The Dead Files (2011) s08e01 Episode Script
Toys for the Dead - Butte, Montana
Why are there so many dead bodies laying around here? When I'm working, it pushed me pretty good.
He's a slapper, a pincher, a hitter.
Oh, my God.
Out of Butte's beautiful history, this is the black mark.
What is wrong with this [bleep.]
place? I think there is something very bad here.
There's problems, big problems.
A bunch of perverted freaks.
There's a dark presence.
My name is Amy Allan.
These things, they're freaking out.
They're from hell.
I see dead people.
They were being hunted.
I speak to dead people.
They were setting people on fire, burning them alive.
And they speak to me.
Her neck got broken.
But there's only one way to know if my findings are real.
I hear a gunshot.
I rely on my partner.
I'm Steve Di Schiavi.
I'm a retired New York City homicide detective.
Something's not right here.
And I know every person, every house has secrets.
It's not safe here.
It's my job to reveal them.
Are any of them buried on the property? They're all buried here.
But Steve and I never speak We never communicate during an investigation.
Until the very end I can't do it no more.
When we uncover if it's safe for you to stay Holy [bleep.]
look at this.
Or time to get out.
It does not have a happy ending.
Something kills people here.
I'm out here in Butte.
It's an old mining town in southwest Montana.
I got a call from a woman named Ginny who sounded real shaken up.
A close friend brought an old brothel called the Dumas and restored it into a museum.
Now, she works there, and she says that paranormal activity has gotten violent and out of control.
She doesn't think it's safe to be there, but she says her friend has become obsessed and won't leave.
I hope Amy and I can help her out.
Before Amy arrives, I clear the area of anything that might influence her findings.
This is a large space with a lot of artwork and historical items that need to be removed.
When I'm finished, the location will be ready for tonight's walk.
Oh, boy.
I walked in the door, and I heard, "Get her out of here.
" And the one who said, "Get her out of here," is a male.
I feel like he was an owner.
He looks like he's from pretty far back, but his presence is very here.
I think he kind of had his hand in a lot of illegal things, like I do see prostitutes around him.
I'm hearing "whore".
So, Ginny, I'm glad I'm here.
When we spoke on the phone, you sounded really concerned for your friend, Michael.
Yes, Michael is my best friend, and he bought this brothel about three years ago.
And he's become pretty obsessed with the place.
Okay.
Now, he runs it as a museum, you mentioned? Yes.
It's a piece of Butte's history.
It was built in 1890 as a brothel.
Okay.
It ran for 92 years illegally, and the sheriff shut it down in 1982.
Wow, okay.
So, it ran for a long time.
It did.
They were gonna knock this down.
So, he saved it from the wrecking ball.
He did.
Okay, now, what is it that you do here? I do history tours.
Okay.
Now, everybody's having paranormal experiences here, - or is it just Michael? - Everybody.
People are hearing footsteps, seeing apparitions, and now things are getting violent.
Michael's had some experiences here that I'm really concerned about.
He has been pushed by something he cannot see.
His whole demeanor changes being in here.
He gets all OCD.
He just, like, gets really uptight about things in here.
You get him outside those doors, he's a whole different guy.
It's a concern.
It's a concern.
Wow.
What do you think is going on in this place? I think there's some angry spirits in here, possibly demonic, and I don't think it likes Michael.
Okay.
There are quite a few dead people here.
They are very physical towards the living.
Beating them, molesting them, um influencing them.
How would they be influenced? I think it might change their behaviors and thought process, and they might become, you know, depressed, anxious.
Do weird [bleep.]
that they don't normally do.
You know, that would be really bad.
This place is obviously creepy, but why'd you bring me down here? Because I've had a few scary experiences down here.
Okay, like what? I'll be doing a tour with some folks, and I see shadows.
They're all over down here.
You can see out of your peripheral vision, they just run by you really, really fast.
Are you sure it's not people on the tour playing games with the lights or something? No, it's happened when I've been down here by myself.
Okay.
So, anything else? I've had scratching and bruising when I've left here from my tours.
One night, I literally had a scratch down the middle of my back.
Not one, not two, but three down the middle of my back, and they burned.
I've had bruises on my arms that look like fingerprints, and I have no idea where they came from.
I know you called us for Michael, but I think you need help just as bad as he does.
I think there is something very bad here.
I don't know what it is.
Hopefully, Amy can help us with that.
Okay.
The dead here are very capable of interacting with the living.
It's, like, very direct.
Oh, there's so much.
Oh, my gosh.
The land owner guy, he likes to keep people out of here.
Here he smothers the [bleep.]
out of people.
God, I feel like I'm being punched in the stomach.
It's horrible, like, it's awful.
So, sure as [bleep.]
, if people are down here, there's problems.
Big problems.
It's good to finally meet you.
I've spoken with Ginny.
She's very concerned about you.
She used the word "obsessed" to describe how you feel about this place.
- Would you agree with that? - Yeah.
Sometimes, it's kind of like a time warp.
I might come here and plan to be here until midnight, and then it's 5:00 A.
M.
I mean, maybe it's me, I don't know, but you seem a little bit on edge to me.
If I met you at a bar down the block, do you think your demeanor would be different? Yeah, I feel very anxious sometimes in here.
I don't know what it is.
What does this building mean to you? It's such an important landmark place.
It needs to be saved.
I don't look at it as being an owner.
To me, it's more of kind of stewardship.
It doesn't belong to me, as much as it belongs to Montana and Butte.
So, do you feel that you have an obligation to this building? Mm-hmm.
- You do? - Yeah.
That's interesting.
Ginny mentioned that it's gotten pretty violent.
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
Here and to you in particular.
What happened? She and I were in here one night working.
I was pushed kind of like a more in the face, it felt like, but it pushed me pretty good.
She was right behind me, and she just said, "What the [bleep.]
was that?" And then I think nine out of ten people would have packed up and [bleep.]
got out of here, put it up for sale, to be honest with you.
Yeah, yeah.
Why don't you just give this place up? I'm very attached to it.
Unexplainably.
The land owner is mean.
He's a slapper, a pincher, a hitter.
If somebody he doesn't like is around, he'll do it to them.
Do you know if people might see this guy? I think that they see a dark mist.
Oh, boy.
This is not good.
This place is not healthy for living people.
Now, Ginny called us in 'cause she was worried about Michael.
He's your partner.
How long you two guys been together? We've been together for eight years.
Okay, and you guys owned this place for three.
Yes.
So you know him pretty well.
