'm better.
Some residual feelings, but I also, you know, have taken stock of what was going on, what I was doing and realised how unacceptable it was, inappropriate.
And basically, what you got on film is a patient having emotional dysfunction, you know, just basically, just not regulating his emotions very well.
Will the incident yesterday have set Mr Price back in his treatment in any way, or in the Phased Programme? Be taken into account in some way? Well, I think that the team will That decision is not mine to make.
I think that, ultimately, that incident will serve as a great springboard for Mr Price to grow, and that will be the elements of great change for him.
However, if you do that stuff with other people, there's not gonna be all this processing and understanding, there's gonna be, "OK, you're outta here, buddy.
" Or even worse, a formal complaint, that kind of stuff.
The way he interacted yesterday could have led to a formal complaint in a different context? Sure.
Absolutely.
It was verbal assault.
It's actually probably a penal code violation of some sort, and I think a jury, you know, with the testimony that would come forward, would probablyconvict me of that.
Mr Price didn't raise his voice, as far as I remember, and he wasn't directly abusive, was he? I mean, what was he worst thing that he did? You're right, he didn't raise his voice and he didn't act out aggressively, physically in any way.
I think there was some purposefully intentional demeaning statements and some belittling statements, and some He made some statements to suggest that I wasn't being sincere in what I was offering.
When you tell someone that you don't believe what they're saying is sincere, you're basically cutting them off as a credible source.
So you're eliminating me from the conversation and the room, and that to me is a form of abuse.
I just wanna clarify for you, in case you have any concern in your mind, or any worry about this.
I am OK with myself and I don't feel I don't feel upset about the situation that occurred.
If anything, it's given me more empathy towards you and more awareness, and I do not allow myself to be victimised by you in that sense, so I will not be carrying that with me.
So know that I'm OK with it.
I had one last appointment with Mr Lamb.
I'd heard he had a new housing option in his sights.
I realised I'd started to feel he might be a changed person, but since our last meeting, I'd also had an opportunity to see his file for the first time, and I'd been shocked by the details of the abuse.
I'd begun to worry I hadn't questioned him closely enough to be sure he was being honest with me.
Well, I just got off the phone, as I said with, um a friend that's out there, that's on liberty, and he's allowed to call me.
His news was that he'd just got off the phone with his co-ordinator and mentioned to call me and say that there is some property, and they would establish a little trailer on that property and it's a little bit rural, so it's not right in the midst of the community, you know, which is a good thing for all parties concerned, I think.
Good to hear news like that.
Mim, you're Mr Lamb's clinician, his chief, what is it, chief clinician, or? - His primary phase provider.
- Is that's what it's called? Are you familiar with the details of the offences he committed? - Yes.
- I have to level about one thing, for me, as a journalist, the one challenge that I'm presented with with Mr Lamb, is that because he seems so upset about what he's done, it makes it difficult for me to pry into the details of his crimes.
I've sensed a little resistance to that, would that be fair to say? Sure.
There's a great deal of shame and grief when I've made it real for me.
But I'm not ashamed as much to tell people what I did, it's just, it doesn't seem to I mean, I can't see what telling every small detail and every victim and what awful things that were done to them, matter, or can help any journalism, or anybody other than a clinician.
I'm coming from a non-clinical perspective and I think there's viewers who would feel, not that every detail needs to be gone into, but there's also a sense that because the crimes are so serious, that people would feel they kind of need you to own up to what you did um, to some extent.
I'm not too sure how much more that I could actually own up to them.
Going through 11 years of treatment, after six years of prison, just to cover where I'm feeling about this.
What would you, as a representative of the community, feel Mr Lamb would need to do to "own up", to use your words, to own up to what he's done? I think it's by saying, "Here's the transparency, "and here's where I am now.
" If it's important to you to know the details of the crime, I'd be thrilled, truly, to tell you, but the important thing is that is my past.
I want that absolutely understood.
Most of the crimes were as a teenager, about 35 of them before I was 18.
I was just running willy-nilly in the neighbourhood, trying to befriend younger boys, under ten, generally.
If I could convince them to be orally copulated, that was my fetish, if you will.
The 15 that were as an adult, it was fondling and oral copulating, if it could get to that point.
That is justit's awful, it's awful to me now, but those are the things I did, the contact, sitting them on my lap, playing computer games, trying tohug, it's just constant contact obsession.
I sensed a certain amount of irritation from you, when we started talking about some of the crimes, and I just wondered, when he goes out into the community, he may face a large amount of publicity and journalists door-stepping him, I think would be a possibility.
TV crews turning up on his doorstep, I think might be a possibility.
If he finds that really annoying, that may be an issue for him.
You know, it's less annoying, than it is hurtful.
And perhaps the public would think, well, I need to be hurt over and over again, I can find ways to, to bring up stuff and make me feel bad about this for the rest of my life, but I do need to get over it too, and the treatment has let me do that.
In fact, the judge asked me, when he ordered the release um He said "Is this just a bunch of" What was it? Oh, "clinical buzz words you're telling me?" I said, "No, it's just a new way of life.
" My time at Coalinga was done.
I left impressed by the sincerity of some of the individuals and their commitment to change and baffled by the continuing self-delusion of others.
There were one or two I'd come to believe were reformed men but the awkward truth about Coalinga is that, despite the best intentions of the psychologists and social workers, most of the people here, even those in treatment, will never get out.
And so the main function of this hospital has become less about treating sex offenders than containing them.
Here, most of them will live, in comfort and confinement, until the end of their days.