Leah Remini: Scientology and the Aftermath (2016) s03e07 Episode Script

- Mike, what church has a book on finances? - Right.
- This is how to extract money.
You have the area cashier.
You have department of income.
"Freeloaders.
" "Collection from SPs.
" - This is what the IRS accepts as non-commercial.
- This is a church.
What they need to say is "we are a business.
" - Actually, they need to go one step further.
We're not just a business.
We're like a collection agency.
- They come to your house unannounced.
They tell you mankind is at stake if you don't give up this, if you don't give up that, and they pound you and pound "Why don't you kick them out of your house? Because you're like, "Well, then they're gonna tell my kid" "not to talk to me, or my mom not to talk to me, "or Scientologists, "so I have to let them in my house.
I have to let them in my job.
" - We talked to people before about policies and practices of Scientology in getting money.
- It's so cutthroat, you you would not believe it.
- But this is a church.
- It's a machine.
- It's a machine, and it's all set up to get maximum money out of you, in and out.
- But never really heard so much of the personal stories of how this impacts people.
- Yeah.
- And the people that we're gonna talk to today are just a small sample of the thousands and thousands who've given millions and millions of dollars, often money they didn't have, to Scientology.
- This is insane.
Tonight, we're talking to Mark and Stephanie Fladd, who were Scientologists for a very short amount of time, but Scientology, in usual fashion, extracted a large chunk of money from you to do Scientology.
- I feel that the Church of Scientology took advantage of me, and they are financial predators.
- I don't believe Scientology is an honest organization.
- Heather Ruggeri, who was a Sea Organization member, and so was her mother, and her mother ended up being taken for $80,000 of inheritance - They are only about accomplishing what they want to accomplish, taking the money that they need to take from people so that they can get their next venture done.
- And Carol Nyburg, who You were are what's called a registrar for Scientology, and so that was your job, to extract the money - Right.
- From people, whether they had it or not.
- Right.
- Yeah, got it.
- There are a lot of promises made by Scientologists You're gonna constantly get better and make more money And that doesn't happen.
- And Tyler Adams, who was also a Sea Org member, who, in fact, lost his eye as a Sea Org member and left the Sea Organization was handed a freeloader bill to add, literally, insult to injury.
- Mm-hmm.
The Church of Scientology cares more about money than, uh, any kind of enlightenment.
Welcome, everyone.
We appreciate you joining us today.
- Thank you.
- Thank you.
- We covered the subject of Scientology and money in our specials and in our show, you know, very kind of clinically, like how Scientology is set up, how there's this bridge, how you have to pay in advance, and it's not, uh, negotiable And the fact that there's, you know, a department of income, which also differs from a real religion in that they have volumes of books on how to extract money from the very rich to the average person.
It doesn't matter.
And people often ask us, "How do people afford Scientology?" How do they afford Scientology, Mike Rinder? - Um, by either joining the Sea Org and not paying or by living a life that is really below what their normal means would be, sacrificing a lot of what is, to normal people in the in the normal world, the normal things that you do in life, uh, for the sake of participating in Scientology.
- Right.
So let's start with Mark and Stephanie.
You guys you were totally sold on Scientology, totally on board? - Totally on board with Scientology.
- And you were told you need to buy a certain amount of Scientology pre-paid.
They sell these things in packages, which is from the bottom, which is called the Purification Rundown, to Clear.
- The Clear package was about $35,000 for my package, was what I was sold on.
- In advance, right? - Right.
- That's the first kind of chunk that a registrar would what what's called "reg" you for.
And are you millionaires? - No.
- Not at all, no.
I didn't even have a credit card that had a high limit on it.
You know, in my case, the registrars actually helped me sign up for credit cards to pay for it.
- And what do they tell you you're gonna get? - Yeah, yeah.
Like, paint the pic You know, 'cause you make it sound nice.
You don't have the money.
You I'm sure you told them you didn't have the money, right? - Yeah.
- So they didn't "help" you to get a credit card.
- It started out - Yeah, let your wife speak.
She maybe you're too nice.
Uh, it started out he went into the Orange County Org, he was there most of the night, he brought two other people back home with him at 10:00 at night to try and convince me to be on board with buying this Clear package.
I was like, "No, we need to think about it.