How concerned are you for Mike? I do have a pretty strong concern for him.
His mood swings are really bad since we bought it.
I've noticed he's more obsessive-compulsive, agitated.
A lot of times, that anger gets taken out on me.
Wow.
What do they say, you take out stuff on the ones you love? Yeah.
I've talked to Ginny.
I've talked to Michael.
People are having experiences here.
Now, what about yourself? I was in one of the rooms, and all of a sudden, I felt this really warm hand on my shoulder.
And then moments after I felt the hand, along with the hand, there was this really warm breath going across my neck.
Would you say it was a man or a woman's hand that touched you? I would definitely say it was a woman's.
It was a lot more intimate, almost sensual in a way.
You mean like a woman coming onto you? Yeah.
There's a female who's very sexual.
What does she do? She's hands-on.
I think she likes younger men.
If she finds somebody attractive, she'll do stuff.
She's physical that way.
Travis, let me ask you a question about the tours you do here.
Have you had any complaints about anything? From the customers that have come through? I've heard a wide variety of different things.
People getting pinched, their hair tugged repeatedly.
I've even seen people go running out the door.
They get nauseated.
I've even seen a couple of them, you know, throw up.
Now, obviously, you believe that there's something supernatural here.
Oh, without a doubt.
I think there's numerous spirits here.
Oh, oh.
Oh, boy.
I don't like I don't like upstairs.
Lots of anxiety up here.
Lots of anxiety, lots of stress.
Like, it's it's kind of making me sick.
It's like making my stomach upset.
I feel nauseous.
Ooh.
My goodness.
Oh, my.
Really, really, really bad.
Mm.
So, Ron, I understand that you've done some work in the building restoring it.
- Yes.
- Okay.
Quite a bit.
Have you had any experiences that you can't explain? When I was working here, I got the sense that I was gonna get killed.
An evil presence, like, telling me get out of here.
Really? Has anything else happened to you? My tools would end up missing, and then I started getting really scared.
The hair on the back of my neck come up.
And nobody's here messing with you? No.
And you still come down here.
I won't come down no more by myself.
- You don't? - Nope.
Now, Ron, you don't strike me as the type of guy that scares too easy.
Not too easy.
I was a boxer and hard brick layer, a concrete man.
I'm not scared of much.
But this place seems to spook you out.
Yes, it's it's dangerous down here.
I honestly believe that.
Okay.
And then there's another lady.
She likes to torture people, but she is one to move things.
Open and close doors, move objects, [bleep.]
like that.
Can you describe her? Her skin is like tree bark, and her arms are twisted like the roots of a tree.
But it's so weird how each of these dead people has very specific, physical things that they do with the living.
It's almost like they've had a dialogue, and they're, like, "Well, I do this, so don't you dare.
" What would all this mean for the living here? They would be, you know, toys for the dead people.
Look, it doesn't take a homicide detective to figure out what my first move is here, especially since Michael and Travis's building used to be a brothel.
I'm heading back to the Dumas to meet with a local historian who said life there was everything you would expect and worse.
Let's start from the beginning.
Who built this building and when? The building was actually built by Arthur and Joseph Nadeau.
This is a photograph of Joseph.
The brothers built this building in 1890, and they also built other red-light properties here in the district.
So, these guys were pretty smart businessmen.
They were very well-educated brothers, yes, and they were very wealthy.
Okay.
But the Nadeau brothers apparently kind of separated.
We really don't know why.
And Joseph stayed around and ran the business.
Okay.
So, now, what about Joseph? Whatever happened to him? Well, Joseph died in 1925 here in Butte.
Okay, now, how old was Joe when he died? He was 77.
This guy, he's gonna cause some [bleep.]
problems.
I've seen a lot of dead people in this place, but my biggest concern is the land owner who attacks the living, and I'm trying to get a look into who he was in life.
He's super negative and extremely greedy.
Like, disgustingly greedy.
Do you know what his connection here might be? I think he might have owned the land and potentially built this building.
Can you describe him more? He's very well educated and wealthy.
White hair, pal skin, and I heard 1900 and 1901 for him.
There was a lot of movement in here, a lot of traffic, which benefited him with what he did.
He is really nasty.
The Nadeau brothers opened this place as a very high-end brothel.
Okay.
Very exclusive clients would come here and spend as much as $1,000 a night on entertainment.
So, the girls who worked here were pretty high-end? They were very, very high-end girls.
They were supposedly very, very beautiful.
You know, Ellen, I was down in that basement yesterday, and I got to be honest with you.
It didn't look too high end to me.
Yeah, it wasn't too high end.
You know, here's what happened.
The copper kings left Butte in 1900, and so the business had to adjust.
The upper floor catered to the upper class.
The ground floor catered to more of a business class, and the basement catered to the miners and the laborers.
So, I got to imagine, just looking at that basement, the conditions had to be really bad for these girls.
It probably wasn't a pleasant place to work, and the women charged and maybe would service The mines operated 24 hours a day, and so did the women.
These miners had to be rough customers.
It was a really dangerous undertaking.
There was violence.
There was addiction.
Alcohol, laudanum, opium.
There was the danger of pregnancy.
- It was a dangerous business.
- Right.
- There's no question about that.
- Wow.
Nothing is legitimate.
They all have perversions.
They're dirty, and they're angry, so a bunch of perverted freaks.
I feel like there was a lot of drugs and alcohol.
Like opium, like hash, like marijuana, cocaine.
I see a lot of, like, people laying down here.
Like, just laying around.
How many? A lot.
I did hear mining.
Are you [bleep.]
kidding me? I'm trying not to be negative, but it's kind of impossible here because this is not a good place.
This is a cycle.
This is a cycle.
What? Anybody who rents maybe or buys this place is not on the up-and-up.
I'm, like, what is wrong with this [bleep.]
place? If you need us to investigate unexplained activity in your home, go to the "Dead Files" page at travelchannel.
com.
Click on "Help me, Dead Files!" to submit your story, and we'll help if we can.
So far, I've got clients who've been physically assaulted on a property that used to be ground zero for sex and violence.
But I need to see if there's anything else.
Digging through the archives, I find a woman named Gertrude Pitkanen.
Turns out, she was charged with three counts of manslaughter after performing illegal abortions in Butte's red-light district.
So, I made some calls, and it turns out, it's very likely that prostitutes from the Dumas ended up going to this illegal abortion doctor.
I'm heading over to meet with a local professor who says that this case takes an even darker and more horrifying twist.
So, what can you tell me about this woman? Her name was Gertrude Pitkanen.
