Leah Remini: Scientology and the Aftermath (2016) s02e01 Episode Script
Thetans in Young Bodies
I'm hoping that when we meet with these lawyers today they say "You guys have found a way to help people".
Exactly.
I am hoping that that is what we will have at the end of the meeting today is, "Okay, we know what to do now.
"Yes, there's gonna be some work.
"Oh, yes, it's gonna take a little time, "but this is what now can be done, - and how we can proceed".
- Right.
I can't let the church continue to abuse people and take their money and their lives.
For some reason, I believe that I am the person to help to make it right.
- Here we are.
- We're here.
Oi.
- Okay.
- I'll get the bag.
- Thank you.
- Sure.
Thank you, honey.
Welcome back.
Last season, there was a tremendous amount of support for us and for the brave contributors who told their stories.
So thank you.
Since then, Mike and I have met with lawyers and the authorities and we are hopeful that something will be done about it, and justice will be served.
This season you're gonna hear even more horrific stories, and although they're heartbreaking and shocking, it does validate the fact that we are doing the right thing by continuing to speak out and continuing to expose Scientology and its abusive practices.
We will stand together all of us and we will continue to right these wrongs.
Scientologists believe that children are old spirits in little bodies.
That they've lived before and they're gonna live again.
Why is that dangerous? That's a dangerous concept because then there's no ownership.
You learn that, yes, you're daughter's your daughter this lifetime, but maybe she was your mother last lifetime, and she might be your husband, ne you know, another lifetime.
So you don't really uh, value your interpersonal relationships with your kids.
There's not, like, that ownership of, like, "No, that's my kid.
I will deal with my kid the way I deal with my kid".
You hand your child over to Scientology.
And it's just no way for a child to be raised.
After season one, more people reached out with more tragic stories of an organization that claims to be the moral standard for the world.
The hypocrisy is just horrendous.
And are there people that actually do want to do something about it? Yes, there are, and And we're meeting two of them today.
Hi! - Hi.
- Hi, baby.
- Good to see you.
- Hello, gorgeous.
- Hi, honey.
- Hi.
Hi, beautiful.
I am Mirriam Francis.
I was born into Scientology in 1984, and I left in 2010.
When I was seven years old, I met Saina.
This really cute little sweet, um just white-blond hair, Finnish Swedish girl who couldn't really speak a word of English.
I'm Saina Kamula and I was born into Scientology in 1985.
I was a Scientologist for 28 years, and I left in 2013.
Mirriam's my best friend.
We've been through a lot together.
I feel that many of us were neglected and even abused and things like that were not spoken of.
I reached out to the show because I felt it was time that our stories were told.
Thank you, both for reaching out to us.
and maybe people at home don't know the anguish that you go through even reaching out.
You know, it is a big decision to come forward and speak about something, especially something that's traumatic - Yeah.
- But this is something that I've wanted to do for many years, and I just hadn't come across the right platform in which to do it, and also the fact that if this happened to anybody else, I would be angered by it, and I would want to help them, and, yeah with it.
- Thank you.
- So, thank you.
I was never gonna speak out.
Right, yeah.
Init like, you know, when I left.
I just it wasn't gonna happen.
- Why? - Because my friends.
I have a huge net you know, network of friends and even people I used to work for, um, that are Scientologists and they're great people.
Uh, for me, I kind of just thought I could move on, and like I always have, but then I started gaining weight, um, started getting panic attacks, and flashbacks started, and it got to the point where I realized that that is a direct cause from the trauma, right.
So I had to start looking at it because for me, it was fine.
Everything was fine.
But it wasn't fine, and when I started seeing and remembering things, I got angry.
So that's why I'm here.
- Well, thank you.
- Yeah.
So my story begins in Australia in 1984.
My parents at that time were both in the Sea Organization.
I had two siblings two brothers.
My mother was an amazing oil painter.
She was very talented, and when I was about three, four years old, she then relocated to Los Angeles to complete a series of oil paintings, which were portraits of L.
Ron Hubbard, which she was recruited through the Sea Org to do.
By the way, I'm the one that brought the mother - to Los Angeles.
- Yes.
I had no idea she even had children.
Like you would give a fuck, Mike.
This is I wouldn't have.
That was my point.
- Yeah.
- There's no concern about children and family.
It's, "This is a Sea Org member.
"There is a Sea Org member who's an accomplished artist.
She's needed here because we have to do this book".
- Right.
- So she's then away for nearly two years and my dad is caring for us, and he's a single parent essentially.
During this time, he begins to sexually abuse me.
It would be in the night.
Um, I'd be asleep.
I would wake up to it happening.
Um, he would be I re actually, I don't want to get into detail about what actually he was doing to me.
Um it's yeah.
Okay.
So at the time, I would start to internalize and I just didn't want to exist in that moment, so I would actually say to myself, I would repeat this line, "I want to die.
I want to die.
I want to die".
Imagine, like, a three, four, or five-year-old child saying that to themselves.
For the first time recognizing that they wan they don't want to exist.
That they want to die at that age.
That was my first idea of I want to end my own life.
I was so scared that I wouldn't recognize her.
I actually couldn't remember what she looked like, and I was worried that she was gonna greet me at the airport and I wouldn't know who she is.
We greeted our mother at the airport and all my sort of anxiety sort of faded away as soon as I saw her because I was like, "This is my mum".
I was really happy.
Um I remember like I still remember what she looked like.
And I remember being very excited.
Like, really excited that we were all back together.
But from that point, my dad is put into full-time work with the Sea Organization, and my mum stays with us for the first two or three days to assimilate us into the Sea Organization school, and after that, I had no idea when I would see her.
This is the life of a Sea Org child.
There is no more parents.
Scientology's your parent.
They're in charge of everything.
So your parents have no real role in your life.
I had two children born into the Sea Organization.
They were not cared for by me.
I didn't house them.
I didn't school them.
I didn't provide them with anything.
And, you know, when they they do videos today saying what a rotten father I was, they're they're right.