" "We don't have $35,000 just to hand over.
This is a big decision.
" So they basically came to me and to him daily.
They went to his work.
They would come to our house.
- Unannounced? - Unannounced.
- And I told them it's not okay to show up at my work unannounced.
There was three of them that showed up.
They said, "Well, you know", can we come over to your house?" I'm like, "Yeah, fine, whatever.
" "You can you can come over, 'cause I just don't want you guys at my work.
" - They would make it all sound all pretty.
"You're gonna be so much better off, you're gonna end up making so much more money.
" - They always use that as, like, saying, "We just know, in our experience, "any time people give us money, they get it back in the world.
" - Give us money.
You'll get money, and it's it's a complete disconnect.
- Oh, yeah.
You'll have enough to buy a house, but you will never do that, because you're gonna give us more money.
- Yeah.
- Yes.
- Because even if you make the more money, or do get that more money, that's only so that we can take it.
- Right, right.
- Mm-hmm.
- So you know that you don't have the money.
- Yeah.
Being a supportive wife, I was like, "If he wants to do it", then we can pay course by course," and the director, she was like, "Oh, it's gonna be so much more money.
" I was like, "I understand that", but I'm not forking out $35,000 all at once.
" - And the "so much more money" is because of the discounts that are offered for buying - More, yeah.
- A pack more.
"The more you buy, the cheaper it is," quote unquote.
- Yeah.
They would take him to the org and they would leave me at the house, and they would talk to me at the house and they would talk to him at the org and they did their best to keep us separated so we didn't have to talk about it, and we didn't discuss it and decide not to do it.
They would tell me, "He's so ready to do it.
He wants to do it.
"I know you're such a supportive wife.
He just needs your okay.
" They would tell him, I really thought it was a great idea for him to go, and I think it would be so great for him to do it, so they were playing us by keeping us so separated - Sure.
- That we didn't even have time to discuss it, so we finally just couldn't handle the pressure anymore and we okayed it, and they were the ones that signed us up for the credit cards.
- And you're You're nodding yes.
Is this usual, to take people who don't have the money for Scientology and sign up for Them up for a credit card? - Yeah.
A whole list of, uh, cards to call that are easy to get.
It's, like, quite common for, um, a public Scientologist, such as they were, to give over, to turn over the mother's maiden name, last four of your Social, and all these kind of things so that they can call up and get more.
Uh, it's basically, any way you can get the money is is is fair play, but I thought the worst was going to people's homes unannounced, anytime.
It was your duty to invade people's privacy.
- So you give them the money, the $35,000.
- We finally give them the $35,000.
I look straight at the executive director and I'm like, "Okay, this is all we can do right now.
" "Until he has gone to Clear, I can't afford anything else," and she was like, "Okay, you will not be asked to pay for anything else.
" We turn around, and one week later, they have him sign up as a lifetime Scientologist, which is, like, $5,000.
- The membership fee.
- Yes.
- Uh-huh.
- And then he comes to me and says, "You need to life repair.
" - So this is another Scientology processing.
- Yes.
- Uh-huh.
- And how much How much more money are we talking now? - That was another $7,500, I think.
- So it was $35,000, the $5,000 for the IES membership, and now this.
- $7,500 for that.
- And you gave it, even if you didn't have the money.
- He said, "You're gonna be a suppressive person" if I reach Clear and you haven't done anything.
- And who told you that? - The executive director was coaching me on what to say to my wife in order to convince her to agree to life repair.
- I see.
So basically, he was saying "If you, Mark, reach Clear, "and your wife's down here still, she's gonna hurt your life.
" Yeah.
- Exactly.
We would be too, uh, distant, uh, on the bridge.
- You'd be so far superior to her, spiritually, you'll be so enlightened and so amazing, and your wife would just be the dumb schmuck, just being unknowing, right? - Right.
- Yeah, okay.
- So we had to get her life repaired for that reason.
- Gotta get her moving.
Gotta get her moving.
So you you agree to life repair.
- Yeah.
- Agree to life repair.
- The only reason I agreed is because he basically said, "If you don't do life repair, we're gonna have to get a divorce.
" - He basically said, "If you don't do life repair, we're gonna have to get a divorce" Which means separating us and our kids.