Locals called her Gertie.
She ran a back-alley abortion clinic.
Now, would she have ever done abortions at the Dumas? Sure, absolutely.
Ladies that worked at the Dumas Brothel, they got pregnant, they didn't have a lot of options.
If you were pregnant, and you were showing, you were out of business.
But one of their best options was Gertie.
- I read she got charged three times.
- Yes.
- What was the story behind that? - Three charges.
Manslaughter, all three of them, between 1929 and 1939.
Because of botched abortions.
The gals that she performed the abortion on died directly because of her services.
Here's their death certificates.
All right, so what was the outcomes of these trials? All three of those charges were thrown out of court due to a lack of evidence.
On the phone, you had mentioned that this story had a dark turn to it.
I mean, how much darker could it get? Pretty dark.
Some of these young mothers, not wanting an abortion, wanting to go full-term, were told right after they had given birth that the babies had died when they actually hadn't.
They would be taken out the back door.
In some cases, with the placenta still attached.
And Gertie would turn around and sell those babies on the black market.
Going rate was about 500 bucks.
All right, so she's a piece of [bleep.]
for doing this.
Yes, yes.
Out of Butte's beautiful history, this is the black mark.
Why are there so many [bleep.]
dead bodies laying around here? How many? A lot.
Majority men, but there are women, and there are children, okay.
I'm seeing, like, a lot of kids.
Too many kids for one family.
It's almost like a daycare.
And something about these children, like, they didn't have parents.
So, I almost wonder if they were, like, selling these kids? Like, drug dealers and children sellers and pimps.
Oh, my God.
You got a brothel catering to some pretty tough customers, so I got to think, there had to be a couple of homicides in there.
I called the Butte sheriff who did some digging, and he came up with two suspicious deaths that may help my case.
Sheriff, why did you want to meet here? Well, this is the old city jail where anybody who was arrested in the area, the red-light district, would likely have come had they been arrested.
Okay, now, you mentioned on the phone, there were two suspicious deaths connected to the Dumas.
Let's start with the first one.
Elinor Knott.
She was the madame at the Dumas Brothel from 1950 to 1955 when she passed away.
Okay.
Her body was found on the second floor of the Dumas Brothel.
I have Elinor's death certificate right here.
It lists coronary occlusion as the cause of her death.
Her heart disease had progressed to where it was fatal.
She was young, though, 42.
She is relatively young to have that kind of heart disease.
So, why was that suspicious, do you think? There was a woman named Bonita Farren who took over as the madame of the Dumas Brothel after Elinor Knott passed away.
And there was a rumor that Bonita may have had something to do with Elinor Knott's death so she could take over the brothel.
Now, you mentioned there was a second suspicious death.
What was that? Yeah, the second death is Bonita Farren's husband, John Farren.
I have John Farren's death certificate right here.
Cerebral hemorrhage.
Yeah, it appears that he had fallen down the stairs, and he was discovered at the bottom of a staircase near the rear of the brothel.
Yeah, I know that staircase pretty well.
That's quite a flight of stairs.
The doctor who signed the death certificate believed that alcohol was a contributing factor to his death.
And it kind of connected in a way, too, because Yeah, the link being Bonita Farren, yes.
Okay.
During my walk, I encountered a very sexual woman.
I'm meeting with a sketch artist to describe what I saw her doing to a living male.
A male was laying in the bed, and a female was caressing the male's chest.
She had big brown eyes and delicate facial features.
And she was kind of standing beside the bed looking down and touching him.
Is that what you saw? Yes, that's what I saw.
Now that Amy and I have completed our investigations, we're ready to reveal our findings to each other and our clients for the first time.
Amy, I'd like you to meet Michael and Travis.
Now, these guys are partners in life and in business.
They bought this historic building about three years ago, but they feel like something doesn't want them here.
But they're not the ones that called us in.
This is Ginny.
That's Michael's best friend.
She also works here as a tour guide.
She believes that whatever's here is changing Michael, and she's worried that he might be in danger.
So, now that Amy knows a little bit about what's going on with you guys, I'm gonna ask her to describe her walk for us.
When I first walked in the door, I heard a male say, "Get out of here.
" And I heard a woman call out, "whore".
I immediately got that there was a lot of alcohol, and then somebody was talking about specific drug usage here.
Opium, hash, marijuana, and cocaine.
Well, let me tell you a little bit about the building.
We're smack in the middle of what used to be Butte's red-light district.
This building operated as a brothel from 1890 to 1982.
Oh.
And there were competing brothels all around this area.
I managed to track down a couple of photos from what used to be behind this building here.
Now, as you can imagine, the conditions for these women had to be really bad, and a lot of them turned to alcohol and drugs, including opium.
Now, back in '82, the Dumas Brothel was shut down and neglected for a long time.
Michael stepped in, and he saved it.
Now, he's been renovating it and turning it into an historical museum.
Sometimes I think it's crazy.
We've put ourselves into debt to try and restore it.
I don't know why.
I don't know what drew me.
I fell in love with it when I entered it.
I felt that if someone didn't step up to the plate to take it over, it would cease to exist.
Interesting.
The basement was extremely active.
Going down there, it's like shocking.
The majority of the people I saw down there were men.
They seemed to have interesting sexual proclivities.
They were all, like, doing dirty business and stuff like that.
I heard somebody talking about mining.
And then I was getting punched.
Punched in the stomach.
It's interesting you talk about the basement.
Nobody likes the basement at all.
And Ginny, tell her how you feel like when you're down there, it's like a terrible feeling for you.
All the time, I feel like I'm being watched.
In fact, I was chased up the stairs, and I don't know what I was being chased by.
Well, let me explain why you might have seen some of those things in the basement.
Each level of the Dumas catered to a different clientele.
Top floor was for the high echelon.
The main floor was, you know, middle-class-type guys.
But the basement was for the miners.
Now, it was a nasty place.
From what I was told, from an expert, they would service up to maybe 50 guys a day.
The other thing that I saw down there was a lot of children.
They weren't particularly cared for, so I'm thinking they didn't have parents.
Then I ran into this guy.
He was definitely like a pimp and a drug runner, and I was feeling like maybe he also sold the children.
That's interesting.
From the 1920s through the 1950s, a woman named Gertie Pitkanen and her husband, Gustavus, ran what they called a maternity clinic a couple blocks from here.
What she really ran was an abortion clinic.
Now, if a prostitute got pregnant here at the Dumas, you know, they had two choices.