I was.
I was a Sea Org father.
My brothers and I would spend approximately one night a week at my father's Sea Org apartment.
So I was about seven years old.
That's when the sexual abuse started up again, um, by my father.
One night, I was by myself and I was walking that hallway towards his room.
and I could see the door at the end of this hallway, and all of a sudden, the walls were just caving in on me, and there's this darkness coming in on me, and I get so scared that I black out.
I wake up I don't know how long after, and I'm in bed and my dad is putting the covers up on me and I can hear my brother's in the background saying, "What's happened to Mirriam? What's happened to Mirriam?" And my dad just replies, "Oh, she's sick.
She's sick at the moment".
When I wake up, there is actually evidence of what has occurred on my leg.
So I am actually not aware of what this substance is, but as an adult I now know what this means.
And you never told anyone as a child - that this was happening.
- Not at the time, no.
Yeah.
Yeah.
My mom got into Scientology through my dad.
You know, she was looking for something bigger, something better, and, you know, life wasn't doing it, you know, and Scientology for her was huge.
I was born in Sweden.
My parents split at an early age, and I went with my mother to Finland.
My mother was really smart.
You know, top of her class, and she was just looking for something bigger.
We moved to California because my mom was joining the Sea Org when I was 71/2, and I was put into the Apollo Training Academy with the other kids of Sea Org members.
I was with my mother.
I remember walking in, and she was holding me because I was scared out of my mind.
I remember Saina arriving to the ATA.
And so that's where you guys met.
Yeah, Saina arrived from Finland and she didn't speak a word of English.
Um you had very cute, like, matching outfits.
- Yes, I did.
- They were very cute.
They were, like, yellow and white polka dot.
I loved them.
I was like, "I like those outfits, girl," but And then we became friends - after that.
- Yes.
The ATA is an acronym for Apollo Training Academy, and it was basically a school Not an accredited school, but it was a place for all of the kids for the Sea Org members.
Right, and not having my mom there constantly, she was the only person I could speak Finnish with.
There's no other person that I know of that spoke Finnish, - and I'm being teased constantly.
- Yeah.
I hated it.
I wanted to go back to my loving family in Finland.
About a year in, I'd learned quite a bit of English, but I was still bullied for my accent, and how I spoke and I felt very alone, and there was a teacher that was extremely nice to me, and he made me feel safe, and I really appreciated that.
He told me I can play the computer games on his computer and that kind of took me away from being teased or taunted.
And it started slow.
I mean, he would sometimes just give me hugs here or there or tickle me, and And it just kind of, like, slowly, gradually evolved into, you know, him having me sit on his lap, you know, while he's teaching me games.
His hands over my hand.
It just seems innocuous enough.
But then there became, like, grinding and rubbing and and and really hol like, tight hugs that I felt very uncomfortable in.
Kisses on the neck, and then I remember the main time was the scariest was, he was he was panting, breathing, touch I remember fingers under my shirt, um, and he got up and he locked the doors.
And I was terrified.
And I felt like I knew what he wanted, but I didn't want that, and I froze.
And, again, just a lot of activity, a lot of touching, and there's no penetration, but I just remember his red panting face.
Just making god-awful sounds.
I told my mom, "I don't wanna be here.
I really don't wanna be here".
Um and she's li she didn't even ask me why.
She just said, "You're just being counter-intention to my dreams, to my purpose.
You are taught pretty early on in Scientology that there is an intention, and the intention is to clear the planet, and that is the most important thing that you are doing.
Anything that doesn't contribute to that intention is considered counter-intention.
If you're "being a child," you are considered counter-intention.
If you want your mommy or your daddy, you are being counter-intention.
I was kind of in shock.
This is my mom.
This is this is who I, you know, went across the ocean with, and she's my only person.
There was another teacher there that I felt more comfortable telling about what happened, and I remember her grabbing my arm and I just feel like I remember feeling so ashamed.
This teacher, she told me, you know, "You are nattering".
And nattering is a Scientology word for finding fault with or criticizing.
So you went and tell another Sea Org member That you were are being molested, and she tells you that you are criticizing the Sea Org member, and, therefore, you have transgressions that you need to go and sit down and write - Right.
- Because the only reason why you're saying this is because you've done something to that man, to the child molester, and the only reason you're saying it - is to make him look bad - Yes, yes, yes.
- Because of things you've done.
- Because I wanna leave.
Exactly.
I don't know what I did wrong, but I had to make amends, and from there, it was very clear to me, that this is not something that I can talk about, and that it was somehow my fault that that had happened.
Who can you go to if you cannot go to your mother and you cannot go to a trusted Sea Org member that is supposed to be looking after you, supposed to be involved in taking care of the children.
There is nowhere to go to outside of that.
You are in a very closed group and this is what you deal with, and you deal with it internally like that.
That moment when I tried to talk to my mom and this other Sea Org member was a pivotal moment because it was like the foundation underneath me was ripped.
I realized, there's nothing I can do.
There's nothing.
The PAC Ranch was just a bunch of trailers plopped down on a few acres in the desert SoCal area, and that's where we studied more Scientology, and worked and lived amongst each other.
And this teacher comes with us.
The child molester comes follows you to the ranch.
- Correct.
- Yep.
There were times when, you know, I would raise my hand and he'd come over and put his hand right underneath my armpit.
Kind of inch it towards, you know, my nipple and Sometimes just, you know, caress my back, and just to remind me, you know, he's still there.
I was defeated.
I was helpless.
And at such a young age, it's hard to shake that.
It's hard to shake that when no one sticks up for you.
No one's told you, "It's not your fault.
It shouldn't have happened to you".
And it lasts a lifetime the effects.
It doesn't just go away.
Uh, meanwhile, you know, you're doing all the Scientology courses.
I'm learning about Scientology.
This is like minor league Sea Org moving to the big leagues as soon as they can grab you.
We we are assets.
We are property.
We are being raised and groomed for this purpose.
The PAC Ranch was very military-esque.