- How old were your kids at this point? - At this point, they were eight and four.
Basically, after he told me I had to, we went in.
They do all those questions and stuff.
I couldn't do it.
It was I was crying leaving, because I felt like I was being forced to do this so that I could keep my family together, and I just never went back.
- We've all been there.
There's no judgment here.
- Okay.
- Mark, you were still on the bridge.
- Yes, so I got through the Purification Rundown.
I I did complete that, and I got onto the What's called the Survival Rundown, which is the next step on the bridge, and I was on that for a few months.
"I was told, " Oh, it's only gonna take six months "to to go to Clear, starting on the Purification Rundown.
" I was maybe four months into it and I'm not even halfway through the Survival Rundown.
I just realized it's not going the way that they told me it was gonna go.
I ended up going off the Survival Rundown.
- And you decide, "That's it.
We're done.
" We don't want to be part of this organization"? - Yeah.
- Okay.
And then try to get your money back, right? 'Cause you're not gonna do it, right? - Um, I actually sent a letter to the executive director, um, asking for a refund.
Actually, we didn't get a response to that letter, and so we went in to the org and tried to get a refund.
- Well well, technically, in Scientology, it's called a repayment, and I know that this is an odd distinction, but you are actually asking for money to be returned to you for things that you have not done - Yeah.
- Like, that you have paid in advance for - As opposed to a refund - Which is different than asking for money back for something that you already did.
- Right, and I was fine, you know, for the courses I had taken.
I was fine paying for that.
- You were fine paying for that, of course.
- I just wanted a a repayment on what I had not taken yet, which was, you know, the majority of that money.
- We went in - You did more than just write a letter, I assume.
- We went in, we tried to get our money back, and they said as soon as we leave, we wouldn't be able to ever get our money back.
- And as a result? - And as a result, we left, and we've never gotten our money back.
- I was told, though, as I was leaving the org, by the registrar that, you know, I can use the money in my next lifetime.
- Shut Oh.
I ca That's ridiculous.
- I want you to just seriously Okay, ser it's just me and you talking now.
- Yeah.
- A person looked at you and said, literally, "You can use this money in your next lifetime"? - Yes.
- And your reaction? - You know, I had not been through any of those courses that taught that issue, or that that topic.
- You hadn't gained that, um - That, um - Certainty.
- That that ability yet to return with your name and, uh, report back to Scientology? - Right, right, I I hadn't had that in phenomena, uh, so, um, I-I thought it was a little nuts that she said that, but that was kind of her justification that we're not getting our money back.
"Well, you know, in your next lifetime, "you can come back and use that money.
It'll still be there for you.
" - You know, Mike - That is actually the most bizarre one I've heard.
- But Mike, here's the thing.
I mean, we do know that they do have a policy.
I mean, L.
Ron Hubbard wrote - Sure.
- Yeah.
- On the clear cognition, or whatever, there's a policy that says, you know, you should be able to have the ability to walk in, say the person's name, go find their folder from another lifetime.
- They've put out issues about Sea Org members that say they have a 21-year leave of absence - When they die.
21-year leave of absence.
- And that their folders are to be stored and kept in safekeeping for their return.
- So we I mean, we've read that.
Uh, I mean, I don't I just never heard anybody actually say it.
- Well, I've never heard anybody justify it as to "We're not giving your money back/" "We're gon doing you a favor so you can save it up for next lifetime.
" - That is wow.
Okay, so all joking aside, you guys had to sell your house.
This wasn't something that was like, "Oh, we just had $50,000 laying around.
It's cool that we lost it.
" - Right, yeah.
So I have a house, a mortgage, bills, and on top of that, I'm trying to pay off these high-interest credit cards, which are the debt from the org, and that just kind of snowballed uh, into a situation where I did have to sell my house so that I I could get the money out of the house to pay off the credit cards.
- And then you guys had to move to a different state altogether, right? Because of the cost of living.
- Yes.
- I mean, I wanted to try to recoup some of the financial losses, but I also wanted to get my children out of the area where they could be brought into Scientology when they become of age.
I didn't want them to be around that and have to go through what I went through.
- Amazing.
I think it's, uh, really quite a loving gesture towards your children to think about not wanting your kids to be in an environment where they could be found by Scientology, or even other Scientologists' children, and then get indoctrinated somehow that way.