Either get an abortion, or you're out of work.
Okay.
Now, Gertie Pitkanen was performing these back-alley abortions, and they were very dangerous.
Over a 10-year period, she wound up getting charged three different times for manslaughter.
I actually was able to get a hold of the death certificates here of three young ladies who died as a result of botched abortions.
Oh, my goodness.
But she was never convicted.
Now, you mentioned something about selling kids.
Yes.
Gertie, on at least 14 documented occasions, was telling mothers that their babies were stillborn and then taking those babies that were alive and selling them for $500 on the black market.
Wow.
They're known as Gertie's babies.
I met two women in here.
The first one I encountered in one of the bedrooms, and she creeped me out because of the way that she looked.
Her skin looks like tree bark.
Her arms were really long but, like, twisted, and her fingers looked like tree roots.
So, it was very bizarre.
She is able to move objects and open and close doors.
She's the one who can do little things like that.
Talking about moving objects.
They had a guy named Ron that's a brick mason working down there.
Ginny, tell 'em how his stuff goes missing.
Stuff moves on its own down there.
He'll lay it down, and he'll go he know he put it there.
And he'll go back to get it, and it's gone.
It usually takes about twice as long to do any work in here because you spend half the time just trying to find the materials or the tools because as soon as you turn your back, they're gone.
That's, like up her alley, so.
Wow.
So, I met another lady.
I guess you could call her, like, a nymphomaniac.
Considering where we are, I'm not shocked.
She's interested in younger, muscular men, and she likes to touch people inappropriately and sexually.
I did have a sketch done of her.
She was trying to seduce me.
It was shortly after we bought the building, and I was cleaning up all the cobwebs.
All of a sudden, I felt this really warm hand on my shoulder.
Along with it, there was really warm, gentle breath across my neck.
So, do you think she was a prostitute here? Yeah, and I think she very much enjoyed her job.
I mean, is it a threat to them? Well, I think that being molested in the middle of the night would maybe be a problem.
So, what else is going on? I met this guy.
He is a very dominant personality here, and he concerns me a great deal.
He was not happy that I was here.
He's a very, very negative person.
People might see him as an elderly man, or they see, like, a fog, gray or a black fog.
I kept referring to him as the landowner guy.
He goes everywhere, but he does like to hang out in the basement.
He is very physical.
If he doesn't like you, he'll do things like pushing, shoving, pinching.
If he really doesn't like somebody, he'll become even more violent.
He'll actually, like, try to smother people.
And when he does that, it's because he wants to kill them.
Now, you got shoved in the face.
Tell Amy what happened.
Ginny and myself came in one night and walked down the hall there, and it just full force, fwoof, and it knocked me backward.
Ginny was right behind me, and I think she said, "What the [bleep.]
was that?" Now, she goes home with bruises all the time.
I do go home with bruises once in a while, yes, I do.
And it's other people some of the people on the tours.
Interesting.
Now, you mentioned something about a mist, a shadow? Now, you guys reported.
We see mists in here, you bet.
Do you feel threatened sometimes by these incidents? Yes.
There's been a few times I've left.
Do you have any idea who this guy might have been in life? Well, when he was alive, he was very, very greedy.
I got that he was the boss.
Hmm.
I think that he was the first owner.
I think he possibly had something to do with the building of this place.
There was a lot of business, which he benefited greatly from.
And I got the years 1900 and All right, so let me tell you about the original owner and see if we have a match.
His name was Joseph Nadeau, and he built this building as a brothel in 1890.
Oh! And he opened up until he died in 1925.
The guy was a shrewd businessman.
He didn't own just this brothel.
He owned several brothels in the neighborhood.
Now, I got a photo of him.
Okay.
This is very interesting.
When you guys first arrived, I was looking at you.
And I was, like, looks really familiar.
What do you think about him? It makes me shake.
It makes my heart pound, and it makes my gut hurt.
But do you feel like any kind of, I don't know, attachment? I think that I have a duty here to Fulfill something, I don't know what it is.
I bought it the first day I set foot in there.
'Cause you already owned it.
What the hell are you talking about? You're this person.
So, you're telling me that Michael is Joseph Nadeau.
Do you feel, like, any kind of, I don't know, attachment? I think that I have a duty here to fulfill something, I don't know what it is.
I bought it the first day I set foot in there.
'Cause you already owned it.
What the hell are you talking about? You're this person.
So, you're telling me that Michael is Joseph Nadeau.
Yes.
Was he reincarnated? Yes.
Whoa.
From the moment I laid eyes on Michael, I knew there was something very familiar about him, and when he talked about his obsession with the brothel, I got even more suspicious.
But when I saw the picture of the original owner, it all clicked.
It looks like an older version of Michael.
Yeah, especially around the eyes.
He looks like my grandfather.
I felt something, though.
I knew.
I knew it, but I don't want to feel like some deceased person, some spirit, some entity saying, "You need to do my bidding.
" It's not like you're doing anybody's bidding.
This is you.
This is blowing me away.
I mean, this is one of these cases I'm gonna walk away from, and it's gonna be in the back of my head for a long time.
I'm, like, nervous for you.
I'm scared for you.
I'm in awe of this.
I'm I'm, like, speechless.
My question to you is, though, do you believe you're this guy? Yes.
How else do you explain any of it? Needless to say, this is probably one of the most unusual cases that we've worked on.
Now we got to answer the big question.
Is it safe for you to stay here? According to Amy, for the second time, and fix this place up? So for that answer, I'm gonna turn it over to Amy and see what she has to say.
Right now, the situation is not particularly healthy.
Your soul isn't complete because you're continuing a life that you had before.
What I think is going on is that sometimes, when people die, the soul in its entirety doesn't completely move on.
So it'll shatter sometimes.
When Joseph died, his soul split.
One piece remained here in the form of the old man, and the other became you.
So, what I want you to do is to find a person who is a reiki master who has the ability to collect souls.
And what she does is absorb them into herself, and then she releases them.
So, your former self that's here, she needs to collect that soul, then needs to move that soul on.
Okay.
One thing I'm a little confused about.
If she takes Nadeau with her, is he still reincarnated Joe Nadeau? Yes, but once he moves on, you may not have an interest anymore in this place and completely relinquish that fixation.
Now, what about the tree lady and the nympho? What about those people? The reiki master will be able to move them on, as well.
Okay.
This stuff is fascinating when you think about it.
All the pieces, you know, to this fit together.
Definitely.
I feel like a whole weight has It's like I felt when I walked in here the first time, how it took my breath away.