Talk back, you do push-ups or run around the entire ranch area.
you know, te up to ten laps sometimes in the hot, blistering sun.
There was a lot more pressure to have responsibilities in positions for the first time.
We became our own kind of running government system.
- Regulators, yeah.
- The people that made our food.
- Yeah.
- Other our friends.
The PAC Ranch was a lot like "Lord of the Flies".
I mean, we had our own, what's called an organization board.
So we had our, you know, head person in charge, the commanding officer, and then you had the different divisions.
Everyone has different jobs, and you have to do your job.
It's mandatory.
We built, like, pathways, around the dormitories.
We stacked up rocks or sort of cleared the sides of hills or cleared the ground for like, did fire breaks.
- That sort of thing.
- As kids, we were doing a lot of the work that, you know, the staff, obviously, should have been doing.
L.
Ron Hubbard wrote specific policies for the Sea Organization that dictate children are treated identically to adults.
There is no difference on what is expected of them, or how they are treated in whether they accomplish what's expected of them.
There was one moment where the principal, he came into the cafeteria area, and he saw the mess that you know, we were pretty dirty, I guess, and he said, "If you're gonna act like pigs, you're gonna eat like pigs," and he told us lunch would be in the dumpster area.
And so we looked at it and it was maggot infested.
But that's where we ate lunch that day.
We also had these very special missions that have a specific purpose.
To give you one example, when I was probably about eight, nine years old, we were sent to build the road, which is called L.
Ron Hubbard Way.
So we actually put all the bricks in that you see on that street.
That's one example of a mission.
But some of the missions would be renovating a building as children.
When I was about 11, 12 years old, I was sent to LA with this small group of children.
We were demolishing the walls of one of the floors of that building.
We had actually they had given us a little mask, and Like, that you would get at, like, 7-eleven? Yeah, one of those.
And we had sledgehammers, and we were busting down walls, and I do not know if these materials contained asbestos, for example.
I we have no idea.
I have no idea.
We'll never know maybe.
but was collecting up all the materials, putting 'em in wheelbarrows, and then taking them all there was a shoot that came down and it went into a dumpster.
We would be covered from head-to-toe in a white dust.
What was your understanding as children? Like, as children, what did you think you were doing? Um like, I didn't fully understand what I was doing, but I knew nothing else than that.
They're being groomed to become - full-fledged Sea Org members.
- Yeah, totally.
Absolutely, yeah.
When I was 12 years old, I was at the ranch, and some Sea Org recruiters came up, in their, you know, nice uniforms.
- Naval uniforms.
- Yeah, they come up, and I was always in awe of them.
- Like, "Oh, this looks so cool".
- Oh, yeah.
They were, like, um, almost god-like, really.
And they just passed around contracts, and we all signed them.
I didn't know what that meant at the time.
It's just that's your you know, that's your destiny.
So at 12, I signed the billion-year contract.
And I didn't want to be left behind, so I then also signed a billion-year contract.
Our parents weren't there.
I don't even know if my mom knew.
I don't know.
He said, "I need, to talk to Mirriam alone," and he told my brothers to stand aside and wait.
I immediately knew that this could be something connected to the sexual abuse.
I was absolutely just terrified.
I, like I felt it in my body.
My legs were, like, just wooden stumps, and he made us walk to this little hill and sit down, um, and he said, "I've got to tell you something".
Um "When you were about three to four years old, "I was intoxicated at the time, "I had been drinking, "I put my penis between your legs.
I did not penetrate you.
That's what happened".
And I felt it odd at the time, the way that he delivered these, they were he was delivering them as statements.
There was no emotion.
There was no emotion to it either.
It was very prepared.
I couldn't bear this conversation at all.
He said, "Do you forgive me?" And I said, "Yes".
Again, trying to get this conversation over and done with.
Then as we're leaving and he's giving us a hug good-bye, he says, "Act normal.
It's what he instructs me.
"Act normal".
Your dad told you, gave up this confession to you - Yeah.
- Not because he had, - a heavy heart - No.
- Of what he had done.
- He was instructed to tell me.
For the purpose of what? He's on clearance lines, which means he's trying to be qualified to go up the upper level, which is where my mother is.
So he's doing that process and in that, that is very heavy confessionals.
I believe most of it is confessionals, which are on the E-meter, which is the lie detector.
In these confessionals, the sexual abuse has come up, and he ends up confessing to this.
Now what they would have done is told him he needs to do a handling on this, where they will list specific steps for him to do.
He's checked if I remembered.
He's gotten me to forgive him.
Case closed.
Job done.
I then suffer some of the the worst of the trauma is following this, from about age 12 to age 17, because it's the not knowing.
And who do I go to? And I can't even talk about this.
When I was in the Sea Organization at 13 years old, I used to lock myself in the toilets, and I would cry and cry and cry.
And they started auditing me, um, and that's when they also labeled me a potential trouble source.
- What does that mean? - Because it means that I'm failing, I'm struggling with something, and it means that there's a suppressive person who is making me that way, and we need to then discover who this suppressive person is.
They say, "Who is this suppressive person?" And I say, "It's my dad," and the auditor s he actually chuckles, and he says, "Ha, that can't be right.
he's a Sea Org member.
Pick someone else".
They weren't even concerned with what Mirriam was saying.
That's what's so crazy.
This little girl is saying, "My dad is hurting me," and they're saying, "Go fuck yourself".
The church, by the way, all this while, - has the information - Yes.
Contained in his confessional folder.
- Yes, yes.
- So they're very aware that a crime had taken place multiple times.
I start to really mentally struggle with now being in his presence, - which I hadn't been for so long.
- Right.
I realize that I need to leave this thing.
I had to get away from this.
I needed to go to Australia and I needed to start my life.
My auditor, he said, "I will pay for your flight, "and I will give you 400 pounds, "but there's one last thing you need to do "before we're going to let you leave.
You need to sign this paperwork".
Which was an affidavit, and it said, "I'm Mirriam Francis, forgive my father "for what he has done to me, "and I will never sue the church for this.