- And I can assure you that everything that you have explained to us and Carol and Heather These guys will all confirm that this is standard operating procedure, dictated by policy of L.
Ron Hubbard.
- This goes on with With people like you, it goes on with people like her and the Sea Org, people like it doesn't matter, because you learn.
You go, "Well, I can't afford it.
Why would I be in debt to my religion?" - You think you're gonna buy spiritual freedom.
- Right.
- But you're not.
- In my opinion, the Church of Scientology is a real estate con masquerading as a religion.
- It proposes to be about spirituality, but it's not.
- They focus more on getting the money out of their parishioners than they do actually helping them.
- Now, Heather, tell us a little bit about your story.
You and your mom were in the Sea Org.
- Yes, we were in the Sea Org.
I was in 24 1/2 years.
My mom was in for 25 years.
- So while your mom was in the Sea Org, she got an inheritance.
- Yes.
- And and just to set this up, Sea Org members don't usually have any money.
- Correct.
- Right? I mean, is that true? - Yeah, yeah, not even a little bit.
I think it paid for eight months at one point, just at all.
It just nothing.
- And then, when you do get paid, it's what? - It can be nothing - $50 a week at best.
- Or up to $50 a week.
- Tax is taken out of that.
- But don't forget, also, that as a Sea Org member, you have no IRA.
Your Social Security payments that are deducted from your check is like 30¢ a week, and it's why so many elderly people remain in the Sea Org Because now they can't work, they're too old to get a job, they don't have any money that they have accumulated, and they don't even have any retirement income or anything there for the 50 years of work that they've been doing.
- Right.
- So the only money that your mother ever really saw was this inheritance from her non-Scientology mother? - Correct, yes.
- So this amount gets given to your mom while she's in the Sea Org.
This must feel like I mean, you could eat, you could maybe buy s A towel or soap.
Yeah, I mean, no.
I mean it Listen, when I was in the Sea Org for the short amount of time that I was there, I mean, I was stealing things like food.
- Mm-hmm.
- Right.
- I was stealing things like a bar of soap, you know, because these things were not really allocated to us.
- You don't have them readily there.
- Yeah, these are luxuries.
These are luxuries.
- S-so how did they get the money from her? - So they basically coerced her and told her that if she did not give this money, about $77,000, then you're going against what's the greatest good.
- So they told your mom "If you don't give us this $77,000, you'll be hurting mankind"? Where was that money going to that that Scientology wanted it so bad? - At that time, it was going towards projects, I believe, they were doing around the eastern United States with organizations they were trying to purchase.
- And they needed your mother's money to do so? - Yes.
Yes, it was - A billion-dollar organization needs your your Sea Org member mother's money? - Yeah, I mean, and she was told that you don't really need this money.
Put it towards - Something good.
- What we're doing, yes.
Towards what we're doing here in the Sea Organization.
But the way that it was done was insane.
She had that money in an annuity, and she had to withdraw it early.
- But that also comes with tax implications.
- Wow.
- Yes, so then the IRS was sending notices that she had to pay this money and her wa or her wages were gonna be garnished for the taxes, and those notices never arrived to her.
So after 25 years, she leaves the Sea Organization Not with me, just on her own She gets a job, and then suddenly, she's told that her wages are gonna be garnished because she didn't get these notices earlier from the IRS, so the little money that she started making - Yeah, was being taken away from her.
- Was being taken away from her.
At that point, I was very riddled with, like, "Do I stay or do I go with her, "because she's my mom and I need to be with her?" so I made the decision myself to escape as well, and she is basically now faced with She has to work the rest of her life, and now she's 71, still working.
- Did she try to get her money back? - We have sent letters.
She was It was responded to once, in 2012, said, "Thank you for your letter.
" "As your per your request, "your membership to the IAS has been canceled, "but we are not gonna refund your money, because it's a donation.
" Because she's still trying to get that money, that's why I'm here.
I'm representing her.
- Your mother's not here because she believes that her only hope is not appearing on a show like this? To get her money back? - Not the Just that it would mess up the chances of her getting it back.
- Does she think she has a chance now? - I don't know.
She's hopeful.
- Yeah.
- You know? - That's what's so sad.