I feel like I can breathe again.
It's gonna be quite the journey.
***
He's a slapper, a pincher, a hitter.
Oh, my God.
Out of Butte's beautiful history, this is the black mark.
What is wrong with this [bleep.]
place? I think there is something very bad here.
There's problems, big problems.
A bunch of perverted freaks.
There's a dark presence.
My name is Amy Allan.
These things, they're freaking out.
They're from hell.
I see dead people.
They were being hunted.
I speak to dead people.
They were setting people on fire, burning them alive.
And they speak to me.
Her neck got broken.
But there's only one way to know if my findings are real.
I hear a gunshot.
I rely on my partner.
I'm Steve Di Schiavi.
I'm a retired New York City homicide detective.
Something's not right here.
And I know every person, every house has secrets.
It's not safe here.
It's my job to reveal them.
Are any of them buried on the property? They're all buried here.
But Steve and I never speak We never communicate during an investigation.
Until the very end I can't do it no more.
When we uncover if it's safe for you to stay Holy [bleep.]
look at this.
Or time to get out.
It does not have a happy ending.
Something kills people here.
I'm out here in Butte.
It's an old mining town in southwest Montana.
I got a call from a woman named Ginny who sounded real shaken up.
A close friend brought an old brothel called the Dumas and restored it into a museum.
Now, she works there, and she says that paranormal activity has gotten violent and out of control.
She doesn't think it's safe to be there, but she says her friend has become obsessed and won't leave.
I hope Amy and I can help her out.
Before Amy arrives, I clear the area of anything that might influence her findings.
This is a large space with a lot of artwork and historical items that need to be removed.
When I'm finished, the location will be ready for tonight's walk.
Oh, boy.
I walked in the door, and I heard, "Get her out of here.
" And the one who said, "Get her out of here," is a male.
I feel like he was an owner.
He looks like he's from pretty far back, but his presence is very here.
I think he kind of had his hand in a lot of illegal things, like I do see prostitutes around him.
I'm hearing "whore".
So, Ginny, I'm glad I'm here.
When we spoke on the phone, you sounded really concerned for your friend, Michael.
Yes, Michael is my best friend, and he bought this brothel about three years ago.
And he's become pretty obsessed with the place.
Okay.
Now, he runs it as a museum, you mentioned? Yes.
It's a piece of Butte's history.
It was built in 1890 as a brothel.
Okay.
It ran for 92 years illegally, and the sheriff shut it down in 1982.
Wow, okay.
So, it ran for a long time.
It did.
They were gonna knock this down.
So, he saved it from the wrecking ball.
He did.
Okay, now, what is it that you do here? I do history tours.
Okay.
Now, everybody's having paranormal experiences here, - or is it just Michael? - Everybody.
People are hearing footsteps, seeing apparitions, and now things are getting violent.
Michael's had some experiences here that I'm really concerned about.
He has been pushed by something he cannot see.
His whole demeanor changes being in here.
He gets all OCD.
He just, like, gets really uptight about things in here.
You get him outside those doors, he's a whole different guy.
It's a concern.
It's a concern.
Wow.
What do you think is going on in this place? I think there's some angry spirits in here, possibly demonic, and I don't think it likes Michael.
Okay.
There are quite a few dead people here.
They are very physical towards the living.
Beating them, molesting them, um influencing them.
How would they be influenced? I think it might change their behaviors and thought process, and they might become, you know, depressed, anxious.
Do weird [bleep.]
that they don't normally do.
You know, that would be really bad.
This place is obviously creepy, but why'd you bring me down here? Because I've had a few scary experiences down here.
Okay, like what? I'll be doing a tour with some folks, and I see shadows.
They're all over down here.
You can see out of your peripheral vision, they just run by you really, really fast.
Are you sure it's not people on the tour playing games with the lights or something? No, it's happened when I've been down here by myself.
Okay.
So, anything else? I've had scratching and bruising when I've left here from my tours.
One night, I literally had a scratch down the middle of my back.
Not one, not two, but three down the middle of my back, and they burned.
I've had bruises on my arms that look like fingerprints, and I have no idea where they came from.
I know you called us for Michael, but I think you need help just as bad as he does.
I think there is something very bad here.
I don't know what it is.
Hopefully, Amy can help us with that.
Okay.
The dead here are very capable of interacting with the living.
It's, like, very direct.
Oh, there's so much.
Oh, my gosh.
The land owner guy, he likes to keep people out of here.
Here he smothers the [bleep.]
out of people.
God, I feel like I'm being punched in the stomach.
It's horrible, like, it's awful.
So, sure as [bleep.]
, if people are down here, there's problems.
Big problems.
It's good to finally meet you.
I've spoken with Ginny.
She's very concerned about you.
She used the word "obsessed" to describe how you feel about this place.
- Would you agree with that? - Yeah.
Sometimes, it's kind of like a time warp.
I might come here and plan to be here until midnight, and then it's 5:00 A.
M.
I mean, maybe it's me, I don't know, but you seem a little bit on edge to me.
If I met you at a bar down the block, do you think your demeanor would be different? Yeah, I feel very anxious sometimes in here.
I don't know what it is.
What does this building mean to you? It's such an important landmark place.
It needs to be saved.
I don't look at it as being an owner.
To me, it's more of kind of stewardship.
It doesn't belong to me, as much as it belongs to Montana and Butte.
So, do you feel that you have an obligation to this building? Mm-hmm.
- You do? - Yeah.
That's interesting.
Ginny mentioned that it's gotten pretty violent.
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
Here and to you in particular.
What happened? She and I were in here one night working.
I was pushed kind of like a more in the face, it felt like, but it pushed me pretty good.
She was right behind me, and she just said, "What the [bleep.]
was that?" And then I think nine out of ten people would have packed up and [bleep.]
got out of here, put it up for sale, to be honest with you.
Yeah, yeah.
Why don't you just give this place up? I'm very attached to it.
Unexplainably.
The land owner is mean.
He's a slapper, a pincher, a hitter.
If somebody he doesn't like is around, he'll do it to them.
Do you know if people might see this guy? I think that they see a dark mist.
Oh, boy.
This is not good.
This place is not healthy for living people.
Now, Ginny called us in 'cause she was worried about Michael.
He's your partner.
How long you two guys been together? We've been together for eight years.
Okay, and you guys owned this place for three.
Yes.
So you know him pretty well.
How concerned are you for Mike? I do have a pretty strong concern for him.
His mood swings are really bad since we bought it.