For what he has done".
I I was so disgusted.
I was I couldn't believe it.
Like, how could they ask me? How could they ask me? This does not make any fucking sense.
Like, I just threw the paper at him and I just said, "I am not signing this.
This is ridiculous".
Like, "This is crazy".
Um, and he said, "We will not let you leave until you sign it".
Those were my options.
Either be kept here against my will, or there's freedom, you just have to sign this paper.
I really felt backed into a corner, that I didn't have any other choice, and I didn't have any other means to leave.
And that's why I actually ended up signing it.
Life in the Sea Org was long days, and little reward.
You got paid, if you were lucky, $50 a week.
You're working from the moment you wake up, from 8:00 to 9:00, till sometimes I was up until 4:00, 5:00 a.
m.
, and that's when I'm a minor.
I was a minor the entire time I was there from the ages of 12 to 17.
You know, it was just, like, struggle to just to get anything, and I felt like I had nothing.
We were exchanging each other's clothes, Goodwill was the only way to do it, and yet, you're working, you know, 60-hour work weeks.
I was not happy.
I wa had constant suicidal tendencies or thoughts of hurting myself, and I was put under, you know, suicide watch a few times.
When I was 17, I wanted to leave the Sea Org, but they resisted.
They don't want people to leave.
So especially someone who's technically trained, as I was.
They know you don't have an education.
They know that that's all you know, and so they play on that fear, and they tell you you're not gonna make it, and the world is scary.
But I have nothing left to lose.
The the risk of staying there became too great because I was so unhappy that anything has to be better than this.
Anything.
You know, you're so desperate for things to get better.
And it's terrifying.
You have nobody.
When I went on the Internet for the fir this is the first time, I'm like, "Oh, my God, I can't even believe I'm doing this".
You hadn't looked at anything because you were still being a good Scientologist which is: Don't look at anything that's the truth about Scientology, - don't look on websites.
- But as I'm reading, I'm reading these stories, and people are repeating the exact same things I have experienced.
Tonight, a special "Lateline" investigation that raises allegations that the church in Sydney was involved in covering up the sexual assault of an 11-year-old girl.
Scientology is lurching from controversy to the courtroom.
When you hear about it or you see it's happened to someone else.
There is this rage, and that was very emotional for me.
Very emotional.
And then I went to a counselor for the first time.
And this is also "a bad-girl thing," right? Oh, yeah, we would not go to a counselor, no, and I was amazed because when I was in the session, it was the first time I could say something without fear of consequence.
I wasn't gonna be punished.
That's the first time in my life that I had that.
In this counseling session, the counselor then asks me, um, "Would you like to report this to the police?" And I was like, "Can I?" And she said, "Yes," if you want to, you can," and I was like, "I would really, really like to do that".
You had no idea that you could? Up and to that point, I never even considered it.
Right.
I filed that police report in 2012.
And detailed statements have been taken in person.
So everything is on record, and it was assigned to a police investigator in Sydney, which is where the incidents occurred.
And at one stage, I contacted my mother to ask if she would be willing to provide a statement to assist in the case, and she was very uncomfortable with it.
She told me she was actually disappointed in me that I had gone to the police.
I explained to her, like, "This is what I need to do now for me because nothing else has worked".
And she said, "Mirriam, but you know that a Scientologist doesn't sue another Scientologist".
And she was like, "Well, surely there's something else we can do.
We can get him to apologize to you".
I said, "The only thing he can do is walk into a police station and confess to what he's done".
- Right.
- I said, "So, will you give me "an answer: Yes or no? Will you be willing to provide a statement?" And she said, "Well, I need to consult internally within the church".
And the answer was? "I'm not willing to provide a statement for you".
My mother sacrificed her own children.
She has given up her own children for this organization.
I cannot reconcile with that.
I had never asked my mum for anything my entire life.
This was the one thing I needed her to help me with.
The one thing.
And she couldn't do it.
Scientology views the government and affiliated governing bodies as corrupt, so the thought doesn't even cross your mind to report someone.
They say that it's a high crime, a suppressive act, which is, like, the worst thing, and you can get, you know, basically excommunicated for it.
- Oh, okay.
- Yeah.
- How you guys feeling? - Good.
- You feeling okay? - Yeah.
Okay, guys, so let's just stop rolling on this.
It took a lot of balls to do it.
And thank you for letting us be part of it.
I was so touched.
When real law enforcement tells victims that you are in fact victims, and there was nothing right about this, and it wasn't your fault.
Talking to the detectives was scary at first But then it was like a huge weight lifted off me.
Finally, something is being done.
It's what I've always wanted.
You know, my children, what're they gonna think of me in years to come after this all comes out, and I just thought, you know, that they're gonna be proud of me that I didn't just stop and not do anything about it.
And I think as well, it's standing up for myself.
It's saying, "Hey, you are important enough".
Scientology has controlled me my entire life, and I'm just not willing to give them that control anymore, and to anyone that's been in a similar situation to me or has been raised similarly to me, we have to do something.
If we don't do anything, then they'll continue to control us.
I feel like being here is helping me take back my power.
It's helping me feel less helpless and less hopeless.
And me being here, yes, it's a high crime, and, yes, I will be excommunicated, and, yes, I'm gonna lose some people I really considered friends and I dearly love, but speaking my truth speaking my truth now, that's way more important.
Our childhood was really messed up, and there were things that were not okay, and we're not crazy.
Doing this right now is something that I have to do for my inner child.
It's my big hug for her.
And I'm doing what I can for her.
I'm doing what I can for my inner child, who was helpless and not mentored or protected.
And I'm doing this for my friends who are now excommunicated from their own parents and siblings.
This is just about me.
This is for them.
It's heartbreaking to hear these stories, Leah, and see the effect that it has had on people, and their lives.
And people should know this at Scientology who are watching this.
They should know this about me and they should know this about you.
I don't give up.
I'm gonna make a career out of exposing this organization.