- Yeah, right.
- I I mean, it really is.
- Is that your mother still believes in some process, yeah.
- It's sad that that That in this circumstance, that your mother is still looking for the good.
Leah and I we have people contact us all the time with these sort of circumstances, and they're afraid to say anything, because they think that if they say something, it is gonna be the straw that breaks the camel's back, that will forever prevent them from getting their family back, or their money back, or whatever.
- Yes.
- I wish there was some reason for her to have hope about this.
- Right.
- There isn't.
- To me, it's completely criminal that she has to be going through this.
You know? - Yes, after she served Scientology for so many years, received nothing for it.
- Right.
- You've received nothing for it.
- I mean, it's It's my burden now, that I 'cause I'm her daughter, and I am I should be helping to take care of her.
My burden is with my no high school education, get somewhere in life to make enough money so I can help her so she can retire, because I don't want to see that.
It's not right.
No husband anymore, 'cause he stayed, you know? No daughter my sister.
- She stayed? - She stayed, you know, so - And you have no connection? - No.
- The Church of Scientology will go to great lengths to get you to pay up.
There's practically no limits.
- They don't care about whether the person has the money or not.
- Your situation is used against you for paying more money.
- They took our money and made it out that they were going to be helping us, and really, they just threw us aside.
- Looking back on it, isn't it It's we're still going through this, where we go, "I cannot believe" "this is something I gave my life to, and look how the destruction of" not just financially, right, but it's like your whole Your mom's life was taken - Right, right.
- By this thing.
- And now your whole family's destroyed over it.
- Yeah.
- You're a mom.
Could you imagine doing this to your daughter? - No.
I mean My daughter means the world to me, and my family that I've gained now through my husband ha-has been a support system that's unbelievable.
To look back at that, I don't understand it.
It makes no sense to me, and it's just pure insanity.
That's why I have done everything to make sure I'm there for her and I raise her right She deserves that.
- Of course, but that's not Scientology.
- No, it is not.
It is so far removed.
- Okay, so let's talk about when you you were in the Sea Org.
- Yeah, yeah, I joined straight from 18 uh, after being educated in Scientology schools.
- How did you lose your eye? - Demolitions, within the first month of being in the Sea Org.
Uh, we were building new living spaces in the big blue building on, uh, Fountain, on - In Hollywood.
- In Hollywood.
Um, it was on the sixth floor.
It was the main section of the building where the elevators are.
We got a couple of crates of hammers and gloves for 200 people, dim string lights to light the area as, you know, the electrical was disconnected.
We're not just, like, chipping away at things.
No, we're throwing ourselves into the walls, ripping out the ceilings by hand.
We did not have the tools.
We were yanking everything apart by hand, 'cause we gotta get it done.
- Right.
- So, uh, some of my friends at the time yanking apart a track-and-stud wall that had some copper pipe in it.
You know, happened like that.
It was just wrong place, wrong time.
Screamed really loud.
Um I so it yeah, sorry.
I got kind of lost in the moment, but, um - No, it's all right.
- It wasn't It's not just the eye.
I went to the doctor or the hospital for stitches or something or another every six months.
Um, I tore open my hand, I got a nice scar along my leg from a saw that was dropped on me by by another worker.
- So, like, you're saying all these injuries How did these injuries happen? I mean, were you You don't know how to work a saw, do you? Did you go to school for that? Safety? - I didn't go to school for that, no.
I-I I was given a manual and I yeah.
- But you're you're told from a right from the beginning that you've done everything already, sometime on your time track.
- Before, in another lifetime.
- Yes, another lifetime.
- Yeah, you just gotta remember how to do it.
- You know how to do it.
- You've run planets before.
- Right.
- Yeah, yeah.
Or blown them up.
Whatever the case may be.
- Yeah, sure, sure.
- So you're you're - So you can really do it.
You just - Yeah, yeah.
You just need to remember.
- Yeah.
- And, you know, we should set out for people that these are children - Oh, yeah.
- These are people like you.
- Anybody.
- You guys work, you know, 8:00 in the morning till midnight, sometimes all-nighters - You know, on top of just sort of the general lack of reasonable training, you know, there's no real safety equipment.
The safety glasses that were available were all scratched up, unable to be seen through in low light, you know, dust everywhere.