I've noticed he's more obsessive-compulsive, agitated.
A lot of times, that anger gets taken out on me.
Wow.
What do they say, you take out stuff on the ones you love? Yeah.
I've talked to Ginny.
I've talked to Michael.
People are having experiences here.
Now, what about yourself? I was in one of the rooms, and all of a sudden, I felt this really warm hand on my shoulder.
And then moments after I felt the hand, along with the hand, there was this really warm breath going across my neck.
Would you say it was a man or a woman's hand that touched you? I would definitely say it was a woman's.
It was a lot more intimate, almost sensual in a way.
You mean like a woman coming onto you? Yeah.
There's a female who's very sexual.
What does she do? She's hands-on.
I think she likes younger men.
If she finds somebody attractive, she'll do stuff.
She's physical that way.
Travis, let me ask you a question about the tours you do here.
Have you had any complaints about anything? From the customers that have come through? I've heard a wide variety of different things.
People getting pinched, their hair tugged repeatedly.
I've even seen people go running out the door.
They get nauseated.
I've even seen a couple of them, you know, throw up.
Now, obviously, you believe that there's something supernatural here.
Oh, without a doubt.
I think there's numerous spirits here.
Oh, oh.
Oh, boy.
I don't like I don't like upstairs.
Lots of anxiety up here.
Lots of anxiety, lots of stress.
Like, it's it's kind of making me sick.
It's like making my stomach upset.
I feel nauseous.
Ooh.
My goodness.
Oh, my.
Really, really, really bad.
Mm.
So, Ron, I understand that you've done some work in the building restoring it.
- Yes.
- Okay.
Quite a bit.
Have you had any experiences that you can't explain? When I was working here, I got the sense that I was gonna get killed.
An evil presence, like, telling me get out of here.
Really? Has anything else happened to you? My tools would end up missing, and then I started getting really scared.
The hair on the back of my neck come up.
And nobody's here messing with you? No.
And you still come down here.
I won't come down no more by myself.
- You don't? - Nope.
Now, Ron, you don't strike me as the type of guy that scares too easy.
Not too easy.
I was a boxer and hard brick layer, a concrete man.
I'm not scared of much.
But this place seems to spook you out.
Yes, it's it's dangerous down here.
I honestly believe that.
Okay.
And then there's another lady.
She likes to torture people, but she is one to move things.
Open and close doors, move objects, [bleep.]
like that.
Can you describe her? Her skin is like tree bark, and her arms are twisted like the roots of a tree.
But it's so weird how each of these dead people has very specific, physical things that they do with the living.
It's almost like they've had a dialogue, and they're, like, "Well, I do this, so don't you dare.
" What would all this mean for the living here? They would be, you know, toys for the dead people.
Look, it doesn't take a homicide detective to figure out what my first move is here, especially since Michael and Travis's building used to be a brothel.
I'm heading back to the Dumas to meet with a local historian who said life there was everything you would expect and worse.
Let's start from the beginning.
Who built this building and when? The building was actually built by Arthur and Joseph Nadeau.
This is a photograph of Joseph.
The brothers built this building in 1890, and they also built other red-light properties here in the district.
So, these guys were pretty smart businessmen.
They were very well-educated brothers, yes, and they were very wealthy.
Okay.
But the Nadeau brothers apparently kind of separated.
We really don't know why.
And Joseph stayed around and ran the business.
Okay.
So, now, what about Joseph? Whatever happened to him? Well, Joseph died in 1925 here in Butte.
Okay, now, how old was Joe when he died? He was 77.
This guy, he's gonna cause some [bleep.]
problems.
I've seen a lot of dead people in this place, but my biggest concern is the land owner who attacks the living, and I'm trying to get a look into who he was in life.
He's super negative and extremely greedy.
Like, disgustingly greedy.
Do you know what his connection here might be? I think he might have owned the land and potentially built this building.
Can you describe him more? He's very well educated and wealthy.
White hair, pal skin, and I heard 1900 and 1901 for him.
There was a lot of movement in here, a lot of traffic, which benefited him with what he did.
He is really nasty.
The Nadeau brothers opened this place as a very high-end brothel.
Okay.
Very exclusive clients would come here and spend as much as $1,000 a night on entertainment.
So, the girls who worked here were pretty high-end? They were very, very high-end girls.
They were supposedly very, very beautiful.
You know, Ellen, I was down in that basement yesterday, and I got to be honest with you.
It didn't look too high end to me.
Yeah, it wasn't too high end.
You know, here's what happened.
The copper kings left Butte in 1900, and so the business had to adjust.
The upper floor catered to the upper class.
The ground floor catered to more of a business class, and the basement catered to the miners and the laborers.
So, I got to imagine, just looking at that basement, the conditions had to be really bad for these girls.
It probably wasn't a pleasant place to work, and the women charged and maybe would service The mines operated 24 hours a day, and so did the women.
These miners had to be rough customers.
It was a really dangerous undertaking.
There was violence.
There was addiction.
Alcohol, laudanum, opium.
There was the danger of pregnancy.
- It was a dangerous business.
- Right.
- There's no question about that.
- Wow.
Nothing is legitimate.
They all have perversions.
They're dirty, and they're angry, so a bunch of perverted freaks.
I feel like there was a lot of drugs and alcohol.
Like opium, like hash, like marijuana, cocaine.
I see a lot of, like, people laying down here.
Like, just laying around.
How many? A lot.
I did hear mining.
Are you [bleep.]
kidding me? I'm trying not to be negative, but it's kind of impossible here because this is not a good place.
This is a cycle.
This is a cycle.
What? Anybody who rents maybe or buys this place is not on the up-and-up.
I'm, like, what is wrong with this [bleep.]
place? If you need us to investigate unexplained activity in your home, go to the "Dead Files" page at travelchannel.
com.
Click on "Help me, Dead Files!" to submit your story, and we'll help if we can.
So far, I've got clients who've been physically assaulted on a property that used to be ground zero for sex and violence.
But I need to see if there's anything else.
Digging through the archives, I find a woman named Gertrude Pitkanen.
Turns out, she was charged with three counts of manslaughter after performing illegal abortions in Butte's red-light district.
So, I made some calls, and it turns out, it's very likely that prostitutes from the Dumas ended up going to this illegal abortion doctor.
I'm heading over to meet with a local professor who says that this case takes an even darker and more horrifying twist.
So, what can you tell me about this woman? Her name was Gertrude Pitkanen.
Locals called her Gertie.
She ran a back-alley abortion clinic.