It's not gonna continue.
It might not be this year, it might not be next year, but eventually, it's gonna happen.
Right.
Exactly.
I am hoping that that is what we will have at the end of the meeting today is, "Okay, we know what to do now.
"Yes, there's gonna be some work.
"Oh, yes, it's gonna take a little time, "but this is what now can be done, - and how we can proceed".
- Right.
I can't let the church continue to abuse people and take their money and their lives.
For some reason, I believe that I am the person to help to make it right.
- Here we are.
- We're here.
Oi.
- Okay.
- I'll get the bag.
- Thank you.
- Sure.
Thank you, honey.
Welcome back.
Last season, there was a tremendous amount of support for us and for the brave contributors who told their stories.
So thank you.
Since then, Mike and I have met with lawyers and the authorities and we are hopeful that something will be done about it, and justice will be served.
This season you're gonna hear even more horrific stories, and although they're heartbreaking and shocking, it does validate the fact that we are doing the right thing by continuing to speak out and continuing to expose Scientology and its abusive practices.
We will stand together all of us and we will continue to right these wrongs.
Scientologists believe that children are old spirits in little bodies.
That they've lived before and they're gonna live again.
Why is that dangerous? That's a dangerous concept because then there's no ownership.
You learn that, yes, you're daughter's your daughter this lifetime, but maybe she was your mother last lifetime, and she might be your husband, ne you know, another lifetime.
So you don't really uh, value your interpersonal relationships with your kids.
There's not, like, that ownership of, like, "No, that's my kid.
I will deal with my kid the way I deal with my kid".
You hand your child over to Scientology.
And it's just no way for a child to be raised.
After season one, more people reached out with more tragic stories of an organization that claims to be the moral standard for the world.
The hypocrisy is just horrendous.
And are there people that actually do want to do something about it? Yes, there are, and And we're meeting two of them today.
Hi! - Hi.
- Hi, baby.
- Good to see you.
- Hello, gorgeous.
- Hi, honey.
- Hi.
Hi, beautiful.
I am Mirriam Francis.
I was born into Scientology in 1984, and I left in 2010.
When I was seven years old, I met Saina.
This really cute little sweet, um just white-blond hair, Finnish Swedish girl who couldn't really speak a word of English.
I'm Saina Kamula and I was born into Scientology in 1985.
I was a Scientologist for 28 years, and I left in 2013.
Mirriam's my best friend.
We've been through a lot together.
I feel that many of us were neglected and even abused and things like that were not spoken of.
I reached out to the show because I felt it was time that our stories were told.
Thank you, both for reaching out to us.
and maybe people at home don't know the anguish that you go through even reaching out.
You know, it is a big decision to come forward and speak about something, especially something that's traumatic - Yeah.
- But this is something that I've wanted to do for many years, and I just hadn't come across the right platform in which to do it, and also the fact that if this happened to anybody else, I would be angered by it, and I would want to help them, and, yeah with it.
- Thank you.
- So, thank you.
I was never gonna speak out.
Right, yeah.
Init like, you know, when I left.
I just it wasn't gonna happen.
- Why? - Because my friends.
I have a huge net you know, network of friends and even people I used to work for, um, that are Scientologists and they're great people.
Uh, for me, I kind of just thought I could move on, and like I always have, but then I started gaining weight, um, started getting panic attacks, and flashbacks started, and it got to the point where I realized that that is a direct cause from the trauma, right.
So I had to start looking at it because for me, it was fine.
Everything was fine.
But it wasn't fine, and when I started seeing and remembering things, I got angry.
So that's why I'm here.
- Well, thank you.
- Yeah.
So my story begins in Australia in 1984.
My parents at that time were both in the Sea Organization.
I had two siblings two brothers.
My mother was an amazing oil painter.
She was very talented, and when I was about three, four years old, she then relocated to Los Angeles to complete a series of oil paintings, which were portraits of L.
Ron Hubbard, which she was recruited through the Sea Org to do.
By the way, I'm the one that brought the mother - to Los Angeles.
- Yes.
I had no idea she even had children.
Like you would give a fuck, Mike.
This is I wouldn't have.
That was my point.
- Yeah.
- There's no concern about children and family.
It's, "This is a Sea Org member.
"There is a Sea Org member who's an accomplished artist.
She's needed here because we have to do this book".
- Right.
- So she's then away for nearly two years and my dad is caring for us, and he's a single parent essentially.
During this time, he begins to sexually abuse me.
It would be in the night.
Um, I'd be asleep.
I would wake up to it happening.
Um, he would be I re actually, I don't want to get into detail about what actually he was doing to me.
Um it's yeah.
Okay.
So at the time, I would start to internalize and I just didn't want to exist in that moment, so I would actually say to myself, I would repeat this line, "I want to die.
I want to die.
I want to die".
Imagine, like, a three, four, or five-year-old child saying that to themselves.
For the first time recognizing that they wan they don't want to exist.
That they want to die at that age.
That was my first idea of I want to end my own life.
I was so scared that I wouldn't recognize her.
I actually couldn't remember what she looked like, and I was worried that she was gonna greet me at the airport and I wouldn't know who she is.
We greeted our mother at the airport and all my sort of anxiety sort of faded away as soon as I saw her because I was like, "This is my mum".
I was really happy.
Um I remember like I still remember what she looked like.
And I remember being very excited.
Like, really excited that we were all back together.
But from that point, my dad is put into full-time work with the Sea Organization, and my mum stays with us for the first two or three days to assimilate us into the Sea Organization school, and after that, I had no idea when I would see her.
This is the life of a Sea Org child.
There is no more parents.
Scientology's your parent.
They're in charge of everything.
So your parents have no real role in your life.
I had two children born into the Sea Organization.
They were not cared for by me.
I didn't house them.
I didn't school them.
I didn't provide them with anything.
And, you know, when they they do videos today saying what a rotten father I was, they're they're right.
I was.
I was a Sea Org father.
My brothers and I would spend approximately one night a week at my father's Sea Org apartment.