If I was wearing safety glasses, we might be having a different conversation right now.
- Right, and that That, by the way That was happening when Mike was in the Sea Org - Yep.
- As a child.
It would happen when I was in the Sea Org.
I mean, all of us kids were had no gloves, no nothing.
Nothing, nothing.
He represents, and they represent, thousands.
- Yeah, absolutely.
- I mean, they represent And and current children in the Sea Org, and not just children.
Adults.
- I just want to comment about, you know, you'd think, in any situation like that, or anything close, we would call 911.
We wouldn't even think about it.
Somebody probably, we'd all take our phones and start calling 911.
But nobody in that situation would, because we would think, "Oh, we'd have to We have to get permission.
" - So again, nobody called, um, so after getting bandaged up, I was, you know, taken to the emergency room.
I got a security guard.
I got three people in black-and-gray uniforms.
I'm wearing black and gray.
"What were you doing demolishing a building at 9:30 at night?" - Did they prep you before you left? - Before the interview, I was just told, "Yeah, don't Don't cause a flap.
" - I've seen this many times.
The person who was actually being admitted just sits there and the handlers take care of everything to avoid creating the idea that there was some irresponsible or inappropriate activity happening on behalf of the organization.
It was the person who was doing something that was inappropriate or wrong.
- Yeah, so, I mean, I didn't even have a conversation with a medical professional until, like, I'm on the table, or the next day.
- But after this eye accident Let me just be clear, you went back on this labor camp? - Yeah, as soon as I wasn't actively needing to irrigate my eye every day, actively needing to wear a bandage, I was back to work, you know, rewiring the building.
- Back in the Sea Org? - Yeah, you know, raised to be a true believer, you keep going.
- And what about your Your mom and your da Like, where are you parents at this point? Are they, like - My mom is a big part of the reason why I ended up getting out, as she ended up being diagnosed with cancer, uh, after I lost my eye.
Uh, long story short, I had to ask permission to go visit her, and I was able to do that with with a handler.
Then, uh, later, as time went on, um, she had to start an experimental treatment, so I wrote up another request.
"I'd like to see my mom again, you know? "I might not be able to see her again for too much longer," and that request was denied, so, um, uh, one day, I just left out one of the The, uh back doors of the parking structure opposite of the The blue building.
I just left and beelined for the train station and then, from there, I was able to contact my mom, uh, and arrange a meeting and even then, just hanging out, having some quality family time, security rolls up, and it's like, "Hey", it's time to come back.
" I was, uh I was threatened with, uh, being kicked out, and I called them on it.
It's like, I'm I'm not having a good time here.
Look, I I want to go.
I'm out.
- And then were you handed a freeloader's debt from this? - Yep, yeah.
It was because of the coursework I'd done as a regular Sea Org member that they then bill for.
The stuff that I needed to do in order to do my job that they were assigning me, so they were charging me for the training that they gave me that was job-specific.
After all this on routing out, I have to sign a stack of affidavits about how, uh, I acknowledge that everything that happened that was bad to me was not - Was your fault.
- Was was my fault, ex more or less.
- Right.
- And then a bill, first thing, pay off this freeloader debt, and it was about $40,000.
- Oh, my gosh.
- So you gave them your life, you gave them your eye, you couldn't see your mom - They took my eye.
Mm-hmm.
- And they go, "Hey", "okay, get out, but by the way, "before you go, we have a gift, and that's a bill for $40,000.
" - Yeah.
Oh, and I'm not allowed to stay in Los Angeles.
I had to go to Boston.
- You're not allowed to live in Los Angeles? - Yeah.
- 'Cause you you would infect the group? - I would infect the group - With truth.
- Or get close to my mom, or whatever the case may be, so I had to go stay with my dad at first.
I made a couple payments of, like, 100 bucks here and there, but it after that, um, it got to the point where I just stopped taking calls.
- And is this usual? I mean, is this usual for registrars to be calling people trying to get this Extract this freeloader's debt? I mean - Oh, absolutely.
Yeah.
- And what is the purpose of their paying it? - And you can be in good standing and you can come onto the base.
- You could talk to your family and friend? - Mm-hmm.
- That that feeds into it.
- But the field staff member who was Tried to get the money Him to pay it gets a commission - Mm-hmm.