Now, would she have ever done abortions at the Dumas? Sure, absolutely.
Ladies that worked at the Dumas Brothel, they got pregnant, they didn't have a lot of options.
If you were pregnant, and you were showing, you were out of business.
But one of their best options was Gertie.
- I read she got charged three times.
- Yes.
- What was the story behind that? - Three charges.
Manslaughter, all three of them, between 1929 and 1939.
Because of botched abortions.
The gals that she performed the abortion on died directly because of her services.
Here's their death certificates.
All right, so what was the outcomes of these trials? All three of those charges were thrown out of court due to a lack of evidence.
On the phone, you had mentioned that this story had a dark turn to it.
I mean, how much darker could it get? Pretty dark.
Some of these young mothers, not wanting an abortion, wanting to go full-term, were told right after they had given birth that the babies had died when they actually hadn't.
They would be taken out the back door.
In some cases, with the placenta still attached.
And Gertie would turn around and sell those babies on the black market.
Going rate was about 500 bucks.
All right, so she's a piece of [bleep.]
for doing this.
Yes, yes.
Out of Butte's beautiful history, this is the black mark.
Why are there so many [bleep.]
dead bodies laying around here? How many? A lot.
Majority men, but there are women, and there are children, okay.
I'm seeing, like, a lot of kids.
Too many kids for one family.
It's almost like a daycare.
And something about these children, like, they didn't have parents.
So, I almost wonder if they were, like, selling these kids? Like, drug dealers and children sellers and pimps.
Oh, my God.
You got a brothel catering to some pretty tough customers, so I got to think, there had to be a couple of homicides in there.
I called the Butte sheriff who did some digging, and he came up with two suspicious deaths that may help my case.
Sheriff, why did you want to meet here? Well, this is the old city jail where anybody who was arrested in the area, the red-light district, would likely have come had they been arrested.
Okay, now, you mentioned on the phone, there were two suspicious deaths connected to the Dumas.
Let's start with the first one.
Elinor Knott.
She was the madame at the Dumas Brothel from 1950 to 1955 when she passed away.
Okay.
Her body was found on the second floor of the Dumas Brothel.
I have Elinor's death certificate right here.
It lists coronary occlusion as the cause of her death.
Her heart disease had progressed to where it was fatal.
She was young, though, 42.
She is relatively young to have that kind of heart disease.
So, why was that suspicious, do you think? There was a woman named Bonita Farren who took over as the madame of the Dumas Brothel after Elinor Knott passed away.
And there was a rumor that Bonita may have had something to do with Elinor Knott's death so she could take over the brothel.
Now, you mentioned there was a second suspicious death.
What was that? Yeah, the second death is Bonita Farren's husband, John Farren.
I have John Farren's death certificate right here.
Cerebral hemorrhage.
Yeah, it appears that he had fallen down the stairs, and he was discovered at the bottom of a staircase near the rear of the brothel.
Yeah, I know that staircase pretty well.
That's quite a flight of stairs.
The doctor who signed the death certificate believed that alcohol was a contributing factor to his death.
And it kind of connected in a way, too, because Yeah, the link being Bonita Farren, yes.
Okay.
During my walk, I encountered a very sexual woman.
I'm meeting with a sketch artist to describe what I saw her doing to a living male.
A male was laying in the bed, and a female was caressing the male's chest.
She had big brown eyes and delicate facial features.
And she was kind of standing beside the bed looking down and touching him.
Is that what you saw? Yes, that's what I saw.
Now that Amy and I have completed our investigations, we're ready to reveal our findings to each other and our clients for the first time.
Amy, I'd like you to meet Michael and Travis.
Now, these guys are partners in life and in business.
They bought this historic building about three years ago, but they feel like something doesn't want them here.
But they're not the ones that called us in.
This is Ginny.
That's Michael's best friend.
She also works here as a tour guide.
She believes that whatever's here is changing Michael, and she's worried that he might be in danger.
So, now that Amy knows a little bit about what's going on with you guys, I'm gonna ask her to describe her walk for us.
When I first walked in the door, I heard a male say, "Get out of here.
" And I heard a woman call out, "whore".
I immediately got that there was a lot of alcohol, and then somebody was talking about specific drug usage here.
Opium, hash, marijuana, and cocaine.
Well, let me tell you a little bit about the building.
We're smack in the middle of what used to be Butte's red-light district.
This building operated as a brothel from 1890 to 1982.
Oh.
And there were competing brothels all around this area.
I managed to track down a couple of photos from what used to be behind this building here.
Now, as you can imagine, the conditions for these women had to be really bad, and a lot of them turned to alcohol and drugs, including opium.
Now, back in '82, the Dumas Brothel was shut down and neglected for a long time.
Michael stepped in, and he saved it.
Now, he's been renovating it and turning it into an historical museum.
Sometimes I think it's crazy.
We've put ourselves into debt to try and restore it.
I don't know why.
I don't know what drew me.
I fell in love with it when I entered it.
I felt that if someone didn't step up to the plate to take it over, it would cease to exist.
Interesting.
The basement was extremely active.
Going down there, it's like shocking.
The majority of the people I saw down there were men.
They seemed to have interesting sexual proclivities.
They were all, like, doing dirty business and stuff like that.
I heard somebody talking about mining.
And then I was getting punched.
Punched in the stomach.
It's interesting you talk about the basement.
Nobody likes the basement at all.
And Ginny, tell her how you feel like when you're down there, it's like a terrible feeling for you.
All the time, I feel like I'm being watched.
In fact, I was chased up the stairs, and I don't know what I was being chased by.
Well, let me explain why you might have seen some of those things in the basement.
Each level of the Dumas catered to a different clientele.
Top floor was for the high echelon.
The main floor was, you know, middle-class-type guys.
But the basement was for the miners.
Now, it was a nasty place.
From what I was told, from an expert, they would service up to maybe 50 guys a day.
The other thing that I saw down there was a lot of children.
They weren't particularly cared for, so I'm thinking they didn't have parents.
Then I ran into this guy.
He was definitely like a pimp and a drug runner, and I was feeling like maybe he also sold the children.
That's interesting.
From the 1920s through the 1950s, a woman named Gertie Pitkanen and her husband, Gustavus, ran what they called a maternity clinic a couple blocks from here.
What she really ran was an abortion clinic.
Now, if a prostitute got pregnant here at the Dumas, you know, they had two choices.
Either get an abortion, or you're out of work.
Okay.