So I was about seven years old.
That's when the sexual abuse started up again, um, by my father.
One night, I was by myself and I was walking that hallway towards his room.
and I could see the door at the end of this hallway, and all of a sudden, the walls were just caving in on me, and there's this darkness coming in on me, and I get so scared that I black out.
I wake up I don't know how long after, and I'm in bed and my dad is putting the covers up on me and I can hear my brother's in the background saying, "What's happened to Mirriam? What's happened to Mirriam?" And my dad just replies, "Oh, she's sick.
She's sick at the moment".
When I wake up, there is actually evidence of what has occurred on my leg.
So I am actually not aware of what this substance is, but as an adult I now know what this means.
And you never told anyone as a child - that this was happening.
- Not at the time, no.
Yeah.
Yeah.
My mom got into Scientology through my dad.
You know, she was looking for something bigger, something better, and, you know, life wasn't doing it, you know, and Scientology for her was huge.
I was born in Sweden.
My parents split at an early age, and I went with my mother to Finland.
My mother was really smart.
You know, top of her class, and she was just looking for something bigger.
We moved to California because my mom was joining the Sea Org when I was 71/2, and I was put into the Apollo Training Academy with the other kids of Sea Org members.
I was with my mother.
I remember walking in, and she was holding me because I was scared out of my mind.
I remember Saina arriving to the ATA.
And so that's where you guys met.
Yeah, Saina arrived from Finland and she didn't speak a word of English.
Um you had very cute, like, matching outfits.
- Yes, I did.
- They were very cute.
They were, like, yellow and white polka dot.
I loved them.
I was like, "I like those outfits, girl," but And then we became friends - after that.
- Yes.
The ATA is an acronym for Apollo Training Academy, and it was basically a school Not an accredited school, but it was a place for all of the kids for the Sea Org members.
Right, and not having my mom there constantly, she was the only person I could speak Finnish with.
There's no other person that I know of that spoke Finnish, - and I'm being teased constantly.
- Yeah.
I hated it.
I wanted to go back to my loving family in Finland.
About a year in, I'd learned quite a bit of English, but I was still bullied for my accent, and how I spoke and I felt very alone, and there was a teacher that was extremely nice to me, and he made me feel safe, and I really appreciated that.
He told me I can play the computer games on his computer and that kind of took me away from being teased or taunted.
And it started slow.
I mean, he would sometimes just give me hugs here or there or tickle me, and And it just kind of, like, slowly, gradually evolved into, you know, him having me sit on his lap, you know, while he's teaching me games.
His hands over my hand.
It just seems innocuous enough.
But then there became, like, grinding and rubbing and and and really hol like, tight hugs that I felt very uncomfortable in.
Kisses on the neck, and then I remember the main time was the scariest was, he was he was panting, breathing, touch I remember fingers under my shirt, um, and he got up and he locked the doors.
And I was terrified.
And I felt like I knew what he wanted, but I didn't want that, and I froze.
And, again, just a lot of activity, a lot of touching, and there's no penetration, but I just remember his red panting face.
Just making god-awful sounds.
I told my mom, "I don't wanna be here.
I really don't wanna be here".
Um and she's li she didn't even ask me why.
She just said, "You're just being counter-intention to my dreams, to my purpose.
You are taught pretty early on in Scientology that there is an intention, and the intention is to clear the planet, and that is the most important thing that you are doing.
Anything that doesn't contribute to that intention is considered counter-intention.
If you're "being a child," you are considered counter-intention.
If you want your mommy or your daddy, you are being counter-intention.
I was kind of in shock.
This is my mom.
This is this is who I, you know, went across the ocean with, and she's my only person.
There was another teacher there that I felt more comfortable telling about what happened, and I remember her grabbing my arm and I just feel like I remember feeling so ashamed.
This teacher, she told me, you know, "You are nattering".
And nattering is a Scientology word for finding fault with or criticizing.
So you went and tell another Sea Org member That you were are being molested, and she tells you that you are criticizing the Sea Org member, and, therefore, you have transgressions that you need to go and sit down and write - Right.
- Because the only reason why you're saying this is because you've done something to that man, to the child molester, and the only reason you're saying it - is to make him look bad - Yes, yes, yes.
- Because of things you've done.
- Because I wanna leave.
Exactly.
I don't know what I did wrong, but I had to make amends, and from there, it was very clear to me, that this is not something that I can talk about, and that it was somehow my fault that that had happened.
Who can you go to if you cannot go to your mother and you cannot go to a trusted Sea Org member that is supposed to be looking after you, supposed to be involved in taking care of the children.
There is nowhere to go to outside of that.
You are in a very closed group and this is what you deal with, and you deal with it internally like that.
That moment when I tried to talk to my mom and this other Sea Org member was a pivotal moment because it was like the foundation underneath me was ripped.
I realized, there's nothing I can do.
There's nothing.
The PAC Ranch was just a bunch of trailers plopped down on a few acres in the desert SoCal area, and that's where we studied more Scientology, and worked and lived amongst each other.
And this teacher comes with us.
The child molester comes follows you to the ranch.
- Correct.
- Yep.
There were times when, you know, I would raise my hand and he'd come over and put his hand right underneath my armpit.
Kind of inch it towards, you know, my nipple and Sometimes just, you know, caress my back, and just to remind me, you know, he's still there.
I was defeated.
I was helpless.
And at such a young age, it's hard to shake that.
It's hard to shake that when no one sticks up for you.
No one's told you, "It's not your fault.
It shouldn't have happened to you".
And it lasts a lifetime the effects.
It doesn't just go away.
Uh, meanwhile, you know, you're doing all the Scientology courses.
I'm learning about Scientology.
This is like minor league Sea Org moving to the big leagues as soon as they can grab you.
We we are assets.
We are property.
We are being raised and groomed for this purpose.
The PAC Ranch was very military-esque.
Talk back, you do push-ups or run around the entire ranch area.
you know, te up to ten laps sometimes in the hot, blistering sun.