- On that money.
- Yeah.
- So again, I don't know what organization calling itself a church has departments of sales teams - Most businesses don't have that.
- You worked in a sales department even going every - Every day on the base.
- Every day you woke up, that was your job, right? - That's right.
Yeah.
Oh, yeah.
- You worked with the The kings and queens of extracting money from Scientologists.
- And what was your understanding about how to extract money from parishioners? - Well, for one thing, you definitely are taught not to take no for an answer.
I would call people and call people and call people over and over and over again, and the other thing was you were taught they have the money.
They have the money.
Don't let them tell you that they don't.
They have it, and you have to go and get it.
- It was your duty to invade somebody's privacy for their own good.
- There is a policy letter that specifically says that registrars must be people that can control people.
They will get in their face and you hear lots of stories about these registrars that do outrageous things and say outrageous things to people, and that comes from that fundamental belief that this is the right way of going about it.
- Yeah, the key word is "ruthless" and "never give up.
" I mean, they don't care what duress they're putting you under.
What happens i You know, the regs will go to your house unannounced, you know, as you have experienced, and they d they don't leave.
It's not like, "Oh, it's 11:00.
"Boy, we really overstayed.
"I'm really sorry.
I gotta go now.
Sorry!" - Yeah, but for people at home, why don't people kick you out? - Well, fear is one of the biggest reasons.
If they start complaining about you, then they're routed to Ethics right away.
- So basically, what you're saying is the parishioner gets in trouble if they complain about you showing up to their house.
- Right.
- They don't want to get a report written on them.
- They're getting reported to the The department of Scientology that is, like, for bad people.
That's called Ethics.
Like, people have written reports on me, even, saying Leah's not giving a certain amount more more money when she could give the money.
- Yeah.
- So now, you're in Ethics trouble, so you get go to the Ethics officer, and guess how you can get out of there quick? - By buying a book package.
- By paying, yes.
- Right, by paying some money to Scientology.
They don't say, "Go volunteer", go do something good for the environment.
" - No, it's "buy more books.
" - They say, "Buy another book package.
" And also, what we're not saying is that all registrars There's a "Thursday before 2:00" statistic - Oh, yes.
- And so you're Every Scientology organization is run on "get money before Thursday" before 2:00.
" That's what you will find in Is rooms of literally salesmen.
That's all they do, all day, all night.
- Every Wednesday, it was a given, you knew that you would not sleep that night.
- And then, average, as a registrar, what are their quotas? Like - $200,000? Yeah.
- Well, they're like $250,000 a week.
- Yeah, a week.
- A week.
- For a person.
- Yes.
- One.
- And how many regs are - And they've got a dozen sitting there with support staff - Oh, yeah.
They have support staff that go get the people - Running around grabbing people or finding phone numbers or tracking people down for them to come in for the close.
This is high-pressure, high-intensity sales.
- There were things that I would do that I never thought in my wildest dreams I would ever do because reprimands were not pleasant.
- How much money do you think you made for Scientology? - Well, I know I was It was, like, $2 million or $3 million a year.
- So over how many years? - Well, I was a reg for 12 years.
- $20 million? - Has to be.
- E-easily.
Easily 20 - To be honest, I never thought about it, but yeah, I'm sure it was at least that.
- And ultimately, you reached the point where you just couldn't carry on.
- Yeah.
Well, it was, uh, after the basics.
I was a registrar.
I was pretty good at what I did.
I-I did it consistently and my my stats were normally up, so I-I had it down, you know? Um, and then they said, "No, you have to have a quota for books.
" - That's what they were doing to everybody.
They were doing it to every - Yes! - You know, people who were counseling me were were selling me ten books packages I bought.
- Even people that were in the management, which was where I was at.
- Yeah, everybody.
After, you know, 11:00 at night, then I'd start on my basics, because I-I couldn't really do it during the day, and I'd have a a senior person sitting there, watching me call over the All over the world till 4:00 in the morning, and this was pretty much the whole last year I was there.
- Right.
- The whole thing was so Too much.
I just said one day And I had just turned 61 years old And I said, "If I don't do it now, I'll never leave," so I came up with a plan.
I came in early on a bus and I walked up to Enterprise Rent-A-Car.