Now, Gertie Pitkanen was performing these back-alley abortions, and they were very dangerous.
Over a 10-year period, she wound up getting charged three different times for manslaughter.
I actually was able to get a hold of the death certificates here of three young ladies who died as a result of botched abortions.
Oh, my goodness.
But she was never convicted.
Now, you mentioned something about selling kids.
Yes.
Gertie, on at least 14 documented occasions, was telling mothers that their babies were stillborn and then taking those babies that were alive and selling them for $500 on the black market.
Wow.
They're known as Gertie's babies.
I met two women in here.
The first one I encountered in one of the bedrooms, and she creeped me out because of the way that she looked.
Her skin looks like tree bark.
Her arms were really long but, like, twisted, and her fingers looked like tree roots.
So, it was very bizarre.
She is able to move objects and open and close doors.
She's the one who can do little things like that.
Talking about moving objects.
They had a guy named Ron that's a brick mason working down there.
Ginny, tell 'em how his stuff goes missing.
Stuff moves on its own down there.
He'll lay it down, and he'll go he know he put it there.
And he'll go back to get it, and it's gone.
It usually takes about twice as long to do any work in here because you spend half the time just trying to find the materials or the tools because as soon as you turn your back, they're gone.
That's, like up her alley, so.
Wow.
So, I met another lady.
I guess you could call her, like, a nymphomaniac.
Considering where we are, I'm not shocked.
She's interested in younger, muscular men, and she likes to touch people inappropriately and sexually.
I did have a sketch done of her.
She was trying to seduce me.
It was shortly after we bought the building, and I was cleaning up all the cobwebs.
All of a sudden, I felt this really warm hand on my shoulder.
Along with it, there was really warm, gentle breath across my neck.
So, do you think she was a prostitute here? Yeah, and I think she very much enjoyed her job.
I mean, is it a threat to them? Well, I think that being molested in the middle of the night would maybe be a problem.
So, what else is going on? I met this guy.
He is a very dominant personality here, and he concerns me a great deal.
He was not happy that I was here.
He's a very, very negative person.
People might see him as an elderly man, or they see, like, a fog, gray or a black fog.
I kept referring to him as the landowner guy.
He goes everywhere, but he does like to hang out in the basement.
He is very physical.
If he doesn't like you, he'll do things like pushing, shoving, pinching.
If he really doesn't like somebody, he'll become even more violent.
He'll actually, like, try to smother people.
And when he does that, it's because he wants to kill them.
Now, you got shoved in the face.
Tell Amy what happened.
Ginny and myself came in one night and walked down the hall there, and it just full force, fwoof, and it knocked me backward.
Ginny was right behind me, and I think she said, "What the [bleep.]
was that?" Now, she goes home with bruises all the time.
I do go home with bruises once in a while, yes, I do.
And it's other people some of the people on the tours.
Interesting.
Now, you mentioned something about a mist, a shadow? Now, you guys reported.
We see mists in here, you bet.
Do you feel threatened sometimes by these incidents? Yes.
There's been a few times I've left.
Do you have any idea who this guy might have been in life? Well, when he was alive, he was very, very greedy.
I got that he was the boss.
Hmm.
I think that he was the first owner.
I think he possibly had something to do with the building of this place.
There was a lot of business, which he benefited greatly from.
And I got the years 1900 and All right, so let me tell you about the original owner and see if we have a match.
His name was Joseph Nadeau, and he built this building as a brothel in 1890.
Oh! And he opened up until he died in 1925.
The guy was a shrewd businessman.
He didn't own just this brothel.
He owned several brothels in the neighborhood.
Now, I got a photo of him.
Okay.
This is very interesting.
When you guys first arrived, I was looking at you.
And I was, like, looks really familiar.
What do you think about him? It makes me shake.
It makes my heart pound, and it makes my gut hurt.
But do you feel like any kind of, I don't know, attachment? I think that I have a duty here to Fulfill something, I don't know what it is.
I bought it the first day I set foot in there.
'Cause you already owned it.
What the hell are you talking about? You're this person.
So, you're telling me that Michael is Joseph Nadeau.
Do you feel, like, any kind of, I don't know, attachment? I think that I have a duty here to fulfill something, I don't know what it is.
I bought it the first day I set foot in there.
'Cause you already owned it.
What the hell are you talking about? You're this person.
So, you're telling me that Michael is Joseph Nadeau.
Yes.
Was he reincarnated? Yes.
Whoa.
From the moment I laid eyes on Michael, I knew there was something very familiar about him, and when he talked about his obsession with the brothel, I got even more suspicious.
But when I saw the picture of the original owner, it all clicked.
It looks like an older version of Michael.
Yeah, especially around the eyes.
He looks like my grandfather.
I felt something, though.
I knew.
I knew it, but I don't want to feel like some deceased person, some spirit, some entity saying, "You need to do my bidding.
" It's not like you're doing anybody's bidding.
This is you.
This is blowing me away.
I mean, this is one of these cases I'm gonna walk away from, and it's gonna be in the back of my head for a long time.
I'm, like, nervous for you.
I'm scared for you.
I'm in awe of this.
I'm I'm, like, speechless.
My question to you is, though, do you believe you're this guy? Yes.
How else do you explain any of it? Needless to say, this is probably one of the most unusual cases that we've worked on.
Now we got to answer the big question.
Is it safe for you to stay here? According to Amy, for the second time, and fix this place up? So for that answer, I'm gonna turn it over to Amy and see what she has to say.
Right now, the situation is not particularly healthy.
Your soul isn't complete because you're continuing a life that you had before.
What I think is going on is that sometimes, when people die, the soul in its entirety doesn't completely move on.
So it'll shatter sometimes.
When Joseph died, his soul split.
One piece remained here in the form of the old man, and the other became you.
So, what I want you to do is to find a person who is a reiki master who has the ability to collect souls.
And what she does is absorb them into herself, and then she releases them.
So, your former self that's here, she needs to collect that soul, then needs to move that soul on.
Okay.
One thing I'm a little confused about.
If she takes Nadeau with her, is he still reincarnated Joe Nadeau? Yes, but once he moves on, you may not have an interest anymore in this place and completely relinquish that fixation.
Now, what about the tree lady and the nympho? What about those people? The reiki master will be able to move them on, as well.
Okay.
This stuff is fascinating when you think about it.
All the pieces, you know, to this fit together.
Definitely.
I feel like a whole weight has It's like I felt when I walked in here the first time, how it took my breath away.
I feel like I can breathe again.
It's gonna be quite the journey.
***