There was a lot more pressure to have responsibilities in positions for the first time.
We became our own kind of running government system.
- Regulators, yeah.
- The people that made our food.
- Yeah.
- Other our friends.
The PAC Ranch was a lot like "Lord of the Flies".
I mean, we had our own, what's called an organization board.
So we had our, you know, head person in charge, the commanding officer, and then you had the different divisions.
Everyone has different jobs, and you have to do your job.
It's mandatory.
We built, like, pathways, around the dormitories.
We stacked up rocks or sort of cleared the sides of hills or cleared the ground for like, did fire breaks.
- That sort of thing.
- As kids, we were doing a lot of the work that, you know, the staff, obviously, should have been doing.
L.
Ron Hubbard wrote specific policies for the Sea Organization that dictate children are treated identically to adults.
There is no difference on what is expected of them, or how they are treated in whether they accomplish what's expected of them.
There was one moment where the principal, he came into the cafeteria area, and he saw the mess that you know, we were pretty dirty, I guess, and he said, "If you're gonna act like pigs, you're gonna eat like pigs," and he told us lunch would be in the dumpster area.
And so we looked at it and it was maggot infested.
But that's where we ate lunch that day.
We also had these very special missions that have a specific purpose.
To give you one example, when I was probably about eight, nine years old, we were sent to build the road, which is called L.
Ron Hubbard Way.
So we actually put all the bricks in that you see on that street.
That's one example of a mission.
But some of the missions would be renovating a building as children.
When I was about 11, 12 years old, I was sent to LA with this small group of children.
We were demolishing the walls of one of the floors of that building.
We had actually they had given us a little mask, and Like, that you would get at, like, 7-eleven? Yeah, one of those.
And we had sledgehammers, and we were busting down walls, and I do not know if these materials contained asbestos, for example.
I we have no idea.
I have no idea.
We'll never know maybe.
but was collecting up all the materials, putting 'em in wheelbarrows, and then taking them all there was a shoot that came down and it went into a dumpster.
We would be covered from head-to-toe in a white dust.
What was your understanding as children? Like, as children, what did you think you were doing? Um like, I didn't fully understand what I was doing, but I knew nothing else than that.
They're being groomed to become - full-fledged Sea Org members.
- Yeah, totally.
Absolutely, yeah.
When I was 12 years old, I was at the ranch, and some Sea Org recruiters came up, in their, you know, nice uniforms.
- Naval uniforms.
- Yeah, they come up, and I was always in awe of them.
- Like, "Oh, this looks so cool".
- Oh, yeah.
They were, like, um, almost god-like, really.
And they just passed around contracts, and we all signed them.
I didn't know what that meant at the time.
It's just that's your you know, that's your destiny.
So at 12, I signed the billion-year contract.
And I didn't want to be left behind, so I then also signed a billion-year contract.
Our parents weren't there.
I don't even know if my mom knew.
I don't know.
He said, "I need, to talk to Mirriam alone," and he told my brothers to stand aside and wait.
I immediately knew that this could be something connected to the sexual abuse.
I was absolutely just terrified.
I, like I felt it in my body.
My legs were, like, just wooden stumps, and he made us walk to this little hill and sit down, um, and he said, "I've got to tell you something".
Um "When you were about three to four years old, "I was intoxicated at the time, "I had been drinking, "I put my penis between your legs.
I did not penetrate you.
That's what happened".
And I felt it odd at the time, the way that he delivered these, they were he was delivering them as statements.
There was no emotion.
There was no emotion to it either.
It was very prepared.
I couldn't bear this conversation at all.
He said, "Do you forgive me?" And I said, "Yes".
Again, trying to get this conversation over and done with.
Then as we're leaving and he's giving us a hug good-bye, he says, "Act normal.
It's what he instructs me.
"Act normal".
Your dad told you, gave up this confession to you - Yeah.
- Not because he had, - a heavy heart - No.
- Of what he had done.
- He was instructed to tell me.
For the purpose of what? He's on clearance lines, which means he's trying to be qualified to go up the upper level, which is where my mother is.
So he's doing that process and in that, that is very heavy confessionals.
I believe most of it is confessionals, which are on the E-meter, which is the lie detector.
In these confessionals, the sexual abuse has come up, and he ends up confessing to this.
Now what they would have done is told him he needs to do a handling on this, where they will list specific steps for him to do.
He's checked if I remembered.
He's gotten me to forgive him.
Case closed.
Job done.
I then suffer some of the the worst of the trauma is following this, from about age 12 to age 17, because it's the not knowing.
And who do I go to? And I can't even talk about this.
When I was in the Sea Organization at 13 years old, I used to lock myself in the toilets, and I would cry and cry and cry.
And they started auditing me, um, and that's when they also labeled me a potential trouble source.
- What does that mean? - Because it means that I'm failing, I'm struggling with something, and it means that there's a suppressive person who is making me that way, and we need to then discover who this suppressive person is.
They say, "Who is this suppressive person?" And I say, "It's my dad," and the auditor s he actually chuckles, and he says, "Ha, that can't be right.
he's a Sea Org member.
Pick someone else".
They weren't even concerned with what Mirriam was saying.
That's what's so crazy.
This little girl is saying, "My dad is hurting me," and they're saying, "Go fuck yourself".
The church, by the way, all this while, - has the information - Yes.
Contained in his confessional folder.
- Yes, yes.
- So they're very aware that a crime had taken place multiple times.
I start to really mentally struggle with now being in his presence, - which I hadn't been for so long.
- Right.
I realize that I need to leave this thing.
I had to get away from this.
I needed to go to Australia and I needed to start my life.
My auditor, he said, "I will pay for your flight, "and I will give you 400 pounds, "but there's one last thing you need to do "before we're going to let you leave.
You need to sign this paperwork".
Which was an affidavit, and it said, "I'm Mirriam Francis, forgive my father "for what he has done to me, "and I will never sue the church for this.
For what he has done".
I I was so disgusted.