I rented a car, I got the Scientology discount, 'cause we had an account there, hid it in a garage downtown, went about my business the rest of the day.
Then the next two, three days, I took the bus in with a tote bag and put as much stuff into it as I could each day, threw it into the trunk, and made a decision to leave that Thursday, and at the end of the day, 'cause our week ends at 2:00, you know, as we've already talked about, got in the car, and I made a U-turn and headed north and the first thing I did and I always cry when I tell this story But I just went to a restaurant to say whatever I wanted.
- Yeah.
- And that's what I did.
- Mm-hmm.
- And then Then I went to a Holiday Inn Express a couple towns up and I just, you know, slept, and then my mom helped me take a Greyhound bus cross-country.
So I got to my mom's house, and, um, she was amazing.
All I did was sleep, turn on the television, sleep, turn on the television.
I was 'cause, you know, you didn't watch television all those years.
26 years I was there, no television, and, I mean, it was like coming out of a time warp.
By the time I was all routed out, it was November, so December, Christmas, I said, "I want to have Christmas" "with my kids," who grew up in Scientology.
- Let me just get this straight.
Because even though you left the Sea Org, you had gone back - Back I went back.
- Because if you wanted a connection to your family, your Scientology family, you had to do it the way Scientology wants you to do it, which is called "routing out.
" - And I went back and routed out standardly, so I wouldn't be declared, and they wanted me to buy basic book packages, and I said, "Well, I don't have any money.
" They said, "Call all your credit cards and get your limits raised," and and I ended up spending about $10,000 Money I did not have.
Which, when I finally got home, I ended up going bankrupt, because how could I not? You know, I was trying to get a job - And also, you're trying to stay connected to your family.
- Yeah.
My daughter, um She and my son came to visit me for Christmas, and my daughter and I kind of made a plan.
I said, "Why don't you move out here to California?" "We'll live together.
We'll create a life.
We'll figure something out.
Let's we'll do something.
" She goes back to Florida after Christmas, and she met the guy she married that had been a lifetime Scientologist like her.
- But they wanted you back in, paying for Scientology - Right.
- And you basically just said, "I want nothing to do with this.
" - But my daughter and I had an agreement, at least, that we were you know, she was "I don't really care, Mom.
" You know, I just we're close.
We talked on the phone every day, and then I was talking to her on the phone one day, and she said, "Hold on, Mom," and somebody came up to her while I was on the phone, and she came back and said, "Oh, they want me to go to the Ethics office tonight at 8:00.
" "Oh, okay.
" Well, what they did is they pulled her in to tell her that I had been declared.
- So why had you been declared an enemy? - I never found out.
Still, this day - So to this day, you still do not know what you did.
- No.
I ca I called to go "Hello?" "I mean, I never found out what's going on.
Could you tell me?" and the more and more and more I tried to handle this, I got so violently ill, and I said, "You know, I'm trying "to hook back up with a serpent here, I'm trying to With the devil.
" I said, "I can't do this.
" I don't want to be back in good standing.
" I mean, I wanted my daughter, but why did I want to do that? I was killing me.
I really felt like it was killing me.
- I understand.
- And my daughter I thought that she might come to her senses, but she basically did not.
- And since then, you've had a granddaughter? A grandchild? - Two.
I don't know them, and I I'm just gonna say it right here.
I refuse to look at her Facebook page, 'cause it's just too painful.
- I understand.
- I do want to say that I have a son - Yeah.
- And his father told him not to talk to me anymore, and he told him, "That's not gonna happen, 'cause she's my mom.
" - Thank God for him.
- Yeah.
- We can only hope that your daughter will come around.
- I can't I have to hope that, but I got married uh, about a year and a half ago.
My husband has five grandchildren and I get to enjoy them all the time.
It's really wonderful.
- It's okay.
It's okay.
- Thank you.
- I'm sorry.
I'm sorry.
- Thank you.
- I know it's hard.
Thank you.
Ow.
Thank you.
Yeah.
No, I know it's - So much.
- Yeah.
- Really, give my love to your mom.
Give my love to her.
- I hope your daughter comes around.
- I hope so.
- Okay.
- Okay.
- Thank you guys.
- Bye.
- Thank you.
- Bye, you guys.