I was I couldn't believe it.
Like, how could they ask me? How could they ask me? This does not make any fucking sense.
Like, I just threw the paper at him and I just said, "I am not signing this.
This is ridiculous".
Like, "This is crazy".
Um, and he said, "We will not let you leave until you sign it".
Those were my options.
Either be kept here against my will, or there's freedom, you just have to sign this paper.
I really felt backed into a corner, that I didn't have any other choice, and I didn't have any other means to leave.
And that's why I actually ended up signing it.
Life in the Sea Org was long days, and little reward.
You got paid, if you were lucky, $50 a week.
You're working from the moment you wake up, from 8:00 to 9:00, till sometimes I was up until 4:00, 5:00 a.
m.
, and that's when I'm a minor.
I was a minor the entire time I was there from the ages of 12 to 17.
You know, it was just, like, struggle to just to get anything, and I felt like I had nothing.
We were exchanging each other's clothes, Goodwill was the only way to do it, and yet, you're working, you know, 60-hour work weeks.
I was not happy.
I wa had constant suicidal tendencies or thoughts of hurting myself, and I was put under, you know, suicide watch a few times.
When I was 17, I wanted to leave the Sea Org, but they resisted.
They don't want people to leave.
So especially someone who's technically trained, as I was.
They know you don't have an education.
They know that that's all you know, and so they play on that fear, and they tell you you're not gonna make it, and the world is scary.
But I have nothing left to lose.
The the risk of staying there became too great because I was so unhappy that anything has to be better than this.
Anything.
You know, you're so desperate for things to get better.
And it's terrifying.
You have nobody.
When I went on the Internet for the fir this is the first time, I'm like, "Oh, my God, I can't even believe I'm doing this".
You hadn't looked at anything because you were still being a good Scientologist which is: Don't look at anything that's the truth about Scientology, - don't look on websites.
- But as I'm reading, I'm reading these stories, and people are repeating the exact same things I have experienced.
Tonight, a special "Lateline" investigation that raises allegations that the church in Sydney was involved in covering up the sexual assault of an 11-year-old girl.
Scientology is lurching from controversy to the courtroom.
When you hear about it or you see it's happened to someone else.
There is this rage, and that was very emotional for me.
Very emotional.
And then I went to a counselor for the first time.
And this is also "a bad-girl thing," right? Oh, yeah, we would not go to a counselor, no, and I was amazed because when I was in the session, it was the first time I could say something without fear of consequence.
I wasn't gonna be punished.
That's the first time in my life that I had that.
In this counseling session, the counselor then asks me, um, "Would you like to report this to the police?" And I was like, "Can I?" And she said, "Yes," if you want to, you can," and I was like, "I would really, really like to do that".
You had no idea that you could? Up and to that point, I never even considered it.
Right.
I filed that police report in 2012.
And detailed statements have been taken in person.
So everything is on record, and it was assigned to a police investigator in Sydney, which is where the incidents occurred.
And at one stage, I contacted my mother to ask if she would be willing to provide a statement to assist in the case, and she was very uncomfortable with it.
She told me she was actually disappointed in me that I had gone to the police.
I explained to her, like, "This is what I need to do now for me because nothing else has worked".
And she said, "Mirriam, but you know that a Scientologist doesn't sue another Scientologist".
And she was like, "Well, surely there's something else we can do.
We can get him to apologize to you".
I said, "The only thing he can do is walk into a police station and confess to what he's done".
- Right.
- I said, "So, will you give me "an answer: Yes or no? Will you be willing to provide a statement?" And she said, "Well, I need to consult internally within the church".
And the answer was? "I'm not willing to provide a statement for you".
My mother sacrificed her own children.
She has given up her own children for this organization.
I cannot reconcile with that.
I had never asked my mum for anything my entire life.
This was the one thing I needed her to help me with.
The one thing.
And she couldn't do it.
Scientology views the government and affiliated governing bodies as corrupt, so the thought doesn't even cross your mind to report someone.
They say that it's a high crime, a suppressive act, which is, like, the worst thing, and you can get, you know, basically excommunicated for it.
- Oh, okay.
- Yeah.
- How you guys feeling? - Good.
- You feeling okay? - Yeah.
Okay, guys, so let's just stop rolling on this.
It took a lot of balls to do it.
And thank you for letting us be part of it.
I was so touched.
When real law enforcement tells victims that you are in fact victims, and there was nothing right about this, and it wasn't your fault.
Talking to the detectives was scary at first But then it was like a huge weight lifted off me.
Finally, something is being done.
It's what I've always wanted.
You know, my children, what're they gonna think of me in years to come after this all comes out, and I just thought, you know, that they're gonna be proud of me that I didn't just stop and not do anything about it.
And I think as well, it's standing up for myself.
It's saying, "Hey, you are important enough".
Scientology has controlled me my entire life, and I'm just not willing to give them that control anymore, and to anyone that's been in a similar situation to me or has been raised similarly to me, we have to do something.
If we don't do anything, then they'll continue to control us.
I feel like being here is helping me take back my power.
It's helping me feel less helpless and less hopeless.
And me being here, yes, it's a high crime, and, yes, I will be excommunicated, and, yes, I'm gonna lose some people I really considered friends and I dearly love, but speaking my truth speaking my truth now, that's way more important.
Our childhood was really messed up, and there were things that were not okay, and we're not crazy.
Doing this right now is something that I have to do for my inner child.
It's my big hug for her.
And I'm doing what I can for her.
I'm doing what I can for my inner child, who was helpless and not mentored or protected.
And I'm doing this for my friends who are now excommunicated from their own parents and siblings.
This is just about me.
This is for them.
It's heartbreaking to hear these stories, Leah, and see the effect that it has had on people, and their lives.
And people should know this at Scientology who are watching this.
They should know this about me and they should know this about you.
I don't give up.
I'm gonna make a career out of exposing this organization.
It's not gonna continue.
It might not be this year, it might not be next year, but eventually, it's gonna happen.
Right.